Gym Etiquette - Was I Wrong Here?

[bhank]

Wait if you're the one who broke the bench in the first place and the guy giving you unsolicited advice is the one who tried to fix the bench then yes I think it kinda changes things 😆

Fuck yes that changes things

[Matt]

Good post Van.  I agree re: heavy dumbbells and ROM.

At 41 my hips are a bit fucked up but everything else feels good so far.  I rarely do a set of less than five reps.

MattC trains strongman I believe, he is not a bodybuilder.

Yep!

The distinction in training may be subtle - but it's there.

I feel like it's just not in my nature to train in a refined way - which both bodybuilders and powerlifters do in different ways. Whereas strongman training and competition is basically just - lift thinks up and put things down.

One way or another, after years of training with more than imperfect form, I still have some good numbers.

My strongest static three lifts would have been around 315/405/495 for bench/squat/deadlift, but I'd rather do 450-lb for a few ugly reps or a 550-lb trap bar or equivalent side-handle car deadlift for a few hitched reps with straps than to do a refined powerlifting meet with chalk and a belt with perfect form.

I like the "just complete the damn lift" element of strongman.

It's also interesting to me that some bodybuilders, strongmen, and powerlifters can switch over to one of the other two, but that people tend to be "designed" for one best, and not usually two of them, or all three.

For example, I have a very low density of muscle fiber, and aside from my delts [and maybe triceps], nothing on me grows very well. I have short biceps insertions, high lats, basically no inner quads...I would have never had any success in bodybuilding, even if I did juice.

But for the u-80kg strongman category, I have done well, and - I honestly do think I could be top 10 in the 2022 Canadian u-80kg Nationals.

Basically, I can say - I'm competitive in my weight class. There are plenty of guys who can do 100-lb or 105-lb dumbbells for seated dumbbell press - but among the 176-lb'ers, it's much more rare.

Although maybe I might want to bring up my body weight, just to see how things are, and what I can do at 90kg [~200-lb]. I was a bit heavier for this contest, and found those 250-lb Farmer implements much easier to pick up than when I'm 170:

It's a trade-off...but I think I do my best competitive work as a lightweight, as my pound for pound strength is best there.

I don't and won't claim I'm the strongest guy around - but I am competitive in the light class, and it's also a health choice. Though now that my doctor is saying I should eat more to reverse my hypothyroidism, maybe I'll do a bulk to 200, just to see where the chips fall. 

[Matt]

Fuck yes that changes things

Yes, but I replaced the bench, and...he didn't know it was me who broke it.

I think I did the right thing to replace it, and this was months ago, and like I said - he didn't know.

And it broke from dropping the 110-lb dumbbell when I was doing reps with one-arm CDB presses. It didn't break just from dumbbells sitting on it.

Honestly, if my gym wasn't so cramped, it wouldn't have happened, but it's my fault for going for another rep that I thought I could get, but ended up dropping it.

My bad!

[Cook]

Matt if you do this light test and Anadrol cycle by all means do a log so we can follow your results. I think this would be very interesting.

[bhank]

Yep!

The distinction in training may be subtle - but it's there.

I feel like it's just not in my nature to train in a refined way - which both bodybuilders and powerlifters do in different ways. Whereas strongman training and competition is basically just - lift thinks up and put things down.

One way or another, after years of training with more than imperfect form, I still have some good numbers.

My strongest static three lifts would have been around 314/405/495 for bench/squat/deadlift, but I'd rather do 450-lb for a few ugly reps or a 550-lb trap bar or equivalent side-handle car deadlift for a few hitched reps with straps than to do a refined powerlifting meet with chalk and a belt with perfect form.

I like the "just complete the damn lift" element of strongman competition.

It's also interesting to me that some bodybuilders, strongmen, and powerlifters can switch over to one of the other two, but that people tend to be "designed" for one best, and not usually two of them, or all three.

For example, I have a very low density of muscle fiber, and aside from my delts [and maybe triceps], nothing on me grows very well. I have short biceps insertions, high lats, basically no inner quads...I would have never had any success in bodybuilding, even if I did juice.

But for the u-80kg strongman category, I have done well, and - I honestly do think I could be top 10 in the 2022 Canadian u-80kg Nationals.

Basically, I can say - I'm competitive in my weight class. There are plenty of guys who can do 100-lb or 105-lb dumbbells for seated dumbbell press - but among the 176-lb'ers, it's much more rare.

Although maybe I might want to bring up my body weight, just to see how things are, and what I can do at 90kg [~200-lb]. I was a bit heavier for this contest, and found those 250-lb Farmer implements much easier to pick up then when I'm 170:

It's a trade-off...but I think I do my best competitive work as a lightweight, as my pound for pound strength is best there.

I don't and won't claim I'm the strongest guy around - but I am competitive in the light class, and it's also a health choice. Though now that my doctor is saying I should eat more to reverse my hypothyroidism, maybe I'll do a bulk to 200, just to see where the chips fall. 

Your pound for pound strength is always going to be higher at a lower weight but so fucking what better to be absolutely stronger who wants to be the strongest 150lb dude vs being a strong 250lb dude you say you want to cycle then you say you dont want to gain any weight and be top 10 in the 170lb class next year then you say you are going to bulk to 200 and need more calories to stop your hypothyoridism that you dont have stop the bullshit. If getting to 200 was so easy you would be there now. Stop being a damn chic with an eating disorder and start eating already

[Matt]

Matt if you do this light test and Anadrol cycle by all means do a log so we can follow your results. I think this would be very interesting.

You know, Cook - you are absolutely right.

Maybe if I do that cycle, after things are kicking in enough to show visually at the 4-week mark, I could start the thread - that way I know I'm committed to following through with it, instead of changing my mind a few weeks in.

I think I am owed a proper cycle - I spent all these years barely ever juicing, just due to hypochondria, and now I realize I could have benefitted from doing regular cycles, without pushing it too far, and still have been healthy.

If Van Bilderass could advise me, that would be great. My receptors are very fresh, and I am certain I could make "newbie cycle gains", given how long it's been since I did anything at all, which was never that much.

I think it's a good idea, Cook - it would be an interesting Getbig project, and it would consolidate most of my posts in one thread, which could be a good thing for the board.

We should have more contests on Getbig. 

[Matt]

Your pound for pound strength is always going to be higher at a lower weight but so fucking what better to be absolutely stronger who wants to be the strongest 150lb dude vs being a strong 250lb dude you say you want to cycle then you say you dont want to gain any weight and be top 10 in the 170lb class next year then you say you are going to bulk to 200 and need more calories to stop your hypothyoridism that you dont have stop the bullshit. If getting to 200 was so easy you would be there now. Stop being a damn chic with an eating disorder and start eating already

Well - it was also a health decision to stay within range of an optimal BMI.

Am I not considered to have hypothyroidism?

My TSH is 4.66, and the normal range is 0.32 to 4.00 mIU/L.

[bhank]

Well - it was also a health decision to stay within range of an optimal BMI.

Am I not considered to have hypothyroidism?

My TSH is 4.66, and the normal range is 0.32 to 4.00 mIU/L.

Fuck no you didnt even get a full thyroid panel done you claim to eat 1200 calories a day of course that slows your metabolism my T4 is low again sign of hypothroidism but my TSH is also low as well there are lile half a dozen different thyorid markers 3 or 4 of mine are out of range  you check one and its barely out of range. You are fine. And you are crazy you spend half your time bashing gear on multiple platform for years and the orher half claiming you are going to start gear and blow up. For fuck sake do it already or shut up about it. Your bloodwork is fine and isnt going to be better at 50 the fuck you waiting for a sign from Jesus

[Matt]

Fuck no you didnt even get a full thyroid panel done you claim to eat 1200 calories a day of course that slows your metabolism my T4 is low again sign of hypothroidism but my TSH is also low as well there are lile half a dozen different thyorid markers 3 or 4 of mine are out of range  you check one and its barely out of range. You are fine. And you are crazy you spend half your time bashing gear on multiple platform for years and the orher half claiming you are going to start gear and blow up. For fuck sake do it already or shut up about it. Your bloodwork is fine and isnt going to be better at 50 the fuck you waiting for a sign from Jesus

I eat like a bird.

What are the other thyroid markers? I'll check my other numbers.

My Thyroxine was in the normal range.

[Matt]

Fuck no you didnt even get a full thyroid panel done you claim to eat 1200 calories a day of course that slows your metabolism my T4 is low again sign of hypothroidism but my TSH is also low as well there are lile half a dozen different thyorid markers 3 or 4 of mine are out of range  you check one and its barely out of range. You are fine. And you are crazy you spend half your time bashing gear on multiple platform for years and the orher half claiming you are going to start gear and blow up. For fuck sake do it already or shut up about it. Your bloodwork is fine and isnt going to be better at 50 the fuck you waiting for a sign from Jesus

I fear for my health though.

Not sure if I mentioned that in this page of this thread yet.

[bhank]

I fear for my health though.

Not sure if I mentioned that in this page of this thread yet.

Yes only a million times meanwhile you mentioned your actual T levels were low. You are 40 years old why not just go in TRT with a Dr if you are worried about your health?

[webstar]

Yes only a million times meanwhile you mentioned your actual T levels were low. You are 40 years old why not just go in TRT with a Dr if you are worried about your health?

Can you share your doctors information? This doctor That prescribes 500 mg a.k.a. a full cycle As trt?

[Matt]

Yes only a million times meanwhile you mentioned your actual T levels were low. You are 40 years old why not just go in TRT with a Dr if you are worried about your health?

My doctor is fine with me going on TRT.

However, because my T is still in the normal range, I'm not sure if he is allowed to prescribe it. But I'm not certain about that!

I will be seeing him on Tuesday to get the requisition form for the autoimmune tests...what should I ask him?

FYI, he is a bit of an athlete himself, and always admired me when he was a teen and I was in my twenties doing local lifting comps.

So if he has any leeway to prescribe me test, he would do it.

[bhank]

My doctor is fine with me going on TRT.

However, because my T is still in the normal range, I'm not sure if he is allowed to prescribe it. But I'm not certain about that!

I will be seeing him on Tuesday to get the requisition form for the autoimmune tests...what should I ask him?

FYI, he is a bit of an athlete himself, and always admired me when he was a teen and I was in my twenties doing local lifting comps.

So if he has any leeway to prescribe me test, he would do it.

Normal range is not the same as optimal what were your numbers?

[Matt]

Can you share your doctors information? This doctor That prescribes 500 mg a.k.a. a full cycle As trt?

Doctors prescribe full cycle TRT?

[Matt]

Normal range is not the same as optimal what were your numbers?

Low normal:

[webstar]

Doctors prescribe full cycle TRT?

Hanky’s doctor does.

I’d have to find the post.

But his “doctor” prescribed him 500 mg of test a week plus anavar for a year.

Others can validate this.

He will deny it.

He is prob is seeing Dr Greg Valentino

[bhank]

Low normal:

Where is the next page if converted that is a 516 T score with a 83 free which isnt too bad


https://weighttraining.nz/testosterone_calculator.php#:~:text=The%20conversion%20factors%20are%3A%201%20nmol%2Flitre%20%3D,28.85%20ng%2FdL%201%20pmol%2Flitre%20%3D%200.2885%20pg%2FmL

[Van_Bilderass]

You know what, Van - you should advise me on this. I mean, if you wouldn't mind, and have the time. And you would have my personal assurance [for what that's worth] that I will follow everything to the letter.

It could be a sort of Getbig transformation project, with me under your tutelage! 

It wouldn't be a lot of advising on diet - just give me macro targets to reach every day, and I'll meet those targets.

If after four weeks, I've made gains from my current physique, you will know I'm serious about respecting your coaching.

From what you're saying about Anadrol, three months on it is ok? I was concerned about hepatotoxicity.

I don't drink alcohol, so my liver would not be taxed anywhere else.

My diet is currently good in terms of macros - but I'm so low in calories, that I am actually slightly in ketosis [ketones in your urine mean ketosis, right?].

I have not used any gear since those two 3-week 12.5mg daily Anadrol cycles from 2016.

So I've been fully off everything for 5.5 years now.

This is a photo of me from yesterday:

I would hesitate coaching someone outright. I can give my opinion sure, but directly putting someone on a stack... I don't know, there are always risks however small. I'd hate to be the one who made someone feel like crap. Like the Anadrol, I would say it pretty damn safe for 3 months if you're healthy. Outright liver problems are very rare. If something is considered so toxic that you should only use it for 4 weeks max then IMO it's too toxic to do at all. There is always a small risk so if you are really concerned and paranoid about the liver you might not want to do any orals at all. You can coach yourself, maybe consider some pointers from others that sound reasonable.

You could do a great transformation in 3 months though if you'd do a more substantial cycle than the ones you've done so far. It's like you are still a lifetime natural. By substantial I mean say a test base plus an oral for a few months instead of just an oral for 3 weeks or whatever.

[Matt]

I would hesitate coaching someone outright. I can give my opinion sure, but directly putting someone on a stack... I don't know, there are always risks however small. I'd hate to be the one who made someone feel like crap. Like the Anadrol, I would say it pretty damn safe for 3 months if you're healthy. Outright liver problems are very rare. If something is considered so toxic that you should only use it for 4 weeks max then IMO it's too toxic to do at all. There is always a small risk so if you are really concerned and paranoid about the liver you might not want to do any orals at all. You can coach yourself, maybe consider some pointers from others that sound reasonable.

You could do a great transformation in 3 months though if you'd do a more substantial cycle than the ones you've done so far. It's like you are still a lifetime natural. By substantial I mean say a test base plus an oral for a few months instead of just an oral for 3 weeks or whatever.

Ok - you got it, Van.

So basically do a standard Sustanon cycle - is that 500mg weekly...or 750mg?

And then do 25mg of Anadrol for the first month, and then depending on how things go, I can go 50mg for the next two months?

But you said a 12-week [3-month] cycle is a little on the short side.

How many weeks do you recommend?

In some respects, I am similar to a lifetime natural - I've done 2x 12 week proper cycles [with testosterone as a base] with Dianabol for the first month, and one eight week cycle like that, which I had to cut off after eight weeks, due to coming down with bacterial pneumonia [I'm not sure if the pneumonia and being on-cycle were related].

Here is my full steroid history [all bases are 500mg weekly]:

2004: 12 weeks Sustanon, with 25mg Dianabol daily for four weeks.
2005: 12 weeks of Testosterone Enanthate, same Dbol as above.
2006: 12 weeks of Testosterone Enanthate, same Dbol as above, but with an added 250mg of EQ weekly alongside the test.

^ That 2006 cycle had to be cut off due to coming down with bacterial pneumonia eight weeks in.

The first pictures are the before-before pictures from the first cycle, and after.

Once university ended in April of 2004, I had dropped to 155-lb. I bulked up naturally to 170-lb by June of 2004, and that first test/Dbol cycle got me to 187-lb. What's missing is the second before picture, at 170, immediately before starting the 2004 cycle, from the pre-bulk I did to get to my normal 170-lb weight, which I'm almost always around:

[Matt]

And this notorious photo of me from around the board is from my 2006 cycle, at 193-lb:

[Matt]

This one is from around 2014, when I bulked up to 200-lb, naturally. As you can see, my waist is wider, having bulked up naturally.

Other than the cycles above, I've done maybe 5x 1-month wimpy oral-only cycles from my last real cycle in 2006, through to 2016, and nothing since 2016 [December]. By nothing, I mean nothing - including OTC supplements [even pre-workouts, for that matter].

The second photo is at 170-lb, and roughly how I always look:

[Grape Ape]

Yes, Matt, by all means, slam some anadrol for some contest nobody will remember a week after it's over.

Totally worth it.

[Vince B]

In 1950-1 Reg Park wanted to be the strongest man ever and also have the best physique. He soon learned that he couldn't be both so selected bodybuilding. Matt wants to do well at strongman events. Okay, then do that. However, it is a pipedream to want to get bigger without bulking up. You don't need chemical assistance. You must eat substantially more. You have this goal of lifting heavy weights for so many reps instead of trying to get bigger. From looking at your physique you have well developed shoulders. What often happens with some bodybuilders is that dominant muscles are used for most of the exercises say for upper body. Thus, arms and other parts will not get stimulated enough to grow. Barbells might not isolate the target muscles sufficiently or effectively so you have to use machines to do that. The goal when training each muscle is to get that muscle sore the next day...if possible. Well, if you can get them sore they will and should grow as long as you eat enough and rest sufficiently. Try bodybuilding for a few months and forget about doing less that 10 reps on anything. Work up to your max for 10 reps then do 5 sets with that weight. That should stimulate growth if the exercise is effective. All that cheating is not going to work for guys like you. Forget trying to impress others in the gym or on the internet. Believe you can get your arms an inch bigger, then when you have succeeded you will believe more size is possible. Don't accept that your other body parts can't grow. It is your goals, training style, tools and protocols that are limiting you. Arthur Jones said to forget about demonstrating your strength.

[Matt]

Yes, Matt, by all means, slam some anadrol for some contest nobody will remember a week after it's over.

Totally worth it.

You've never done a cycle just to look better / feel better, Grape?

Honestly, I was in a pit of despair throughout the plandemic joke with the gyms closed, and I've been going 4-5-6 days a week since being legally allowed back.

My lifts are all coming up, though have not matched my previous bests yet [bench = 285, and I have benched 345 before, and 320 in contest, and I can usually bench 325 for 2-4].

But each workout, I'm adding to those lifts, with no plateaus left.

I wanted to get all my strength back and THEN add juice, but...I just want to look good for the summer, and forget about the past miserable two years.

You don't see any value in running a cycle, Grape?