Gym Etiquette - Was I Wrong Here?

[MCWAY]

A few months back i was counting everything and i agree it's a chore. All the different combos of food and amounts, sometimes i was on the can 5 times a day with an arsehole that felt like i was wiping with sandpaper.
I defintely don't look like how I'd like because i don't eat "properly" but atleast i haven't got the constant farts, churning and needing so much time heading to the bog.

Counting your calories can be a chore, which is why guys get "lazy" and eat the same foods every day.

Back in school, I knew I was getting at least 3300 calories per day, because I consume the same four things routinely
 
"Poor Man's Met-Rx" - 6 eggs and 2 cups of nonfat milk: 520 calories, 52 grams protein.

Mega Mass 2000 - 10 oz powder in 2 cups of water. 1100 calories, 55 grams protein.

Two of each yielded at least 3350 calories and 220 grams of protein, depending on the size of the eggs and the flavor of Mega Mass.

The remaining calories came from regular (solid) food.

[bhank]

Counting your calories can be a chore, which is why guys get "lazy" and eat the same foods every day.

Back in school, I knew I was getting at least 3300 calories per day, because I consume the same four things routinely
 
"Poor Man's Met-Rx" - 6 eggs and 2 cups of nonfat milk: 520 calories, 52 grams protein.

Mega Mass 2000 - 10 oz powder in 2 cups of water. 1100 calories, 55 grams protein.

Two of each yielded at least 3350 calories and 220 grams of protein, depending on the size of the eggs and the flavor of Mega Mass.

The remaining calories came from regular (solid) food.

Mcway you do realize what you did to get big in college might not work for you today 20 years later your body is not going to respond the same way. I notice you keep referencing your gains from college and how easy it was shit is different after 40

[Matt]

Counting your calories can be a chore, which is why guys get "lazy" and eat the same foods every day.

Back in school, I knew I was getting at least 3300 calories per day, because I consume the same four things routinely
 
"Poor Man's Met-Rx" - 6 eggs and 2 cups of nonfat milk: 520 calories, 52 grams protein.

Mega Mass 2000 - 10 oz powder in 2 cups of water. 1100 calories, 55 grams protein.

Two of each yielded at least 3350 calories and 220 grams of protein, depending on the size of the eggs and the flavor of Mega Mass.

The remaining calories came from regular (solid) food.

Can raw eggs be eaten without issue?

If yes, I can add those.

By the way, MCWAY - my workouts could not possibly be going better so far. COULD NOT. And that's me being relatively lazy with calories still.

I could eat far more. Hence why I haven't even taken my second 250mg Sustanon shot yet.

I'm just up marginally due to the bit of Anadrol I've added.

It's literally a joke to me when people act like training means jack when it comes to building muscle. Look - I know training matters.

I train hard. You train hard. wes trains hard. The_Coach_is_Back_! trains hard. There are lots of hard trainers here.

Training matters.

But literally off 25mg of Anadrol daily so far, I've had consistently better workouts, from workout to workout, and I don't feel my age [40] WHATSOEVER.

Not one little bit.

This cycle has, this far, done exactly what I hoped for it to do - give me something to be excited about day after day, making 3x the progress I would make otherwise.

MCWAY - I did 315 for TWELVE REPS TODAY. I've NEVER done that without gear before.

So don't DARE tell me that gear isn't a massive variable. It's a MASSIVE VARIABLE.

It matters a lot.

Right now, I'm going to eat two beef patties [16g protein each], and my last scoop of protein in a protein shake, with milk and orange juice.

Now stop projecting your fucking goals on me! I don't want to be a "natural bodybuilder", which has to be the most boring, useless, snail's pace endeavour possible. You could literally put me in a lab and have me do EVERYTHING right, and I already know my progress would be jack shit.

The goal is to have a BIG BOOST for the summer only. To enjoy it while it lasts, then settle around 180 at 15% body fat after. THAT'S IT.

Then I can make weight for the lightweight Strongman season starting next January.

I told you - I don't want to eat and drink 3x as much, and naturally piss and shit 3x as much, to be a natural bodybuilder.

I prefer eating like a bird and training hard, and not having the 24/7 challenge that bodybuilding represents.

I can tell you, I literally can't stand eating. I hate it. And you're suggesting I spend the next year or two to make gains I'll make off one 16-week cycle? WHY THE FUCK WOULD I WANT TO DO THAT?

And the pumps would still suck naturally.

I do need to eat though.

If I can get in 200g protein and 200g carbohydrates by my workout tomorrow, I should post some improvements to my back shot.

The back shot will be my gold standard, which will show my improvements. It's my only good shot.

If I post no progress from my last back by tomorrow, assume I did not eat enough tonight. If I do eat enough, I will have a good shot.

It's back day tomorrow.

[Matt]

Mcway you do realize what you did to get big in college might not work for you today 20 years later your body is not going to respond the same way. I notice you keep referencing your gains from college and how easy it was shit is different after 40

MCWAY is 5'11" and 225 at 25% body fat.

He'd be 170-lb in shape, but even that's a misnomer - as natural cutting is very catabolic, and he'd lose a lot of his muscle if he tried to get cut.

He won't post a picture, because he knows my rear double biceps at 187 looks better than his, even though he is 40-lb heavier than me.

I'm just glad I've been following your advice, B. Hank - and actually got on this stack. I'm not deep into it yet, but I can always extend it.

If I can eat enough, this is going to be a damn good cycle.

No chance I could do any of this naturally. And I've spent years naturally training.

[Flexacon]

Can raw eggs be eaten without issue?

Raw eggs have generally been considered safe to eat here in the UK for a while now. Can't imagine it's any different in Canada. If you're super worried go with the better supermarket eggs.

[Matt]

Raw eggs have generally been considered safe to eat here in the UK for a while now. Can't imagine it's any different in Canada. If you're super worried go with the better supermarket eggs.

Thanks Flexacon.

I'm sad that I've suppressed my appetite so long that eating is the hard part.

For most people, I think training is the issue. Most people eat too much.

I have zero interest in eating the two beef patties I'm cooking up now. Ditto for the protein shake I'm about to make. The potatoes I'm about to eat, I somewhat look forward to.

I don't want to waste a cycle.

Things are still going well, despite my not eating very much.

Just as one example - by my next delta workout, I'll probably do four sets of seated dumbbell presses. I think I'm going to do 75's for sets #2-4, after a warm-up with 25's or something.

If I had to predict, I'll get 15+ reps for each set. That's notably over my normal level. I'd probably ordinarily be doing that with 60's or 65's.

So what else possibly explains that other than the Anadrol?

[keanu]

I still haven't gotten my calories to 1,250 daily

Something is not right here. The only time I have ever had that little appetite is when I'm sick. During the very worst day of the flu or Covid, I just drank orange juice and took vitamins every few hours. A day or two later I was eating around 1500 calories. A week later around 3000. With the amount you train, and the weighs you lift your body would be in a sizable calorie deficit at 1250. No wonder your mental health and mood is all out of wack. Your hormone levels I can only imagine. Many studies show that the prolonged semi-starvation caused by low calories can lead to severe depression, emotional distress, and irritability. Your exact symptoms at the moment.

[MCWAY]

Mcway you do realize what you did to get big in college might not work for you today 20 years later your body is not going to respond the same way. I notice you keep referencing your gains from college and how easy it was shit is different after 40

I know that. That diet was from over 25 years ago, when I was also far more active outside the gym than I am now. I simply used it as an example of how I got my calories into the old tummy, back in the day.

One advantage of getting older is that I don't have to eat nearly as much to maintain my current size or to get larger. Other Getbig brethren have experienced the same thing, as do other bodybuilders.

[MCWAY]

Can raw eggs be eaten without issue?

If yes, I can add those

I don't see an issue. I've done it for decades and the only time I've seen sick is when I didn't wash out my blender properly. Now, I bleach it every time.

By the way, MCWAY - my workouts could not possibly be going better so far. COULD NOT. And that's me being relatively lazy with calories still.

I could eat far more. Hence why I haven't even taken my second 250mg Sustanon shot yet.

I'm just up marginally due to the bit of Anadrol I've added.

It's literally a joke to me when people act like training means jack when it comes to building muscle. Look - I know training matters.

I train hard. You train hard. wes trains hard. The_Coach_is_Back_! trains hard. There are lots of hard trainers here.

Training matters.

But literally off 25mg of Anadrol daily so far, I've had consistently better workouts, from workout to workout, and I don't feel my age [40] WHATSOEVER.

Not one little bit.

This cycle has, this far, done exactly what I hoped for it to do - give me something to be excited about day after day, making 3x the progress I would make otherwise.

MCWAY - I did 315 for TWELVE REPS TODAY. I've NEVER done that without gear before.

So don't DARE tell me that gear isn't a massive variable. It's a MASSIVE VARIABLE.

It matters a lot.

Right now, I'm going to eat two beef patties [16g protein each], and my last scoop of protein in a protein shake, with milk and orange juice.

Now stop projecting your fucking goals on me! I don't want to be a "natural bodybuilder", which has to be the most boring, useless, snail's pace endeavour possible. You could literally put me in a lab and have me do EVERYTHING right, and I already know my progress would be jack shit.

The goal is to have a BIG BOOST for the summer only. To enjoy it while it lasts, then settle around 180 at 15% body fat after. THAT'S IT.

Then I can make weight for the lightweight Strongman season starting next January.

I told you - I don't want to eat and drink 3x as much, and naturally piss and shit 3x as much, to be a natural bodybuilder.

I prefer eating like a bird and training hard, and not having the 24/7 challenge that bodybuilding represents.

I can tell you, I literally can't stand eating. I hate it. And you're suggesting I spend the next year or two to make gains I'll make off one 16-week cycle? WHY THE FUCK WOULD I WANT TO DO THAT?

And the pumps would still suck naturally.

I do need to eat though.

If I can get in 200g protein and 200g carbohydrates by my workout tomorrow, I should post some improvements to my back shot.

The back shot will be my gold standard, which will show my improvements. It's my only good shot.

If I post no progress from my last back by tomorrow, assume I did not eat enough tonight. If I do eat enough, I will have a good shot.

It's back day tomorrow.

Once again, you don't read very well. I never told you to be a "natural bodybuilder", in the first place. And it was YOU who earlier complained about recovery ability. That's why I recommended you back off and train whole body for a while.....UNTIL YOU RECUPERATE and UNTIL you get your beloved steroid stack.

And what exactly is "boring" about natural bodybuilding again? Do the weights sing and dance for you, when you're on steroids or something?

For the umpteenth time, you keep propping up this straw man that training without steroids will make the gains you seek take 18 months. Who told you that foolishness?

And speaking of foolishness, you continue to spout such with this asinine notion that eating high without steroids is somehow a health risk but eating high calories WITH STEROIDS is not. And, if you're eating higher calories, it's more trips to the bathroom.....WHETHER YOU USE STEROIDS OR NOT!! What part of that escapes your grey matter?

[Matt]

I know that. That diet was from over 25 years ago, when I was also far more active outside the gym than I am now. I simply used it as an example of how I got my calories into the old tummy, back in the day.

One advantage of getting older is that I don't have to eat nearly as much to maintain my current size or to get larger. Other Getbig brethren have experienced the same thing, as do other bodybuilders.

I'm compromising my health for 16 weeks, then back to eating like a bird. I utterly hate this shit. No chance I could tolerate this shit for months and months on end.

Changing my training is not the issue. Eating 1,000 calories a day is. But I don't want to change that long-term.

I will go to 1,300 in the long-term.

I don't have the patience for your useless natural training, and I look better than you anyway, so who are you to judge.

Do you look better than this?:

[MCWAY]

MCWAY is 5'11" and 225 at 25% body fat.

He'd be 170-lb in shape, but even that's a misnomer - as natural cutting is very catabolic, and he'd lose a lot of his muscle if he tried to get cut.

He won't post a picture, because he knows my rear double biceps at 187 looks better than his, even though he is 40-lb heavier than me.

I'm just glad I've been following your advice, B. Hank - and actually got on this stack. I'm not deep into it yet, but I can always extend it.

If I can eat enough, this is going to be a damn good cycle.

No chance I could do any of this naturally. And I've spent years naturally training.

Since I'm not competing against anyone, let alone you, I really don't care what your rear-double biceps looks like.

You're the one with the inferiority complex and something to prove to everybody else.

[MCWAY]

I'm compromising my health for 16 weeks, then back to eating like a bird. I utterly hate this shit. No chance I could tolerate this shit for months and months on end.

Changing my training is not the issue. Eating 1,000 calories a day is. But I don't want to change that long-term.

I will go to 1,300 in the long-term.

I don't have the patience for your useless natural training, and I look better than you anyway, so who are you to judge.

Do you look better than this?:

You're doing something you hate (risking your health, in the process) for 3-4 months. WHY? Again, it's your inferiority complex.

You're bragging about looking better than I do, while you need anabolics to be a WHOPPING 185 lbs....which will be gone once your experiment ends (in less than two weeks, if you don't get to 2500 calories per day....by your own words), largely because you're too lazy to keep your diet on point.

[Matt]

Since I'm not competing against anyone, let alone you, I really don't care what your rear-double biceps looks like.

You're the one with the inferiority complex and something to prove to everybody else.

Do you grasp that I miss my ex-girlfriend, whose clit smells like fish?

Do you understand that her vagina was hairy, and apparently she didn't wash it?

It was amazing.

[Matt]

You're doing something you hate (risking your health, in the process) for 3-4 months. WHY? Again, it's your inferiority complex.

You don't seem to grasp how fishy my ex-girlfriend's clit smelled.

I am risking my health after getting basically every possible health test Canada will allow without me going on massively long wait lists, for tests which appear to be fundamentally unnecessary, given my results thus far.

I had all possible blood and urine testing done, and a heart ultrasound and lower digestive tract ultrasound. I will probably go on a Holter Heart Monitor during the heaviest part of my cycle, but that's yet to be seen.

My doctor HAS FULLY GIVEN THE GREEN LIGHT TO DO THIS.

Short of medically authorizing it - he is FULLY on board.

So I don't consider this to be a massive health risk.

A health risk, yes. A big one? Not hardly.

You're bragging about looking better than I do, while you need anabolics to be a WHOPPING 185 lbs....which will be gone once your experiment ends (in less than two weeks, if you don't get to 2500 calories per day....by your own words), largely because you're too lazy to keep your diet on point.

I've been 200-lb naturally, and pretty lean:



My waste tends to get wide at about 185-lb. I've actually been 213-lb, but I was just fat at that weight.

You make it sound like my weight is somehow unusual or particularly low for a natural.

It's not. It's quite normal. Natural training sucks!

Just from raising my calories slightly, I'd probably walk around at 190 at 5'9", and let's be real here - there are no masses of men who walk around significantly larger than that naturally who aren't fat.

Layne Norton was 190-lb in contest shape at 5'10.5". He was maybe 215-lb, relatively lean, supposedly naturally, but even then, people doubted his natural status:



Scott Herman was 170-lb at 5'9.5", pretty lean:



There is still some debate if Scott is natural, though most seem to think he is natural:

https://www.reddit.com/r/nattyorjuice/comments/ie74lp/scott_herman_latest_photo/

https://www.reddit.com/r/nattyorjuice/comments/4cpg8w/scott_herman/

Scott is roughly my size:

Scott just has vastly superior genetics for muscle shape, and specifically for chest.

Here's a photo of Arnold look utterly small, likely off-cycle:



The only thing bodybuilders really have is a natural shape for muscles, and longer muscle bellies, greater muscle fiber density, etc. For example, biceps that attach close to the elbow joint. They'd still be small off steroids.

The size comes from steroids - it's the shape that make pros advantaged.

I don't even think there is a consensus as to who the biggest true natural is. Even Doug Miller's moniker is "Drug Miller":



The large natural men you speak of simply do not exist.

185 is about where my waist starts getting wide.

There's nothing unusually light about my weight.

Universally, most men are not particularly heavier than me - just taller or fatter.

I think you have an absurd view of the capability of the human body. Men without steroids are basically all small or fat.

As of this moment, I am 190-lb. That means I am already up SEVEN POUNDS for this cycle, and I am only two weeks in so far, and one 250mg Sustanon shot in, when I should be up 4x such shots. I've been using under 25mg of Anadrol a day.

There's no reason why I can't get to 210-lb, in my best shape for 210, if I can eat enough.

If you think it's common or normal for anyone to be 200-lb and relatively lean at 5'9" from a lowly cycle, that's just silly.

When all is said and done, I intend to drop down to 185-lb clean, and settle around there.

We all need to decide what weight we want to be in the LONG-TERM, right?

I simply do not want to increase my calories much. For starters because caloric restriction [deprivation, essentially, within reason = fasting, for example] is EXTREMELY healthy.

I don't want the extra shitting and pissing and farting.

It's a damn shame that natural bodybuilding sucks so bad.

If you want to know my reason for the cycle - it's basically the same reason why ANYONE does a cycle ever: I WANT A CHEAT CODE.

I don't WANT to put in the effort - SPECIFICALLY FROM EATING - to gain the mass and leanness that I will from just popping pills and sticking needles in my ass.

What part of that is hard for you to understand?

What's so incredible about steroids is that I'm trying LESS HARD than I was, say, in December - and the results are better!

Again, my intention is to do 75-lb dumbbells for seated dumbbell presses for my next shoulders workout for 15 reps for three sets on Thursday.

Ordinarily, I'd probably get 12, 10, and 9 reps.

Instead, I bet I'll get three sets of 15.

No doubt I would have improved slightly without the Anadrol, but I'd be unlikely to hit 15 reps for three sets. I may fail to hit that, but I suspect I'll be close.

What's the max someone can hope to gain on a decent cycle?

Maybe 20-30 pounds?

That's exactly where I'll land, assuming I eat enough.

So I see no issues here at all - my only goal is to maximize my cycle, which I still intend to do.

I am currently 190-lb as of right now [187-lb in these shots]:

[Matt]

A few months back i was counting everything and i agree it's a chore. All the different combos of food and amounts, sometimes i was on the can 5 times a day with an arsehole that felt like i was wiping with sandpaper.
I defintely don't look like how I'd like because i don't eat "properly" but atleast i haven't got the constant farts, churning and needing so much time heading to the bog.

Which is EXACTLY why I train for strength rather than muscle mass!!!

You'll improve from workout to workout training for strength. To gain muscle mass requires too much focus on nutrition...it's sort of a 24/7 thing.

I used to think it all boiled down to training - but no.

That's why I just want to do a quick on / quick off, then go back to settle around 185, which is a very healthy, natural body weight to be, that still allows me to be fit for everyday reasons, and pretty strong, without fretting over "if it fits your macros" [oh brother] and the "Weider Instinctual Principle"  , etc.

I just want to train hard and eat when I'm hungry.

My results are not what I'd like them to be, but bodybuilding is somewhat of a con no matter how you cut it - bodybuilding is basically a fraud because even when you are in shape, you don't look like you do after getting a pump.

I look ok enough right now to walk on a public pool deck and look good - and THAT is the beauty of steroids, to me [not being flat all the time. But I will look radically better with a pump. Way better than I do right now.

And I hate that temporary nature of bodybuilding.

Then add the fact that pros have 200 photos taken at a photoshoot, under 5% of which are printed in magazines, AND they are photo retouched, etc.

It's all a fucking fraud.

That's why bodybuilding basically doesn't exist. It's all fake and temporary. Hence why it doesn't interest me.

Whereas with strength training, I can basically just get off my couch and deadlift 500 at any time. Strength stays with us 24/7, or...close enough.

[Matt]

Matt if you do this light test and Anadrol cycle by all means do a log so we can follow your results. I think this would be very interesting.

I'll start one after my next delts day. I am 191-lb now, and I could be 195-lb by then.

I'm pretty happy with how I look already, aside from horrible chest, which just derives from horrible genetics.

Not much I can do about that.

Otherwise, I'm pretty happy about this. I look forward to logging the results.

[Matt]

Yes, Matt, by all means, slam some anadrol for some contest nobody will remember a week after it's over.

Totally worth it.

Is modest Anadrol particularly unhealthy?

I've heard that Tren is pretty bad. Is Anadrol in that league?

[bhank]

You say you want to be 185 15% bodyfat when it is all over but you are already there now. Also are you sure you are counting your calories correctly as I agree with everyone else you would be in a massive calorie deficit under 1500 calories a day. My 110lb girlfriend eats more than that a day. There is no way you are 190lb and training on 1000 calories a day. No idea why you think you would be on the shitter all day if you ate more. 2k calories a day is the recommended calories for the average person not a weightlifter. Maybe you can write down everything you eat today as again your math is off somewhere. 1300 calories a day is starvation. I woke up at 4:30 am starving that is what happens when you train

You have less chest development because you have more shoulder development because you are using your shoulders instead of your chest to press lighten up and make the pecs do the work get the shoulder out of the movement

[robcguns]

Do you grasp that I miss my ex-girlfriend, whose clit smells like fish?

Do you understand that her vagina was hairy, and apparently she didn't wash it?

It was amazing.

Your a sick man Matt, hahaha.

[Matt]

You say you want to be 185 15% bodyfat when it is all over but you are already there now. Also are you sure you are counting your calories correctly as I agree with everyone else you would be in a massive calorie deficit under 1500 calories a day. My 110lb girlfriend eats more than that a day. There is no way you are 190lb and training on 1000 calories a day. No idea why you think you would be on the shitter all day if you ate more. 2k calories a day is the recommended calories for the average person not a weightlifter. Maybe you can write down everything you eat today as again your math is off somewhere. 1300 calories a day is starvation. I woke up at 4:30 am starving that is what happens when you train

You have less chest development because you have more shoulder development because you are using your shoulders instead of your chest to press lighten up and make the pecs do the work get the shoulder out of the movement

I did write it down for long periods.

Our bodies adjust quickly.

My thyroid slowed to compensate, remember?

[MCWAY]

You don't seem to grasp how fishy my ex-girlfriend's clit smelled.

I am risking my health after getting basically every possible health test Canada will allow without me going on massively long wait lists, for tests which appear to be fundamentally unnecessary, given my results thus far.

I had all possible blood and urine testing done, and a heart ultrasound and lower digestive tract ultrasound. I will probably go on a Holter Heart Monitor during the heaviest part of my cycle, but that's yet to be seen.

My doctor HAS FULLY GIVEN THE GREEN LIGHT TO DO THIS.

Short of medically authorizing it - he is FULLY on board.

So I don't consider this to be a massive health risk.

A health risk, yes. A big one? Not hardly.

Big or small, short term or not, WHY WOULD YOU RISK YOUR HEALTH, DOING SOMETHING YOU DON'T LIKE AND DON'T NEED TO DO(.....actually "HATE" was the term you used)?

I've been 200-lb naturally, and pretty lean:

Again, why risk your health to do something you don't like and you don't need to do (as in being at least 200 lbs without steroids, especially if you've done so, previously)? Everybody knows regaining lost size is FAR EASIER than getting new size.

My waste tends to get wide at about 185-lb. I've actually been 213-lb, but I was just fat at that weight.

You make it sound like my weight is somehow unusual or particularly low for a natural.

It's not. It's quite normal. Natural training sucks!

Just from raising my calories slightly, I'd probably walk around at 190 at 5'9", and let's be real here - there are no masses of men who walk around significantly larger than that naturally who aren't fat.

Layne Norton was 190-lb in contest shape at 5'10.5". He was maybe 215-lb, relatively lean, supposedly naturally, but even then, people doubted his natural status:



Scott Herman was 170-lb at 5'9.5", pretty lean:



There is still some debate if Scott is natural, though most seem to think he is natural:

https://www.reddit.com/r/nattyorjuice/comments/ie74lp/scott_herman_latest_photo/

https://www.reddit.com/r/nattyorjuice/comments/4cpg8w/scott_herman/

Scott is roughly my size:

Scott just has vastly superior genetics for muscle shape, and specifically for chest.

Here's a photo of Arnold look utterly small, likely off-cycle:



The only thing bodybuilders really have is a natural shape for muscles, and longer muscle bellies, greater muscle fiber density, etc. For example, biceps that attach close to the elbow joint. They'd still be small off steroids.

The size comes from steroids - it's the shape that make pros advantaged.

I don't even think there is a consensus as to who the biggest true natural is. Even Doug Miller's moniker is "Drug Miller":



The large natural men you speak of simply do not exist.

185 is about where my waist starts getting wide.

There's nothing unusually light about my weight.

Universally, most men are not particularly heavier than me - just taller or fatter.

I think you have an absurd view of the capability of the human body. Men without steroids are basically all small or fat.

Yet, you just said you got to 200 lbs "lean". You're torpedoing your own argument.

As of this moment, I am 190-lb. That means I am already up SEVEN POUNDS for this cycle, and I am only two weeks in so far, and one 250mg Sustanon shot in, when I should be up 4x such shots. I've been using under 25mg of Anadrol a day.

There's no reason why I can't get to 210-lb, in my best shape for 210, if I can eat enough.

If you think it's common or normal for anyone to be 200-lb and relatively lean at 5'9" from a lowly cycle, that's just silly.

When all is said and done, I intend to drop down to 185-lb clean, and settle around there.

You'll be lucky, if you don't drop lower than that, because you will no longer have the anabolics, nor the calories to keep your gains.

Didn't you say something earlier about people looking as if they never touched a weight, once they drop the sauce?

We all need to decide what weight we want to be in the LONG-TERM, right?

I simply do not want to increase my calories much. For starters because caloric restriction [deprivation, essentially, within reason = fasting, for example] is EXTREMELY healthy.

I don't want the extra shitting and pissing and farting.

It's a damn shame that natural bodybuilding sucks so bad.

If you want to know my reason for the cycle - it's basically the same reason why ANYONE does a cycle ever: I WANT A CHEAT CODE.

I don't WANT to put in the effort - SPECIFICALLY FROM EATING - to gain the mass and leanness that I will from just popping pills and sticking needles in my ass.

What part of that is hard for you to understand?

What's so incredible about steroids is that I'm trying LESS HARD than I was, say, in December - and the results are better!

Again, my intention is to do 75-lb dumbbells for seated dumbbell presses for my next shoulders workout for 15 reps for three sets on Thursday.

Ordinarily, I'd probably get 12, 10, and 9 reps.

Instead, I bet I'll get three sets of 15.

No doubt I would have improved slightly without the Anadrol, but I'd be unlikely to hit 15 reps for three sets. I may fail to hit that, but I suspect I'll be close.

What's the max someone can hope to gain on a decent cycle?

Maybe 20-30 pounds?

That's exactly where I'll land, assuming I eat enough.

So I see no issues here at all - my only goal is to maximize my cycle, which I still intend to do.

I am currently 190-lb as of right now [187-lb in these shots]:

That's part of your problem. Quit whining about what everybody else is doing and putting limitations on yourself.

[Dave D]

Mcway you do realize what you did to get big in college might not work for you today 20 years later your body is not going to respond the same way. I notice you keep referencing your gains from college and how easy it was shit is different after 40

What?

Do you mean Mcway is going to have to post about how he’s put on muscle recently?

[Grape Ape]

What?

Do you mean Mcway is going to have to post about how he’s put on muscle recently?

I think Mcway just has a bet with himself that he can get matt to post the exact same back shot every single day just by responding.

[Dave D]

I think Mcway just has a bet with himself that he can get matt to post the exact same back shot every single day just by responding.

Mcway is trolling on another level.

[bhank]

I did write it down for long periods.

Our bodies adjust quickly.

My thyroid slowed to compensate, remember?

Not that much you have to have been eating more than 1k calories a day. Try writing down one day and sharing on the what did you eat thread as again you say you can't get past 1300 calories now then you list the meal you are currently eating which I assume is one of at least 3 and it's already 1300 calories. Anabolics or not physics still applies you can't gain weight on air and sunshine