Author Topic: using the smith machine  (Read 2443 times)

NoCalBbEr

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using the smith machine
« on: April 30, 2006, 12:45:55 PM »
hey guys
 I'm thinking about throwing myself on the smith machine for squats, bench and shoulder presses. one of the biggest reason is that I've worked up to the heavy weight I.e 315 for bench and 425 on the squats. I dont have a training partner. so, its hard to guess at whos the person that can give a good spot... i know you guys think that the smith is crap. but is this a good idea or to lower the weights a bit??

pumpster

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Re: using the smith machine
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2006, 06:26:58 PM »
Trying is the only way; for some exercises the Smith version's better than free weights. Easier to max. out and easier to angle the grip, which can work better.

gtbro1

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Re: using the smith machine
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2006, 08:58:56 PM »
I like the smith for squats...not as good at overall developement as free weights,but you can position yourself to better isolate the quads.

Arnold jr

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Re: using the smith machine
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2006, 09:07:54 PM »
If you are nursing an injury or if you are completely beat a wk or two before a comp smith machines can be a life saver. Otherwise rely on free weights...if you are training alone, it's not too hard to ask someone for a quick spot. I know you are paranoid about asking just anyone, just as you should be, but if you have been training at your gym for a while then you should have a pretty good idea as to who there knows what they are doing.

headhuntersix

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Re: using the smith machine
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2006, 10:05:46 PM »
I like the smith for military press because I feel you can isolate and really pound the delts. I think you can do some good work for isolating the quads especially if you watch you foot placement. Women like it alot. I don't use it for bench. Your numbers are good. I think you can find someone to spot you. I don't worry about the guy spotting to little and killing me I usually worry he'll do to much and I won't be able to judge how I did. Squats are different, if your not coming up your spotter doesn't have alot of choices and needs to react quickly to help you out. An inexperienced guy will screw you. Good luck
L

gtbro1

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Re: using the smith machine
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2006, 11:20:56 PM »
. An inexperienced guy will screw you. Good luck

So will a homosexual!!..carefull who ya get to spot you on squats.

Cold

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Re: using the smith machine
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2006, 06:04:06 PM »
i've been using smith machine for a while due to some pain in my elbows and delts. it helps with the pain and i haven't really noticed any dropoff in muscles compared to free weight.

KSA

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Re: using the smith machine
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2006, 12:31:06 PM »

pumpster

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Re: using the smith machine
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2006, 01:51:52 PM »
Basically what they're saying is that the safety of any machine or even free weights is contingent on having effective racks or stoppers to rest the weights on-if they're compromised/removed/not cared for, could obviously be a problem.

I like this hybrid, the Jones machine:
http://www.beyondmoseying.com/bodycraft-jones-machine.html

hey_you

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Re: using the smith machine
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2006, 04:45:02 PM »
I lift at home. I bought a smith after I dropped the Barbell and it went through the floor. A rack would have been effective too. Either/or is a good idea. I like my smith and have no regrets. It has served me well.   

Beefy

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Re: using the smith machine
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2006, 05:58:24 AM »
Unless you are in rehab mode, a smith machine is NEVER better than free weights.  The only thing it is good for is holding your towel.

pumpster

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Re: using the smith machine
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2006, 06:06:24 AM »
Asinine; tell that to Yates, who prefers the Smith over free weights for squats. Free weights receive an inordinate amount of hype, usually from blockheads. They're imperfect and are sometimes not the most effective option.

Beefy

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Re: using the smith machine
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2006, 07:22:06 AM »
I think it is asinine for virtually anyone on this board to model thier program after anyone that has set foot on an Olympia stage.  JMO, of course.

haider

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Re: using the smith machine
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2006, 04:25:55 PM »
I like the smith for squats...not as good at overall developement as free weights,but you can position yourself to better isolate the quads.
Smythe mashine bild fake, loose fatty kind a muscle. Regul. bable sqt build big beefy stone rock hard quad. Also, for big meaty hams hangang from de side, u gota train isolation, hammie curling, lieig curling hammie tingy, fr big meety ha'ms frm de side wid big sweep.
follow the arrows

Princess L

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Re: using the smith machine
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2006, 06:43:58 PM »
Some food for thought


Machines are never superior to free weights. The Smith machine locks you into a fixed plane of motion, which develops what is called 'pattern overload syndrome'. This was coined by Paul Chek and is explained as:

People get a pattern overload from using the Smith machine. The more fixed the object, the more likely you are to develop a pattern overload. This is due to the fact that training in a fixed pathway repetitively loads the same muscles, tendons, ligaments and joints in the same pattern, encouraging micro-trauma that eventually leads to injury. If Johnny Lunchpail always uses a Smith machine for his bench presses, he ends up working the same fibers of the prime movers in the bench press all of the time: triceps brachii, pectoralis major, long-head of the biceps, anterior deltoids, and serratus anterior. But he can't change the pathway, the bar will always be in the same position. This commonly leads to chronic injury over time. The weight is stabilized for you. However, the joints operate in multiple planes. Use of the Smith machine, greatly decreases stabilizer activity. That creates a problem when the trainee returns to free-weight training. When that happens, the trainee is exposed to the three-dimensional environment called real life.

This clearly applies to any exercise. Because of the mechanics of the knee joint, the body will alter the natural bar pathway during a free-weight squat to accommodate efficient movement at the knee. A fixed bar pathway doesn't allow alteration of this pathway for efficient movement of the joint, thereby predisposing the knee to harmful overload via lack of accommodation.

If your feet are out in front of you, you tend to push 'back' against the bar. Doing so forces the hamstrings to function as extensors which decreases their protective effects on the knee - the result is increased sheering force on the knee. Again, over time, chronic injury.

Some might bring up the issue of 'knees going over the toes' with free bar/full squats. It's a simple biomechanical misunderstanding.

See the following:

If one were to assess knee injuries in athletic (read as: sport) environments, it becomes apparent that a high percentage of patellar trauma cases are sustained while the knee is beyond the all-sacred toe-line. In a misguided attempt to avoid knee injuries, the exercise community has therefore made this knee position taboo. In reality, the opposite reaction would have been preferential. Since this knee position is unavoidable in sports, or even in everyday life (try walking up or down stairs or a hill without your knee crossing your toe line) the proper way to prevent injuries is to strengthen the musculature around the joint by allowing the knee to travel into the “unsafe” zone in a controlled environment.

All joints contain feedback mechanisms inside the connective tissue and joint capsules called proprioceptors. These communicate with your nervous system to tell your brain what position your joint is at. This is how you can close your eyes and be aware of exactly what angle all of your joints are at without actually seeing them. To simplify a complicated issue, the more time you spend with your knee past your toe-line, the more you teach your nervous system to activate the protective soft tissue around the joint therefore PREVENTING injury during athletic situations (Supertraining, Siff & Verkoshansky, 1993).  Somehow, this news just doesn’t buy column space in Muscle and Fatness



Somehow, this news just doesn’t buy column space in Muscle and Fatness.
The take home message - learn how to squat with a bar.
:

Cold

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Re: using the smith machine
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2006, 08:22:54 PM »
everybody is aware of the fixed motion plane, but almost everyone can use more weight using the smith becuz they feel safer. pros and cons. i honestly don't think one is superior to another. as long as you struggle with the weight that's all that matters.

pumpster

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Re: using the smith machine
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2006, 08:35:45 PM »
Quote
Some food for thought

Machines are never superior to free weights. The Smith machine locks you into a fixed plane of motion, which develops what is called 'pattern overload syndrome'.
Wildly popular in-the-box mentality. Numerous examples of the opposite, such as Yates' preference for Smith squats over the free weight version, and his wide use of machine pullovers and rows.

Ex Coelis

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Re: using the smith machine
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2006, 06:47:42 PM »
smith rack is great for behind the neck press, military press, and shrugs - i personally wouldn't use it for anything else

maybe incline