Jaamal Bowman Censured for his “Insurrection”

[Vince G, CSN MFT]

I don't know which one is more serious, but that's not really the point.  People manipulate words and language to make political points.  This is one of those instances.  Democrats call January 6 an insurrection.  It wasn't an insurrection, but calling it one makes it sound much worse.

This is what started the whole thing

It started out as just a regular Trump Rally which is why most people were there to begin with.   People obviously had different reasons to be there.  Some were actually trying to overthrow the government, some wanted to destroy things, a few were actual Russian spies. 

[Dos Equis]

This is what started the whole thing

It started out as just a regular Trump Rally which is why most people were there to begin with.   People obviously had different reasons to be there.  Some were actually trying to overthrow the government, some wanted to destroy things, a few were actual Russian spies.

Nobody was there to overthrow the government.  They didn't have the weapons, means, or opportunity to overthrow the U.S. government and its military.  This was nothing more than a number of people trespassing and disrupting a public proceedings, some with the help of people working on the grounds.  But we have politicians (including our president) saying it was worse than 9/11.

[Vince G, CSN MFT]

Nobody was there to overthrow the government.  They didn't have the weapons, means, or opportunity to overthrow the U.S. government and its military.  This was nothing more than a number of people trespassing and disrupting a public proceedings, some with the help of people working on the grounds.  But we have politicians (including our president) saying it was worse than 9/11.

Plenty of people were there to overthrow it and a lot of them were armed.   I'm just glad no-one got gunned down...well except that woman but she earned that high 5

[Primemuscle]

If January 6 was an insurrection, then why have none of the more than 1,000 who have been prosecuted been charged with insurrection?

Just a thought, but maybe it is because an insurrection is the sum of its parts.

Josh Blackman, professor of constitutional law at South Texas College of Law, says the crime of insurrection is very hard to prove. Federal prosecutors must prove these folks went to the Capitol building with the intent of overthrowing the government. This may have been the intent of some folks who participated in the January 6th 'whatever you want to call it,' but it is unlikely it was everyone's. My guess is many people who stormed the capital simply intended to disrupt the official count of electoral votes. Many more were just along for the ride or there 'to party', as it were, i.e. Jacob Chansley, sometimes referred to as the QAnon Shaman.

What rises to the level of an insurrection is wide ranging and debatable. According to a PBS lesson plan, events which historically rose to the level of an insurrection in the U.S. are, Shays’ Rebellion, January 1786, The Memphis and New Orleans Riots of 1866, Wilmington Coup D’état of 1898, Ocoee Riot, November 3, 1920, Protests at UC Berkeley, Free Speech Movement 1965. Some other examples of events that may be considered insurrections are the New York Draft Riots of 1863. Which may be the most violent insurrection in American history. This event continued over the course of four days.

Sometimes these events are called rebellions. Perhaps, it would be more accurate to label the event at the U.S. Capitol on January 6th a rebellion which according to Websters definition is: an open, armed, and usually unsuccessful defiance of or resistance to an established government. B.: an instance of such defiance or resistance. The event on January 6th, 2021, was an attempt to overturn his November 2020 election, which to my mind is not the same thing as overthrowing the government.

The bottom line is that the Department of Justice most likely charges folks with crimes that have a good chance of being proved. Many constitutional 'legal eagles' maintain convicting someone of being an insurrectionist is difficult. The hundreds of folks who have been charged and convicted in connection with the events of January 6, 2021, are probably lucky they weren’t additionally charged with insurrection. On the other hand, whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States of laws thereof, or gives aid and comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than ten years, or both, and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 808; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(L), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.) 

[Dos Equis]

Plenty of people were there to overthrow it and a lot of them were armed.   I'm just glad no-one got gunned down...well except that woman but she earned that high 5

I'm unaware of anyone being charged with the use of a weapon to try and overthrow the government.  Take a step back and think about this.  A handful of people armed with things like hockey sticks (true story) showed up on January 6 to try and takeover the federal government and its military.  You don't believe that.

[Dos Equis]

Just a thought, but maybe it is because an insurrection is the sum of its parts.

Josh Blackman, professor of constitutional law at South Texas College of Law, says the crime of insurrection is very hard to prove. Federal prosecutors must prove these folks went to the Capitol building with the intent of overthrowing the government. This may have been the intent of some folks who participated in the January 6th 'whatever you want to call it,' but it is unlikely it was everyone's. My guess is many people who stormed the capital simply intended to disrupt the official count of electoral votes. Many more were just along for the ride or there 'to party', as it were, i.e. Jacob Chansley, sometimes referred to as the QAnon Shaman.

What rises to the level of an insurrection is wide ranging and debatable. According to a PBS lesson plan, events which historically rose to the level of an insurrection in the U.S. are, Shays’ Rebellion, January 1786, The Memphis and New Orleans Riots of 1866, Wilmington Coup D’état of 1898, Ocoee Riot, November 3, 1920, Protests at UC Berkeley, Free Speech Movement 1965. Some other examples of events that may be considered insurrections are the New York Draft Riots of 1863. Which may be the most violent insurrection in American history. This event continued over the course of four days.

Sometimes these events are called rebellions. Perhaps, it would be more accurate to label the event at the U.S. Capitol on January 6th a rebellion which according to Websters definition is: an open, armed, and usually unsuccessful defiance of or resistance to an established government. B.: an instance of such defiance or resistance. The event on January 6th, 2021, was an attempt to overturn his November 2020 election, which to my mind is not the same thing as overthrowing the government.

The bottom line is that the Department of Justice most likely charges folks with crimes that have a good chance of being proved. Many constitutional 'legal eagles' maintain convicting someone of being an insurrectionist is difficult. The hundreds of folks who have been charged and convicted in connection with the events of January 6, 2021, are probably lucky they weren’t additionally charged with insurrection. On the other hand, whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States of laws thereof, or gives aid and comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than ten years, or both, and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 808; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(L), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)

It's much simpler than this.  There was no insurrection.  That's why no one was charged with insurrection. 

[Vince G, CSN MFT]

I'm unaware of anyone being charged with the use of a weapon to try and overthrow the government.  Take a step back and think about this.  A handful of people armed with things like hockey sticks (true story) showed up on January 6 to try and takeover the federal government and its military.  You don't believe that.

They attacked Capitol Police and attempted to go out and kill Mike Pence and the other lawmakers.  They had gallows set up.  They also had pepper spray and there were people with guns.  The weapons are beside the point but the intent. 

[Agnostic007]

Just a thought, but maybe it is because an insurrection is the sum of its parts.

Josh Blackman, professor of constitutional law at South Texas College of Law, says the crime of insurrection is very hard to prove. Federal prosecutors must prove these folks went to the Capitol building with the intent of overthrowing the government. This may have been the intent of some folks who participated in the January 6th 'whatever you want to call it,' but it is unlikely it was everyone's. My guess is many people who stormed the capital simply intended to disrupt the official count of electoral votes. Many more were just along for the ride or there 'to party', as it were, i.e. Jacob Chansley, sometimes referred to as the QAnon Shaman.

What rises to the level of an insurrection is wide ranging and debatable. According to a PBS lesson plan, events which historically rose to the level of an insurrection in the U.S. are, Shays’ Rebellion, January 1786, The Memphis and New Orleans Riots of 1866, Wilmington Coup D’état of 1898, Ocoee Riot, November 3, 1920, Protests at UC Berkeley, Free Speech Movement 1965. Some other examples of events that may be considered insurrections are the New York Draft Riots of 1863. Which may be the most violent insurrection in American history. This event continued over the course of four days.

Sometimes these events are called rebellions. Perhaps, it would be more accurate to label the event at the U.S. Capitol on January 6th a rebellion which according to Websters definition is: an open, armed, and usually unsuccessful defiance of or resistance to an established government. B.: an instance of such defiance or resistance. The event on January 6th, 2021, was an attempt to overturn his November 2020 election, which to my mind is not the same thing as overthrowing the government.

The bottom line is that the Department of Justice most likely charges folks with crimes that have a good chance of being proved. Many constitutional 'legal eagles' maintain convicting someone of being an insurrectionist is difficult. The hundreds of folks who have been charged and convicted in connection with the events of January 6, 2021, are probably lucky they weren’t additionally charged with insurrection. On the other hand, whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States of laws thereof, or gives aid and comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than ten years, or both, and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 808; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(L), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)

Did you get the response you were hoping for?

[Agnostic007]

They attacked Capitol Police and attempted to go out and kill Mike Pence and the other lawmakers.  They had gallows set up.  They also had pepper spray and there were people with guns.  The weapons are beside the point but the intent.

But... it doesn't matter. They won't ever see that.. you just have to trust me on this

[illuminati]

But... it doesn't matter. They won't ever see that.. you just have to trust me on this

It does , Only can you remind us all who was the only person shot & killed
that day & by whom were they shot. ?

or doesn't that matter to you ?

[Dos Equis]

They attacked Capitol Police and attempted to go out and kill Mike Pence and the other lawmakers.  They had gallows set up.  They also had pepper spray and there were people with guns.  The weapons are beside the point but the intent.

No one was charged with trying to kill Mike Pence or other lawmakers. 

So people with pepper spray were going to overthrow the federal government and our armed forces?  Are you trolling?  lol

[Vince G, CSN MFT]

No one was charged with trying to kill Mike Pence or other lawmakers. 

So people with pepper spray were going to overthrow the federal government and our armed forces?  Are you trolling?  lol

Do you think that what they did was not against the law and that those people did absolutely nothing wrong that day???   I'm not trolling, I'm being dead serious.  The fact is that a lot of police officers were seriously injured that day and all because of the incident, protest, riot, insurrection or whatever you wish to call it.   

[Dos Equis]

Do you think that what they did was not against the law and that those people did absolutely nothing wrong that day???   I'm not trolling, I'm being dead serious.  The fact is that a lot of police officers were seriously injured that day and all because of the incident, protest, riot, insurrection or whatever you wish to call it.

Yes I think a number of people broke the law that day, including trespassing and interfering with a public proceeding.  They should all be held accountable.  What they did not do was engage in an insurrection. 

Don't accept the narrative they have been peddling.  No, a police officer was not bashed in the heed with a fire extinguisher.  No, there were no police officers killed by any of the protesters.  No, there was no one there who used a weapon to try and overthrow the government and our military. 

[Vince G, CSN MFT]

Yes I think a number of people broke the law that day, including trespassing and interfering with a public proceeding.  They should all be held accountable.  What they did not do was engage in an insurrection. 

Don't accept the narrative they have been peddling.  No, a police officer was not bashed in the heed with a fire extinguisher.  No, there were no police officers killed by any of the protesters.  No, there was no one there who used a weapon to try and overthrow the government and our military.

People have already plead guilty and convicted to hitting officers with not only a fire extinguisher but with bats, shovels, 2x4's, pepper spray etc.   The definition of an insurrection is a violent uprising against an authority or government....Antifa and the Proud Boys do it on a regular basis, Palestinian supporters are now doing it...those are all insurrections.   The whole argument in this thread was simply saying that pulling a fire alarm is NOT AN INSURRECTION.   Would you not agree with me at least on that?

[Dos Equis]

People have already plead guilty and convicted to hitting officers with not only a fire extinguisher but with bats, shovels, 2x4's, pepper spray etc.   The definition of an insurrection is a violent uprising against an authority or government....Antifa and the Proud Boys do it on a regular basis, Palestinian supporters are now doing it...those are all insurrections.   The whole argument in this thread was simply saying that pulling a fire alarm is NOT AN INSURRECTION.   Would you not agree with me at least on that?

Who pleaded guilty to hitting police officers with a fire extinguisher, etc.? 

An insurrection isn't just a violent uprising; it is an attempt to overthrow and control a government. 

I don't agree that Antifa and the Proud Boys should be mentioned in the same sentence.  Not even close. 

I do agree with you that pulling the fire alarm was not an insurrection.  But Coach was using irony.  He wasn't being literal.  His point was that someone disrupting a public proceeding on January 6 was no more engaging in an insurrection than Bowman intentionally pulling the fire alarm, which disrupted a public proceeding. 

[Vince G, CSN MFT]

Who pleaded guilty to hitting police officers with a fire extinguisher, etc.? 

An insurrection isn't just a violent uprising; it is an attempt to overthrow and control a government. 

I don't agree that Antifa and the Proud Boys should be mentioned in the same sentence.  Not even close. 

I do agree with you that pulling the fire alarm was not an insurrection.  But Coach was using irony.  He wasn't being literal.  His point was that someone disrupting a public proceeding on January 6 was no more engaging in an insurrection than Bowman intentionally pulling the fire alarm, which disrupted a public proceeding.

Go look up the cases.  The definition of an insurrection is exactly as described in the Oxford dictionary.

Antifa and Proud Boys/Patriot Prayer are two different sides of the coin.   I think some of the members of Antifa should have been charged with sedition....no different than Enrique Torres.  They are 2 violent groups of people who go at each other on the street like the Crips and Bloods.   All of them should be locked in the same cage so they can have at each other without endangering the lives of other people trying to get through the day in peace or having the roads blocked and their headlights busted out all because some black guy who was shot down by the police because he pointed a gun at them and was in commision of a crime 

I fully believe in free speech and I know that a lot of those people on January 6th were caught up in the moment and as a lot of them have said in court, misled by Donald Trump in taking that action...although they are adult and should have known better

[Dos Equis]

Go look up the cases.  The definition of an insurrection is exactly as described in the Oxford dictionary.

Antifa and Proud Boys/Patriot Prayer are two different sides of the coin.   I think some of the members of Antifa should have been charged with sedition....no different than Enrique Torres.  They are 2 violent groups of people who go at each other on the street like the Crips and Bloods.   All of them should be locked in the same cage so they can have at each other without endangering the lives of other people trying to get through the day in peace or having the roads blocked and their headlights busted out all because some black guy who was shot down by the police because he pointed a gun at them and was in commision of a crime 

I fully believe in free speech and I know that a lot of those people on January 6th were caught up in the moment and as a lot of them have said in court, misled by Donald Trump in taking that action...although they are adult and should have known better

I've looked at the cases and I don't recall seeing anyone pleading guilty to hitting a police officer with a fire extinguisher.  You might be confusing this with the lie they told (and many continue to tell) that Officer Brian Sicknick was killed after being bashed in the head with a fire extinguisher.  Never happened.
 
Antifa is a terrorist organization.  They have assaulted people, attacked a federal courthouse in Oregon for like a month straight, used all sorts of weapons to attack law enforcement, etc.  I'm unaware of the Proud Boys doing anything like that.  But I confess I don't really follow them or precisely what they do.

Trump genuinely believes the election was stolen from him.  If you believe in free speech, then you support his right to say that the election was stolen and to encourage people on January 6 to "peacefully and patriotically" protest.  Those were his exact words. 

But overall I think we agree that whomever broke the law on January 6 should be held accountable.

[Vince G, CSN MFT]

I've looked at the cases and I don't recall seeing anyone pleading guilty to hitting a police officer with a fire extinguisher.  You might be confusing this with the lie they told (and many continue to tell) that Officer Brian Sicknick was killed after being bashed in the head with a fire extinguisher.  Never happened.
 
Antifa is a terrorist organization.  They have assaulted people, attacked a federal courthouse in Oregon for like a month straight, used all sorts of weapons to attack law enforcement, etc.  I'm unaware of the Proud Boys doing anything like that.  But I confess I don't really follow them or precisely what they do.

Trump genuinely believes the election was stolen from him.  If you believe in free speech, then you support his right to say that the election was stolen and to encourage people on January 6 to "peacefully and patriotically" protest.  Those were his exact words. 

But overall I think we agree that whomever broke the law on January 6 should be held accountable.

As president, Donald Trump failed and/or ignored the fact that a sitting presidents words has enormous influence over the actions of people and consequences.   He can plead his case of a stolen election but he tells people things like falsely accuse multiple election workers of ballot stuffing as what happenned in Georgia where they literally had to run for their lives and sell their houses because of the death threat and people banging in their doors....and people believed him because he was the President Of The United States.

As a public servant, you have to give up some of your 1st Amendment rights for the good of the nation.   If I go and tell a country to go fuck themselves, it means nothing.  But if Trump does it, then he could start a war with the country.    Hopefully the people in Iowa are smart enough to vote Nikki Haley

[deadz]

As president, Donald Trump failed and/or ignored the fact that a sitting presidents words has enormous influence over the actions of people and consequences.   He can plead his case of a stolen election but he tells people things like falsely accuse multiple election workers of ballot stuffing as what happenned in Georgia where they literally had to run for their lives and sell their houses because of the death threat and people banging in their doors....and people believed him because he was the President Of The United States.

As a public servant, you have to give up some of your 1st Amendment rights for the good of the nation.   If I go and tell a country to go fuck themselves, it means nothing.  But if Trump does it, then he could start a war with the country.    Hopefully the people in Iowa are smart enough to vote Nikki Haley

[deadz]

Haley


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/iowa-poll-donald-trump-holds-overwhelming-lead-ron-desantis-edges-ahead-of-nikki-haley/ar-AA1ljIKi?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=8c66b2a0011a41108121a22136e00b12&ei=16


NO ONE can touch Mr. Trump this time around. MAGA

[Dos Equis]

As president, Donald Trump failed and/or ignored the fact that a sitting presidents words has enormous influence over the actions of people and consequences.   He can plead his case of a stolen election but he tells people things like falsely accuse multiple election workers of ballot stuffing as what happenned in Georgia where they literally had to run for their lives and sell their houses because of the death threat and people banging in their doors....and people believed him because he was the President Of The United States.

As a public servant, you have to give up some of your 1st Amendment rights for the good of the nation.   If I go and tell a country to go fuck themselves, it means nothing.  But if Trump does it, then he could start a war with the country.    Hopefully the people in Iowa are smart enough to vote Nikki Haley

Haley


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/iowa-poll-donald-trump-holds-overwhelming-lead-ron-desantis-edges-ahead-of-nikki-haley/ar-AA1ljIKi?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=8c66b2a0011a41108121a22136e00b12&ei=16


NO ONE can touch Mr. Trump this time around. MAGA

She doesn't have a snowball's chance of beating Trump. 

You support this? 

Nikki Haley proposes requiring social media users to verify their identities over ‘national security’ concerns
By Social Links forVictor Nava
Published Nov. 14, 2023
https://nypost.com/2023/11/14/news/nikki-haley-proposes-requiring-social-media-users-to-verify-their-identities/

[deadz]

She doesn't have a snowball's chance of beating Trump. 

You support this? 

Nikki Haley proposes requiring social media users to verify their identities over ‘national security’ concerns
By Social Links forVictor Nava
Published Nov. 14, 2023
https://nypost.com/2023/11/14/news/nikki-haley-proposes-requiring-social-media-users-to-verify-their-identities/

Democrats are the biggest contributors to her campaign. Haley is paid for and Vince wants her as his leader.

[AbrahamG]

Plenty of people were there to overthrow it and a lot of them were armed.   I'm just glad no-one got gunned down...well except that woman but she earned that high 5

LMFAO! 

[Primemuscle]

It's much simpler than this.  There was no insurrection.  That's why no one was charged with insurrection.

In your opinion. Not everyone shares this opinion, BTW.

[Dos Equis]

In your opinion. Not everyone shares this opinion, BTW.

It's a fact that none of the more than 1000 people who have been charged as a result of January 6 were charged with insurrection. 

This insurrection stuff is just dumb.  It's like calling a bunch of people who got in a fight murderers, when no one died and no one was charged with murder.