Dangers of Statin Drugs

[Van_Bilderass]

That'd be Paul Saladino.  After following a strict, very low-carb, meat-only diet for a while, and even writing a book about it, the guy came out as a closet sugar addict.  Now he eats insane amounts of very sweet, tropical fruits and lots of honey daily.  He even pours honey on his steaks.

He has since made lots of bold, crazy claims about the benefits of eating a very high sugar diet, even quoting studies funded by Coca-Cola...lol.  He'll do and say anything to justify his sugar addiction to his followers.

Apparently, he stays in shape burning off all that sugar by surfing in Costa Rica for many hours every day, he says.

Ok thanks, I don't follow these debates just saw a short reel where he mentioned this. My master guru was and still is Lyle McDonald and even though it was years ago I really followed him I still trust implicity that he was always right and he though the insulin model of weight gain, the crusade against vegetables by a some carnivores and etc was a bunch of shit 
How do you eat yourself and what kind of shape, say fat percentage, do you hold?

[IroNat]

What do you think about this. You are probably not that familiar with insulin use as a PED. But someone like wes takes under 30iu of 24 hour acting insulin per day as a replacement. Just as a relative reference point. You have a couple, and more who haven't talked about it, pro bodybuilders who do the following. First they take lots of GH which causes insulin resistance. Then they train twice daily. Before and after each session they take 25iu of fast acting insulin, that's 100iu total per day. Then in periods, or a couple of days per week, they add 100iu a day of the insulin wes takes abou 27iu of. AND in periods with the 100iu Lantus they eat about 1500g carbs. After years of this they claim perfect insulin sensitivity (there's a few ways to test it). Some of them attribute it to mostly only using during and around workouts so the insulin isn't active around the clock. But what the hell is going on lol, clearly things are a bit more complicated but I would attribute some of it to being so active and eating very low fat plus doing daily cardio. Plus they manage to stay extremely lean always, way leaner than what a doc would call perfect bf%.

Van,
I can't give any opinion on that as I only play a doctor on Getbig.
Wes' use of insulin is like your typical Type 1 diabetic whose pancreas does not produce insulin.
His pancreas has shut down due to his cancer.
The long term effect of the behavior of these pro-bbs is probably not good if they keep it up over an extended time frame.
They are messing with their body's hormones in so many ways it's probably hard to pinpoint where the edge of the cliff is.
Type 2 diabetes in the general population usually takes decades to manifest itself.
Blood glucose will appear normal (general population) because of the pancreas secreting insulin in higher and higher amounts to counteract growing insulin resistance.
Eventually the pancreas begins to run out of steam and Type 2 diabetes occurs.
Doctors rarely check insulin levels in regular bloodwork.

[Van_Bilderass]

Van,
I can't give any opinion on that as I only play a doctor on Getbig. 
The long term effect of the behavior of these pro-bbs is probably not good if they keep it up over an extended time frame.
They are messing with their body's hormones in so many ways it's probably hard to pinpoint where the edge of the cliff is.
Type 2 diabetes in the general population usually takes decades to manifest itself.
Blood glucose will appear normal (general population) because of the pancreas secreting insulin in higher and higher amounts to counteract growing insulin resistance.
Eventually the pancreas begins to run out of steam and Type 2 diabetes occurs.
Doctors rarely check insulin levels in regular bloodwork.

You're right. Some of these guys check a bunch of parameters by themself almost weekly (!), and sometimes include things like fasting, maybe even post prandial, insulin levels, things docs would never check normally unless the bloodwork was off. But of course they are playing with fire, things can easily go haywire and they know it too, some of these guys aren't stupid. And example of checking bloodwork, I recently had pancreatitis and docs told me they NEVER check inflammation markers after initial confirmation of inflammation, they assume the knflammation will just pass with time, no interventions really. One of these bodybuilders had pancreatitis and he's held very close check on his inflammation levels for a whole year trying different things to bring it down as much as possible. So perhaps even going overboard with the monitoring. What's a bit ridiculous, and I think highly illegal since they aren't docs, is all these bb coaches and gurus requiring bloodwork before they start working wiith a client and then at different points. Perhaps it's good in the sense that they might catch some real red flags but playing doctor is illegal. Here in Sweden docs really resisted allowing private citizens to order bloodwork themselves and in some countries you aren't even allowed to do so.

[IroNat]

You're right. Some of these guys check a bunch of parameters by themself almost weekly (!), and sometimes include things like fasting, maybe even post prandial, insulin levels, things docs would never check normally unless the bloodwork was off. But of course they are playing with fire, things can easily go haywire and they know it too, some of these guys aren't stupid. And example of checking bloodwork, I recently had pancreatitis and docs told me they NEVER check inflammation markers after initial confirmation of inflammation, they assume the knflammation will just pass with time, no interventions really. One of these bodybuilders had pancreatitis and he's held very close check on his inflammation levels for a whole year trying different things to bring it down as much as possible. So perhaps even going overboard with the monitoring. What's a bit ridiculous, and I think highly illegal since they aren't docs, is all these bb coaches and gurus requiring bloodwork before they start working wiith a client and then at different points. Perhaps it's good in the sense that they might catch some real red flags but playing doctor is illegal. Here in Sweden docs really resisted allowing private citizens to order bloodwork themselves and in some countries you aren't even allowed to do so.

You can order your own bloodwork at least in some states in the U.S. (not sure about all).

However, it is not covered by insurance as far as I know if you do this on your own.  Only if a doctor prescribed it.

If a doctor prescribe the tests in the case of a annual physical, even then, insurance companies only cover certain tests, usually the basic bloodwork tests, for "free".  Anything beyond basic tests then you have to pay all or part.

When you get your lab results from the lab, it shows you the parameters for each test and you can see if you are out of whack.

This is all the doctors do when they review your tests. 

[GymnJuice]

You're right. Some of these guys check a bunch of parameters by themself almost weekly (!), and sometimes include things like fasting, maybe even post prandial, insulin levels, things docs would never check normally unless the bloodwork was off. But of course they are playing with fire, things can easily go haywire and they know it too, some of these guys aren't stupid. And example of checking bloodwork, I recently had pancreatitis and docs told me they NEVER check inflammation markers after initial confirmation of inflammation, they assume the knflammation will just pass with time, no interventions really. One of these bodybuilders had pancreatitis and he's held very close check on his inflammation levels for a whole year trying different things to bring it down as much as possible. So perhaps even going overboard with the monitoring. What's a bit ridiculous, and I think highly illegal since they aren't docs, is all these bb coaches and gurus requiring bloodwork before they start working wiith a client and then at different points. Perhaps it's good in the sense that they might catch some real red flags but playing doctor is illegal. Here in Sweden docs really resisted allowing private citizens to order bloodwork themselves and in some countries you aren't even allowed to do so.

There is a very strong association between diabetes and heart disease. It isn't well understood exactly what the cause is (lots of correlations, not good data on a specific cause). I don't think you'll ever see good long term studies on people taking insulin when they don't have diabetes but I'd bet they have a higher incidence of heart disease.

[Grape Ape]

A tbls of honey alone won't hurt you.

A tbls of honey combined with donuts, pizza, ice cream, grains, bread, rice, pasta, cake, cookies, fruit loops, soda pop, etc. will hurt you.

Fixed version

Donuts, pizza, ice cream, grains, bread, rice, pasta, cake, cookies, fruit loops, soda pop, etc. will hurt you.

[IroNat]

Fixed version

Donuts, pizza, ice cream, grains, bread, rice, pasta, cake, cookies, fruit loops, soda pop, etc. will hurt you.

We forgot the peach cobbler!

[Van_Bilderass]

There is a very strong association between diabetes and heart disease. It isn't well understood exactly what the cause is (lots of correlations, not good data on a specific cause). I don't think you'll ever see good long term studies on people taking insulin when they don't have diabetes but I'd bet they have a higher incidence of heart disease.

Exactly, it's unknown pretty much, as far as I know if the insulin itself is very harmful though I have vague memories reading about negative mechanisms. But diabetes and cardiovascular disease, zero doubt. As you probably know insulin can actually save a bodybuilders pancreas and other organs if he takes a lot of GH which can cause hyperglycemia. Many bodybuilders only take insulin before training so the thinking goes that you are only exposed to high levels for a few hours, which would limit potential damage. Milos Sarcev has used insulin for 35 years and he isn't diabetic and is in fact in fantastic shape, though this is just an anecdote and no proof of anything.

[Grape Ape]

We forgot the peach cobbler!

The anabolic positives outweigh the negatives here

[loco]

A lifetime of exposure to very high LDL-C without statin therapy hasn't killed or even harmed Dr David Diamond, neuroscientist and professor at the University of South Florida:

[Donny]

A lifetime of exposure to very high LDL-C without statin therapy hasn't killed or even harmed Dr David Diamond, neuroscientist and professor at the University of South Florida:

you Loco

[loco]

you Loco

Yes, that's me.  Did you watch the video?

[Donny]

Yes, that's me.  Did you watch the video?

No

[loco]

No

You should.  The doc presents plenty of medical and scientific evidence, and he himself has Familial hypercholesterolemia.

[loco]

How do you eat yourself and what kind of shape, say fat percentage, do you hold?

Very sustainable.  I've been on a diet of mostly fatty red meat, some eggs, some cheese, bacon, heavy cream and butter for 5+ years, for health reasons.  I keep my carbs below 20g per day and avoid plant-based foods for the most part.  Best and most sustainable diet for me ever.  I plan to stay on it for the rest of my life.

The past six months I've been eating a grilled 6-8oz NY strip seasoned with salt 1s thing in the morning, nothing else.  I eat the same thing for lunch.  For my early afternoon dinner I eat 2 whole eggs with 3-4oz shredded cheddar cheese, a cup of decaf coffee with heavy cream and artificial sweetener.  Delicious.

On the weekends I'll eat one very large meal of nothing but meat at a local Brazilian steak house, and on Sunday I usually eat one meal: 1 lbs ground beef mixed with 2oz chopped beef liver, low-carb chunky salsa, and shredded cheddar cheese.  Delicious.

My physical and mental health are now much better than ever, and improving every year I stay on this way of eating.

As of my latest yearly physical a few months ago, plus other out-of-pocket tests I had done late last year:

HDL: 56 mg/dL (Normal value: >39 mg/dL)
Triglycerides: 64 mg/dL (Normal range: 0 - 149 mg/dL)
VLDL: 10 mg/dL (Normal range: 5 - 40 mg/dL)
LDL: 181 mg/dL (Normal range: 0 - 99 mg/dL)
ApoB: 128 mg/dL (Normal value: <90 mg/dL)
Lipoprotein (a): 20.6 nmol/L (Normal value: <75.0 nmol/L)
C-Reactive Protein (A marker of arterial inflammation): <1 mg/L (Normal range: 0 - 10 mg/L)

Total Calcium Score:  0.4 (Minimal amount of atherosclerotic plaque)
0 -  No identifiable plaque.  Very low, generally less than 5 percent.
1 - 10:  Minimal identifiable plaque.  Very unlikely, less than 10 percent.
11-100: Definite, at least mild atherosclerotic plaque.  Mild or minimal coronary narrowings likely.
101 - 400:  Definite, at least moderate atherosclerotic plaque.  Mild coronary artery disease highly likely, significant narrowings possible.
401 or higher:  Extensive atherosclerotic plaque.  High likelihood of at least one significant coronary narrowing.

Fasting Insulin: 2.8 uU/mL (Normal range:  0 - 17 uU/mL)
Fasting Glucose: 92 mg/dL (Normal range: 70 - 99 mg/dL)
A1C: 5.0% (Normal range: 4.8 - 5.6 %)
HOMA-IR (Homeostatic Model Assessment of Insulin Resistance) : 0.7 (Less than 1.0: Indicates good insulin sensitivity)

Blood Pressure: 116/76 mmHg (Normal value less than 120/80 mmHg) I reversed hypertension with my current diet by lowering chronic high insulin levels.

Abdominal Aortic Aneurysm Screening: Normal
Atrial Fibrillation: Normal
Carotid Artery Disease Screening: Normal
Peripheral Arterial Disease Screening: Normal

Thyroid Hormone:
TSH: 1.875 uIU/mL (Normal range: 0.340 - 5.600 uIU/mL)
T4,Free(Direct): 1.09 ng/dL (Normal range: 0.54 - 1.24 ng/dL)
T3 Free: 2.5 pg/mL (Normal range: 2.0 - 4.4 pg/mL)

Testosterone, Serum: 532ng/dL (Normal range: 264 - 916 ng/dL)
Free Testosterone (Direct): 45.7pg/mL (Normal range: 7.2 - 24.0 pg/mL)

As you can see, everything is in the normal range except for LDL, ApoB, and Free Testosterone which are all elevated.  I'm not concerned at all about these, and neither are my doctors based on my overall health picture and all my other health markers.

I entered my numbers into the calculator linked below and it said that my 10 year risk for developing ASCVD (Atherosclerotic Cardiovascular Disease) is 3.6% Low:

https://tools.acc.org/ascvd-risk-estimator-plus/#!/calculate/estimate/

I had my first and so far only colonoscopy 3 years into my red meat diet and all they found were two tiny polyps which they removed.  They said this was better than average for someone my age and to get another colonoscopy 3 to 5 years later.  The reason for the 3 years is because cancer runs aggressively in my family.

According to big pharma, conventional medicine, the food industry, and the media, after 5+ years of daily eating over 1 lbs fatty red meat and whole eggs, no veggies, no fruit, no grains, no legumes, no fiber, etc., by now my arteries should be completely clogged and my colon should be rotting with cancer.

Instead, I am healthier than ever and my health improves every year I follow this way of eating consistently.  I take no prescription medications at all.

My body fat is low, but not below 10%.  I've lost 31 lbs of fat and have managed to maintain the fat loss for years.  I could never do that before.  I plan to lose another 23 lbs of fat in the next couple of years.  I'm going very slow because I want to get to my ideal body weight and stay lean for the rest of my life.  We'll see, fingers crossed.

[Donny]

You should.  The doc shows plenty of evidence, and he himself has Familial hypercholesterolemia.

Itīs OK loco i respect your opinions on it but have you, yourself had a Heart attack ?
I take 1 tab every 2 days ( Atovastatin 40 mg ) but the Hospital said one every day.
I spoke to my Cardiologist & he said 1 every two days after i spoke about possible side effects.
some people who, whoīve no medical knowledge rant on about Heart attacks & diets but they understand very little about medicine.
" itīs steroids or you eat shit & are fat "
always the same rubbish.

[loco]

Itīs OK loco i respect your opinions on it but have you, yourself had a Heart attack ?
I take 1 tab every 2 days ( Atovastatin 40 mg ) but the Hospital said one every day.
I spoke to my Cardiologist & he said 1 every two days after i spoke about possible side effects.
some people who, whoīve no medical knowledge rant on about Heart attacks & diets but they understand very little about medicine.
" itīs steroids or you eat shit & are fat "
always the same rubbish.

Sorry about your heart attack!  I'm sure I read about it earlier in this or other threads and forgot.

The doc in the video says statins are helpful for people like you who have already had a heart attack, because statins have anti-inflammatory and anticoagulant properties.

Best wishes to you, sir!

[Donny]

Sorry about your heart attack!  I'm sure I read about this earlier in this or other threads and forgot.

The doc in the video says statins are helpful for people like you who have already had a heart attack, because statins have anti-inflammatory and anti-coagulant properties.

Best wishes to you, sir!

Thanks loco.. iīm doing fine & i cycle every day on my mountain bike. Weight training is more higher reps but still basic stuff like before which i modified for my Wing tsun training.
Infact i donīt really think about being ill i just soldier on 

[loco]

Thanks loco.. iīm doing fine & i cycle every day on my mountain bike. Weight training is more higher reps but still basic stuff like before which i modified for my Wing tsun training.
Infact i donīt really think about being ill i just soldier on 

That's great, Donny!  Good to know.

[Donny]

That's great, Donny!  Good to know.

I remember when i worked as a Trainer some years ago i met a guy who had a Heart attack at 39 & he was on anti-depressant drugs.
I think itīs a mental challange for some .. i understood at his age.
However life goes on   
I need no happy pills but just keep moving !

[loco]

I remember when i worked as a Trainer some years ago i met a guy who had a Heart attack at 39 & he was on anti-depressant drugs.
I think itīs a mental challange for some .. i understood at his age.
However life goes on   
I need no happy pills but just keep moving !

At 39, that's rough. 

[Donny]

At 39, that's rough. 

yes he was really in a bad way mentally which i understood as i wrote, he looked quite fit but obviously he wasnīt.

[MajorDomo]

If you avoid processed foods you will do fine. Just read the labels on shit that passes as food in the USA. Flat out garbage. Once you skip the carrageenan, guar gum, high fructose corn syrup, inulin etc etc. you will find you end up eating foods we call "clean"- and you will eat a lot less of them because you feel full.

The food standards in the USA have been sold to the highest bidder. Who the hell approved synthetic dyes in the first place? it boggles the mind how all that trash ended up being OK.

[loco]

yes he was really in a bad way mentally which i understood as i wrote, he looked quite fit but obviously he wasnīt.

Can't say I wouldn't be devastated and depressed too.

[loco]

If you avoid processed foods you will do fine. Just read the labels on shit that passes as food in the USA. Flat out garbage. Once you skip the carrageenan, guar gum, high fructose corn syrup, inulin etc etc. you will find you end up eating foods we call "clean"- and you will eat a lot less of them because you feel full.

The food standards in the USA have been sold to the highest bidder. Who the hell approved synthetic dyes in the first place? it boggles the mind how all that trash ended up being OK.

MajorDomo ain't wrong.