Vince Gironda was a genius and an asshole, he is the GOAT Trainer

[SAF]

As long as you give your all each workout the numbers are totally irrelevant

Yes, true. But we're not really talking about the same thing and that's fine. There are different ways to achieve goals.

DAS

[Wiggs]

Although your muscles can't count, your mind can and doing so is the way to "progress." That's a key that many forget -- in order to improve, you have to train a little harder each time. What does that mean? Could mean more reps in the same time. Could mean heavier weight with the same form. Could me same weight with stricter form. Could be a change same weight and form with less time between sets.

Basically, counting and training in a strategic way like this gives you a marker to improve against.

DAS

DAS do you have any more of those DVDs?  I'd love to purchase one. Also could I private message you for any Vince related training, or nutrition-related questions?

[SAF]

I'm not sure if I have any of those DVDs around, but the best one to actually get is from Robert Torres, who has a DVD that has Vince actually training. It was shot around the same time I was there. It's extremely useful.

As for advice, I don't do much of that because once I get on the topic of Vince, I could literally go on for hours and that is time-consuming. There's a lot more to what he did than just the set-and-rep schemes.

DAS

[pamith]

What have we learned about natural training since the 60s and 70s? Even the enhanced competitors I see at shows look worse than ever. It's all about big ugly muscle these days.

Brutal if true

[Donny]

"Training harder" is a bit off the mark but the gist of your post rings true.

You should train reasonably "hard" all the time.  Then as you gain strength, increase the resistance and/or reps.

A beginner can train just as "hard" as an advanced person but the advanced is stronger and more muscular.

Progression is the key to gains unless you are a drug monkey.

There are many ways to do it.

The double progression method is a tried and true one.

https://legionathletics.com/double-progression/

Nowadays, drugs are so commonly used to quickly improve that people don't have the patience to slowly gain strength and muscle in the old ways.

If you are past the beginner stage you might increase your max bench press only 10-20lbs in a year training natty but 50-100 lbs or more using drugs.

Anyone taking d-bol sees their bench go up 50lbs in a couple weeks.  This has removed the need to really know how to train in a sophisticated way to produce gains.

Yeah..even people like Larry Scott left Vinceīs Gym & some others who after leaving were in the Mr O.
Goldīs was the real Mecca for the Mr O or any other big contest. Drugs & Basic volume workouts nothing more.
People rant on about Vince Gironda  "the Iron Guru" like he was a God but truth is after he lost his Gym he turned to Vodka.

[SAF]

Gironda didn't lose his gym -- it remained open into the 1990s.

DAS

[Donny]

Gironda didn't lose his gym -- it remained open into the 1990s.

DAS

OK i will say he "lost" his livelihood to more modern Gyms, times changed & Gironda went into depression & vodka (or so is told)

[SAF]

It's true that Gold's Gym became the mecca of bodybuilding, then World Gym for a time. But Vince's Gym was, comparatively, a tiny place. It was never going to be some big place that could hold dozens of people at a time.

Also, it was in North Hollywood, close to Universal Studios. In the 1970s, it was quite the place for the movie/TV industries with guys like Erik Estrada being staples there. Vince also didn't care to follow the norm -- he just cared about having a gym and training people.

By all accounts, keeping a gym over for 50 years is better than what happens with most gyms. How long does the average "boutique" gym last -- 5 years, tops?

DAS

[Donny]

It's true that Gold's Gym became the mecca of bodybuilding, then World Gym for a time. But Vince's Gym was, comparatively, a tiny place. It was never going to be some big place that could hold dozens of people at a time.

Also, it was in North Hollywood, close to Universal Studios. In the 1970s, it was quite the place for the movie/TV industries with guys like Erik Estrada being staples there. Vince also didn't care to follow the norm -- he just cared about having a gym and training people.

By all accounts, keeping a gym over for 50 years is better than what happens with most gyms. How long does the average "boutique" gym last -- 5 years, tops?

DAS

Yes & he went out of business, truth be be told he probably didnīt have what it takes to run a large Gym or multiple Gyms anyway.

Also where were all his big movie stars when he hit rock bottom?

[SAF]

I guess you're just saying stuff? By the 1990s he was well into his 70s (he died in 1997, just shy of his 80th birthday). The place operated for 50 years. I suspect it was time to close up.

And, correct, he wasn't suited to run a chain of gyms -- that wasn't his thing. He had a gym -- Vince's Gym -- and that was it.

Remember, people are still talking about him today. He's been dead for almost 20 years. Who else are they talking about?

DAS

[Donny]

I guess you're just saying stuff? By the 1990s he was well into his 70s (he died in 1997, just shy of his 80th birthday). The place operated for 50 years. I suspect it was time to close up.

And, correct, he wasn't suited to run a chain of gyms -- that wasn't his thing. He had a gym -- Vince's Gym -- and that was it.

Remember, people are still talking about him today. He's been dead for almost 20 years. Who else are they talking about?

DAS

donīt get so butt hurt because your "Iron Guru" wasnīt what you thought, sometimes itīs painful to find out they were mere mortals like you & me.

Hitler died in 1945 & people still talk about him...who cares?

[SAF]

donīt get so butt hurt because your "Iron Guru" wasnīt what you thought, sometimes itīs painful to find out they were mere mortals like you & me.

Hitler died in 1945 & people still talk about him...who cares?

Butt hurt?!?! I don't even care. I commented for clarification.

But in terms of being butt hurt, you might want to take a good long look in the mirror. Is there perhaps envy that certain people in the industry still get talked about even long after their death, but some angry-at-the-world, lives-in-his-parent's-basement, misinformed troll on a bodybuilding forum with 15,000+ posts isn't even noticed in current day? Your envy and anger are obvious.

DAS

[Donny]

Butt hurt?!?! I don't even care. I commented for clarification.

But in terms of being butt hurt, you might want to take a good long look in the mirror. Is there perhaps envy that certain people in the industry still get talked about even long after their death, but some angry-at-the-world, lives-in-his-parent's-basement, misinformed troll on a bodybuilding forum with 15,000+ posts isn't even noticed in current day? Your envy and anger are obvious.

DAS

OK i will phrase it so itīs easier for you...youīre upset.
Being polite 

[SAF]

OK i will phrase it so itīs easier for you...youīre upset.
Being polite 

Ha! You missed the title of this thread -- Vince was "an asshole." In many ways, true. I experienced it firsthand -- but I easily tolerate assholes, at least if they have something relevant to say, which he did. 15,000+ posts that are irrelevant? That must hurt...

DAS

[IroNat]

Nowadays, with the popularity of training gurus and fitness influencers, if Gironda was around (and healthy), he might be really popular and make serious money with social media.

He wouldn't even need a gym.

Imagine Gironda having a Youtube channel and posting training and nutrition videos?

One thing I'm quite amazed about Gironda is how on target he was about many nutritional and health concepts, and this was back in the 1950s and 60s.

Gironda embraced the keto diet, had accurate views on cholesterol, etc.

[Donny]

Ha! You missed the title of this thread -- Vince was "an asshole." In many ways, true. I experienced it firsthand -- but I easily tolerate assholes, at least if they have something relevant to say, which he did. 15,000+ posts that are irrelevant? That must hurt...

DAS

OK so he was an asshole who treated you like an asshole

[SAF]

Nowadays, with the popularity of training gurus and fitness influencers, if Gironda was around (and healthy), he might be really popular and make serious money with social media.

He wouldn't even need a gym.

Imagine Gironda having a Youtube channel and posting training and nutrition videos?

Actually, Gironda recognized that before he died. The internet really took off in 1995. He died in 1997. I read an interview somewhere -- can't remember where right now -- where he was talking about the opportunity to get his courses out on the internet.

The thing that still astounds me is that Gironda's name is still brought up. As mentioned, I created some DVDs in the early 2000s to keep information alive. I figured it might trickle away. But to this day, his name is brought up over and over again -- along with his ideas.

So, yes, the internet would've been a good place for him.

DAS

[Donny]

Nowadays, with the popularity of training gurus and fitness influencers, if Gironda was around (and healthy), he might be really popular and make serious money with social media.

He wouldn't even need a gym.

Imagine Gironda having a Youtube channel and posting training and nutrition videos?

 

One thing I'm quite amazed about Gironda is how on target he was about many nutritional and health concepts, and this was back in the 1950s and 60s.

Gironda embraced the keto diet, had accurate views on cholesterol, etc.

Thereīs actually a lot of people on youtube who trained with Vince or claimed to have ..even one here i watched from a German guy.
None are really popular amongst young gym goers.
Truth be told his exercises wouldnīt be showed in any Gyms.
No one cares about his V-Bar dips or press to neck

[Donny]

Not just talking about Vince here because Weider was just the same, "Trainer of champions". His training principles..etc.
Bill pearl said to me just find out what works for you but if you want to press 300 Lbs you have to Bench simple as that.
he never once said buy my books or do what i say.
I am no fan of these so called "Gurus"

[SweetDaddySiki]

He's been dead for almost 20 years. Who else are they talking about?

DAS

20 years? You said he died in 1997. This is 2024! Let's see: 2024-1997=27. What? Steroid's make you can't do math??  I'm playing with you.  :-) 

[SAF]

20 years? You said he died in 1997. This is 2024! Let's see: 2024-1997=27. What? Steroid's make you can't do math??  I'm playing with you.  :-)

Ha, true! It's been almost 30 years! Imagine that -- and people are still asking.

Doug

[MajorDomo]

I guess you're just saying stuff? By the 1990s he was well into his 70s (he died in 1997, just shy of his 80th birthday). The place operated for 50 years. I suspect it was time to close up.

And, correct, he wasn't suited to run a chain of gyms -- that wasn't his thing. He had a gym -- Vince's Gym -- and that was it.

Remember, people are still talking about him today. He's been dead for almost 20 years. Who else are they talking about?

DAS

Arnold and the 1980 Olympia, haha

[SAF]

Arnold and the 1980 Olympia, haha

It's the contest that keeps on going and going.

Funny thing is, people don't talk about other controversial contests as much, though 1981 gets brought up.

But in 2001, Jay Cutler clearly, Clearly, CLEARLY beat Ronnie Coleman. I was in the sixth row, dead center. I even knew one of the judges really well who told me after prejudging that Coleman lost. But of course, the "finals" happened and someone the scores all got juggled around and Coleman came out on top.

These contests have rarely been fair.

DAS

[Taffin]

Actually, Gironda recognized that before he died. The internet really took off in 1995. He died in 1997. I read an interview somewhere -- can't remember where right now -- where he was talking about the opportunity to get his courses out on the internet.

The thing that still astounds me is that Gironda's name is still brought up. As mentioned, I created some DVDs in the early 2000s to keep information alive. I figured it might trickle away. But to this day, his name is brought up over and over again -- along with his ideas.

So, yes, the internet would've been a good place for him.

DAS

DVDS??

[SAF]

DVDS??

Yes, those round shiny things. I had two commercially available DVDs with the exercises on them.

DAS