Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce

[sculpture]

 No. Monster bullshit. If anything, Dorian has comparable upper back details to Ronnie, when they're both around 250+ lbs, with the added bonus that Dorian has muh greater thickness on his middle back and dryer and more striated lower back.

  As for the calves overpowering his quads, I can assure you that Ronnie's quads overpower his calves to a much, much greater degree. This discrepancy is already evident when they're both at their best, at around 250+ lbs, and because a severe lower back liability when Ronnie is 280+ lbs. Dorian's calves are of appropriate size for his quds. But Ronnie's quads are way, way, way too big for his calves. If we're talking about 2003, then Ronnie's calve mass would have to be at least 50% bigger for him to have even the proportions he had in 1998 - and he was already inferior to Dorian bak then!

  Dorian has poor upper back details? I don't think so! He matches Ronnie when they're both at 250+ lbs and far, far surpasses him when Ronnie balloones to 280+ lbs. And he has superior a superior christmas-tree, even when Ronnie is 30 lbs heavier! Check out...

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Anyone will struggle to decipher this effluent.

Way to go SUCKY for posting the same ronnie hands on ass pic for the millionth time.

[suckmymuscle]

"Utter nonsense", then he posts these pics in which Coleman's as good or better, with a huge size advantage SUCKY has never comprended and never brings up!

All the rest of his babbling-"shape", "longer stretch ", etc. are just subjective matters of taste, just filler baby! Stick to reality for once:

-Coleman's very close on cuts, not a huge difference.
-Coleman's waaaay ahead on size - anyone with half a brain can figure out that you don't get to 23" arms cold on just biceps!

SUCKY =DUH!

  Ok, Poop, here's a lesson in bodybuilding for you. As you can see from the comparison of these to pics, Dorian's triceps is: longer, inserts lower in the tendom, has comparable striations and is in balance with the rest of his arm. Ronnie's outer triceps musle belly is short, has poor shape and does not have any edge in separations over Dorian's. Now, go do your homework and then report to me latter.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[sculpture]

Cuts - draw
Size - ronnie
Long head - dorian
Outer head - ronnie
Shape - ronnie

Ronnie> dorian

[suckmymuscle]

Anyone will struggle to decipher this effluent.

Way to go SUCKY for posting the same ronnie hands on ass pic for the millionth time.

  You delude yourself, like a woman in love. There's absolutely no back details on that pic of Ronnie I posted. And on the other three pics, where Dorian is around 250+ lbs, he has comparable upper back details to Ronnie and better upper back details than Ronnie at his 280+ lbs form. Go get your eyes checked, girl!

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[sculpture]

Why dont we look at a pic where ronnie is actually flexing for once sucky?

Ronnie 98, less than 250lbs and blowing dorian out the water in upper back detail

[img]

[pumpster]

Quote from: NarcissisticDeity on Today at 04:49:43 PM
Wow 17" huh? please share with the board when you personally measured Dorian's arms? and is that by the way Dorian at his best?    yeah I thought so , does this look like a 17" arm? you fear posting good pictures of Yates for a reason.


I am sorry to tell you mate...but in all these pics you've just posted, Dorian doesn't look impressive at all, specially when compared to Ronnie. Dorian's upper body just wasn't meant for bodybuilding.

This sounds remarkably like Sergio's "He has no arms & the belly of a cow"..

hahahahahahahahahahahhahahahaahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahaahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaah

[pumpster]

here's a lesson in bodybuilding for you. As you can see from the comparison of these to pics, Dorian's triceps is: longer, inserts lower in the tendom, has comparable striations and is in balance with the rest of his arm. Ronnie's outer triceps musle belly is short, has poor shape and does not have any edge in separations over Dorian's.

SUCKY STILL NOT GETTING IT...THIS WILL BE MY FIRST & LAST ANATOMY LESSON FOR THE DUMBASS...

-Shape is subjective, no one but you and maybe ND thinks Yates has any shape advantage, nor does anyone think Coleman has poor shape in having arguably the best arms in BB history.

-"Longer" triceps? NO ONE but you even knows what this means, and it's definitely not essential whatever it is, except to you and your imagination!

-Yates' forte is his medial and lateral tri heads, which is why all he's got is that one side-shot - still waiting 100 pages later for any shot of Yates hitting an overhead shot showing any size! WTF is it? It doesn't exist because his long triceps head doesn't have much size-he is deficient in the part of the triceps responsible for the bulk of triceps size, which you didn't know. This is most evident in overhead shots that you've never been able to come up with!

-Here's Yates' overhead shot, showing medicore long head size. Compare that with Coleman's overhead..

-Coleman OVERWHELMS him on triceps size because the long head is much larger than Yates, who doesn't have much size there. Repeat: you don't get to 23" arms cold with just biceps-have you figured that out yet?

[NarcissisticDeity]

Welcome to what we've been attempting to get across for quite some time.

It just never sinks in unfortunatly.

Example - its been shown that dorian upper back detail isn't on par with say flex or ronnie. When someone mentions that his detail is "average", ND literally takes it at face value, not considering for one minute that it might actually be in reference to his detail relative to ronnie.

Example 2 - when someone says "invisible biceps", again ND thinks we mean that literally.

Example 3 - "17 inch arms". No one truly believes his arms are this size, members are being sarcastic and humourous here yet ND doesnt quite get it.

I've only participated in this thread intermittently yet all these posts by ND conjure up a certain sense of de ja vu.

ND- after 250 pages you're still spouting the exact same points.

You've been attempting to deny Dorian's greatness and you've failed , you may not like his physique but his record speaks for itself. so while you and the rest of the Coleman fans don't get it , it doesn't change facts.

1) its obviously not been shown that Dorian's upper back isn't on par with Flex or Ronnie thats fantasy , Dorian's back at his best was lacking in nothing , seriously nothing , its among the widest , thickest , detailed , seperated , striated , couple that with density & dryness depth and that equals the best .

So you make the claim that Flex & Ronnie both top Dorian in ' upper back detail "  lets see Dorian traps are extremly thick & dense and very seperated  , thicker than both bar far and just as clearly detailed & defined , now look at this pic , please show me how Ronnie's traps & teres major , infraspinatus , rhomboids, have ' more detail ' than Yates , it cannot be done. both are showing great detail & seperation , in this particular shot Dorian has the obvious edge in thickness & density and width oh and dryness and superior erector spinae , but in all fairness to Ronnie , he's not at his best but while his back improved of terms , width and thickness , his detail & seperation have always been great .

Same pic of Yates with Flex neither have upper back detail that Dorian isn't showing to say otherwise in all honesty is just nonsense .

[pumpster]

You've been attempting to deny Dorian's greatness and you've failed , you may not like his physique but his record speaks for itself.

Spoken like a true company man AKA Iron Age/Flex guy who can be counted on to toe the line. Do NOT expect the truth from this clone, he will go on and on trying to justify Yates' "greatness" because Weider decided to favor him in various contests.

There you have the truth that will never be admitted.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Spoken like a true company man AKA Iron Age/Flex guy who can be counted on to toe the line. Do NOT expect the truth from this clone, he will go on and on trying to justify Yates' "greatness" because Weider decided to favor him in various contests.

There you have the truth that will never be admitted.

Seriously all you offer up is conspricy theories but when called out to produce evidence you always run . if you have any evidence that Weider told 9 judges to handpick Dorian over everyone else please share it if not then why do you insist on spouting this nonsense? and using your theory the Weiders handpicked Ronnie as well over Flex , it works both ways sport .

[pumpster]

Seriously all you offer up is conspricy theories but when called out to produce evidence you always run . if you have any evidence that Weider told 9 judges to handpick Dorian over everyone else please share it if not then why do you insist on spouting this nonsense?

200 pages later I'm still waiting for your explanation for Columbu & Dickerson victories, when you've agreed that neither was ever the world's best-built man while offering zero explanation for it.

As I've mentioned many times, victories like this led to the departure or retirement of most of Weider's top guys in the late 70s and early 80s. They agreed with my assessment, which jives with Oliva's, and left.

Still waiting..go ahead..

[NarcissisticDeity]

200 pages later I'm still waiting for your explanation for Columbu & Dickerson victories, when you've agreed that neither was ever the world's best-built man while offering zero explanation for it.

As I've mentioned many times, victories like this led to the departure or retirement of most of Weider's top guys in the late 70s and early 80s. They agreed with my assessment, which jives with Oliva's, and left.

Still waiting..go ahead..

See you base your opinions on a few pictures and hopefully some compressed video and thats unwise , do I personally think Franco should have won? or Dickerson . no but I wasn't there and neither were you , so what the hell do I know? ( or you ) the judges picked who they thought was the best man , and so you know if it was close or not? in 1982 Chris didn't get straight firsts , he beat Zane by 18 points , Zane was off from previous contests so Dickerson may have not been the best ever but like Samir in 83 he was that day .

Same with Franco in 81 , I personally think Padilla is just so much better but to the ones that matter he didn't apparently , like Shawn Perine said 81 was a lot more controversial tha 80 !! but thats the way these things work sometime , perfect example 01 Olympia Cutler wins both the muscularity & symmetry round and loses the whole contest to Ronnie by 4 points , now lets say they Weiders did get to the judges on those occasions in 76/80/81/82 they certainly did in 2001 as well , so lets say you are right it worked in Ronnie's favor so you certainly have no place to complain about it because that would be hypocritical

And Sergio left because he felt he was getting the shaft but Joe but you ever stop to think that maybe Arnold was simply better on those occasions Sergio lost to him? I know 72 was controversial in some pics I think Oliva won outright and others Arnold did , but I wasn't there I don't know . Sergio was like Flex Wheeler he relied on his genetics a lot and some times that comes back to bite you on the ass , Sergio I believe actually bitched about his placings in 84/85 and believe me both were gifts in my opinion , so that right there give an indication that he may not have always been honest with himself .

but in the end lets say you are right you have absolutely NO cause to complain about it when it clearly worked in Ronnie's favor a few times.

[pumpster]

do I personally think Franco should have won? or Dickerson . no but I wasn't there and neither were you , so what the hell do I know? ( or you ) the judges picked who they thought was the best man , and so you know if it was close or not?

Basically it's inexplicable and you have no answers. What this suggests is a high likelihood is that some of the decisions were fixed.

Same thing with Wheeler-at his best better than either Haney or Yates, and no Olympias. Absurd.

[NeoSeminole]

Front Double Biceps



Ronnie >>> Dorian

Front Lat Spread



Tie

Side Triceps



Dorian >>> Ronnie

Side Chest



Ronnie >>> Dorian

Rear Double Biceps



Ronnie >>> Dorian

Rear Lat Spread



Ronnie >>> Dorian

Abs and Thighs



Dorian >>> Ronnie

Most Muscular



Ronnie >>> Dorian

Dorian: 3
Ronnie: 6

[Hulkster]

he still would beat Ronnie in the sidechest

uh. no

not to mention overall muscle density & muscular balance

you keep mention this as something concrete, even when shots are posted of Ronnie that KILL dorian.  It is a meaningless term because the shot of Ronnie's front double bi STILL blows away any that have ever been seen of dorian.


this shot is actually biased towards Yates because it does not show how poor his quads look from the front compared to Ronnie.  Even with just the upper half, look how much more detailed Ronnie's chest and arms are. Dorian had great lats, and little else in the pose.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Basically it's inexplicable and you have no answers. What this suggests is a high likelihood is that some of the decisions were fixed.

Same thing with Wheeler-at his best better than either Haney or Yates, and no Olympias. Absurd.

No I have answers , two of them either the contests were 100% legit and the people got the places they deserved or they were 100% bull and the Weiders handpicked who they wanted to win , in either case you can't complain , because if it worked in Dorian's favor it certainly worked in Ronnie's on more than one occasion as well , you can't have it both ways , complain about the Weiders choosing Dorian and then turn a blind eye when that favors Ronnie .

And Flex at his best was better than Yates I agree , but when they faced each other was Flex at his best? no he was off in 93 a victim of peaking to many times but you can't fault him because he was winning and making money , but did he look like he did at the Olympia in 93 as he did at the ASC no if he did I think he would have won.

[Hulkster]

author=NeoSeminole link=topic=69359.msg1204151#msg1204151 date=1153205383]
  Utter nonsense. Dorian destroys Ronnie, on the side triceps shot in every way that counts: his triceps stretch longer and inserts lower on the tendom, it has a triangular shape that Ronnie can't match and the three heads are more balanced. At their best, Dorian destroys Ronnie. No contest.

No:


Flex's triceps compare favorably with Yates (probably even better):



and Ronnie's triceps compare favorably to Flex's:



Therefore, Ronnie's side tri would stand up very well against Dorian.

The thing that all of these dorian/ronnie tricep comparisons are missing is the size factor.

ie. a close up shot of Yates doing a side tri makes hims arms look HUGE.

However, we can all see that relative to other pros, his arms are not huge:


(this can be seen on all the videos that were ignored also)

and this would definately play a role in seeing Yates standing beside Ronnie.

the same can be said for waist size- peak Ronnie has a way smaller waist than peak Dorian, and all of these comparisons do not reflect this.








  

[NarcissisticDeity]

uh. no


you keep mention this as something concrete, even when shots are posted of Ronnie that KILL dorian.  It is a meaningless term because the shot of Ronnie's front double bi STILL blows away any that have ever been seen of dorian
this shot is actually biased towards Yates because it does not show how poor his quads look from the front compared to Ronnie.  Even with just the upper half, look how much more detailed Ronnie's chest and arms are. Dorian had great lats, and little else in the pose.

Using the official I.F.B.B. judging criteria Dorian simply wins almost every mandatory with the front & rear double biceps being debateable , you tend to focus on what you consider Ronnie's strenghts and gloss over everything else lol thank god you're not a judge lol here follow these and aplogize when you're done .

When assessing a competitor’s physique, a judge should follow a
routine procedure which will allow a comprehensive assessment of
the physique as a whole. During the comparisons of the
compulsory poses, the judge should first look at the primary
muscle group being displayed. The judge should then survey the
whole physique, starting from the head, and looking at every part
of the physique in a downward sequence, beginning with general
impressions, and looking for muscular bulk, balanced
development, muscular density and definition. The downward
survey should take in the head, neck, shoulders, chest, all of the
arm muscles, front of the trunk for pectorals, pec-delt tie-in,
abdominals, waist, thighs, legs, calves and feet. The same
procedure for back poses will also take in the upper and lower
trapezius, teres and infraspinatus, erector spinae, the gluteus
group, the leg biceps group at the back of the thighs, calves, and
feet. A detailed assessment of the various muscle groups should
be made during the comparisons, at which time it helps the judge
to compare muscle shape, density, and definition while still
bearing in mind the competitor’s overall balanced development.
The comparisons of the compulsory poses cannot be overemphasized
as these comparisons will help the judge to decide
which competitor has the superior physique from the standpoint of
muscular bulk, balanced development, muscular density and
definition.

Front Double Biceps (see Figure 1)
Standing face front to the judges, with the legs and feet
in-line and a short distance apart, the competitor will raise
both arms to shoulder level and bend them at the elbows.
The hands should be clenched and turned down so as to
cause a contraction of the biceps and forearm muscles,
which are the main muscle groups that are to be assessed
in this pose. In addition, the competitor should attempt
to contract as many other muscles as possible as the
judges will be surveying the whole physique, from head to
toe.

The judge will first survey the biceps muscles looking for a
full, peaked development of the muscle, noting whether
or not there is a defined split between the anterior and
posterior sections of the biceps, and will continue the
head-to-toe survey by observing the development of the
forearms, deltoids, pectorals, pec-delt tie-ins, abdominals,
thighs, and calves. The judge will also look for muscle
density, definition, and overall balance.

Front Lat Spread (see Figure 2)
Standing face front to the judges, with the legs and feet a
short distance apart, the competitor will place the open
hands, or clenched fists, against, or gripping, the lower
waist or obliques and will expand the latissimus muscles.
At the same time, the competitor should attempt to
contract as many other frontal muscles as possible. It
shall be strictly forbidden for the competitor to pull up on
the posing trunks so as to show the top inside of the
quadriceps.
The judge should first see whether the competitor can
show a good spread of the latissimus muscles, thereby
creating a V-shaped torso. Then the judge should
continue with the head-to-foot survey, noting first the
general aspectsof the physique and then concentrating on
the more detailed aspects of the various muscle groups.

3. Side Chest (see Figure 3)
The competitor may choose either side for this pose, in
order to display the “better” arm. He will stand with his
left or right side towards the judges and will bend the arm
nearest the judges to a right-angle position, with the fist
clenched and, with the other hand, will grasp the wrist.
The leg nearest the judges will be bent at the knee and
will rest on the toes. The competitor will then expand the
chest and by upward pressure of the front bent arm and
contract the biceps as much as possible. He will also
contract the thigh muscles, in particular, the biceps
femoris group, and by downward pressure on his toes,
will display the contracted calf muscles.
The judge will pay particular attention to the pectoral
muscles and the arch of the rib cage, the biceps, the leg
biceps and the calves, and will conclude with the head-tofoot
examination. In this pose the judge will be able to
survey the thigh and calf muscles in profile, which will
help in grading their comparative development more
accurately.

Back Double Biceps (see Figure 4)
Standing with his back to the judges, the competitor will
bend the arms and wrists as in the Front Double Biceps
pose, and will place one foot back, resting on the toes.
He will then contract the arm muscles as well as the
muscles of the shoulders, upper and lower back, thigh
and calf muscles.

The judge will first survey the arm muscles and then do
the head-to-foot survey, during which there are more
muscle groups to look at than in all of the other poses.
This includes the neck, deltoids, biceps, triceps, forearm,
trapezius, teres, infraspinatus, erector spinae, external
obliques, latissimus dorsi, gluteus, thigh biceps, and
calves. This pose, probably more than the others, will
help the judge to determine the quality of the
competitor’s muscle density, definition, and overall
balance.

Back Lat Spread (see Figure 5)
Standing with his back to the judges, the competitor will
place his hands on his waist with his elbows kept wide,
one foot back and resting on the toes. He will then
contract the latissimus dorsi as wide as possible and
display a calf contraction by pressing downward on the
rear toes. The competitor should make an effort to
display the opposite calf to that which was displayed
during the back double biceps pose so the the judge may
assess both calf muscle equally. It shall be strictly
forbidden for the competitor to pull up on the posing
trunks so as to show the gluteus maximus muscles.
The judge will look for a good spread of the latissimus
dorsi, but also for good muscle density and will again
conclude with the head-to-foot survey.

6. Side Triceps (see Figure 6)
The competitor may choose either side for this pose so as
to show the “better” arm. He will stand with his left or
right side towards the judges and will place both arms
behind his back, either linking his fingers or grasping the
front arm by the wrist with his rear hand. The leg nearest
the judges will be bent at the knee and the foot will rest
flat on the floor. The competitor will exert pressure
against his front arm, thereby causing the triceps muscle
to contract. He will also raise the chest and contract the
abdominal muscles as well as the thigh and calf muscles.
The judge will first survey the triceps muscles, and
conclude with the head-to-foot examination. In this pose,
the judge will be able to survey the thigh and calf muscles
in profile, which will help in grading their comparative
development more accurately.

Abdominals and Thighs (see Figure 7)
Standing face front to the judges, the competitor will
place both arms behind the head and will place one leg
forward. He will then contract the abdominal muscles by
55
“crunching” the trunk slightly forward. At the same time,
he will contract the thigh muscles of the forward leg.
The judge will survey the abdominal and thigh muscles,
and then conclude with the head-to-foot examination.

[Hulkster]

ND, you are an idiot.

All the paragraphs in the world won't do any good if the pics tell a different story:




 

[NarcissisticDeity]

Hulkster  pay carefull attention to this paragraph  


The comparisons of the compulsory poses cannot be overemphasized
as these comparisons will help the judge to decide
which competitor has the superior physique from the standpoint of
muscular bulk, balanced development, muscular density and
definition.



Ronnie at his best cannot compete with Dorian in balanced development , muscular density , in 1998 Yates would have the edge in muscular bulk by being 8 pounds heavier but in 99 that would be moot , although his dryness in 99 wasn't on par with Dorian , and one major liablity you seem to gloss over is Ronnie's lack of great calves , this hurts every single one of his mandatory poses , you cannot escape this . definition is a PUSH you heard me correctly , you can complain about Dorian's quads and I can counter with Ronnie's calves , and lower lats and whole midsection , etc .

[NarcissisticDeity]

ND, you are an idiot.

All the paragraphs in the world won't do any good if the pics tell a different story:




 

lol They do tell a different story lol that you're biased and affraid to post a great pic of Dorian out of fear of being owned and the story also tells that the pic you posted was from 1997 obviously not his best year and that you don't care about being fair or objective , it also shows that even though he had a torn bicep/tricep/quads and a gut he was still good enough that day to beat Ronnie Coleman , who was a top teir pro by then .

following the I.F.B.B. judging criteria this shot of Dorian meets their criteria better than Ronnie for the superior back double biceps shot .


Back Double Biceps (see Figure 4)
Standing with his back to the judges, the competitor will
bend the arms and wrists as in the Front Double Biceps
pose, and will place one foot back, resting on the toes.
He will then contract the arm muscles as well as the
muscles of the shoulders, upper and lower back, thigh
and calf muscles.

The judge will first survey the arm muscles and then do
the head-to-foot survey, during which there are more
muscle groups to look at than in all of the other poses.
This includes the neck, deltoids, biceps, triceps, forearm,
trapezius, teres, infraspinatus, erector spinae, external
obliques, latissimus dorsi, gluteus, thigh biceps, and
calves. This pose, probably more than the others, will
help the judge to determine the quality of the
competitor’s muscle density, definition, and overall
balance.

[NeoSeminole]

Too bad Ronnie still beats Dorian



"The judge will first survey the arm muscles and then do
the head-to-foot survey, during which there are more
muscle groups to look at than in all of the other poses.
This includes the neck, deltoids, biceps, triceps, forearm,
trapezius, teres, infraspinatus, erector spinae, external
obliques, latissimus dorsi, gluteus, thigh biceps, and
calves. This pose, probably more than the others, will
help the judge to determine the quality of the
competitor’s muscle density, definition, and overall
balance."

I find it hillarious you keep praising Dorian's "balance" yet you completely ignore his arms. For someone considered to have the greatest back of all time, his arms are mediocre for a pro bodybuilder. How you can penalize Ronnie for his calves but overlook Dorian's invisible arms is beyond me.

[pumpster]

I wonder who's walking all over the other here? 

[NarcissisticDeity]

Too bad Ronnie still beats Dorian



"The judge will first survey the arm muscles and then do
the head-to-foot survey, during which there are more
muscle groups to look at than in all of the other poses.
This includes the neck, deltoids, biceps, triceps, forearm,
trapezius, teres, infraspinatus, erector spinae, external
obliques, latissimus dorsi, gluteus, thigh biceps, and
calves. This pose, probably more than the others, will
help the judge to determine the quality of the
competitor’s muscle density, definition, and overall
balance."

I find it hillarious you keep praising Dorian's "balance" yet you completely ignore his arms. For someone considered to have the greatest back of all time, his arms are mediocre for a pro bodybuilder. How you can penalize Ronnie for his calves but overlook Dorian's invisible arms is beyond me.

Nice shot lol but a poor choice , Dorian beat that version of Ronnie lol  again the ONLY advantage Ronnie enjoys in that pic is biceps peak , are Dorian's biceps may be medicore but his triceps & forearms are world class. and medicore biceps can be hidden poor calves can be seen in every single pose from every single angle .

[NarcissisticDeity]

I wonder who's walking all over the other here? 

Dorian lol because he beat that version of Ronnie in the Olympia lol