Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce

[Big N]

Sounds good read within the pages of Flex, then you see various pics in which Yates is a solid 3rd-4th place..

I'm not saying i'm agreeing with the judges decision to let Yates win the Olympia bro. But again based on "politics" he won and like i said Yates was in his own class back then and so on

[pumpster]

This thread is supposed to look at their appearance, as opposed to the "realities" created by the politics that ND hangs on to with no small degree of desperation.

Yates is a far bigger name than deserved thanks to politics, while other guys who were better aren't accorded the same aclaim because they didn't win:

Wheeler
Lavrone
Dillet
Robinson
Fox
Padilla
Szkalak
etc.

[NarcissisticDeity]

see, you just aren't grasping this yet - yes, dorian did but NONE of them had a back, great size and great lat thickness! They all had some of these attributes but not all.

peak Ronnie did.

therefore, he would overwhelm dorian.

One Ronnie at his peak wouldn't have an advantage on Dorian in terms of thicknes & density or width in the backs , Dorian has wider thicker lats and lets entertain Ronnie could match Dorian in terms of back it would be on volume NOT density and honestly I don't think at the same weight Ronnie has an edge on width it may be the same or maybe a tad bigger for Dorian , it may appear so due to the taper , but you look at the latspreads Yates' lats take up more space , and Ronnie wouldn't ' overwhelm ' Dorian not in the least 257lbs and hard as nails he's not dominating anything , if anything it would be close , very close or perhaps like Lee Priest said Dorian would beat Ronnie easily !!

[Big N]

This thread is supposed to look at their appearance, as opposed to the "realities" created by the politics that ND hangs on to with no small degree of desperation.

Yates is a far bigger name than deserved thanks to politics, while other guys who were better aren't accorded the same aclaim because they didn't win:

Wheeler
Lavrone
Dillet
Robinson
Fox
Padilla
Szkalak
etc.

I agree with ya bro, but what i think personally things were based on poilitics. That's what i think but ya i mean those names you mentioned in the list definitely had a bigger chance or if not as much of a chance to win the olympia like Yates did. The pictures speaks for itself.....

[NarcissisticDeity]

This thread is supposed to look at their appearance, as opposed to the "realities" created by the politics that ND hangs on to with no small degree of desperation.

Yates is a far bigger name than deserved thanks to politics, while other guys who were better aren't accorded the same aclaim because they didn't win:

Wheeler
Lavrone
Dillet
Robinson
Fox
Padilla
Szkalak
etc.

Oliva Stone strikes again lol  go away and come back when you have something of value to offer

[pumpster]

I agree with ya bro, but what i think personally things were based on poilitics. That's what i think but ya i mean those names you mentioned in the list definitely had a bigger chance or if not as much of a chance to win the olympia like Yates did. The pictures speaks for itself.....

Oliva Stone strikes again lol

Notice that ND make light of this, as if it doesn't exist. Basically he's admitting either to naivete or a clear Flex mag/Iron Age bias that discredits anything he has to offer. Sadly predictable at this point. 

[Hulkster]

The pictures speaks for itself.....

and the videos.

ND does have ONE single video to support his argument.

And the only pics he has are of yates lower back and abs. wow.

and he compares these to a 2004, 300 pound Ronnie and hopes that it proves something...

Face it ND, we all admire your bias tenacity, but you have lost.

[Hulkster]

notice how ND holds Lee Preists opinion as the gospel, but ignores that of Dillett, Wheeler, Olivia and others.

[pumpster]

Why, does Priest appear unstable?

[Praetor Fenix]

See, once again, you have let ND shift the lens from 2003 Ronnie to a lighter version.

ND knows Dorian can't match 2003 Ronnie's contest-ready back.
For f*cks sake, Coleman has more width and thickness than Dorian in that pre-season black and white shot, yet Dorian doesn't have a single iota of detail in that phase!

I repeat, ND is terrified to compare Dorian to 2003 Ronnie. His defense is so transparent:
- Claim Ronnie doesn't have striated quadriceps (ignore 10+ pictures w/ striations).
- Claim Dorian has comparable back width/thickness (post a preseason Dorian shot).
- Argue forearms, calves, and dryness until he is blue in the gills.
- Ignore vascularity, striations, and separation entirely.
- Pretend he hasn't read IFBB protocol : muscle size / symmetry is 2/3 of bodybuiding.
- Pretend Dorian could win a show purely with his conditioning (LOL).
- Claim Dorian has a better taper (despite a wider waist & narrower lats / deltoids).
- Criticize Coleman's abdomen (ignore Dorian's overdeveloped obliques & comparable distension)

[Hulkster]

See, once again, you have let ND shift the lens from 2003 Ronnie to a lighter version.

ND knows Dorian can't match 2003 Ronnie's contest-ready back.
For f*cks sake, Coleman has more width and thickness than Dorian in that pre-season black and white shot, yet Dorian doesn't have a single iota of detail in that phase!

I repeat, ND is terrified to compare Dorian to 2003 Ronnie. His defense is so transparent:
- Claim Ronnie doesn't have striated quadriceps (ignore 10+ pictures w/ striations).
- Claim Dorian has comparable back width/thickness (post a preseason Dorian shot).
- Argue forearms, calves, and dryness until he is blue in the gills.
- Ignore vascularity, striations, and separation entirely.
- Pretend he hasn't read IFBB protocol : muscle size / symmetry is 2/3 of bodybuiding.
- Pretend Dorian could win a show purely with his conditioning (LOL).

I agree with you that his 2003 form would still win, but Ronnie's lighter form was much better than his 2003 form in my opinion:

[pumpster]

Compare that with the construction worker..

[Praetor Fenix]

I agree with you that his 2003 form would still win, but Ronnie's lighter form was much better than his 2003 form in my opinion:

Good point, but its substantially easier for ND to argue against Ron's lighter form.

ND's same criticism still applies (calves, forearms, his ridiculous assertion that Ron's arms overpower his deltoids) regardless of Ron's weight, yet Ronnie's dominance in other facets (namely muscularity and symmetry) are less convincing when Ronnie is at a lighter weight.

Even at a lighter weight, there is still the valid argument that Dorian's conditioning is better.
By comparing peak Dorian to 2003 Ronnie, we can comfortably, and I mean comfortably lay claim to muscle size and muscle symmetry, and remember from the standpoint of official protocol, Big Ron has already won the show.

If we stick entirely to 2003 Ron, we only have to argue one point: conditioning.
Though Yates is dry, he has nothing to show for it in terms of vascularity or striations.
Ron's chest, arms, quadriceps, hamstrings, and glutes look 100% in 2003.
ND's only argument, apart from his standard forearms/calves, would be Ron's low back dryness.

At a lighter weight, Big Ron's dominance is less clear from the standpoint of muscularity.
Why concede even a single facet to ND when we don't have to?

[NarcissisticDeity]

See, once again, you have let ND shift the lens from 2003 Ronnie to a lighter version.

ND knows Dorian can't match 2003 Ronnie's contest-ready back.
For f*cks sake, Coleman has more width and thickness than Dorian in that pre-season black and white shot, yet Dorian doesn't have a single iota of detail in that phase!

I repeat, ND is terrified to compare Dorian to 2003 Ronnie. His defense is so transparent:
- Claim Ronnie doesn't have striated quadriceps (ignore 10+ pictures w/ striations).
- Claim Dorian has comparable back width/thickness (post a preseason Dorian shot).
- Argue forearms, calves, and dryness until he is blue in the gills.
- Ignore vascularity, striations, and separation entirely.
- Pretend he hasn't read IFBB protocol : muscle size / symmetry is 2/3 of bodybuiding.
- Pretend Dorian could win a show purely with his conditioning (LOL).
- Claim Dorian has a better taper (despite a wider waist & narrower lats / deltoids).
- Criticize Coleman's abdomen (ignore Dorian's overdeveloped obliques & comparable distension)

You're not even worth responding , especially after you tried to claim Ronnie from the 2003 Olympia had a better ab-thigh shot than Dorian , you've exposed yourself as just another delusional fan

Ronnie from the 2003 doesn't have clearly defined striations in his quads I posted a picture from 1996 showing him with them and 2003 without , keep clinging to that idea

Dorian does have a comprable back to any version of Ronnie , comprable in terms of width , thickness , detail , seperation and exceeds Ronnie in density !!

I don't ignore striations I just think its laughable you're using this as en edge , seperation is something Dorian didn't lack perhaps with the exception of his upperquads , Ronnie lack seperation in his entire lower-legs !! and midsection , and in his whole back in 2003 !! vasculairty  

I've argued that Ronnie doesn't have as good a balance & proportion when compared to Dorian , I've proved this with pictures reguardless if you don'r admit it !!

You've said the IFBB judges cannout do as they please and must follow protocol , I've proven you wrong on this as well , especially when the judges were told to mark down athletes with distended stomachs and they clearly ignored because look at the top 3 at the 2005 Mr Olympia all had guts  

Dorian wouldn't win any show purely based on conditioning couple that with his other attributes and he won 15 out of 17 contests

I never claimed Dorian had a better taper than peak Ronnie , just Ronnie 2003 and I stand by that statement , 2003 Ronnie's superior taper was M.I.A his waist & obliques where fuggin huge and Dorian at his peak could at least match or is even slightly better taper than Ronnie 2003 !!

I've critisized Ronnie's abdomen which is by far the BIGGEST of any Mr Olympia winner ever , I was crtitsizing Dorian's wide waist & thick obliques back in 1993 and felt Flex should have beat him soley based on that , so once again you're wrong on that account and not only I have critisized Ronnie's gut , so has Levrone and the I.F.B.B who mandated an ammendment to the IFBB criteria because of it  

[Hulkster]

I think Ronnie's muscularity is much better at a lighter bodyweight because of the detail and shape..


1999..


2003.

Ronnie was bigger, but not better.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Good point, but its substantially easier for ND to argue against Ron's lighter form.

ND's same criticism still applies (calves, forearms, his ridiculous assertion that Ron's arms overpower his deltoids) regardless of Ron's weight, yet Ronnie's dominance in other facets (namely muscularity and symmetry) are less convincing when Ronnie is at a lighter weight.

Even at a lighter weight, there is still the valid argument that Dorian's conditioning is better.
By comparing peak Dorian to 2003 Ronnie, we can comfortably, and I mean comfortably lay claim to muscle size and muscle symmetry, and remember from the standpoint of official protocol, Big Ron has already won the show.

If we stick entirely to 2003 Ron, we only have to argue one point: conditioning.
Though Yates is dry, he has nothing to show for it in terms of vascularity or striations.
Ron's chest, arms, quadriceps, hamstrings, and glutes look 100% in 2003.
ND's only argument, apart from his standard forearms/calves, would be Ron's low back dryness.

At a lighter weight, Big Ron's dominance is less clear from the standpoint of muscularity.
Why concede even a single facet to ND when we don't have to?

Coleman has yet to match Dorian's combo of size & dryness he hasn't done it , he came close in 1999 but he wasn't as dry , and 2003 he had the size but he wasn't anywhere near Dorian in terms of dryness , you stand Dorian at his best next to Ronnie from 2003 he'll make Ronnie look waterlogged just like Jay did in 2001 and his size advantage becomes null & void if you don't have the dryness to compensate for it .

[natural al]

I think Ronnie's muscularity is much better at a lighter bodyweight because of the detail and shape..


1999..


2003.

Ronnie was bigger, but not better.

wow...compare the jaw lines of the two shots...ronnies chin looks about 3 times as long as it did back in the late 90's....

[pumpster]

Coleman has yet to match Dorian's combo of size & dryness he hasn't done it

Yates has never been able to combine the two, Coleman's done it many times:

As proven by videos & pics that you've ignored, Yates either comes in:

-Highly conditioned ("grainy") with tiny arms, blocky waist and an overall lack of size in various areas(video).

-Big & beefy: bearlike, to gain size (the black & white shots ND uses whenever he's compelled to prove Yates has size), in which the size is unfortunately distributed to the torso & thighs-arms stay the same = even worse imbalance!

That is the essential choice.

Here, the bear-like Yates with proportionately even smaller arms:

[NarcissisticDeity]

I think Ronnie's muscularity is much better at a lighter bodyweight because of the detail and shape..


1999..


2003.

Ronnie was bigger, but not better.

Ronnie is much better at a lighter weight becasuse his dryness is much better , he goes over his ideal bodyweight his proportions suffer , his balance suffers , his crisp muscularity suffers , his seperation suffers , this is a plain fact and his gut is absurd !! so when you or Fenix say 2003 Ronnie would beat Dorian its fantasy , pure blind hero-worshipping fantasy .

[NeoSeminole]

more comparisons

[Praetor Fenix]

You're not even worth responding , especially after you tried to claim Ronnie from the 2003 Olympia had a better ab-thigh shot than Dorian , you've exposed yourself as just another delusional fan

Ronnie has better thighs, better arms, a significantly better V-taper, and a smaller waist.
His intercostal / serratus detail is equivalent to Dorian's.
Dorian has overdeveloped obliques. Dorian has no quad sweep. X-frame anyone? Nope.
Ronnie's X-frame is significantly better.

So yes, Ronnie did have a significantly better ab-thigh shot in 2003.
You are quite clearly the delusional fan, arguing nearly 200 pages with no fact and no content.

Ronnie from the 2003 doesn't have clearly defined striations in his quads I posted a picture from 1996 showing him with them and 2003 without , keep clinging to that idea

Yes, Ronnie did. Ronnie had amazing vascularity, separation among the 3 individual muscles, unbelievable size coupled with a breath-taking sweep. And he had striations:



I'm not going to post this picture again. The striations are self-evident. Stop wasting my time.


Ronnie wasn't even flexing his quadriceps in your reference picture.
Show me any bodybuilder who has striations when they aren't flexing.
Physiology 101: Striations are the overlapping of myosin and actin filaments.
Guess what? Mysosin and actin filaments don't overlap unless the muscle is contracting!

Dorian does have a comprable back to any version of Ronnie , comprable in terms of width , thickness , detail , seperation and exceeds Ronnie in density !!

Nope. I've already established this.
Dorian's back only has comparable width and thickness in one shot, that pre-season picture.
Guess what? He has no detail or separation in that picture. Absolutely none.

The pictures you post that exhibit his detail and separation do not have nearly enough width or thickness to match Ronnie. I'm tired of this game where you use pre-season pictures to argue width/thickness yet you use contest pictures to argue detail/separation.

We are talking about ONE peak form, not a combination of Dorian's various attributes at separate stages of his preparation. Fact of that matter is, he would not have been able to retain that width and thickness in the pre-season pictures and still etch in the detail. He would have had to inevitably lose size in order to get the detail, which is a dilemma every bodybuilding faces.

I don't ignore striations I just think its laughable you're using this as en edge , seperation is something Dorian didn't lack perhaps with the exception of his upperquads , Ronnie lack seperation in his entire lower-legs !! and midsection , and in his whole back in 2003 !! vasculairty  

You do ignore striations (and you ignore Dorian's lack of striations too).
The have yet to comment on any of the prior visual evidence that clearly testifies to this fact.

The separation in Dorian's quadriceps is a joke, its nonexistent. Don't even imply for a second that Dorian's quadriceps have ANYTHING on Coleman's. I will post my exhaustive analysis of his quadriceps again, since you are clearly forgetting it and your only counter to it was "well, you forgot the sartorius" LOL!

There you go with your calves argument again ...  
Ronnie has comparable intercostal / serratus detail, this has been established already.
I'm not even going to comment on his back, you are just really desperate now I can see.

I've argued that Ronnie doesn't have as good a balance & proportion when compared to Dorian , I've proved this with pictures reguardless if you don'r admit it !!

The only thing you have proved in this thread is your f*cking idiocy and persistence.
Balance & proportion IS symmetry. Guess what:

Top To Bottom:
Ronnie < X-Frame > Dorian
Ronnie < V-Taper > Dorian
Ronnie < Delt to Waist Ratio > Dorian
Ronnie < Arms & Torso Balance > Dorian

All you have in terms of balance and proportion is calves to quadriceps. Thats it!
Ronnie absolutely, indefinitely, invariably owns Yates in each and every facet pertaining to symmetry except quad/calve. Pathetic!

Left To Right:
Ronnie < Arms > Dorian
Ronnie < Quadriceps > Dorian
Ronnie < Abdomen > Dorian
Ronnie < Back > Dorian

You've said the IFBB judges cannout do as they please and must follow protocol , I've proven you wrong on this as well , especially when the judges were told to mark down athletes with distended stomachs and they clearly ignored because look at the top 3 at the 2005 Mr Olympia all had guts  

A distended midsection only has an impact on one facet of the criteria: symmetry.
Dorian's midsection was distended as well, moreso than Coleman's:


Couple that with Dorian's overdeveloped obliques and genetically wide waist. You've got nothing.

Dorian wouldn't win any show purely based on conditioning couple that with his other attributes and he won 15 out of 17 contests

Please remind me, where was 2003 Coleman in these 15 out of 17 contests that took place before 1997! Living in the past as always.

I never claimed Dorian had a better taper than peak Ronnie , just Ronnie 2003 and I stand by that statement , 2003 Ronnie's superior taper was M.I.A his waist & obliques where fuggin huge and Dorian at his peak could at least match or is even slightly better taper than Ronnie 2003 !!

Nope. Wider shoulders + wider lats + smaller waist + smaller obliques = superior V-taper.
You are 100% wrong, as always. Coleman's taper was superior.

I've critisized Ronnie's abdomen which is by far the BIGGEST of any Mr Olympia winner ever , I was crtitsizing Dorian's wide waist & thick obliques back in 1993 and felt Flex should have beat him soley based on that , so once again you're wrong on that account and not only I have critisized Ronnie's gut , so has Levrone and the I.F.B.B who mandated an ammendment to the IFBB criteria because of it  

ROFL HE'S OBESE!

But seriously, you are wrong. Coleman's midsection was in check on stage.
Your backstage photographs are dismissable evidence, the contest takes place on-stage.
Could, you acknowledge Yates has a wide waist and thick obliques.
How the hell can you argue for a superior V-taper then he his shoulders and lats are actually MORE NARROW than Coleman?

I've never read such a flawed, inaccurate, flat out wrong analysis such as yours before in my life.

[Hulkster]

nice shot from 99.


excellent, compelling comparisons that ND will probably ignore anyway.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Ronnie has better thighs, better arms, a significantly better V-taper, and a smaller waist.
His intercostal / serratus detail is equivalent to Dorian's.
Dorian has overdeveloped obliques. Dorian has no quad sweep. X-frame anyone? Nope.
Ronnie's X-frame is significantly better.

So yes, Ronnie did have a significantly better ab-thigh shot in 2003.
You are quite clearly the delusional fan, arguing nearly 200 pages with no fact and no content.

Yes, Ronnie did. Ronnie had amazing vascularity, separation among the 3 individual muscles, unbelievable size coupled with a breath-taking sweep. And he had striations:



I'm not going to post this picture again. The striations are self-evident. Stop wasting my time.


Ronnie wasn't even flexing his quadriceps in your reference picture.
Show me any bodybuilder who has striations when they aren't flexing.
Physiology 101: Striations are the overlapping of myosin and actin filaments.
Guess what? Mysosin and actin filaments don't overlap unless the muscle is contracting!

Nope. I've already established this.
Dorian's back only has comparable width and thickness in one shot, that pre-season picture.
Guess what? He has no detail or separation in that picture. Absolutely none.

The pictures you post that exhibit his detail and separation do not have nearly enough width or thickness to match Ronnie. I'm tired of this game where you use pre-season pictures to argue width/thickness yet you use contest pictures to argue detail/separation.

We are talking about ONE peak form, not a combination of Dorian's various attributes at separate stages of his preparation. Fact of that matter is, he would not have been able to retain that width and thickness in the pre-season pictures and still etch in the detail. He would have had to inevitably lose size in order to get the detail, which is a dilemma every bodybuilding faces.

You do ignore striations (and you ignore Dorian's lack of striations too).
The have yet to comment on any of the prior visual evidence that clearly testifies to this fact.

The separation in Dorian's quadriceps is a joke, its nonexistent. Don't even imply for a second that Dorian's quadriceps have ANYTHING on Coleman's. I will post my exhaustive analysis of his quadriceps again, since you are clearly forgetting it and your only counter to it was "well, you forgot the sartorius" LOL!

There you go with your calves argument again ...  
Ronnie has comparable intercostal / serratus detail, this has been established already.
I'm not even going to comment on his back, you are just really desperate now I can see.

The only thing you have proved in this thread is your f*cking idiocy and persistence.
Balance & proportion IS symmetry. Guess what:

Top To Bottom:
Ronnie < X-Frame > Dorian
Ronnie < V-Taper > Dorian
Ronnie < Delt to Waist Ratio > Dorian
Ronnie < Arms & Torso Balance > Dorian

All you have in terms of balance and proportion is calves to quadriceps. Thats it!
Ronnie absolutely, indefinitely, invariably owns Yates in each and every facet pertaining to symmetry except quad/calve. Pathetic!

Left To Right:
Ronnie < Arms > Dorian
Ronnie < Quadriceps > Dorian
Ronnie < Abdomen > Dorian
Ronnie < Back > Dorian

A distended midsection only has an impact on one facet of the criteria: symmetry.
Dorian's midsection was distended as well, moreso than Coleman's:


Couple that with Dorian's overdeveloped obliques and genetically wide waist. You've got nothing.

Please remind me, where was 2003 Coleman in these 15 out of 17 contests that took place before 1997! Living in the past as always.

Nope. Wider shoulders + wider lats + smaller waist + smaller obliques = superior V-taper.
You are 100% wrong, as always. Coleman's taper was superior.


ROFL HE'S OBESE!

But seriously, you are wrong. Coleman's midsection was in check on stage.
Your backstage photographs are dismissable evidence, the contest takes place on-stage.
Could, you acknowledge Yates has a wide waist and thick obliques.
How the hell can you argue for a superior V-taper then he his shoulders and lats are actually MORE NARROW than Coleman?

I've never read such a flawed, inaccurate, flat out wrong analysis such as yours before in my life.

Ronnie has better thighs, better arms, a significantly better V-taper, and a smaller waist.
His intercostal / serratus detail is equivalent to Dorian's.
Dorian has overdeveloped obliques. Dorian has no quad sweep. X-frame anyone? Nope.
Ronnie's X-frame is significantly better.

Blah , blah , blah , blah, let me tell you something he had all of that in the 2001 Mr Olympia and despite having all those superior advantages and V-taper , X-frame and a smaller waist he still fucking lost the muscularity round and the symmetry round to Jay Cutler of all people !! and Jay doesn't have a taper or a back on par with Dorian and he still beat Ronnie , so it shows you that with less than perfect conditioning Ronnie is very beatable , so your whole winded speech about all of Ronnie's advantages is null & void in the face of a superior conditioned athlete who has the muscular size balance and proportion to back it up !!

[pumpster]

Blah , blah , blah , blah

Blah, blah, blah = ND witty reparte..

Like a mental patient, proving repeatedly that facts won't get in the way of more blabbering..


BTW let me say again I really love Yates' "tan"..

[NeoSeminole]