Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce

[Praetor Fenix]

Blah , blah , blah , blah, let me tell you something he had all of that in the 2001 Mr Olympia and despite having all those superior advantages and V-taper , X-frame and a smaller waist he still fucking lost the muscularity round and the symmetry round to Jay Cutler of all people !! and Jay doesn't have a taper or a back on par with Dorian and he still beat Ronnie , so it shows you that with less than perfect conditioning Ronnie is very beatable , so your whole winded speech about all of Ronnie's advantages is null & void in the face of a superior conditioned athlete who has the muscular size balance and proportion to back it up !!

No No No ... Ronnie Coleman was far, far more distended in 2001.
Coleman's quadriceps were not nearly as large either, so his quad sweep and X-frame were not on par with his 2003 rendition. He was, what, ~35lbs lighter too? with worse conditioning?
He was really spilling over in pre-judging, he was way off.

This is your lamest counter-measure yet. You pretend he was the same athlete in 2001 (completely negating my 2003 analysis) and then proceed to compare him with Jay Cutler??
God damn, let me tell you, I'm glad you're not MY defense attorney! Cluster-f*cked logic!

Dorian's weaknesses sure as hell aren't Jay Cutler's! Jay Cutler has excellent quadriceps, replete with striations, vascularity, separation, size, and an excellent sweep. Dorian had minimal separation, no vascularity, no striations, and a poor sweep.

Jay Cutler's biceps are full, round, and peaked. Dorian's ... well we don't need to go there.  

To be perfectly honest with you, Jay Cutler 2001 >>> Peak Dorian, but that is a separate debate.

You forgot to mention that Coleman won in 2003 with unanimous 1st's across the board.

[Praetor Fenix]

I MEAN C'MON ND!! LOOK AT THE DIFFERENCE!!

[NarcissisticDeity]

No No No ... Ronnie Coleman was far, far more distended in 2001.
Coleman's quadriceps were not nearly as large either, so his quad sweep and X-frame were not on par with his 2003 rendition. He was, what, ~35lbs lighter too? with worse conditioning?
He was really spilling over in pre-judging, he was way off.

This is your lamest counter-measure yet. You pretend he was the same athlete in 2001 (completely negating my 2003 analysis) and then proceed to compare him with Jay Cutler??
God damn, let me tell you, I'm glad you're not MY defense attorney! Cluster-f*cked logic!

Dorian's weaknesses sure as hell aren't Jay Cutler's! Jay Cutler has excellent quadriceps, replete with striations, vascularity, separation, size, and an excellent sweep. Dorian had minimal separation, no vascularity, no striations, and a poor sweep.

Jay Cutler's biceps are full, round, and peaked. Dorian's ... well we don't need to go there.  

To be perfectly honest with you, Jay Cutler 2001 >>> Peak Dorian, but that is a separate debate.

You forgot to mention that Coleman won in 2003 with unanimous 1st's across the board.

Oh you're fucking insane is you honestly believe Coleman's gut was more distended in 01 VS 03 , seriously dude you've got to be kidding me??? and he was NOT 35lbs lighter he was 265lbs in 01 and 03 he was 287lbs with a even more massive GUT , and his balance was at its all-time worse by far !! I'm not pretending they're the same athelete not by any stretch of the imagination , what I am pointing out that dispite not having a better

X-frame
V-taper
Striations in his chest , triceps , glutes
symmetry
back , back width , back thickness
shape
hams
quadsweap
vasculairty

he still lost the musculairty & symmetry rounds lol how could this be? dispite his less than stella conditioning surely all of his numerical advantages should have been able to stop that?  this proves to you that despite all of your magical advantages and all of Ronnie's superior parts can be overcame quite easily if he's NOT on the money condition wise , while Ronnie was better conditioned in 03 VS 01 he still wasn't in Dorian's leauge

and Dorian vs 01 Jay , thats almost as bad as saying Ronnie's gut was worse in 01 than 03

[NarcissisticDeity]

I MEAN C'MON ND!! LOOK AT THE DIFFERENCE!!

To be honest with you his conditining looks the same and he just bigger in 03

[Praetor Fenix]

  Another hallmark, of Dorian's overwhelming dominance, was the front lat spread. Ronnie never came even close to Dorian in this mandatory. At 250 lbs, Ronnie had great taper and details on his quads, but his lats simply didn't flare out like Dorian's. At 280+ lbs, Ronnie is able to match - NOT surpass - Dorian in lat width, but he has terrible taper and far less details on his quads and delts than Dorian. At their respective best bodyweights(250 lbs for Ronnie and 257 lbs for Dorian), Dorian wins all mandatories but the back double biceps and perhaps the most muscular - even though I think his most muscular is as good as Ronnie's. There goes one of the best front lat spreads ever.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

OH ... MY ... GOD

You did not just type "far less details on his quads and delts than Dorian".
How f*cking delusional are you?

* Rubs eyes * (reading again)

"far less details on his quads and delts than Dorian".
Make no mistake. Dorian's quadriceps do not hold a candle to Ronnie's.
I am simply going to copy and paste my comprehensive, exhaustive quadricep analysis.
I'm not going to waste time re-typing it againg for you blind fairies...

Dorian has NEVER had wider lats. He has shorter limbs so the flare is more exaggerated, but by no stretch of the imagination would they tape wider than Ronnie's. I know bodybuilding is all about the visual, but they wouldn't not look wider standing next to Ronnie either, not even close.
If bodybuilding was all about "filling in the space" on the front lat spread, Franco Columbo would be the all-time greatest.

AND you have the f*cking audacity to wonder aloud why I never bother to respond to your posts... They are so delusional and devoid of fact that they are more incriminating than any counter-measure I could possibly spit out. Your grossly skewed analysis only hurts your cause.

[pumpster]

Dorian has NEVER had wider lats. He has shorter limbs so the flare is more exaggerated, but by no stretch of the imagination would they tape wider than Ronnie's. I know bodybuilding is all about the visual, but they wouldn't not look wider standing next to Ronnie either, not even close.
If bodybuilding was all about "filling in the space" on the front lat spread, Franco Columbo would be the all-time greatest.

Have always said that Yates is the Columbu of the 90s - powerlifter torsos overwhelm the limbs..

Another shot of Yates' OUTSTANDING "lower" lats:

[Hulkster]

To be honest with you his conditining looks the same and he just bigger in 03

what? can't you see the damn pics?!? In the 03 shot his abs are way better, his gut looks a lot smaller, and his quads are much more defined.

ND really is as blind as a bat.

[NarcissisticDeity]

what? can't you see the damn pics?!? In the 03 shot his abs are way better, his gut looks a lot smaller, and his quads are much more defined.

ND really is as blind as a bat.

Hulkster you can't be serious? now for you to say his gut is smaller is absurd to say its a lot smaller is a complete joke , and his conditioning doesn't look like 2001 ASC so don't act like its fantastic in 03

[SteelePegasus]

Hulkster you can't be serious? now for you to say his gut is smaller is obsurd to say its a lot smaller is a complete joke , and his conditioning doesn't look like 2001 ASC so don't act like its fantastic in 03

ND there is no saving you

you are a lost cause..there is no hope for you

[NarcissisticDeity]

ND there is no saving you

you are a lost cause..there is no hope for you

save this 

[nicorulez]

ND...in all honesty man, why don't you admit you are wrong.  Dorian doesn't exactly have a small waist.  What do you think about the shot Pumpster shows above with his waist looking about as large as a mack truck.  Moreover, the man has zero arms for a Mr. Olympia.  Hell, Darrem Charles is thirty pounds lighter and kicks Dorian's ass when it comes to arms.  This debate is getting boring.  If you want to argue about Yates 1993 (and 1993 only), that would be cool.  However, after that Mr. Olympia he was one of the most over-rated and uninspiring Mr. O's in twenty years plus.  At least when you looked at Haney you knew he was the man.  Hell, Dorian looked almost pastry puff bloated from the front relaxed pose...it was only when he turned around that his superior back helped out his cause.  The man was not impressive any years except 1992/1993.  Ronnie at his worst in 2001 would have still soundly trounced Dorian at his worst (1994/1997).  At their best, it really is not even a contest....Ronnie >>>>> Dorian.  Here is a shot from 1995, which you ND stated is one of his best years.

[nicorulez]

I found a link below that Hulkster will absolutely love.  Here it goes.

http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/coleman.html

Also, here is a shot from 2000 where Ronnie was in awful shape according to ND. 

[natural al]

ND...in all honesty man, why don't you admit you are wrong.  Dorian doesn't exactly have a small waist.  What do you think about the shot Pumpster shows above with his waist looking about as large as a mack truck.  Moreover, the man has zero arms for a Mr. Olympia.  Hell, Darrem Charles is thirty pounds lighter and kicks Dorian's ass when it comes to arms.  This debate is getting boring.  If you want to argue about Yates 1993 (and 1993 only), that would be cool.  However, after that Mr. Olympia he was one of the most over-rated and uninspiring Mr. O's in twenty years plus.  At least when you looked at Haney you knew he was the man.  Hell, Dorian looked almost pastry puff bloated from the front relaxed pose...it was only when he turned around that his superior back helped out his cause.  The man was not impressive any years except 1992/1993.  Ronnie at his worst in 2001 would have still soundly trounced Dorian at his worst (1994/1997).  At their best, it really is not even a contest....Ronnie >>>>> Dorian.  Here is a shot from 1995, which you ND stated is one of his best years.

I don't really want to start arguing again but I'll say this, first off that pic is not from the 1995 Mr. O, it might be from 1995, just not from the O.  Dorian was in pretty good shape in 95..I'm just pointing this out, this thread is a mess and I don't want to fight with anyone over little things.  2nd, the comments you made about Haney.  I thought Haney was a decent Mr.O but in your post you say At least when you looked at Haney you knew he was the man, while true on most occasions alot of people thought he lost the 89 and 90 olympia to Lee Labrada or in 90 it could have been labrada or Ray...seems that there is always gonna be controverys with a multi-multi Olympia winner....Haney had Labrada, Dorian had Ray and Ronnie has Jay and in some people's minds levrone.

[NarcissisticDeity]

I found a link below that Hulkster will absolutely love.  Here it goes.

http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/coleman.html

Also, here is a shot from 2000 where Ronnie was in awful shape according to ND. 

One I didn't say he was in ' awful ' shape Kevin Levrone said he shouldn't have been Mr Olympia with a GUT

Two thats NOT a contest pic from 1995 he's guestposing

Three Dorian did indeed have a wide waist & thick obliques , however Colemans gut is worse by far and NEITHER are acceptable in a Mr Olympia winner

Four Haney had two debateble wins in 89 and 90 so he wasn't above controversy himself

[NarcissisticDeity]

Haney in 1990 at 235lbs and he was off !!

[SteelePegasus]

One I didn't say he was in ' awful ' shape Kevin Levrone said he shouldn't have been Mr Olympia with a GUT

Two thats NOT a contest pic from 1995 he's guestposing

Three Dorian did indeed have a wide waist & thick obliques , however Colemans gut is worse by far and NEITHER are acceptable in a Mr Olympia winner

Four Haney had two debateble wins in 89 and 90 so he wasn't above controversy himself

ND..you are too much

you must have a hard head or something

[NarcissisticDeity]

Dorian in 1995 Olympia

[natural al]

Haney in 1990 at 235lbs and he was off !!

Haney was terrible at that Olympia, Labrada, Ray or Mike Christian should have beaten him on that day!

[NarcissisticDeity]

ND..you are too much

you must have a hard head or something

And your who?  

[NarcissisticDeity]

Haney was terrible at that Olympia, Labrada, Ray or Mike Christian should have beaten him on that day!

Labrada was on !!

[NeoSeminole]

I will resize the pics for a more accurate comparison when I have time.

[nicorulez]

ND, I didn't say that pic was from the 2000 Mr. Olympia.  Regardless, if he guest posing, it is all the more impressive.  The man was in shape.  His taper is far superior to Yates.  Yates in 1995 was rock solid from the back.  However, from the front he still was not dominant and he still had those messed up biceps.  I agree about Haney; 1990 was a bad year.  Was that the year the Mr. Olympia was drug tested or was it 1988?  Regardless, he definitely looked better in 1991.  Thus, I guess the only undisputed Mr. Olympia in history was Chris Dickerson...ehhhrrr....n obody really.  As for Coleman, I saw the last five Mr. Olympias and although he was off in 2001/2002; he was was still better than Cutler or Levrone.  In 2003, I and others personally feel his comibination of size and conditioning have yet to be matched.  Yes, he had a gut but Dorian also had a horrendous gut for four Olympias, too.  At least when he flexed, Ronnie's gut was relatively well controlled and his overwhelming mass from front and back hid it somewhat.  Thus, although not classic bodybuilding, Ronnie is the name of the game being played today.  If they want to take it back to old school standards; Phil Heath should become the Mr. Olympia in two years time.  He is a classic bodybuilder who just needs a little more size.

[Oliver Klaushof]

You can't use those pics for comparison because they are from a multitude of years.

[NarcissisticDeity]

In 2003, I and others personally feel his comibination of size and conditioning have yet to be matched.  Yes, he had a gut but Dorian also had a horrendous gut for four Olympias, too.  At least when he flexed, Ronnie's gut was relatively well controlled and his overwhelming mass from front and back hid it somewhat.

You couldn't be anymore wrong , Dorian's gut was never as big and distended as Coleman 03 !! Ronnie's gut was never in control he has a nasty habbit of just letting it all hang loose just daring the judges to mark him down for it , the bodybuilding press has been complaining about Ronnie's gut since 2000 ! the IFBB made an advisory specifically for GUTs Coleman was on the top of that list !!

This pic is from 1995 Olympia if you don't find this impressive then thats on you.

[nicorulez]

That is his signature pose.  He never looks bad in that shot.  I am talking front relaxed and front double bi.  He is not impressive.  Yes, his gut was serious problem in 1994, 1997 and even 1996.  The man was in shape in 1995, but aesthetically he was not that great.  I agree, his abs-thigh is tight and back lat spread awesome.  However, his back double bi is hindered by his weak arms.  His glutes are not in even the same zip code as Ronnie as far as conditioning and size.  His hams are vastly inferior and his thighs are smaller and with less vasculature.  His calves are great, no question, but he was genetically gifted there.  Ronnie has him on width, mass and vascularity.  Dorian has density.  I take the former and you the later.  Nobody is wrong.  Once again, only you and a few others do not appreciate his shape in 2003.  Go back and read the mags if you care to.  They will show you that you are in a very small minority.    Regardless, I don't understand how you continue to defend Yates when his gut is easily as abhorrent and even worse as he has over-developed obliques (there is ND's fav word).  Nevertheless, you will disagree but I hope you realize that your arguments are moot.  I and the supporters of Coleman (in shape obviously) will not be swayed much like yourself.