Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce

[Hulkster]

I've posted pleanty of pics of Ronnie biceps/triceps making his delts look small

from 1995

At his peak, this did not happen. As is most of your unbalanced arguments. Maybe in 1995 Ronnie had an upper body too small for his quads etc.

But at his peak this problem was non-existant.

Yet more proof of the drastic improvements that Ronnie made that you ignore insistantly.

no delt/tri/bi imbalance here...

[Hulkster]

Ronnie's outer quads were most cetainly striated in 03.

And he was showing "feathers" as well:



I have already posted a series of shots from 2003 that clearly show that dorian's 1993 form would not be able to take it.

but of course this post was also ignored, and the only argument was:

"Ronnie in 03 was not as hard as Ronnie in 98 therefore Dorian would win"

Which of course is meaningless, because it doesn't address the issue:

Ronnie in 2003 was still good enough to beat 93 Dorian, even though 2003 was not Ronnie's best ever form.

[Hulkster]

Personally, I think Ronnie looked pretty damn good in most shots in 2003, but I do not believe it was his best ever form due to the wide obliques, large gut, and not-as-detailed-as-it-used-to-be upper back.

That being said, I think he still displays many finer details that Dorian lacked, even at his best, such as:

-biceps
-great quads
-super ripped glutes, hams, triceps

and his back was far and above the widest in the history of bodybuilding at that show.

Personally, even though I think 99 Ronnie looked better, Ronnie version 2003 would still easily take out yates.










Sorry, but I don't think that even dorian 93 could handle this.

Ronnie does not have to be at his "best ever career form" to win against Yates in my opinion.

to refresh your memory, here they are. I have not seen many 1993 Dorian shots that look like they could handle this package. (other than the lower back and ab shot of course - but even with the ab shot - look at how much better Ronnie's quads were in 2003 than Dorian's were in 1993- this counts for a good portion of the pose -just ask Dexter Jackson.

[nicorulez]

ND, once again cite some articles or reputed bodybuilding experts who claim that Ronnie's 2003 condition was atrocious.  I believe you ahve deluded yourself into believing this as fact.  The truth is that he was almost universally regarded as bringing the most conditioned, symmetrical physique ever into a show. I agree, 1999 he looked better but he was 260 or so.  In 2003, he came in at a striated 287 pounds....287!  That is insane.  To even contemplate that Dorian would win the symmetry round is ludicrous.  With what, his third good arm...please.  That is a joke, Praetor is correct that Ronnie would easily take two of the three mandates.  Moreover, except for very instances, the posing round goes to the guy in the best shape regardless of performance.  If performance was all that mattered, Vince Taylor would have won the 1991 Mr. Olympia.  Beyond that, your arguments are usually pretty well thought out.  I just don't get your reasoning to dislike Coleman so much.  You never give him credit where credit is due, yet you shower Yates with praise.  Once again, show all of us neophytes why Ronnie in 2003 was out of shape....   Not your opinion mind you, I want you to scan an article from one of the muscle rags circa 2003/early 2004 that bemoan the conditioning of the champ.  Once again, we all wait with bated breath for your retort.  I can't wait for the Peter McGough article...cough.

[natural al]

Hillarious-you want me to answer your questions, while proving over and over again you have nothnig whatever to say other than being a dink. Excellent, dude!

well I don't post pics of a guy in workout gear in the offseason that prove nothing.  I don't run around crying conspiricy whenever my arguements don't work.  I don't blame people not siding with me as them being ironagers.  Just what are your arguements?  A shitty pole that half the people that voted in were not even following bodybuilding when yates was around voted in?  Anyone can take pics of a guy totally off like dorian was in 94 and parade them around or an offseason pic or even a pic of him in 95 totally relaxed with his trophy in his hand and say he has a gut..why not post pics of him during the show?  You're arguements are half assed at best.

Ronnie was incredible, I don't think he is anymore.  Dorian was incredible but I got sick of him as well.  Who would win?  I don't think it's as clear cut as some of you guys think and I don't think you can take pics of Dorian even from 93 and say put them againts Ron in his best shape.  Different eras call for different standards, Dorian was the standard during his time as Mr. o, just like Zane was when he was Mr. o.  The standard changes.  I'd rather see guys look like they did in the early 90's as opposed to how they look now.  There's an article about Ruhl in Flex this month and it shows him in his 5th place Olympia shape.  I swear if you took him and put him on stage in 1991 he wouldn't even place, not from the shot in flex, he has no detail at all, no seperation no nothing but the guy is awsome today cause that's what the standard is.  That's why this thread is pointless, especially when a guy like you acts like a total blockhead and has done nothing but call dorian b-tier or construction worker, you really have offered nothing.  I'd say what I just typed in this one paragraph is more informative as to my opinion and why I have it than anything you've typed in the last 165 pages. 

[NarcissisticDeity]

from 1995

At his peak, this did not happen. As is most of your unbalanced arguments. Maybe in 1995 Ronnie had an upper body too small for his quads etc.

But at his peak this problem was non-existant.

Yet more proof of the drastic improvements that Ronnie made that you ignore insistantly.

no delt/tri/bi imbalance here...

Oh really no imbalance?

[NarcissisticDeity]

Look at the most muscular , his arms make his delts look small !! monster balance 

[pumpster]

Different eras call for different standards, Dorian was the standard during his time as Mr. o

You've been brainwashed or are naive or both. What you've completely neglected to mention let alone comprehend is that Yates was controversial even while winning, because some found his physique repulsive. He was the "standard" as chosen by a commercial enterprise with multiple commercial agendas that weren't necessarily consistent with choosing the best physique.

[pumpster]

Look at the most muscular , his arms make his delts look small !! monster balance

Pathetic comment from a novice. How are his delts SUPPOSED to look in that shot, exactly? DUH!

Then compare with this perennially-lame Yates MM-he has NOTHING in this and many other shots! NOT ONE EXCELLENT front MM from Yates in this thread...

[pumpster]

Enough already!  Dorian is not in Ronnie god damn league!

If you shaved five inches off his waist and grew him some arms maybe a more serious debate could be made but since that is impossible let's just agree that Ronnie owns him.

I think Matt's been quite reasonable in his assessments. I encourage him to post further to try to get through the dogma generated by blockheads.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Enough already!  Dorian is not in Ronnie god damn league!

If you shaved five inches off his waist and grew him some arms maybe a more serious debate could be made but since that is impossible let's just agree that Ronnie owns him.

lol if thats the case Ronnie needs 24" off his !! Dorian's waist may have been wide but it was never this gigantic & distended

[NarcissisticDeity]

Pathetic comment from a novice. Exactly how are his delts SUPPOSED to look in that shot, exactly? DUH!

Oh-fucking-please lol

[pumpster]

ND's favorite "rebutals":

"blah, blah, blah"

"lol if thats the case Ronnie needs..." (fill in the blanks).

"oh fucking please lol" (giggles)

[natural al]

You've been brainwashed or are naive or both. What you've completely neglected to mention let alone comprehend is that Yates was controversial even while winning, because some found his physique repulsive. He was the "standard" as chosen by a commercial enterprise with multiple commercial agendas that weren't necessarily consistent with choosing the best physique.

see there ya go...I don't agree with something you said and you call it a "conspiricy", Dorian won his first two olympias in dominating fashion but you won't admit it cause it's not what you wanted to see.  Here's a secret, the guy you want to win won't always win and it's not always a conspiricy.  No one could touch dorians combination of size and condition in his first 2 O's.  It's not being brainwashed it's called being around when it happened looking at all the pics, not jsut the ones that make Dorian look bad and making a choice on my own.  Personally I would have loved to see Shawn Ray win in 92 and Wheeler or Levrone win in 93 but it didn't happen and I didn't sulk for years about conspiricies...you're like a broken record..here do eveyone a favor, copy you're next post and then past it as you're next 10 responses cause you just say the same shit over and over again, no thinking behind it....everyone's out to push dorian,....yeah that's why he won.....good call.

BTW-I'm done for today....I gotta go cut the lawn...it's probably time you got out of your mom's basement and did something besides sit and wait for someone to post in this thread so you can come up with one of your whitty retorts like;  "it's a conspiricy"  or "you're an ironager" or "your one of ND's foot soldiers"  what do you ahve a list and just keep on recycling the same damn stuff?  Go Away.

[pumpster]

At least spell conspiracy properly dumbass.

Don't forget to get to sleep early, junior. 

[nicorulez]

ND, that kinda of looks like an old pic of Ronnie...maybe I am wrong but he appears bigger now.  Take a look at this link and this is a most muscular.  BTW, Dennis James is very impressive in the MM.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://ronniecoleman.com/images/joelobell/rchot2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://ronniecoleman.com/lobell/lobell-2000-texas-and-oklahoma-11.htm&h=238&w=250&sz=21&tbnid=ZVpO0OGRTJeFrM:&tbnh=100&tbnw=106&hl=en&start=10&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dronnie%2Bcoleman%2Bmost%2Bmuscular%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN

[NarcissisticDeity]

That gut can't be seen on-stage 

[natural al]

At least spell conspiracy properly dumbass.

Don't forget to get to sleep early, junior. 

what do ya know, I had another sec to see your whitty response, sorry didn't spell check and it's called having responsibility......kind a like you do when your mom makes you clear the table or go collect your unemployement check and pay her your months rent for using her basement...

[NarcissisticDeity]

Ronnie's outer quads were most cetainly striated in 03.

And he was showing "feathers" as well:



I have already posted a series of shots from 2003 that clearly show that dorian's 1993 form would not be able to take it.

but of course this post was also ignored, and the only argument was:

"Ronnie in 03 was not as hard as Ronnie in 98 therefore Dorian would win"

Which of course is meaningless, because it doesn't address the issue:

Ronnie in 2003 was still good enough to beat 93 Dorian, even though 2003 was not Ronnie's best ever form.

If you want to call them striations , you look at the pic from 1996 and look at his quads they have striations , does Ronnie's quad stiations from 03 look like this? I don't think so , anyway thats a moot point you're high if you think Ronnie 03 would beat Dorian seriously , whats funny is you wern't claiming this until Fenix started spouting this and then you hop on the bandwagon its all good

Coleman 2003 wasn't as hard , detailed or seperated as he was in 98 or the 2001 Arnold Classic thats not debateable he may have had an easy time with Cutler who looked flat , you'd be dreaming if you think Ronnie would beat Dorian who was a full 257lbs , detailed , seperated and hard as steel !! Dorian 93 would make Coleman looke like Cutler did in 01 , his lack of detail , hardness and seperation would be a liabilty ( like it was in 01 ) and negate the 30lb weight advantage that a good 15lbs of it was in his gut couple that with Yates have the better symmetry or balance & proportion , whatever you want to call it and posing and you have the makings of # 9 for Dorian

[NarcissisticDeity]

You lose your credibility when you say Dorian's waist was smaller than Ronnie's!  These are objective measurements ND.

No...no Fenix claimed Ronnie gut was smaller in 03 compared to Dorian in 93 lol thats laughable and I've posted numerous pics to prove otherwise , and I thought I lost my credibility a long time ago? when did I get it back?   

[natural al]

No...no Fenix claimed Ronnie gut was smaller in 03 compared to Dorian in 93 lol thats laughable and I've posted numerous pics to prove otherwise , and I thought I lost my credibility a long time ago? when did I get it back?   

if that is in fact what fenix said then he would be wrong.  Dorian didn't have a huge gut in 93 and his 94 condition seemed to ba due to a carb up problem.  I'll admit he was in bad shape at the 94 O and had a gut but he showed no signs of it in 95-that I can remember.  Dorian was sporting a gut in 97, I honestly don't remember if he was in 96 so I won't comment on that year.  If the guts are caused by massive GH usage as has been suggested I don't think people really had that figured out until Nasser exploded in 95, Nasser improved so much from 94 to 95 it was almost scary.  After that I think it was a free for all as far as GH was concerned, I think the first guy to go nuts with it was FUX and then when everyone saw how huge he was-even though he wasn't in "condition" everyone-including Dorian jumped on the bandwagon.  I think the first signs of a gut on dorian would have been 97, if he started using GH in 95 I don't think it would have caused distention that quickly to show up in 96.  Ronnie seemed to be doing fine for his first couple of Olympia's, he may have had a gut but he kept it under control for the most part and he maintained a decent level of conditioning and seperation.  Ronnie's body really seemed to show the effects of the GH iin 2001, notice the marked decline in overall seperation.  Ronnie managed to find lightning in a bottle when he hit 285 and he was in really good shape as far as conditioning goes for that bodyweight but I don't think he's gonna hit that condition again.

[suckmymuscle]

Sucky, you assclown.  Are you threatening me.  Maybe I will need to go to the FBI asshole.  Schucks like you don't even deserve to procreate and have offspring.  You are a troll to lowest denominator.  I could care less if the bodybuilder was white or black.  I call them like I see them.  I have given numerous props to Yates in his 1992/1993 form.  You are an ignorant asshole.  No shit I live in Florida; pretty big ass state.  Don't you realize you can go to jail for threatening people on internet chat boards; ever heard of the Patriot Act dipshit.  If you disagree with me fine; I have as much right to spout my opinion as a braindead jerkweed like yourself.  I could care less about Yates versus Ronnie; it is schmucks like you that I take pleasure in shooting down.  Peace jerk.

  HA HA HA! I feel sorry for you. Really. Look at how emotional you get in these debates. You claim to don't care either way, and that us Dorian supporters are idiots unworthy of a rebuttal, because, why, Ronnie is so obviously better! Yet, every 20 pages or so, throughout the thread, you post again reminding everyone that you don't care and then, with great rage, rant about how stuid or cynical we are for not acknowledging Ronnie's superiority. Yeah, ouropinions clearly don't matter to you and you're SO impartial nd objective in your assesment.

  The Patriot Act? FBI? You must be out of your mind that the FBI would lose their time with a complaint from you, or that this issue has anything to do with national security. Guess what? Bring it on. I DARE you to contact the FBI about this. It will be great fun to have them laugh in your face nd tell you, with harsher words, to get lost. Nicorulez, you are a moron.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[suckmymuscle]

THIS IS NOTHING MORE THAN A REGURGITATION OF THE WEIDER/IFBB LINE. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IS LEARNED FROM THIS. IS SUCKMYASSHOLE ALSO READY TO SERVICE BEN WEIDER?

  Is your momma now called "Ben Weider"? Anyway, you have no game, girl. The fact that you would reply, to my fair assessment of Dorian's superiority over Ronnie, with a conspiracy theory goes to show just how pathetic of a debater you are. Shocking . I think I'm done with you, since you're you have no arguments left, resorting to nothing but rants and conspiracy theories.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[suckmymuscle]

Do you think I consider the term "Starcraft nerd" perjorative? No sir!
Ultimately, it boils down to this:
- 2003 Ronnie had significantly larger muscules AND much better symmetry than Dorian.
I love how neither of you (ND or suckmymuscle) will address this point. This is empirical fact.
These two criteria account for 66% of the judging, so even if Dorian's conditioning was 100% better (which it was not), Dorian was nevertheless guaranteed to lose.

Conditioning / muscle maturity / muscle density. The remaining 33%.
This is the only point of contention remaining.

Dorian came in dry. Granted. Yet he had nothing to showcase. Exceedingly few striations, minimal vascularity, average separation. He simply did not have Ronnie's muscle maturity.

You know, the densely layered mounds of muscle ever-so-evident in Ronnie's peaked biceps (crags, peaks, fissures, it looks as though he has a bicep stacked on top of his bicep). Ronnie's multilayered chest with uniform striations, displaying thickly proportioned layers of pectoralis major. The steel cords present in his superior glutes and hamstrings.

Dorian cannot match Ronnie's glute/hamstring condition.
Dorian would exceed Ronnie's lower-back detail in 2003. Upper back is quite comparable.
Hell, I'll even give you Dorian's abdomen, despite Ron's comparable intercostal / serratus detail.

Still, Dorian has not come close to winning the show. Not by a long shot.

  No. This is exactly what you don't understand. This is exactly my point: Ronnie did NOT, at 287 lbs, have better symmetry than Dorian. Did NOT have better conditioning or separations. If we're going to ignore a MAJOR liability, like a distended belly and poor taper, than let's compare the 274 lbs Dorian from the 97 O to the 287 lbs Ronnie from 2003. I mean, if size and density is all that matters to you, than let's compare Ronnie to Dorian at his largest. Dorin was 266 lbs for the pre-judging of the 97 O nd then ballooned to 274 lbs by the night show. Let's compare that. At his 274 lbs form, Dorian was even fuller and denser than at this previous Olympias, while still maintaining his trademarked dryness and...still had a much smaller gut and far less distension than the 2003 Ronnie. You see, Dorian defeats Ronnie across all weight ranges, irrespective of the bodybuilding criteria you adopt.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[suckmymuscle]

  This thread has turned into an absolute, utter war of annihilation, between two non-negotiating armies. Thank God I'm one of the generals of the winning side!

SUCKMYMUSCLE