Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce

[Hulkster]

correction. the last photo was taken in Oct. 2000 according to Dennis James.

[NarcissisticDeity]

 Once again, you shoot yourself on the foot and then run your mouth on a marathon of bullshit. You keep arguing that a bodybuilding contest is judged on muscle size, muscle symmetry and muscle maturity. Wrong. Interestingly, you STILL haven't replied to my post, where I explin how a bodybuilding contest is judged. To recap, here are the criterias:

1. Muscularity
2. Musco-skeletal balance
3. Mandatories.

  The only place where the judging criteria, for  bodybuilding contest, encomapasses muscle size, muscle symmetry and muscle maturity, is in your hed. I've been to some 300 bodybuilding contests, amateur and pro, and I've never seen  single one that was judged by your criteria.

  I've already explained all of this before and I'm doing it all over again. The ONLY shot Ronnie hs at beating Dorian is if you match his best, 250 lbs form, the one he had at the 98 O, against Dorian's 270 lbs version from the 97 O. That's the only possibility. What advantages does the 287 lbs Ronnie, from 2003, have over Dorian besides sheer, disproportional volume? None.

  In 1998, Ronnie, at 250 lbs, had one of the best tapers, quad and delt detils ever seen on a bodybuilding stage. Superb. His 98 form is one of my favorite ever; like a larger, denser Flex Wheeler. If you match that against Dorian's 270 lbs form, then he'd have  real shot of winning. This DESPITE the fact that, at 270 lbs, Dorian takes the 250 lbs Ronnie in all the mandatory poses! Why do I think Ronnie would still win? Well, because his advantage in taper and detail would be so overwhelming.

  But this is not the case if you compare Ronnie at 280+ lbs against Dorian. Again, the best shot that the 280+ lbs Coleman would have, at defeating Shadow, would be against his sub-par 270 lbs form. Both of them hve terrible tapers at those respective weights, but Dorian is far better. AND Dorian maintains his trademanrked hardness and dryness at that weight, but...with greater fullness! But still, you could argue that the difference in size, although small, would tip the scales in Ronnie's favor and make him win. Ok.

  But there is no fucking way in hell, !ever!, that the 280+ lbs version of Ronnie would defeat the 257 lbs Dorian. NO FUCKING WAY!!! Not by bodybuilding criteria! It's like saying that a 310 lbs Roland Kickinger would defeat a 230 lbs Wheeler. Sorry, dude: not possible. The 257 lbs Dorian has great(not merely good) taper, extreme hardness, incredible etchiness, a level of detail that, although not quite as good, is very close to the 250 lbs Ronnie and superb muscular-skeletal balance, the likes of which Ronnie could only dream of!(because Roonie has a long waist, high calves, assymetrical abs, etc...).

  Now, compare how the 250 lbs and the 287 lbs Ronnie would compare to a 257 lbs Dorian, as far as muscularity, musco-skeletal balance and in the mandatories. The 287 lbs Ronnie does surpass Dorian in muscle size, but only compares to him in muscularity. And when you take into considertion that he flat out loses in balance&proportions - even you have to agree with that -, you realize the only thing left are the mandatories. The problem here is that Ronnie's distended gut becomes a major liability in ALL the mandatories, especifically: abs-and-thighs, front lat spread, side chest and rear lat spread.

  When it comes to the 250 lbs Ronnie, Dorian loses several of his advantages, but still wins out. How? The 257 lbs Dorian wins flat out in muscularity and loses in taper, but still has the best overall musco-skeletal balance. All that's left then, is the mandatories. How would the 250 lbs Ronnie fair agains the 257 lbs Dozer? Ronnie would win the front double biceps, and tie both the most muscular and back double biceps - and his despite Dorian's much, much greater thickness, width and hardness! But that's it. In all other mandatories, Dorian would simly cream Ronnie in the pooper.

  Conclusion: the largest version of Ronnie loses to the smaller version of Dorian and ties with the lrger version. The smaller version of Coleman, conversely, defeats the largest version of Dorian but still loses - even if only by points - to the smaller version of Dorian. Game over. Here are a few shots of Ronnie at his great 280+ lbs form, which clearly demonstrates how his terrible taper, lack of details, horrendous balance and overall softeness are in no way acceptable for a pro, let alone a Mr.O.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

No ........no..........Hulk ster.....this is a truly great post !!

[pumpster]

smartest thing you've said all thread

Psssst...I've been saying this all along...hahahahhahahahah ah

[NarcissisticDeity]

nice shot of Ronnie's back standing relaxed at the 2001 Arnold Classic.
Personally, I think this is one of the most outstanding "totally relaxed" back shots of all time.
 

Monster balance !!

[Praetor Fenix]

LMFAO at Coleman takes straight firsts across the board thats laughable , Coleman has poor balance & proportion he would most certainly lose the symmetry round , well give Ronnie the musculairty despite not being as dry as Dorian and no way in hell Ronnie beats Dorian in any posing round , no fucking way in hell !! Dorian owns the mandatories!!

Poor balance & proportion?
- Better X-frame
- Better V-taper
- Smaller waist

Left To Right Symmetry is far better than Yates, esp. quadriceps, biceps, delts, and chest.

Your ONLY argument in terms of balance/proportion is the calves/quadriceps differential.
THATS IT! and its an exceedingly minor concern in the grand scheme of things.
It obviously had no impact whatsoever in Jay Cutler's case? Why would it in Dorian's?

Coleman would unanimously win the symmetry round. Yates symmetry is dreadful.
Posing proficiency does not compensate for a lack of muscle, worse symmetry, and less detail.

Dorian is dry but no detail underlies the skin. Stop using his dryness as though it is a strength.
It is merely a means to an end (the end being to show off muscle detail, vascularity, striations).
Since his detail is subpar, he is missing out on the entire point. Why cant you comprehend this?

Take a look at this pic it looks like his skin is shrinkwrapped over bare muscle it looks like its going to explode , look at his traps they look like you could peel them like an onion , his chest is littered with striations which you keep claiming he's devoid of , he looks like he was chisled out of a soild piece of marble , you can clearly see seperation , Ronnie 03 doesn't look anywhere near as hard & dry as this , his delts look like cannonballs for christs sake

Nice analogies 
"Peel his traps LIKE AN ONION?" LOL
Just goes to show how shallow and pasty they are from the front in the most-muscular pose.

His skin looks nowhere near as tight as Coleman's. You are either lying or imagining it is.
The striations are only evident in that one angled picture, not surprising.
Certainly you can produce a few more? Regardless, Dorian's striations are quite superficial.

Nowhere near this level of penetrating detail. The striations are stacked and in clear evidence.
Ronnie's chest also looks 100% harder AND drier, as do most of his strengths relative to Yates.

CANNONBALLS? Dorian's delts suck ass. Always have, always will.
Poor separation in the delt-caps and insufficient size. They look as hard as moist pig-fat.

Check out Ronnie's back. Now THAT is taut skin!!

[NarcissisticDeity]

correction. the last photo was taken in Oct. 2000 according to Dennis James.

Ronnie looks narrow compared to Dennis in that shot

[NarcissisticDeity]

Poor balance & proportion?
- Better X-frame
- Better V-taper
- Smaller waist

Left To Right Symmetry is far better than Yates, esp. quadriceps, biceps, delts, and chest.

Your ONLY argument in terms of balance/proportion is the calves/quadriceps differential.
THATS IT! and its an exceedingly minor concern in the grand scheme of things.
It obviously had no impact whatsoever in Jay Cutler's case? Why would it in Dorian's?

Coleman would unanimously win the symmetry round. Yates symmetry is dreadful.
Posing proficiency does not compensate for a lack of muscle, worse symmetry, and less detail.

Dorian is dry but no detail underlies the skin. Stop using his dryness as though it is a strength.
It is merely a means to an end (the end being to show off muscle detail, vascularity, striations).
Since his detail is subpar, he is missing out on the entire point. Why cant you comprehend this?

Nice analogies 
"Peel his traps LIKE AN ONION?" LOL
Just goes to show how shallow and pasty they are from the front in the most-muscular pose.

His skin looks nowhere near as tight as Coleman's. You are either lying or imagining it is.
The striations are only evident in that one angled picture, not surprising.
Certainly you can produce a few more? Regardless, Dorian's striations are quite superficial.

Nowhere near this level of penetrating detail. The striations are stacked and in clear evidence.

CANNONBALLS? Dorian's delts suck ass. Always have, always will.
Poor separation in the delt-caps and insufficient size. They look as hard as moist pig-fat.

Check out Ronnie's back. Now THAT is taut skin!!

HOW DO YOU FEEL DORIAN WOULD FAIR AGAINST RONNIE COLEMAN NOW?

I think Dorian at his best (1993) would easily beat Ronnie. Dorian might not be as symmetrical as Ronnie, but all over he was more complete and in better condition at his best.

 

[Praetor Fenix]

HOW DO YOU FEEL DORIAN WOULD FAIR AGAINST RONNIE COLEMAN NOW?

I think Dorian at his best (1993) would easily beat Ronnie. Dorian might not be as symmetrical as Ronnie, but all over he was more complete and in better condition at his best.

BUSTED!
You claimed Dorian's symmetry is better & he would best Ronnie in the symmetry round.

Coleman has poor balance & proportion he would most certainly lose the symmetry round

YOUR EXACT QUOTE. Yet Lee Priest himself states that Yates was not as symmetrical.
If you had any semblance of credibility remaining, this inconsistency would have certainly dealt a vicious blow. Talk about kicking a man while he is down. Give up already!

[pumpster]

Actually, Yates barely HAS traps..where are they

[Praetor Fenix]

I like when you type a lot , it fills my thread up nicely lol you've proven nothing , you like to present a nice package but a lot of what you do type is to bore people and it works , obviously you feel you've provided proof , I still strongly disagree with you reguardless of all your ' proof ' I provided ' proof ' to Dorian's superior symmetry/muscle balance/proportion/density/dryness and obviously you don't agree , you feel Ronnie would win all rounds with ease I laugh at that idea , so what does that leave is with? opossing opinions right back were we started lol but its all good thats what these boards are for  

First, let me preface with the following: you are so predictable. Whenever you are backed into a corner or on the verge of publicly acknowledging defeat, you simply post cute (albeit completely irrelevant) one-liners. Hopefully suckmymuscle will come back soon and you will get a second wind. Your strategies (or lack thereof) are as clear as day to me.

I like to type long replies as well. My summer schedule is quite free, so it isn't as though I have anything better to do, or as if this diversion is keeping me from anything important. Believe me, if I had any responsibilities or concerns I would significantly scale down the number of entries as well as their length.

Fills up your thread nicely? Hell, this thread is merely your feeble attempt to deny the inevitable.
You think you are valiantly defending your champion when in fact you are simply getting owned.
Why do you think so few people continue to read and interject? Because the answer is obvious!

My paragraphs may be boring, but they are original. Each is typed from scratch.
YOU, on the otherhand, merely copy/paste and make a few minor modifications here and there.
Besides, how can a paragraph be entertaining when it pertains to a topic that has been beaten to death for nearly 200 pages?

There are several key differences.
a) I have a wide variety of useful visual evidence.
You have like 4 good pictures (all black & white). Yates looks like shit in the remainder.

b) I type rationally, logically, and coherently. You don't. 

c) You don't base your assessment on official IFBB protocol. You fail to assess the big picture.
You isolate minor flaws on Ronnie Coleman and criticize them relentlessly, while subsequently undermining the significance of Dorian's major flaws. This is beyond mere debate and opinion.
Your bias blinds you to reason.

After all, the conclusion of this thread is certain. Ronnie Coleman > Dorian Yates. Case closed.

this quote makes all your typing null & void  

Perhaps. That same quote also makes you look like an ass, since you attempted to use it in your support yet you contradicted one of his main points by explicitly arguing against it! HAHAHA

[NeoSeminole]

Good when standing alone. Piss poor when compared to a superior bodybuilder.

[pumpster]

Look like "before" & "after" pics. hahahhahahaha

[NarcissisticDeity]

First, let me preface with the following: you are so predictable. Whenever you are backed into a corner or on the verge of publicly acknowledging defeat, you simply post cute (albeit completely irrelevant) one-liners. Hopefully suckmymuscle will come back soon and you will get a second wind. Your strategies (or lack thereof) are as clear as day to me.

I like to type long replies as well. My summer schedule is quite free, so it isn't as though I have anything better to do, or as if this diversion is keeping me from anything important. Believe me, if I had any responsibilities or concerns I would significantly scale down the number of entries as well as their length.

Fills up your thread nicely? Hell, this thread is merely your feeble attempt to deny the inevitable.
You think you are valiantly defending your champion when in fact you are simply getting owned.
Why do you think so few people continue to read and interject? Because the answer is obvious!

My paragraphs may be boring, but they are original. Each is typed from scratch.
YOU, on the otherhand, merely copy/paste and make a few minor modifications here and there.
Besides, how can a paragraph be entertaining when it pertains to a topic that has been beaten to death for nearly 200 pages?

There are several key differences.
a) I have a wide variety of useful visual evidence.
You have like 4 good pictures (all black & white). Yates looks like shit in the remainder.

b) I type rationally, logically, and coherently. You don't. 

c) You don't base your assessment on official IFBB protocol. You fail to assess the big picture.
You isolate minor flaws on Ronnie Coleman and criticize them relentlessly, while subsequently undermining the significance of Dorian's major flaws. This is beyond mere debate and opinion.
Your bias blinds you to reason.

After all, the conclusion of this thread is certain. Ronnie Coleman > Dorian Yates. Case closed.

Perhaps. That same quote also makes you look like an ass, since you attempted to use it in your support yet you contradicted one of his main points by explicitly arguing against it! HAHAHA

One for you to claim I've been back into a corner is fantasy and two I don't have  admit defeat because I don't feel I'm wrong , my opinion hasn't changed one bit , the difference between you and I is I'm more than willing my opinion is just that and opinion you on the otherhand are just like a conservitive christian you're under this delusion that your opinion is fact and its not

You do a lot of assuming and you know what they say about assuption , then again you don't mind comming across as an ass   I have not ' cut copied and pasted ' anything and Dorian isn't my hero in the least I was routing for Flex Wheeler in 1993 so thats wrong again

Long before you entered the party this thread was getting old and now you've added your two cents it brings me back to exactly why I started this thread in the first place , becasuse these debates accomplished nothing , I haven't budged on my opinion and neither have they , the board gets tired of this nonsense , so out of respect I offered a truce which fell on deaf ears   so in the end what we know if Dorian soundly defeated Ronnie eight times neither was at their bests and and any other opinion on the matter is just that an opinion .

[delta9mda]

PAY ATTENTION, STOP USING THE PARTIAL SIDE-SHOT OF YATES' MM. THIS IS WHAT HE ACTUALLY LOOKS LIKE FACING THE CAMERA..


Notice the almost total absence of detail, muscle quality or size on the arms and delts. Everything looks flat!

It's the same garbage he pulls using those black & white shots when he tries to show Yates with size. Meanwhile in those shots Yates is also puffy with virtually no cuts.

nice offseason shot of yates comped with a stage shot of ronnie

[pumpster]

if Dorian soundly defeated Ronnie eight times neither was at their bests and and any other opinion on the matter is just that an opinion .

Coleman: 8 Olympias
Yates:     6 Olympias

Getbig poll:

Coleman >>> Yates

Videos:
hahahahhahahah

[pumpster]

nice offseason shot of yates comped with a stage shot of ronnie

Except you missed the point-those are Yates' "good" shots. hahahahahhahahah

[delta9mda]

Coleman: 8 Olympias
Yates:     6 Olympias

Getbig poll:

Coleman >>> Yates

Videos:
hahahahhahahah

yates: 6/7 mr olympias
                     winner 15 of 17
                     second place 2 times
                     the 2 men to have beaten yates are dead or retired

[Praetor Fenix]

ND ... I have a request - Please address this:

LMFAO at Coleman takes straight firsts across the board thats laughable , Coleman has poor balance & proportion he would most certainly lose the symmetry round , well give Ronnie the musculairty despite not being as dry as Dorian and no way in hell Ronnie beats Dorian in any posing round , no fucking way in hell !! Dorian owns the mandatories!!

HOW DO YOU FEEL DORIAN WOULD FAIR AGAINST RONNIE COLEMAN NOW?

I think Dorian at his best (1993) would easily beat Ronnie. Dorian might not be as symmetrical as Ronnie, but all over he was more complete and in better condition at his best.

[alexxx]

Did ND admit that Ronnie has more mass and is more symetrical then Diesel?

[NeoSeminole]

Here's what I don't understand about ND. He claims Arnold's legs are better than Ronnie's b/c they are more separated. However, Ronnie is more separated AND has more mass overall than Dorian yet ND says Dorian is better than Ronnie.

 

[nicorulez]

Let this thread die guys.  It was fun for the first two weeks.  It is now old.  Hulkster and ND will never change their opinions.  Anyone who is a Yates fan continues to be so.  Anyone in camp Coleman would definitely not be swayed by ND and Suckmyarsehole.  Move on to something like underwater basketweaving.  At least that is a sport that I am sure Dorian and Ronnie could compete against one another on equal footing.  As far as bodybuilding....Ronnie >>>> Dorian, but that is my opinion.  I am sure everybody by now has their own so who the f__k cares anymore.

[Praetor Fenix]

Let this thread die guys.  It was fun for the first two weeks.  It is now old.  Hulkster and ND will never change their opinions.  Anyone who is a Yates fan continues to be so.  Anyone in camp Coleman would definitely not be swayed by ND and Suckmyarsehole.  Move on to something like underwater basketweaving.  At least that is a sport that I am sure Dorian and Ronnie could compete against one another on equal footing.  As far as bodybuilding....Ronnie >>>> Dorian, but that is my opinion.  I am sure everybody by now has their own so who the f__k cares anymore.

I guess I'm ready to end this as well.
We will never convince camp Yates, just as they will never convince us.
No outsiders actually read this thread anymore ... its a microcosm.

I will ignore this thread (well, won't reply) for 1-2 weeks.
Although, if it survives my absence ... I'll most likely jump right back in for Round 2. 

[NarcissisticDeity]

ND ... I have a request - Please address this:

Okay Preist feels Dorian isn't as symmetrical so he's contradicting what I'm saying but it the end he still feels Dorian would win , so no matter what road we both take we both end up at the same destination 

[NarcissisticDeity]

Let this thread die guys.  It was fun for the first two weeks.  It is now old.  Hulkster and ND will never change their opinions.  Anyone who is a Yates fan continues to be so.  Anyone in camp Coleman would definitely not be swayed by ND and Suckmyarsehole.  Move on to something like underwater basketweaving.  At least that is a sport that I am sure Dorian and Ronnie could compete against one another on equal footing.  As far as bodybuilding....Ronnie >>>> Dorian, but that is my opinion.  I am sure everybody by now has their own so who the f__k cares anymore.

Great thread , minus the Ronnie>>>> Dorian part , but this horse had been beat to death and like Fenix said no one is bothering to even read this anymore besides us .

[FREAKgeek]

I think Ronnie Coleman is better than Dorian Yates...
What do you guys think?