Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce

[natural al]

I'm seeing some pronounced cognitive difficulties with those who think Yates is anything other than over-rated.

You really made yourself look stupid with that comment. I'm speaking in general, not for myself, and you couldn't figure that out. Without proof, his statement is meaningless-just more empty rhetoric without any basis in fact that ND & SUCKMYASSHOLE have established they're good at providing.

Because of your limited intelligence you weren't able to understand that. hahahahhahahahah

so let me get this straight....someone says something and it doesn't mean a thing without proof?  Ok, then pretty much everything you've said about all the political stuff in the ifbb does not mean a thing since you have provided no proof.  You provided no proof when you said Ronnie forceed Dorian to retire because Dorian was scared of Ronnie.....pot meet kettle.  Kinda interesting how certain arguements or points of view are all fine and dandy when they work for you but once someone else uses the same tactics they have no credibility...hmmmmmmmm

[sculpture]

PUMPSTER DOESNT BELIEVE IT! OH SHIT ! GOD HELP US!


Pumpster do you think that you are valuable enough as a human being to warrant some need on our part to make you "believe it".  No one here gives a shit about you especially ND or me.  Gosh talk about narcissisitic.    You remind me of ZachG.  So go and have a mental breakdown for the love of god.

This post is utterly bizarre. Not just because it makes absolutly no sense and has no relevance but also because this character normally posts pics with zero annotation and caption that have no meaning.

Now he's resorted to meaningless text as opposed to contextless photos.

Crude.

[sculpture]

so let me get this straight....someone says something and it doesn't mean a thing without proof?  Ok, then pretty much everything you've said about all the political stuff in the ifbb does not mean a thing since you have provided no proof.  You provided no proof when you said Ronnie forceed Dorian to retire because Dorian was scared of Ronnie.....pot meet kettle.  Kinda interesting how certain arguements or points of view are all fine and dandy when they work for you but once someone else uses the same tactics they have no credibility...hmmmmmmmm

I think it would be best for the thread if you chase pumpster via pm's because i'm sick of reading your pursuits.

[natural al]

I think it would be best for the thread if you chase pumpster via pm's because i'm sick of reading your pursuits.

I really think I give a f**k what you think, it's not like I'm on every page, I only chime in once in awhile....this whole thead needs to die.  You're sick of reading my responses to the spin doctor?  I'm sick of people trying to reimagine history and make a guy who won 6 olympia's out to look like a guy who couldn't win a local show

[sculpture]

You've tainted this thread with a seemingly personal vendetta against pumpster.

[natural al]

You've tainted this thread with a seemingly personal vendetta against pumpster.

no, my problem with pumpster is that he has twisted history to meet his point of view.  This thread is almost 200 pages of nothing but name calling, lying, twisting facts, posting the same pics over and over again and I tainted it?  C'mon...either you don't know what you're talking about or you're totally clueless as to what this thead has been all about.

If pumpster wants to say Ronnie is better that's fine but don't make shit up.  don't say dorian was scared of a guy who never made an olympia posedown.  Don't say it was all politics, don't post pics of a guy offseason in workout clothes and say he looked like shit...that's just wrong.

[pumpster]

Good suggestion-be my stalker/groupie via PM. Wasting time with it here is boring especially since he has nothing else to say. I seem to be his raison d'etre.

If you were more perceptive you wouldn't think in black & white. I've never said that politics was the whole thing, but it's definitely a factor in a subjective enterprise that Weider has always added a highly commercial lilt to. I've obviously followed BB longer than you dating back to the beginning of the 70s, and have seen this often enough that it's obvious by now. Just because you can't comprehend it doesn't prove anything. It's a factor, largely due to Weider commercial emphasis on moving product. Schwarzenegger's political problems last year regarding AMI were indicative of what's been going on for decades under the surface. It wasn't pretty. Were you living in a cave in Afghanistan?

I've supported my statements better than most here. Natural has consistently proven that he belongs at the opposite end of the spectrum-negative whiny little beeotch with little to say. Nothing other than ND's attack dog with no individuality-in other words, ideally suited for ND & SUCKMYASSHOLE's baseless claims. hahahhahahaha

[natural al]

here's the problem pumpster, are politics involved in bodybuilding?  Sure they are.  I've got no problem admitting that but you fall back on it for almost all of your arguements.  We spoke about Lee haney along time ago and you said he won alot of his shows due to politics.  Fine, explain to me why that would be a good move on Weiders part.  Explain to me why Dorian would be someone Joe would want to push.  Like ND said there were tons of guys out there who better represented the sport and would have made joe alot more $$$ than haney and dorian.

I don't have a problem with you and really, I have not posted all that much in this thread considering it's about 200 pages, come to think of it I think I disapeared for about 100 of em because I realized that my opinion was not gonna change anyones.  I think the main reason I respond to you is because you have made some of the worst posts in this thread, like I said before ND and Hulkster know how to argue thier points.  When it comes to you you have 2 techniques:  call them ironagers or post pics that don't really show what you were talking about and that just kinda irks me.

anyway, I'll say the same thing I said back on page 30 or so:  you believe what you want to believe and I'll believe what I want to believe and we'll just leave each other alone, how's that sound? 

I'm in meetings the rest of the afternoon so I'm pretty much out of here and I won't respond in this thread unless someone calls me out.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Good suggestion-be my stalker/groupie via PM. Wasting time with it here is boring especially since he has nothing else to say. I seem to be his raison d'ete.

If you were more perceptive you wouldn't think in black & white. I've never said that politics was the whole thing, but it's definitely a factor in a subjective enterprise that has always been highly commercial as well. I've obviously followed BB longer than you dating back to the beginning of the 70s, and have seen this often enough that it's obvious by now. Just because you can't comprehend it doesn't prove anything. It's a factor, largely because Weider has always been a highly commercial entity. Schwarzenegger's political problems last year regarding AMI were very similar-in public office the questionable goings on behind the scenes of Weider BB publishing had to be disclosed, and it wasn't pretty. Were you living in a cave? Didn't make Weider or BB look good, and this is what's been going on for decades, undisclosed.

I've supported my statements better than most here. Natural has consistently proven that he belongs at the opposite end of the spectrum-negative whiny little beeotch with little to say. Nothing other than ND's attack dog with no individuality-in other words, ideally suited for ND & SUCKMYASSHOLE's baseless claims. hahahhahahaha

What have you supported your statements with? zero , he called you out on it and now you're lost !!

[pumpster]

Like ND said there were tons of guys out there who better represented the sport and would have made joe alot more $$$ than haney and dorian.

You're asking me to explain Weider's highly-secretive business processes. Who knows? It's all anecdotal, but there's strong hints all over the place. Even if I gave you my theories they're just guesses-doesn't really matter.

What you don't seem to accept though, is that what i've said about Haney & Yates is exactly what was said by  Oliva; I came to the same conclusions prior to reading what he'd said. Something was wrong with the picture when they could win that many times when other greats never won at all. Same thing with Columbu-he was never the world's best-build man. Dickerson..

Can't tell you exactly their criterias other than to provide more indirect evidence-some of the decisions were sufficiently questionable that most of the great BBs at the end of the end of the 70s and early 80s left the IFBB. Robinson, Szkalak, Padilla, Mentzer could've developed great rivalries with a fairer contest; IMO Weider botched that and made BB less interesting.

That's pretty good anecdotal evidence from some of the top guys, which is all there is on the surface from a commercial enterprise that doesn't have to disclose.

[pumpster]

What have you supported your statements with? zero , he called you out on it and now you're lost !!

I respect ND's determination in this thread but that does nothing other than further discredit his position.

[NarcissisticDeity]

You're asking me to explain Weider's highly-secretive business processes. Who knows? It's all anecdotal. Even if I gave you my theories they're just guesses-doesn't really matter.

What you don't seem to accept though, is that what i've said about Haney & Yates is exactly what was said by  Oliva; I came to the same conclusions prior to reading what he'd said. Something was wrong with the picture when they could win that many times when other greats never won at all. Same thing with Columbu-he was never the world's best-build man. Dickerson..

Can't tell you exactly their criterias other than to say some of the decisions were sufficiently questionable that most of the great BBs at the end of the end of the 70s and early 80s left the IFBB. Robinson, Szkalak, Padilla, Mentzer.

That's pretty good anecdotal evidence, the best that can be found from a commercial enterprise that doesn't have to disclose.

Is it anecdotal or coinsidence that , Robbinson , Padilla and Mentzer all returned in the 90s ? Robby won the 1994 Masters Mr Olympia over Lou Ferrigno , one of Joe's golden boys , it was a controversial decision , why wouldn't Joe stick it to Robby for old times sake? Danny Padilla alos competed with the Masters Olympia , Mike Mentzer wrote articles for Flex & Muscle & Fitness in the 90s , the only one who hasn't touched the sport was Kal and perhaps he has his reasons but they all came back to the I.F.B.B

And as far as Dickerson & Franco not deserving their titles I personally don't think Franco should have won either time I think Zane looked better in 76 and take your pick in 81 , Dickerson takes a lot of flack but he looked pretty damn good in 82 , the past 3 Mr Olympia winners all have questionable wins but its safe to assume your grand plan theory is reaching .

[pumpster]

All it takes is to agree on an obvious example such as Columbu to throw the whole thing into question actually.

As far as those other guys returning, relationships change over time; one thing is not related to the other. Probably all of them including Oliva had to accept that to gain more visibility needed to sell their training & nutritional products, the IFBB was a near-monopoly so they had no choice. Oliva said himself that Weider had already decided on his Olympia placing prior to the results in the mid-80s.

[NarcissisticDeity]

All it takes is to agree on an obvious example such as Columbu to throw the whole thing into question actually.

As far as those other guys returning, relationships change over time; one thing is not related to the other. Probably all of them including Oliva had to accept that to gain more visibility needed to sell their training & nutritional products, the IFBB was a near-monopoly so they had no choice. Oliva said himself that Weider had already decided on his Olympia placing prior to the results in the mid-80s.

I felt Zane should have won but I'm not a damn judge and I'm purely basing this on a few photos I've seen so thats not even close to be accurate , in 2002 after Ronnie was claimed Mr Olympia it was reported in the magazines that durring is trophy ceromony the crowd kept booing , so if we use your idea that if fans are in disagreement with a decision then there is some conspircy?

Sergio , Kal , and Tony Pearson all left the I.F.B.B and competed in the W.B.B.G they had other options reguardless if they were great choices and they and most came back Kal didn't

And Sergio said Joe already decided his placing before the Olympia in the 80s how the hell would Sergio know this? and to be honest with you there was a lot of romance in the return of The Myth but his placings in 84/85 were a gift in my opinion , this isn't the same Myth who struck fear into Arnold in the late 60s early 70s and I believe Sergio doesn't have a formal education so his theories sound a lot like yours , in an interveiw he did he claimed everyone did steroids even Steve Reeves , needless to say the first anabolic steroid wasn't invented until at least 6 years after Reeves retired so I would take what Sergio says with a grain of salt !

[suckmymuscle]

Good suggestion-be my stalker/groupie via PM. Wasting time with it here is boring especially since he has nothing else to say. I seem to be his raison d'etre.

If you were more perceptive you wouldn't think in black & white. I've never said that politics was the whole thing, but it's definitely a factor in a subjective enterprise that Weider has always added a highly commercial lilt to. I've obviously followed BB longer than you dating back to the beginning of the 70s, and have seen this often enough that it's obvious by now. Just because you can't comprehend it doesn't prove anything. It's a factor, largely due to Weider commercial emphasis on moving product. Schwarzenegger's political problems last year regarding AMI were indicative of what's been going on for decades under the surface. It wasn't pretty. Were you living in a cave in Afghanistan?

I've supported my statements better than most here. Natural has consistently proven that he belongs at the opposite end of the spectrum-negative whiny little beeotch with little to say. Nothing other than ND's attack dog with no individuality-in other words, ideally suited for ND & SUCKMYASSHOLE's baseless claims. hahahhahahaha

  Yeah, poop, Weider politics probably explains why most Mr.Olympias have been American...and black. Which is exactly what Dorian Mientjez Yates is.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[pumpster]

Yeah, poop, Weider politics probably explains why most Mr.Olympias have been American...and black. Which is exactly what Dorian Mientjez Yates is.

Truly you have no peer here in terms of incoherent babbling..hahahhahahahah 

On par with your strange choices of Coleman's "bad" pics that incessantly undermines your position.

[FREAKgeek]

in an interveiw he did he claimed everyone did steroids even Steve Reeves , needless to say the first anabolic steroid wasn't invented until at least 6 years after Reeves retired so I would take what Sergio says with a grain of salt !

They were invented in the 1930's. It was rumored that Nazi Germany used them in 1936 Olympics. They were certainly around in the 1940's. Im not, however, implying that Reeves used or did not use them.

[NarcissisticDeity]

They were invented in the 1930's. It was rumored that Nazi Germany used them in 1936 Olympics. They were certainly around in the 1940's. Im not, however, implying that Reeves used or did not use them.

The Germans did use testosterone in the 40s , the first anabolic ( Dianabol ) steroid wasn't invented in the United States until 1958 by CIBA labs the first atheletes who used anabolic steroids were weightlifters and the general consensus was anabolic steroids didn't make their way onto the West Coast bodybuilding scene until the earliest 1960 .

[FREAKgeek]

You're splitting hairs. Testosterone is an anabolic steroid. Dbol is just one of many derivatives.

[pumpster]

The Germans did use testosterone in the 40s , the first anabolic ( Dianabol ) steroid wasn't invented in the United States until 1958 by CIBA labs the first atheletes who used anabolic steroids were weightlifters and the general consensus was anabolic steroids didn't make their way onto the West Coast bodybuilding scene until the earliest 1960

Agreed, this is semantics. Was available from the 30s onwards, and it's unknown whether Reeves or Grimek used them.

Nothing I've read has Sergio looking anything but honest; part of why he wasn't as desirable as a promoter of Weider products.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Agreed, this is semantics. Was available in the 30s and it's unknown whether Reeves or Grimek used them.

No its very well known Reeves never took steroids he addressed this in his book , he falt out denied ever taking them and was strong opposed to them in bodybuilding , furthermore he said he never even heard of them until the lates 1960s , so just like Sergio's assesment that everyone took them , your claims of them being avaiable is hersay .

[pumpster]

Very debatable. I hope you're not suggesting that BBs have always been forthcoming on this. Lots of things have been said in books that are untrue. The Reeves question has continued unanswered on IA actually.

Marnul, Schwarzenegger's original trainer, said he learned of steroids from Steve Reeves.

Botton line nothing conclusive either way; Sergio's integrity's intact moreso than most BBs.

[sculpture]

Why would steve reeves (at the time) be opposed to taking steroids when none of the bullshit associated with them nor potential health effects known?

I think it would tarnish the man's reputation in ND's eyes

[pumpster]

Why would steve reeves (at the time) be opposed to taking steroids when none of the bullshit associated with them nor potential health effects known?

Exactly; what might not be obvious now is that in those times-50s through the 70s-popping pills was part of the culture; the health aspects weren't fully understood or of concern. Smoking wasn't a big deal either, at the time.

Today it's easy to forget that the circumstances were quite different.


Oliva matter-of-fact on roids:

This is an area of great interest for people. I don't care who wants to take steroids, because that's a personal choice... that's his life. Now, today, everybody has access to them. I even saw in one of the big magazines that Arnold denies having used them, but Arnold was one of the first to bring steroids over to America. And everybody in the old days used them: Zane, Columbu, myself, Arnold, Larry Scott, Harold Poole, Dave Draper, and even Steve Reeves. There's no way to deny it. It wasn't much, nothing like today. But the development of drugs is much different. I used decca and dianabol, and that was something really big at the time; and decca was not considered that bad. It was even prescribed by doctors to help make your bones strong.



Politics, from his view on the inside:

What are your thoughts on some of the past Mr. Olympias, in regards to political tampering? How about the 1979 Mr. Olympia between Zane and Mentzer?

Mentzer all the way. There is no doubt about it. But don't forget, Mike came from the outside; Zane was with Weider. Don't let anybody fool you. Zane, Arnold, Columbu, Haney... all those guys were under contract.

Now, Lee Haney is my friend and I have a lot of respect for him, but there is no way in the old days that Lee Haney would have won the Mr. Olympia. His physique is unproportional -- a man with a back, but no arms or calves. Then there's Dorian Yates. He has a belly like a cow and no arms. That is not a complete physique. That is not proportional or symmetrical. But being under contract.... Now, if they put Zane and Mentzer together in a contest that was not Weider dominated then Mike would have won. Zane knows that, and Zane is my personal friend.

Do you think Haney deserved any of the Mr. Olympia wins?

He may have deserved some Mr. Olympias, but not all... not the guys he competed against. But, he knows. Everybody knows.

It's politics, the Weider bullshit magazines. But they control everything. If you try and fight it they will do everything to get you out of the way. They control all the contests, equipment and bodybuilders. And bodybuilders have to go with Weider because where else are they going to compete? They have to bend and go with them. But me, I did not care.

When I went to London in 1970 for the Mr. Universe, everyone knew I beat those guys, including Bill Pearl... I was given second place. From there I was to go to the 1971 Mr. Olympia, in Paris. I spoke to Serge Nubret who asked that I go to the Mr. Olympia since Joe Weider wouldn't be there to fix the contest. I then flew to Paris, and while there Joe found out I was going to compete. And he refused... he would not let me compete. He said I was suspended for a year because I competed in the non-IFBB sanctioned Mr. Universe in London the year before. He used any kind of trick. He allowed me to do a posing exhibition, but not compete.

In 1972, the Mr. Olympia promoter called everyone to go, and everyone did. But Joe didn't want Arnold to go, but Arnold wanted to compete. (I have nothing against Arnold, he has done very well; many people used him in the beginning, then he used them.) Arnold competed in Essen. By that time, the training I had with Arthur Jones allowed me to win the contest by miles. People are still talking about Essen '72. Even Arnold himself said that he didn't win, that it was nothing but politics... it was nothing but politics, but they gave it to him.

After that contest Weider put the promoter out of the promotion business. Serge Nubret used to be the big man when it came to running contests. Weider also put him out of the business because Serge did not want to run the contests the way Weider wanted to run them his way with the placings predetermined.

[suckmymuscle]

Truly you have no peer here in terms of incoherent babbling..hahahhahahahah 

On par with your strange choices of Coleman's "bad" pics that incessantly undermines your position.

  Incoherent babbling? I'm not going to allow an utter RETARD, such as yourself, say that to me. You didn't understand what I said, now did you? My point was that blaming Weider's politics on Dorian becoming Mr.O is laughable, because most Mr.O have been both Black and American, two things Dorian isn't. Get it now, moron? Damn, you're really dumb!

SUCKMYMUSCLE