Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce

[pumpster]

You're as biased as they come , you and Hulkster are two peas in a pod .

Coming from a ninny who avoids facts like kryptonite that claim is about as baseless as the overwhelming proof of Yates' "greatness".

[LuciusFox]

 Ronnie is greater than Dorian!

[NarcissisticDeity]

Coming from a ninny who avoids facts like kryptonite that claim is about as baseless as the overwhelming proof of Yates' "greatness".

You're the moron who avoid facts like the plague , Dorian won 12 out of 17 pro shows thats a fact , he never placed below 2nd in a pro show thats a fact , all most all of his Mr Olympia wins came with straight firsts thats a fact , he beat Ronnie Coleman 8 times thats a fact , he won 6 straight Mr Olympias thats a fact , he set the standard for bodybuilding in 1993 thats a fact

the best you could ever manage was conspricy theories not based on anything close to facts , you've tried every single angle to avoid the facts , from the Weiders hand picked Yates to he was never good enough to win any contests , you are a very lost individual in this thread .

[pumpster]

Ha ha ha a whiny turd with nothing to say other than complain. Right back to the data-nerism.

With these geniuses, any amount of proof can be dismissed. Not so easily ignored by others though.  Hence the getbig poll (Coleman >>> Yates), conclusive videos with no proof offered to the contrary, obvious pictoriaal mismatches. Some of the comparative pics are pure embarassment for Yates.

The pillage continues..

[NarcissisticDeity]

Ha ha ha a whiny turd with nothing to say other than complain. Right back to the data-nerism.

With these geniuses, any amount of proof can be dismissed. Not so easily ignored by others though.  Hence the getbig poll (Coleman >>> Yates), conclusive videos with no proof offered to the contrary, obvious pictoriaal mismatches. Some of the comparative pics are pure embarassment for Yates.

The pillage continues..

You've yet to provide one single fact to back up your biased opinions , the GetBig poll was peoples opinions not fact , the video is opinion not fact , you have nothing , Natural Al called you out and you ran like a coward , you're are without facts and commonsense .

[pumpster]

You've yet to provide one single fact to back up your biased opinions , the GetBig poll was peoples opinions not fact , the video is opinion not fact

And the earth is flat because you say so. Truly the words of a mental patient. All of you guys seem to have that in common-it's called denial. hahahhahahahhah

[NarcissisticDeity]

And the earth is flat because you say so. Truly the words of a mental patient. All of you guys seem to have that in common-it's called denial. hahahhahahahhah

Wait I'm in denial because you haven't produced any facts what so ever? lol get out of my thread you tool !!

[pumpster]

ND's witty reparte; choose one or more & recycle endlessly:

-"lol"

-"blah, blah, blah"


-"I think the earth is flat despite ample proof to the contrary, therefore it is flat."


Classic.

[NarcissisticDeity]

ND's witty reparte; choose one or more & recycle endlessly:

-"lol"

-"blah, blah, blah"


-"I think the earth is flat despite ample proof to the contrary, therefore it is flat."


Classic.

Almost as witty as your ' its N/D with lipstick " retort 

[Hulkster]

the video is opinion not fact , you have nothing ,

this is what I am talking about. the whole world can see from all the pics and videos that ronnie at his peak was better than Dorian at his peak.

You can't eplain why you feel that dorian is better using the videos or pics.  You use numbers and opinions because the videos and pics show that you are wrong.  And when the pics and videos show you are wrong, all you can come up with is "you have nothing"


great arguement for dorian's superiority..


you guys have lost this debate so badly you can't even argue anymore..

the best you can say is dismiss all the evidence as fantasy




The ronnie side has an overwhelmingly strong argument, supported by many pics and videos.

All the dorian side can do is dismiss all this as "nothing"

Guess what: that isn't good enough.

[NarcissisticDeity]

this is what I am talking about. the whole world can see from all the pics and videos that ronnie at his peak was better than Dorian at his peak.

You can't eplain why you feel that dorian is better using the videos or pics.  You use numbers and opinions because the videos and pics show that you are wrong.  And when the pics and videos show you are wrong, all you can come up with is "you have nothing"


great arguement for dorian's superiority..


you guys have lost this debate so badly you can't even argue anymore..

the best you can say is dismiss all the evidence as fantasy


 videos.

All the dorian side can do is dismiss all this as "nothing"

Guess what: that isn't good enough.

I can't explain why Dorian is better using pics & videos ?? I've explained until I'm blue in the face why Dorian was better using pics and it fell on deaf ears it , I explained my opinion on exactly why he would beat Coleman but you wont accept it , fine its an opinion , but you insist on clinging to this notion that because you like certain pictures & videos then thats is concrete proof its not , its your fucking opinion thats he is better and nothing more , I've resigned to the fact that I couldn't change your mind and thats okay for you to keep on with your nonsense that pics & videos prove your point of veiw is pathetic it no more proves your point then the pics I posted but thats the difference between you and I , I can admit this and bias prevents you from doing the same.

[delta9mda]

errrr where is the truce

[Ursus]

it can be argued that bothe ronnie and dorian outdo each other in certain bodyparts/poses.

i am impartial but overall ronnie is much better.

[Praetor Fenix]

I can't explain why Dorian is better using pics & videos ?? I've explained until I'm blue in the face why Dorian was better using pics and it fell on deaf ears it I explained my opinion on exactly why he would beat Coleman but you wont accept it , fine its an opinion , but you insist on clinging to this notion that because you like certain pictures & videos then thats is concrete proof its not , its your fucking opinion thats he is better and nothing more , I've resigned to the fact that I couldn't change your mind and thats okay for you to keep on with your nonsense that pics & videos prove your point of veiw is pathetic it no more proves your point then the pics I posted but thats the difference between you and I , I can admit this and bias prevents you from doing the same.

There are several problems:

a) Your criteria for "better".

Muscle size is a major element that you always overlook.
Ronnie's muscles are larger, and there is no room for debate in this regard.
Even Ronnie's weaknesses (whether real or perceived) are larger than Dorian's strengths (examples: calves, forearms, triceps). I'm not saying sheer muscle mass alone can win a contest, but it is a much larger aspect of modern bodybuilding than you or suckmymuscle care to admit.

Ronnie's symmetry is 100% better than Dorian's.
Ronnie's left was a mirror image of his right in 2003.

Yates? His quadriceps were not uniform, his biceps were grossly asymmetrical (tear and pre-tear). His chest was not symmetrical due to a genetic sternocostal aberration. His rectus abdominis muscles did not line up perfectly from left to right like Ronnie's. Hell, even his traps were lopsided (left trap was higher), his left lat was wider, etc.

From top to bottom: Ronnie was wider (delts, lats) and his waist was thinner. Hence, a significantly better V-taper. Couple that with the sickest quad sweep in the history of bodybuilding, and Ronnie has a better X-frame than Dorian (who lacked quadsweep).

Calves to quadricep size differential is Ronnie's only symmetrical weakness from top to bottom.
Dorian, on the otherhand, on top of an inferior V-taper and X-frame, had insufficient hamstrings & glute development to match his then incomparable back width and thickness. This lead to a sorely underwhelming lower-body in every pose from the rear, and from the waist down is 1/2 the body. Dorian's arms were underdeveloped relative to the girth of his torso. Dorian's delt/pec tie-ins are underwhelming, whereas they are standouts on Coleman.

I'm sorry. Ronnie's arms do NOT overpower his deltoids. You keep raising this argument and its foolish. Nobody agrees with you in this regard and every piece of visual evidence beyond 1998 contradicts your assessment. Your argument that his upper arms overpower his forearms is equally foolish. Coleman's forearms are larger, and the individual muscles have more separation, than Dorian's, yet you claim a perfectly normal and acceptable taper in the muscle belly is a weakness. That is a complete value judgment and an IFBB official's assessment would contain no provision for something so minor and subjective.

Ronnie's detail is better. This is quite clear based on the pictures and videos thus far.
Even the pictures YOU post in Dorian's defense testify to his lack of detail.

Face it. All you have is "dryness". I have said it once, and I will say it again, the sole purpose of coming in dry is to showcase muscular and vascular detail. Does Dorian have vascularity? None (with the sole exception of unattractive vessels snaking around his small biceps). Does Dorian have striations? Few. (None on his quadriceps or triceps, not enough on his glutes or chest to match Ronnie). So he comes in dry, yet only to further prove that Ronnie has better detail!

So you have "explained" why you think Dorian is better over the past 180 pages.
You are clearly wrong. Your opinions do not accord with IFBB policy. You and suckmymuscle really need to start your own federation where you can apply this clusterf*cked, subjective criteria. Hell, why don't you make calves and dryness the sole criteria?? This debate is not entirely opinion because the IFBB does have concrete standards, standards that happen to favor Ronnie to an overwhelming degree.

[delta9mda]

its all opinion but, yates got 6 sandows. you cant change that with pics or vids. complain to the judges.
15 wins outta 17 pro shows and the rest were second place, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm DOMINATION.

[Praetor Fenix]

(ND's Logic):


 ,, he doesnt need striations , his forearms are better since they dont taper, overall size doesnt matter, his calves have better balance with his quads ,, his neck at this age was thicker than ronnies at that age 40 freaking years ago , , he has like 3 arms which of course are always better than 2 lolz symmetry doesnt matter, i will try to bore you with volume to hide the fact that my posts dont have any damn content, its just my opinion tough you guys wont convince me either way

[NarcissisticDeity]

There are several problems:

a) Your criteria for "better".

Muscle size is a major element that you always overlook.
Ronnie's muscles are larger, and there is no room for debate in this regard.
Even Ronnie's weaknesses (whether real or perceived) are larger than Dorian's strengths (examples: calves, forearms, triceps). I'm not saying sheer muscle mass alone can win a contest, but it is a much larger aspect of modern bodybuilding than you or suckmymuscle care to admit.

Ronnie's symmetry is 100% better than Dorian's.
Ronnie's left was a mirror image of his right in 2003.

Yates? His quadriceps were not uniform, his biceps were grossly asymmetrical (tear and pre-tear). His chest was not symmetrical due to a genetic sternocostal aberration. His rectus abdominis muscles did not line up perfectly from left to right like Ronnie's. Hell, even his traps were lopsided (left trap was higher), his left lat was wider, etc.

From top to bottom: Ronnie was wider (delts, lats) and his waist was thinner. Hence, a significantly better V-taper. Couple that with the sickest quad sweep in the history of bodybuilding, and Ronnie has a better X-frame than Dorian (who lacked quadsweep).

Calves to quadricep size differential is Ronnie's only symmetrical weakness from top to bottom.
Dorian, on the otherhand, on top of an inferior V-taper and X-frame, had insufficient hamstrings & glute development to match his then incomparable back width and thickness. This lead to a sorely underwhelming lower-body in every pose from the rear, and from the waist down is 1/2 the body. Dorian's arms were underdeveloped relative to the girth of his torso. Dorian's delt/pec tie-ins are underwhelming, whereas they are standouts on Coleman.

I'm sorry. Ronnie's arms do NOT overpower his deltoids. You keep raising this argument and its foolish. Nobody agrees with you in this regard and every piece of visual evidence beyond 1998 contradicts your assessment. Your argument that his upper arms overpower his forearms is equally foolish. Coleman's forearms are larger, and the individual muscles have more separation, than Dorian's, yet you claim a perfectly normal and acceptable taper in the muscle belly is a weakness. That is a complete value judgment and an IFBB official's assessment would contain no provision for something so minor and subjective.

Ronnie's detail is better. This is quite clear based on the pictures and videos thus far.
Even the pictures YOU post in Dorian's defense testify to his lack of detail.

Face it. All you have is "dryness". I have said it once, and I will say it again, the sole purpose of coming in dry is to showcase muscular and vascular detail. Does Dorian have vascularity? None (with the sole exception of unattractive vessels snaking around his small biceps). Does Dorian have striations? Few. (None on his quadriceps or triceps, not enough on his glutes or chest to match Ronnie). So he comes in dry, yet only to further prove that Ronnie has better detail!

So you have "explained" why you think Dorian is better over the past 180 pages.
You are clearly wrong. Your opinions do not accord with IFBB policy. You and suckmymuscle really need to start your own federation where you can apply this clusterf*cked, subjective criteria. Hell, why don't you make calves and dryness the sole criteria?? This debate is not entirely opinion because the IFBB does have concrete standards, standards that happen to favor Ronnie to an overwhelming degree.

Bodybuilding contests are judged in rounds , the symmetry , muscularity and posing , now Dorian did a interveiw for the bodybuilding radio and was asked if he could beat Ronnie in this day and age and here is his quote

" Thats very hard for me to answer , I'd probably , Ronnie would probably beat me I guess , I don't know , its hard to say you know , its hard to say but , Ronnie now is you know , what is he , Ronnie is comming in great shape probably 15 - 20lbs heavier than I was and that might tip the balance in Ronnies favor probably , although uh I probably have a little bit better balance and better conditioning on the day of the conest , and with Ronnies got you know is so ahead in muscluar size that uh you know they would probably go with Ronnie I would think , it would be down to the judges , its a hard question for me to answer you know. "

So Dorian is open to the possiblity that the judges would choose Ronnie over him soley based on size , however Dorian himself said he has better balance and conditioning which I've maintained for a while now , so Ronnie-03 would win the muscularity round by viture of superior size , even though his conditioning wasn't as good as Dorians , Dorian would win the symmetry round Dorian again said it himself that he has the better balance which I've also maintained , and finallu the posing round neither would be mistaken for Labrada but Dorian is the better poser , he can hit all the mandatory poses correctly and is very adept at hidding his weak points , so in my opinion bases on the IFBB judging criteria Dorian would win more rounds and it may be a close victory but I do feel he would win , maybe he wouldn't its all just spectulation in the end.

[NarcissisticDeity]

(ND's Logic):


 ,, he doesnt need striations , his forearms are better since they dont taper, overall size doesnt matter, his calves have better balance with his quads ,, his neck at this age was thicker than ronnies at that age 40 freaking years ago , , he has like 3 arms which of course are always better than 2 lolz symmetry doesnt matter, i will try to bore you with volume to hide the fact that my posts dont have any damn content, its just my opinion tough you guys wont convince me either way

Here is a quote that sums up the IFBB judging in a nutshell by a former Mr Olympia comeptitor Mike Christain

I think Dorian meet all the IFBB terms. He had mass , he was symmetrical and he had lots of definition. I thought he won. Can he be beaten? That depends on how you look at it. I say yes. But under the IFBB terms of juging -no. Number one is mass, He has that. Number two is symmetry. He is symmetrical Under the IFBB rules , he'll keep winning and winning."

[Hulkster]

Dorian would win the symmetry round

have you learned nothing in the last 180 pages?

why?

Dorian looked his very worst in this round. It showcased his lack of a great taper by virtue of his wide waist.  And his lack of quad detail from the front.

The symmetry round should have been Dorian's worst enemy if the judges had not been so overwhelmed by his size..



other than the calves, look at the perfect balance, proprotion and wicked taper!



now look at this
with fair judging, Ronnie would gain massive points over dorian in this round. It should be obvious.

[NarcissisticDeity]

have you learned nothing in the last 180 pages?

why?

Dorian looked his very worst in this round. It showcased his lack of a great taper by virtue of his wide waist.  And his lack of quad detail from the front.

The symmetry round should have been Dorian's worst enemy if the judges had not been so overwhelmed by his size..


now look at this
with fair judging, Ronnie would gain massive points over dorian in this round. It should be obvious.

What part of Mike Christian's quote didn't you comprehend when he said Dorian was symmetrical? you think standing relaxed in the front would case him to lose the symmetry round? lol while not that impressive when veiwed from the front he looked a lot better from the sides in the 1/4 turns and from the rear !! and not to mention the mandatory poses and by the way the pic with Shawn & Flex he beat both of them in the symmetry round so nice try .

[Hulkster]

however Dorian himself said he has better balance and conditioning which I've maintained for a while now

but you haven't SHOWN this with more than a pic of a lower back or an ab shot.

What about pecs, triceps, biceps, quads, delts, glutes, hams?

You can't have better conditioning in two minor areas, have comparatively little detail everywhere else and than proclaim than you have better conditioning.






if Dorian had better overall conditioning, he sure didn't show it...

[Hulkster]

Shawn & Flex he beat both of them in the symmetry round so nice try .

of course he did. He was twice as wide as they were. Judges blinded by size.

Ronnie had great wide lats. They didn't.

[Hulkster]

What part of Mike Christian's quote didn't you comprehend when he said Dorian was symmetrical?

what part of "words meaning nothing when comparing two physiques" don't you comprehend?

[NarcissisticDeity]

but you haven't SHOWN this with more than a pic of a lower back or an ab shot.

What about pecs, triceps, biceps, quads, delts, glutes, hams?

You can't have better conditioning in two minor areas, have comparatively little detail everywhere else and than proclaim than you have better conditioning.


if Dorian had better overall conditioning, he sure didn't show it...

Look Dorian was honest when he said that Ronnie may beat him by virtue of greater size he's honest but when he says he has better conditioning & balance that is somehow a lie   get serious .

[NarcissisticDeity]

of course he did. He was twice as wide as they were. Judges blinded by size.

Ronnie had great wide lats. They didn't.

And Dorian has great wide lats as well and the judges were blinded by size & conditioning and balance & proportion , the whole package .