Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce

[Praetor Fenix]

thats what happens when you have a really small waist..

ND:
I like how you can see Coleman's glutes sticking out from the front lol thats not overdevelopment

I find this quite funny  

One, I've never heard of this objection before.
Not in relation to Coleman or to ANY bodybuilder for that matter. EVER.

At the same time, he acts as though its some monumental flaw or weakness that could cost Coleman the Olympia. HAHAHAHA, I'm seriously laughing at loud at this. ND makes a unique observation, decides it MUST be a flaw since its Coleman, then proceeds to make an inordinate amount of noise about about it.

I'm sure if it was Dorian he would be praising his gluteus maximus "width" and development.

I'm sure the judges are diligently scrutinizing the waistline from the front for a pair of protruding glutes   ... whereas of course they ignore detail (striations aren't necessary!), muscle size, symmetry, muscle maturity (ND: what's that?), separation. etc.

Perhaps its a new trend. Hell, I'm sure in the days preceding Eugene Sandow, it would be considered "unnatural" for the latissimus dorsi to be visible from the front.

[Praetor Fenix]

Its sad ND ... conditioning is the cornerstone of your argument, yet you are consistently forced to post Dorian's pre-season pictures for reference, despite the fact that he lacked contest condition at this stage.

[Hulkster]

not really sure I understand the criticisms of Ronnie's glutes/hams/quads.

If they were a problem, then his legs should not look this good from the side.

Can anyone show me legs from the side that even come close to these?

I am sure there are a few good ones (mustafa?) but to me, if the criticism is warranted, then it should be an obvious flaw.

But in this case, it is a strength for Ronnie, not a flaw..

[Hulkster]

Its sad ND ... conditioning is the cornerstone of your argument, yet you are consistently forced to post Dorian's pre-season pictures for reference, despite the fact that he lacked contest condition at this stage.

this is what is retarded:

conditioning is the cornerstone of the argument, yet Ronnie displays far more detail top to bottom



so what good is Dorian's conditioning if he doesn't display Ronnie's level of detail?

this is a question that I have raised several times and everyone from Camp Yates has IGNORED because they probably don't know what to say.

Dorian had better conditioning in the abs and lower back. thats it.

two minor areas.

ronnie had better detail EVERYWHERE else.

[Praetor Fenix]

not really sure I understand the criticisms of Ronnie's glutes/hams/quads.

If they were a problem, then his legs should not look this good from the side.

Can anyone show me legs from the side that even come close to these?

I am sure there are a few good ones (mustafa?) but to me, if the criticism is warranted, then it should be an obvious flaw.

But in this case, it is a strength for Ronnie, not a flaw..

That's exactly my point!
This "imbalance" doesn't even exist,  yet ND is blowing it up to monumental proportions.

ND can't argue lower-body size. He can't argue lower-body detail (striations, vascularity, separation). He can't refute the arithmetic: 3 major bodyparts (quads/hamstrings/glutes, 3 of the largest muscle complexes on the body) far outweight 1 marginal bodypart (calves).

All that is left to argue is shape/balance/proportion, and these are more subjective.
As a result, its impossible for us to concretely refute, so I'm sure he'll ride these indefinitely.

So far, he's tried to claim:
- Ronnie's glutes insert too low.
(Fact: the insertion point isn't visible and it does not determine the length of the muscle)
- Ronnie's calves are too small for his thighs
(We agree, we concede this 1 point to him)
- Ronnie's thighs are too large for his hamstrings
(An invention of ND's imagination ... or simply a catalyst to preserve any remnant of debate)
- Ronnie's glutes are too large
- Ronnie's quadriceps have worse "shape"
(Ridiculous, since they have better sweep and better proportion in the 3 visible muscles)

Dorian's vastus medialis is too large relative to the adjacent 2 heads.
Dorian's rectus femoris / vastus lateralis have no separation.
The vastus lateralis has no sweep. The rectus femoris is caved in.

ND loses this lower-body assessment hands down.
I will soon finish the comprehensive, exhaustive upper-body assessment later this week.

[Hulkster]

ND loses this lower-body assessment hands down.
I will soon finish the comprehensive, exhaustive upper-body assessment later this week.

It's already been done.

here it is:









 

lol - seriously, the calves were a minor advantage that dorian has, but he doesn't have much else over ronnie. Anyone can plainly see that Ronnie has a far superior upper body.  His back double bi is considered better by everyone except for ND and suckmyasshole, and although lats are about the same, Ronnie's smaller waist makes his rear lat spread look much better.

[pumpster]

although lats are about the same, Ronnie's smaller waist makes his rear lat spread look much better.

As mentioned previously, Yates' ample deficiencies intrude on his excellent back/lats. Back double-bi for example, 3/4 double-bi all compromised by those arms.

Blocky waist further diminished the lats by reducing the taper.

[Hulkster]

As mentioned previously, Yates' ample deficiencies intrude on his excellent back/lats. Back double-bi for example, 3/4 double-bi all compromised by those arms.

Blocky waist further diminished the lats by reducing the taper.

agreed..



Ronnie's taper and arms give him a huge advantage in the back double bi.

[Praetor Fenix]

Well you know, according to ND, the fact that Coleman's biceps have phenomenal peaks only means that his upper arms are out of balance with his shoulders in the rear double-bicep. Let alone the fact that Ronnie's shoulders are huge, well-proportioned, distinctly separated delt-caps. Evidently, the biceps must match the deltoids in height in order for them to be balanced, and since this is a physiological impossibility (it would be impossible for Coleman's anterior deltoids to be large enough to extend beyond his peaked biceps) for just about anyone with biceps peaks, he's just shit out of luck. The solution? Coleman must atrophy the biceps brachii into low mounds of soft, smooth muscle.

Its quite clear. If ND can't debate size (even with his pre-season black and white photographs, that is) and can't debate detail/separation, he'll simply dismiss the muscle complex in question as imbalanced. Whether or not there is even a faint visual trace of this "imbalance" is irrelevant from ND's perspective. In fact, I'm sure he would find it quite comical if we actually DID see it, because I'm sure he doesn't really see it either. Maybe, after a few additional 100 pages or so, he'll truly convince himself that he CAN see it. He won't have to pretend any longer...

[pumpster]

Its quite clear. If ND can't debate size (even with his pre-season black and white photographs, that is) and can't debate detail/separation, he'll simply dismiss the muscle complex in question as imbalanced.

In the lastest attempt to change the unpleasant reality, he obsesses on glutes and never even attempts to address this serious ownage..

Brutal contrast..

[Hulkster]

peak ronnie's delts were about as perfectly proportioned with his bis and tris as you can get.

ND is making up flaws as usual.

Yates on the other hand..

well, lets just say that his biceps were a tad small for his delts and triceps

[Praetor Fenix]

The remainder of this thread will consist of some combination of the following:

- ND invents a flaw/myth
(example: Ronnie's supposed quadricep/hamstring imbalance)

- ND mentions a real, albeit minor, flaw for the 100,000th time
(example: Ronnie's calves are too small for his frame)

- ND cites an irrelevant source or statistic
(example: A judge's comment from 1993. Yates' historical competitive record)

- ND initiates a 2-3 page rant filled with irrelevant pictures and queer one-liners.
(example: 'soft man soft lol' underneath Ronnie standing relaxed in 2001)

- ND takes the thread off on a tangent
(example: Randomly introducing Lee Labrada into the debate)

Couple that with suckmymuscle's generalized blanket statements, natural al's pestering of pumpster, and welcome appearances by the likes of delta9mda, nicorulez, NeoSeminole, etc .. the future course of this thread has already been charted. 

[suckmymuscle]

"One of the greats"

  Poop, don't even start the midsection argument, 'cause Ron was never a Lee Labrada in that area. Even at his 257 lbs form from 1999, he alredy had the start of a gut. I can easily counter the Dorian shots you provided with this. Ronnie: the master-taper!

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[suckmymuscle]

Monster abs

  Funny you should point that out, poop. Abs? Oh man, will Ronnie take a beating now...

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[suckmymuscle]

  I find it shocking, that Praetor and some others, think that the 280+ lbs Ronnie has great detail on his quads and back and that his midection is not a SEVERE liability - because it's just so damn bad. Great details on his hams, at 280+ lbs? Give me a break. ::)Look at the astounding lack of detail on his back and how shitty his taper and abs definition are, on his larger form.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[suckmymuscle]

  Quote from Julian Schmidt, "FLEX" magazine, on the November issue, 1998:

  "Now that Dorian Yates, the thickest, densest and most annealed bodybuider in history has retired, Ronnie has taken the opportunity to become the new stndard-bearer. Something unlikely to have happened, if Dorian still competed."

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[suckmymuscle]

  Quote from John Balik, commenting on the 96 O:

  "Dorian Yates looked absolutely fantastic. He was so freaking dense and so freaking ripped and dry, that he actually looked bigger than all the 280 lbs competitors, even though he tipped the scales at 255 lbs."

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[suckmymuscle]

  Quote from Greg Zulak, "MuscleMag", early 1997:

  "The most amazing characteristic, of Dorian, is not his size per se, but his muscularity: not only is his muscle-per-square-inch ratio the greatest ever, but his muscles seem like they were etched in stone, such is their hardness."

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[suckmymuscle]

  Quote from Steve Blechman, 1995:

  "Even though he doesen't represent my bodybuilding ideal, I think Dorian's overall development is mind-blogging. And when you consider that his frame carrries his size so comfortably, and that he presents his mass with such incredible conditioning...I don't think that Dorian can be defeated by current professional judging standards. He'll be Mr.Olympia for as long as he wants to."

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[suckmymuscle]

  Quote from Lou Ferrigno, after the 1993 O:

  "Dorian won. He is as big as I am, but with a better overall frame. I knew I was competing for second place the minute he stepped onstage."

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[sculpture]

IGNORE THIS TROLL EVERYONE

[natural al]

IGNORE THIS TROLL EVERYONE

why is he a troll and a guy like pumpster or hulkster or even ND isn't?  Just cause someone does not agree with you it does not make him a troll.   While I have not read everyone of his posts he seems to be doing the same thing as eveyone else has in this thread.....bickering back and forth.

[Bear]

Ronnie's gut shot despite being 25lbs lighter than Dorian 

Haha his arms are like 4 times bigger than Dorian's at 25 pounds lighter! Dorian's weight was all torso, like Art Atwood!

[pumpster]

Haha his arms are like 4 times bigger than Dorian's at 25 pounds lighter! Dorian's weight was all torso, like Art Atwood!

Sergio Oliva: one of the greats, unlike Yates:

"Yates has a stomach like a cow with no arms".

Quote from Steve Blechman, 1995:

  "Even though he doesen't represent my bodybuilding ideal

DUH!

[NeoSeminole]

Dorian getting destroyed by Ronnie!!!













I threw in the last comparison b/c if you want to post pics of Dorian at a heavier weight to showcase his "size" and "density," then it's only fair to compare him to a heavier Ronnie.