Author Topic: Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce  (Read 3524898 times)

rocket

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #6300 on: July 15, 2006, 10:21:07 PM »
The difference between the borderline wins for these guys is that dorian was competing in an era where a lot more guys could and should have been mr olympia atleast one year.  Jay is the only guy who can come close to Ronnie and really, Ronnie is better than jay on just about every occasion.

Hulkster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #6301 on: July 16, 2006, 03:54:56 AM »
dorian beat shawn and flex easily.  From the score cards, we can all see that.

But what the dorian fans are ignoring is the REASON that he won so convincingly.

He did it because he was BIGGER with a WIDE back.

thats it . no other reason.

how anyone can agree that the judges were correct in awarding this:



a win over this in convincing fashing



is unreal ::)

What ND and co have consistantly ignored is WHY they think Dorian beat this kind of quality so convincingly.

I am making the argument that he never should have.  The juges were blinded by size and size alone.

This is not right.
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healthiswealth

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #6302 on: July 16, 2006, 03:55:30 AM »
my god does Flex Wheeler kill Yates on the rear double bi.

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #6303 on: July 16, 2006, 06:46:38 AM »
dorian beat shawn and flex easily.  From the score cards, we can all see that.

But what the dorian fans are ignoring is the REASON that he won so convincingly.

He did it because he was BIGGER with a WIDE back.

thats it . no other reason.

how anyone can agree that the judges were correct in awarding this:



a win over this in convincing fashing



is unreal ::)

What ND and co have consistantly ignored is WHY they think Dorian beat this kind of quality so convincingly.

I am making the argument that he never should have.  The juges were blinded by size and size alone.

This is not right.

Again why do you fear posting a great shot of Yates ? please answer.  ;)

Your assessment that Yates won simply because he had a wider & bigger back shows your oversimplifcation out of ignorance & bias. If I want to use Hulkster-logic Ronnie Coleman only became Mr Olympia in 1998 because he had ripped glutes & hams and Flex didn't .

Seeing you're ignorant to why Dorian constantly & consistantly beat his contemporaries let me break it down for you , obviously his back played a key role as it had with previous Mr Olympia's since 1983 and overall most Mr Olympia winners had outstanding backs , Dorian won for a host of reasons including having excellent muscle balance & proportion , extreme dryness , extreme muscle density & thickness and a great ability to properly present his phsyique to its best advantage .

You just gloss right over all that because you're biased and it serves your purpose to reduce him down to nothing because it give you confidence when you say Ronnie at his prime would walk all over him , you're actually begining to believe your own bullshit .if they met at thier respective primes it would NOT be  an easy victory for either man , Ronnie 98/99 isn't so far ahead of what Yates presented that he would just have a feild day with Dorian , not by a long shot.

Another reason Dorian usually beat his contemporaries is he simply looked better in most of the mandatory poses , no one would match him in the front & rear latspreads , the back double biceps , side tricep , side chest and ab-thigh , standing relaxed from the front Dorian didn't look that great , his 1/4 turns looked awesome and standing relaxed from the back he looked great

Shawn Ray was never going to beat Dorian it was never ever going to happen for him not because of protocol but for the simple fact he was 5'7" and 205lbs and it was a big mans game , height is an obvious factor in bodybuilding contests and so is size two things which Shawn lacked , he had realtive size but standing next to the big boys he got lost , Dorian had 50 pounds over quality muscle evenly distributed throughout his body Shawn was never going to overcome that .

Flex Wheeler was the only legitmate challenger for Dorian. He was the only bodybuilder that didn't have to beat Dorian at his own game and the only lighter bodybuilder who could beat Dorian at his. Flex was 5'10" at was about 230lbs max but  his combination of outstanding muscle shape , seperation , tiny joints with balloning full muscle bellies and aesthetics coupled with the right ammount of size & conditioning would have in my opinion beat Dorian at his best , but again like others Flex didn't have Dorian iron-will which seperates champions from runner-ups

Paul Dillett was never going to beat Dorian with his back or posing & conditioning
Kevin Levrone may have been closer to Yates than then rest but it was it or miss with him , the bigger he got the softer he became , the lighter he became the less of an impact he made , catch 22 for Kevin but overall an awesome bodybuilder
Nasser see Dillett looked great from the front not so great from the sides and worse from the back
Lee Labrada awesome , awesome bodybuilder just got lost in the freak era


So in closing its pretty apparent from your statements & inablity to post a great pic of Dorian vs the comppetition that you're ignorant and I'm trying to teach you but as the old saying goes " You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. " but he has to drink sooner or later  ;) here is a few great shots of Dorian at his prime because you fear posting them.


NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #6304 on: July 16, 2006, 06:49:22 AM »
More of Yates from 1993

pumpster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #6305 on: July 16, 2006, 06:54:59 AM »
Quote
Again why do you fear posting a great shot of Yates ? please answer

All this time and he hasn't figured out that there aren't that many good shot of Yates to use! hahahahahahahahah Even the ones he posts aren't that great in general.

In both of these shots, the other guy's comparable. Nasser doesn't have the definition but is so far ahead on bis as well as a little better on delts, that it's a draw.

Same thing on the other shot-Wheeler's conditioning was just as good as Yates, and he was well ahead on arms & delts. Wheeler's lats aren't as wide.

NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #6306 on: July 16, 2006, 07:08:37 AM »
All this time and he hasn't figured out that there aren't that many good shot of Yates to use! hahahahahahahahah Even the ones he posts aren't that great in general.

In both of these shots, the other guy's comparable. Nasser doesn't have the definition but is so far ahead on bis that it's a draw.

I hope you're not seriously trying to say that Flex or Shawn are beating Dorian in that back double bicep shot? then again you're that stupid I shouldn't make the mistake of giving you the bennefit of the doubt lol

Nasser doesn't have the extreme dryness or thickness & density oh not to mention width and seperation and detail oh he;s also missing the striations in his glutes you care so much about . so even at his worse in 1997 Dorian still easily beat Nasser from the back & side os its very premature of you to base a whole contest on one single picture and gloss over all of Dorian's strenghts in that one pose to come to the conclusion he's so far ahead when in fact he's so far behind .

Shawn & Flex are comprable in terms of detail & seperation in that back double biceps shot but niether of them have the width , thickness , density , balance and lowerback of Yates ontop of both not having a good overall balance & proportion , calves and overall size as Yates of not to mention Flex isn't as dry as Dorian and Shawn is but he's a full 50 pounds lighter , neither of them are beating Dorian in that shot , its not even close .

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #6307 on: July 16, 2006, 07:32:55 AM »
Quote
its very premature of you to base a whole contest on one single picture and gloss over all of Dorian's strenghts in that one pose to come to the conclusion he's so far ahead when in fact he's so far

Even in the "better" shots it's far from conclusive that Yates was any better than 3-4 other guys.

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #6308 on: July 16, 2006, 07:38:20 AM »
Even in the "better" shots it's far from conclusive that Yates was any better than 3-4 other guys.

You make baseless claims and never for one instance back up your claim with a detailed explanation or pictures , I've explained my point of veiw exactly why Yates beats both in that back double bicep shot , lets hear your explaination why he doesn't in detail . you're being called out ( again ) don't run . ;)

Hulkster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #6309 on: July 16, 2006, 08:44:13 AM »
Quote
Again why do you fear posting a great shot of Yates ? please answer.

why? I don't. Its just that there are not that many.

seriously.

For example, there TWO shots where his back double bi looks like it should (ie the top few best in the world)

And there are MANY where it does not (eg. the shot I just posted, the shot from the 96 O. etc etc).


other than calves, lats and abs, the man was nothing special from the front.

he never deserved to beat this (esp. when you consider that Flex had a better back double bi- at least from the waist up)


and he would never beat this, again considering not only is the rear double bi probably better, he has width as well:


All of those shots with Dorian dominating Kevin and Nasser only show one thing: yates would get killed by Ronnie.

All of those great shot from 1993 show one thing: It is very questionable that yates deserved to beat Flex that night.

The judges were blinded by size and width.

The quality of flex was greater than Dorians that night.

Just as the quality of Ronnie would be the same.

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pobrecito

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #6310 on: July 16, 2006, 08:48:32 AM »
why? I don't. Its just that there are not that many.

seriously.

For example, there TWO shots where his back double bi looks like it should (ie the top few best in the world)

And there are MANY where it does not (eg. the shot I just posted, the shot from the 96 O. etc etc).


other than calves, lats and abs, the man was nothing special from the front.

he never deserved to beat this (esp. when you consider that Flex had a better back double bi- at least from the waist up)


and he would never beat this, again considering not only is the rear double bi probably better, he has width as well:


All of those shots with Dorian dominating Kevin and Nasser only show one thing: yates would get killed by Ronnie.

All of those great shot from 1993 show one thing: It is very questionable that yates deserved to beat Flex that night.

The judges were blinded by size and width.

The quality of flex was greater than Dorians that night.

Just as the quality of Ronnie would be the same.



Flex in 1993 in my opinion is superior to Ronnie 2001 ASC. Smaller waist, no gut, better shape, striated quads (no striations in ronnie's quads?)...

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #6311 on: July 16, 2006, 08:48:49 AM »
epic 256 pages truce

candidate2025

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #6312 on: July 16, 2006, 08:48:51 AM »
ronniieee    ronniieee ronniiieeeee!!!!
d[-_-]b actin all cool

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #6313 on: July 16, 2006, 08:49:52 AM »




 
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NarcissisticDeity

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #6314 on: July 16, 2006, 08:57:18 AM »
why? I don't. Its just that there are not that many.

seriously.

For example, there TWO shots where his back double bi looks like it should (ie the top few best in the world)

And there are MANY where it does not (eg. the shot I just posted, the shot from the 96 O. etc etc).


other than calves, lats and abs, the man was nothing special from the front.

he never deserved to beat this (esp. when you consider that Flex had a better back double bi- at least from the waist up)


and he would never beat this, again considering not only is the rear double bi probably better, he has width as well:


All of those shots with Dorian dominating Kevin and Nasser only show one thing: yates would get killed by Ronnie.

All of those great shot from 1993 show one thing: It is very questionable that yates deserved to beat Flex that night.

The judges were blinded by size and width.

The quality of flex was greater than Dorians that night.

Just as the quality of Ronnie would be the same.



Your full of it , there are pleanty of great shots of Dorian reguardless if you think so or not , you purposesly post back pics and claim some sort of internet-victory .

And Flex didn't have a better back double bicep from the waist up , you yourself are extremly critical of bodybuilders who lack width in comparison to Ronnie so lets not just gloss over that advantage when its concerning Dorian ( hypocrite ) Dorian has Flex on not just width , but thickness , density , dryness , balance , Flex's back look like it starts midway up and he's no where near Yates on the lowerback . factor in Dorian's better overall balance , hams , calves and I'm sorry sport its not even close.


Quote
All of those great shot from 1993 show one thing: It is very questionable that yates deserved to beat Flex that night.

This statement shows your ignorance & lack of knowlege . no seriously . even at his best bias prevents you from giving Dorian is due . FYI Flex was NOT beating Dorian on that night and he was extremely lucky to beat Shawn who was sharper , Flex himself said Shawn should have beat him , so your theory that Flex should have fairly beat him is just another of your pathetic attempts to deny his greatness. the judges didn't even need to call him out in the muscularity round that was and still is UNHEARD of and you've come to the conclusion a less than perfect Flex should have beat Dorian . you don't know much, I'm sorry.

Ronnie 98/99 may give Dorian a run for his money but to say he would dominate Dorian is unbelievably naieve and laced with wishfull thinking .


pobrecito

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #6315 on: July 16, 2006, 08:59:42 AM »
Your full of it , there are pleanty of great shots of Dorian reguardless if you think so or not , you purposesly post back pics and claim some sort of internet-victory .

And Flex didn't have a better back double bicep from the waist up , you yourself are extremly critical of bodybuilders who lack width in comparison to Ronnie so lets not just gloss over that advantage when its concerning Dorian ( hypocrite ) Dorian has Flex on not just width , but thickness , density , dryness , balance , Flex's back look like it starts midway up and he's no where near Yates on the lowerback . factor in Dorian's better overall balance , hams , calves and I'm sorry sport its not even close.


This statement shows your ignorance & lack of knowlege . no seriously . even at his best bias prevents you from giving Dorian is due . FYI Flex was NOT beating Dorian on that night and he was extremely lucky to beat Shawn who was sharper , Flex himself said Shawn should have beat him , so your theory that Flex should have fairly beat him is just another of your pathetic attempts to deny his greatness. the judges didn't even need to call him out in the muscularity round that was and still is UNHEARD of and you've come to the conclusion a less than perfect Flex should have beat Dorian . you don't know much, I'm sorry.

Ronnie 98/99 may give Dorian a run for his money but to say he would dominate Dorian is unbelievably naieve and laced with wishfull thinking .



a well thought out post.

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #6316 on: July 16, 2006, 09:02:15 AM »
Quote
Your full of it , there are pleanty of great shots of Dorian reguardless if you think so or not , you purposesly post back pics and claim some sort of internet-victory .

Further underlines the idiocy-I just used his pics (again, not the first time), which he conveniently ignores. What a dick!


Quote
a well thought out post.

At least he's not biased. LOL

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #6317 on: July 16, 2006, 09:09:55 AM »



At least he's not biased. LOL

Pumpster, you do have to recognize that his response is well thought out and very logical. What I feel he is forgetting though, you can't make all the logical conclusions you want, you can't deny the pictures. We must also remember that pictures don't tell the story 100%. I wish we had someone here who was at that Olympia that could give us a 1st hand account.

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #6318 on: July 16, 2006, 09:10:11 AM »
Flex in 1993 in my opinion is superior to Ronnie 2001 ASC. Smaller waist, no gut, better shape, striated quads (no striations in ronnie's quads?)...

Flex 93 vs. Ronnie 01 AC would be very very tough to judge.





Ronnie's quads were not striated, but were deeply cut at the AC:





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pobrecito

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #6319 on: July 16, 2006, 09:15:37 AM »
Flex 93 vs. Ronnie 01 AC would be very very tough to judge.





Ronnie's quads were not striated, but were deeply cut at the AC:







well, although I feel Flex was superior (and I would strive to look like him over Coleman) I believe Coleman would come out on top becuase he is ~20lbs heavier and has a wider back. He also has better conditioning in the hamstrings.

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #6320 on: July 16, 2006, 09:22:39 AM »
Quote
Flex 93 vs. Ronnie 01 AC would be very very tough to judge.

In shape like that Flex could never win because of just a few things against him:

-Much less structural shoulder width, so he had a lot less taper standing beside Coleman.

-Lat width.

-Thigh size.


Coleman was similar but just bigger all-round. Wheeler had better calves for sure, but that's not enough to overcome the above, especially the structural shoulder width difference and overall just bigger structure.

Later on it looks like he tried to address that by using synthol in his delts.

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #6321 on: July 16, 2006, 09:28:37 AM »
All this time and he hasn't figured out that there aren't that many good shot of Yates to use! hahahahahahahahah Even the ones he posts aren't that great in general.

In both of these shots, the other guy's comparable. Nasser doesn't have the definition but is so far ahead on bis as well as a little better on delts, that it's a draw.

Same thing on the other shot-Wheeler's conditioning was just as good as Yates, and he was well ahead on arms & delts. Wheeler's lats aren't as wide.
wheelers conditioning is not even close to yates.

pumpster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #6322 on: July 16, 2006, 09:31:32 AM »
This is very hard to beat, which is why Wheeler is the 2nd best BB of the last 20 years-better than Yates, better than Haney.

Further illustrating the insane politics of commercially-driven BB judging:

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #6323 on: July 16, 2006, 09:32:48 AM »
Quote
wheelers conditioning is not even close to yates.

You're pretty much in the minority on that one; may have looked different but the conditioning was there. Wheeler was right there, with a much more balanced, far more aesthetic physique.

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #6324 on: July 16, 2006, 09:48:46 AM »



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