Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce

[pobrecito]

Still not getting it because of your bias. You have to go through each criteria, not just the ones that in your bias you choose to highlight.

Shape-subjective-i don't see any advantage for either of them.

Fullness-same

Smaller joints-yes BUT Coleman's muscles are bigger = similar taper on a bigger frame. He wins.

Longer muscle bellies-does anyone care other than you even if it's true?

Striations-arguable

Size-Coleman

Width-Coleman

Overall size-Coleman

Tapers-Coleman-the lat/shoulder to waist ratio is better than Wheeler's

Shape, tie??? LOL...99/100 people will tell you Flex has better shape, and the best shape in the history of BB. Shows your obvious bias.

Striations arguable ....there is tons of picture evidence for this. Ronnie RARELY ever had striations in his quads, he did in '96 when he was smaller, but then he lost it. You can barely see striations in his quads in the 99 grand prix and in the same show wheeler easily beats him in striations. Advantage Flex.

Size and width to coleman sure, but what you dont seem to get is the amazing illusion Flex could create. Check this picture from 93. Yates is 257 and Wheeler is about 230. Who looks bigger?



Taper? again, hardly a huge advantage for Coleman. And if Bodybuilding was judged how it should be (with NO guts) Coleman wouldn't even be allowed to compete.

[pumpster]

Size and width to coleman sure, but what you dont seem to get is the amazing illusion Flex could create. Check this picture from 93

I love the way you dismiss these as quickly as possible and only brought them up because I wouldn't allow you to ignore two of the most important criteria there are in BB! You make SUCKY seem cogent!

Size and width to coleman sure, but what you dont seem to get is the amazing illusion Flex could create. Check this picture from 93. Yates is 257 and Wheeler is about 230. Who looks bigger?

As far as "illusion", it's actually another of your biases that is totally subjective, like fullness. Totally dependant on the angle of the pic. You're forgetting that I think Wheeler was better than Yates, but what that pic shows and what you don't comprehend, is that while Wheeler had more muscle, he loses on structural size to Yates and Coleman, which counts for something. He's simply not nearly as wide.

[pobrecito]

Anyone with a sane mind can see that Flex at his best beats Coleman the same way you Coleman nuthuggers have hammered home the fact that Coleman beats Yates at his best. Just face the fact that Wheeler has genetic superiority over Coleman and move on with your life. Flex wins.

Good win for me. i'm out.

[pumpster]

Anyone with a sane mind can see that Flex at his best beats Coleman the same way you Coleman nuthuggers have hammered home the fact that Coleman beats Yates at his best.

Excellent job in making a one-dimensional biased case for your hero until I forced reality onto you! A deluded groupie.

[the shadow]

flex wheeler is too small and too narrow to b compared with the great coleman..coleman is much bigger,thicker,wider than flex ever was..wheeler is just a one hyped bitch and nothing else..coleman is miles ahead of flex..damn wheeler looked like a kid next to coleman at the olympia 2000..colemans legs itself looked bigger than flex wheelers whole body..in 1999 coleman was thick and as well as his shape was much superior than flex..coleman in 1999 was a combination of mass and as well as shape..wheeler was nothing but just a illusion..his legs were illusional and i could  even hardly even see that he had legs or not...too small,flex wheelers back is too small,lacks width..he was too small to b even b called as a bodybuilder..i still cannot believe
HOW THE HELL DID HE WIN 4 ARNOLD CLASSICS IS STILL BEYOND ME...

[FREAKgeek]

Dear God this thread will reach 300 pages.

[pumpster]

flex wheeler is too small and too narrow to b compared with the great coleman..coleman is much bigger,thicker,wider than flex ever was..wheeler is just a one hyped bitch and nothing else..coleman is miles ahead of flex..damn wheeler looked like a kid next to coleman

hahahahaha
The sad thing is that Wheeler was still better than anyone else over the last 20 years including Haney & Yates, and deserved some of those Olympias handed to Yates as gifts.

[the shadow]

hahahahaha
The sad thing is that Wheeler was still better than anyone else over the last 20 years including Haney & Yates, and deserved some of those Olympias handed to Yates as gifts.

y the hell every 1 keeps on going on and on about wheelers body...where the hell do u see the guy was perfect..he got dwarfed by a huge mile by the big guys thats it still amazes y the hell he was even a bodybuilder..he looked like a fuggin skinny guy..go and watch arnold classic 1997 and see for urself how small he was
WHEELER WAS TOO SMALL TO B EVEN CALLED A PRO BODYBUILDER...TOOOOOOOO SMALL

[Hulkster]

the way I see it is ths:

arms - Ronnie
chest -Ronnie
abs -Flex
calves-Ronnie yes, Ronnie:Flex's have ALWAYS looked FAKE
quads - tie - yes, tie:

Ronnie had more size, fullness and sweep, with deeper seperation between the muscle groups.

Flex had striations everwhere:




lats -Ronnie
back -tie - Ronnie has more thickness, Flex had the most detailed back double bi ever, but lacked thickness.

glutes/hams - ronnie

Mandatories:

front double bi -ronnie
side chest-Ronnie
side tri -flex
ab and thigh -flex
rear lat spread -Ronnie by a county mile
most muscular -Ronnie
front lat spread-Ronnie
rear double bi -Ronnie -thicker with glutes and hams.

It would be close, but Ronnie would win.

[pumpster]

He was small, and it hurt him. On the other hand, his physique was obviously better than Yates & Haney who were seriously flawed.

[corinth]

I'm a huge Flex Wheeler fan. The 93 version of Wheeler is incredible in my opinion. But he wouldn't beat Ronnie. Standing next to Ronnie the few flaws Flex has are most obvious. Flex is just to narrow from shoulder to shoulder to beat Ronnie. Ronnie is just too big and wide through the chest and shoulders for Flex. And as good as Flex's back is, Ronnie's is just too wide and detailed for Flex. A close fight but Ronnie wins.

[Miss Demeanor]

Shape, tie??? LOL...99/100 people will tell you Flex has better shape, and the best shape in the history of BB. Shows your obvious bias.

Striations arguable ....there is tons of picture evidence for this. Ronnie RARELY ever had striations in his quads, he did in '96 when he was smaller, but then he lost it. You can barely see striations in his quads in the 99 grand prix and in the same show wheeler easily beats him in striations. Advantage Flex.

Size and width to coleman sure, but what you dont seem to get is the amazing illusion Flex could create. Check this picture from 93. Yates is 257 and Wheeler is about 230. Who looks bigger?

Dorian

FWIW, Flex was closer to 220 there -- a few pounds heavier than the 216 that steam-rolled him to all those wins earlier in '93. 

[pumpster]

Don't forget delts. Coleman wins delts. Wheeler was using synthol in his delts in later years.

[Miss Demeanor]

hahahahaha
The sad thing is that Wheeler was still better than anyone else over the last 20 years including Haney & Yates, and deserved some of those Olympias handed to Yates as gifts.

Gotta disagree with you here man.  Wheeler's best definitely deserved some Olympias, but '93 was his best shot against Dorian and he came up short IMO.  He was on the mend in '94, embarrassingly smooth in '95, considerably off in '96, and we all know what happened in '97   Even if Doz got gifts, we're talking about shows Wheeler still would've lost.

[pumpster]

Wheeler's best definitely deserved some Olympias, but '93 was his best shot against Dorian and he came up short IMO.  He was on the mend in '94, embarrassingly smooth in '95, considerably off in '96, and we all know what happened in '97   Even if Doz got gifts, we're talking about shows Wheeler still would've lost.

You could be right, I don't know the year-to-year history but when you look at some of these pics it doesn't look right nor does it look fair to have had such flawed guys as Yates & Haney accounting for almost 1 1/2 decades worth of Olympias.

[NeoSeminole]

amazing how black-and-white pics make bodybuilders look much better

[NarcissisticDeity]

the way I see it is ths:

arms - Ronnie
chest -Ronnie
abs -Flex
calves-Ronnie yes, Ronnie:Flex's have ALWAYS looked FAKE
quads - tie - yes, tie:

Ronnie had more size, fullness and sweep, with deeper seperation between the muscle groups.

Flex had striations everwhere:




lats -Ronnie
back -tie - Ronnie has more thickness, Flex had the most detailed back double bi ever, but lacked thickness.

glutes/hams - ronnie

Mandatories:

front double bi -ronnie
side chest-Ronnie
side tri -flex
ab and thigh -flex
rear lat spread -Ronnie by a county mile
most muscular -Ronnie
front lat spread-Ronnie
rear double bi -Ronnie -thicker with glutes and hams.

It would be close, but Ronnie would win.

Arms ? Ronnie beats Flex in arms? not quite . Ronnie beats Flex on biceps only no way in hell Ronnie has better triceps than Flex not by a long shot , Flex has the edge in size , shape and separation . his sidehead is just magnificent classic horseshoe . forearms are a push.

Chest - I'll have to agree with you here , Flex did have a ' small ' chest but it was fully developed striated and pretty thick. Ronnies does have the obvious edge .

Abs - intercostals serattus obliques Flex by a mile

Calves - again with your triceps assesment absolutely laughable ! Flex 93 ASC much better calves in terms of shape & development , I know Flex admited to synthol use but I don't know if it was way back in 93   and I'm still not convinced that Ronnie's calves are 100% substance free , but Flexes calves either way are better !!

Quads - I would say Flex his has a better shape , has consistantly showed striations if you want to use that as an edge ? has awesome sweep Ronnie at his best had awesome quads but I think Flex has a slight edge .

Lats - Ronnie has him of width & thickness Flex has him on striations Ronnie all the way

Back - Ronnie does have the edge in thickness but Flex has the edge in detail & separation

glutes & hams - Flex did have striated glutes and good hams at the 93 ASC but Ronnie has him on both

Delts - Flex at his best has better shaped delts but Ronnie has more detail a push?

Front double biceps - extremely close I'm not sure which way the judges would go I personally like Flexes better just aesthetically more pleasing

Side chest - I would say Ronnie

Side triceps - Flex

Ab-thigh - Flex

Rear lat - Ronnie

Front lats - While Ronnie has a wider lats I honestly think Flexes shot is just more aesthetically pleasing

Back double biceps - another extremely close shot could go either way

Most mscular - Flexes was amazing but so was Ronnies another to close to call in my opinion.

Ronnie has the edge in size but Flex has much better shape and he has aesthetics that Ronnie could only dream of , if you look at their careers they went tit-for-tat on wins for years he just barely beat Flex in 98 and Flex was off so if he was on I think Flexes combo would be to hard for Ronnie to overcome it may be close but I honestly think Flex would beat Haney , Yates and Ronnie all at their bests , his combo of size , shape , separation , roundness & fullness coupled with aesthetics his just unstopable .

Ronnie could never match Flex on triceps

[pobrecito]

please post many scans of Flex ND asap

[pumpster]

Ronnie has the edge in size but Flex has much better shape and he has aesthetics that Ronnie could only dream of , if you look at their careers they went tit-for-tat on wins for years he just barely beat Flex in 98 and Flex was off so if he was on I think Flexes combo would be to hard for Ronnie to overcome it may be close but I honestly think Flex would beat Haney , Yates and Ronnie all at their bests

ND refreshingly honest..the only thing is Wheeler beating Coleman. Not happening for two BIG reasons:

1/ Coleman & Wheeler were close enough on their attributes (one better on striations, the other on width, etc.) that it really comes down to Coleman's very obvious advantages in size overall and in regards to various, prominent areas.

2/ EVEN IF WHEELER WERE THE BEST, Weider & the IFBB have already proved that they will not allow smaller men to win if all else is equal-Padilla, Makkawy, Wheeler. Period. Forget the crap about their being no proof of politics, it's not convincing. Don't waste anyone's time no one else believes it. 

[pumpster]

Like a statue. The only problem was a similarly great, bigger statue named Coleman and politics during the Yates era.

[pumpster]

.

[pumpster]

.

[NarcissisticDeity]

please post many scans of Flex ND asap

Here you go .

[pumpster]

Good example of Wheeler looking unbeatable by himself-until standing next to someone very similar but substantially bigger in various areas.

Also doesn't have Coleman's detail and cuts at the larger size.

[NarcissisticDeity]

I think Flex man more than hold his own on the most muscular with Ronnie .