Author Topic: Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce  (Read 3517717 times)

onlyme

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #7750 on: August 04, 2006, 11:33:11 AM »
WHY IS THREAD SO LONG?

pobrecito

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #7751 on: August 04, 2006, 11:35:43 AM »
Dorian would look tiny next to 03 Ronnie



Ronnie weighing more than Dorian in the pic and destroying him in conditioning. :o



Ronnie doesn't look too bad against Dorian's best pose



I don't know. Ronnie looks pretty crazy here.




I've already acknowledged that Ronnie in 2003 set a new standard and would beat Dorian. However, he still would be less conditioned and less detailed in the back, just as 99. Size, ultimately, is more important.

pobrecito

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #7752 on: August 04, 2006, 11:36:13 AM »
Even at the young age of 21, Dorian displays a better back than Coleman has ever had 8)


pobrecito

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #7753 on: August 04, 2006, 11:39:05 AM »
Even in his 1984 form, Yates' MM would be just too much for Coleman to handle 8)


NeoSeminole

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #7754 on: August 04, 2006, 11:41:51 AM »
I've already acknowledged that Ronnie in 2003 set a new standard and would beat Dorian. However, he still would be less conditioned and less detailed in the back, just as 99. Size, ultimately, is more important.

How can you say Dorian had better conditioning when Ronnie had separations and striations Dorian never had? Your comment makes no sense. It's like saying a bowling ball is conditioned b/c it's hard yet it is still smooth. If you are only referring to the back, Ronnie more than holds his own against Dorian and destroys him everywhere else in conditioning except the abs.

Shockwave

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #7755 on: August 04, 2006, 11:42:45 AM »
great balance - top to bottom


Very powerful look. Built like a brick shithouse. Not very aesthetic, though.

pobrecito

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #7756 on: August 04, 2006, 11:44:01 AM »
How can you say Dorian had better conditioning when Ronnie had separations and striations Dorian never had? Your comment makes no sense. It's like saying a bowling ball is conditioned b/c it's hard yet it is still smooth. If you are only referring to the back, Ronnie more than holds his own against Dorian and destroys him everywhere else in conditioning except the abs.

becuase striations and separations are all genetic. Look at Dorian's quads, he just has fucked up shape. But he was  sliced. He took his physique as far as his genetics would allow. Like I've said prior, I believe Dorian did more with his genetic potential than Coleman has. And in my opinion, that's the only way you can judge the two. If you just went based off genetics, Paul Dillet would be #1

pobrecito

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #7757 on: August 04, 2006, 11:46:53 AM »
Also, NeoSeminole, if you believe striations are linked to ones degree of conditioning, we must then conclude that Flex Wheeler was more conditioned than Coleman because he always displayed more striations (esp. in quads) when in reality we know Flex's conditioning wasn't even close.

NeoSeminole

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #7758 on: August 04, 2006, 11:57:36 AM »
I understand what you are saying. That is why I mentioned Ronnie has separations and striations everywhere. Some people are genetically blessed with having standout bodyparts like Flex's quads and back. However, they may lack the same detail in other parts like glutes. Ronnie has striations in his triceps, chest, back, quads, and glutes. His separations are no fluke either. If separations and striations aren't a measure of one's degree of conditioning, then what is?

pumpster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #7759 on: August 04, 2006, 12:24:23 PM »
Virtually no detail or refinement. So smooth you could skate on him. Legs & torso way too big for twigs arms.

pumpster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #7760 on: August 04, 2006, 12:25:37 PM »
Quote
Even at the young age of 21, Dorian displays a better back than Coleman has ever had
::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

sculpture

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #7761 on: August 04, 2006, 12:27:51 PM »
Stop being melodramatic ' he's a child compared to 98 '  ::)  from 98 to 99 he improved but not to the extreme Dorian did from 92 to 93 thats visual evidence of a drastic change. and the rationalisation is from 1996/97 to 1998 there is NO other major physical advantage other than conditioning from 1998 to 1999 there is an eight pound size advantage which is more noticable vs 96/97-98 however when you factor in Ronnie's inability in 98 to convincingly beat Flex , a man Dorian dominated every time they met its very easy to grasp that 1998 Ronnie isn't beating Dorian 1993.

Again you take everything as being literal. For once please try and resist. "Child" - do you ever exhibit flexibility in the use of a word. When did i ever suggest ronnies transformation, which you, despite visual evidence to the contrary, deny, was ever comparable to the one dorian achieved from 92 and 93?

The mind boggles how you 've managed to muster the arrogance to sit there and deny the incredibly obvious differences in his physique between 97 and 98/99.

I think its time you accept whats staring you in the face.

You sound like you're rehashing some MD article . Ronnie did NOT take the game to a ' new level ' in 1998 or 1999. Dorian was 257lbs ripped a LONG time before Ronnie or anyone else . Ronnie like the resr were scrambling to play catch-up for years. Ronnie presented a multitude of different packages all worse than the previous ones , he started off great in 98/99 and past the 01 ASC he went downhill fast. onviouslt he did bring the game to a new level in 03 with his combo of size/conditioning and gut .

Several incorrect points here.
1. That dorian was 257lbs "ripped" has no relevance to what ronnie presented which i need'nt mention since its been repeated ad infinitum throughout the last 300 pages. Conditioning, detail, vascularity, seperation, balance, muscularity and mass which when we consider them all together with equal importance, no man has ever presented each quality to the same degree as ronnie. Bbers may have been bigger, or more ripped or "grainier" and balanced but no man has ever exhibited all these qualities like ronnie.

2. Yes people were playing catch up to dorian in terms of replicating his blend of size and conditioning but guess what, now that level has been surpassed just as the times achieved in the 100m have progressively become faster.

3. Ronnie certainly hasn't gone all downhill since 98 and 99 as you suggest. Which of his renditions is superior may come down to personal preference but i think we can all agree that he dropped in 2000, surpassed that condition at the ASC 01 the following year only to get worse that very same year and continue the slide until 2003 where he presented a physique far superior to the previous 2 Mr O's, then got worse in 2004 then better in 2005 which incidently was superior to 2001 and 2002.

And Ronnie 1998/99 is NOT physically superior to Dorian 1993 in reguards to muscular bulk/balance development/musuclar density and conditioning , 2003 he had the edge in muscular bulk and maybe muscular density ( maybe ) but he was still behind Yates in terms of balanced development and conditioning. and the overwhelming majority of you believe Ronnie is so much better so somehow this means you're right? lol great logic ( Hulkster ) who is the overwhelming majority? Hulkster , you , pumpster , Fenix and Neoseminole ? man talk about crunching numbers lol

1998 Ronnie gets beat by 93 yates in terms of and conditioning but balance he exceeds yates i'm afraid. Mass is debatable; on the scales dorian is the winner however ronnie appears just as large if not larger tha yates due to his smaller joints. Its all illusion of course but this fact somewhat renders yates mass advantage moot.

Its interesting how you avoid using criteria that ronnie clearly has the edge in such as separation, detail and aesthetics.

pssst because he's white lol and he beat his black heros .  ;)

On a side note and not from this thread, i'd appreciate if you stop insinuating that i dislike yates simply because he is white. I myself am caucasion of mixed origin and am certainly not a racist.


NeoSeminole

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #7762 on: August 04, 2006, 02:45:47 PM »
Is it just me or do Dorian's arms look bigger relaxed?




8 INCH not biceps

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #7763 on: August 04, 2006, 03:50:24 PM »

 This thread must be completing for the record books.

suckmymuscle

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #7764 on: August 04, 2006, 03:51:02 PM »
This visual eveidence is extremely compelling.

The bottom line is that the pics/videos etc do not lie.

Coleman of 96/97 is a "child" compared to 98 beyond.

This lays to rest the utterly pathetic rationalisation that dorian would trounce ronnie 98 /99 because he beat him in 96/97 despite himself being far from his "best".

I couldnt care less if there was a 1lb difference or 10lb difference in those years.

Whatever the extent of the weight gain was (ND, try for one minute to look beyond the oft quoted numbers), the fact is, is that it worked.

Ronnie is harder, fuller, better proportioned and bigger (visual evidence is there too see, don't quote your useless numbers).

Ronnie has taken this game to new level. He's presented a multitude of different packages, some with less success than others; Dorian could never of done this.

If still after 300+ pages, the few people cannot accept ronnies physically superiority then you should get out of this game, because for the overwhelming majority of us, its all too clear and need'nt be discussed (especially to these lengths)



  No, he wasn't. At the 1996 Canada Pro Cup, Ronnie was 260 lbs, and the Met-RX ad, of the time, especifically mentione that he "gained 20 lbs of muscle to defeat Flex Wheeler, at the Canada Pro Cup". So, in reality, Ronnie was smaller and flatter, at the 1998 Olympia, than he was at the 1998 Canada Pro Cup. His major improvement was that he ried out his lower back and hamstrings, and managed to tighten up his midsection, for a vastly more dramatic taper. As far as muscularity goes, the 1998 ronnie has nothing on the 1996 Ronnie. You guys keep saying that Ronnie was a "child" at the time Dorian was the standard-bearer, which is simply not true. The fact is that, muscularity-wise, Dorian actually defeated larger version of Ronnie than his 1998/9 forms. Only in 2003/4 Ronnie would be able to defeat Dorian in muscularity, nd even then only at the cost of severe abdominal distension and gross disproportionalities. Game over. ;)

SUCKMYMUSCLE

suckmymuscle

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #7765 on: August 04, 2006, 03:59:35 PM »
Accurate description of construction worker Yates from another thread. Really nails it so to speak:


Yates is someone with a high degree of Celtic ancestry... (Scottish, Irish, or to a lesser degree Welsh) The shape and structure of the calf is indicative that there aren't many Normans/Angles/Saxons in the Yates family tree.

It's a cold adaption seen in Northern dwelling people...

the pattern is usually:

-thick forearms with long muscle bellies inserting at the wrist, not before it... accompanied by broad palms, short stubby fingers and thick knuckles

-elongated lats which cover more of the kidney

-boxy pelvic structure

-bell-shaped ribcage

-proportionately narrow shoulders

-long hamstring muscle bellies and thick knees

-a severely shortened Achilles tendon sometimes accompanied by flat feet

-short, stubby toes

-broad feet that are proprtionately short for the persons height

-an elongated soleus muscle belly that wraps around the (girthy) ankle and extends a full two thirds down the leg

-a thick wraparound gastrocnemius muscle that extends at least halfway down the lower leg

-poor mechanical leverage of the foot (for running), excellent mechanical leverage for calf raises, heel raises or pushing/dragging heavy loads.

This means Dorian's calves will probably never atrophy that much, even if he ceases training them, till age-related muscle wasteage sets in in Dorian's 60's or 70's.

...I'd put good money on Dorian having had red/gingery-brown hair as a child (till 10 or so), or perhaps growing red facial hair as an adult (red ear and nostril hair will come with age), that is associated with the cold-adaptive genes.

Dorian Yates.... the Flex articles say heavy training... the calves say Neanderthal genes.


  Ok, first of all, this isn't even relevnt to discredit Dorian, becuase having "wrap-around" calve muscles and lats that "covers the kidneys" are allgood things as far as bodybuilding goes. The only negative of this critique would be the "boxy ribcage". Ok. That is not good for taper. But the boxy ribcage is what made Dorian so thick from the sides and able to completely dominate the two side mandtories: his side chest shot wouldn't be as thick an impressive as it was without his "boxy ribcage". So, even the "bad" aspects, of Dorian's structures, have some positives to it. Also, this critique strikes me as racist. How is "I bet he hd gingery hair as a child" relevnt to the accessment of his physique as an adult? Is the moron who wrote this a professional anthropologist/anatomist? Probably not. Dorian does have an inferior structure than Coleman's as far as taper goes, but it also hs many, many positives. You don't acknowledge it because you're biased.

SUCKMYMUSCLE
 

pobrecito

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #7766 on: August 04, 2006, 04:01:19 PM »
looks like sucky has recovered from the mental breakdown I afforded him 8)

pobrecito

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #7767 on: August 04, 2006, 04:02:51 PM »
::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

oh look...cumster pumpster got butthurt :-*

suckmymuscle

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #7768 on: August 04, 2006, 04:11:38 PM »

(1) SUCKY only lurks at night now, because he is intimidated, and (2) because SUCKY appears incoherent. ;D

  (1) No: most of my posts are done during the day. You twat. I post at night also because, unlike you, I have a life outside this bord and can't afford to post here 24/7. Intimidated? Yeah ::)...that's probably why I reply to each and every single one of your bullshit posts and call you out on your defective logic on all of them. I'm not running from anything, boy! ;)

  (2) you know what's incoherent? You saying that Dorian won the Olympia many times because he's "marketable". No British guy is as mrketable as having an American winning the thing, you idiot. Why? Because most bodybuilding fans are American! Then, you go on and play the racicism card. Pathetic: most Mr.Olympias have been Black. It is far more PC to have an American Black as the Snadow-holder than a British White guy. You can't be more un-PC than giving the title to a White Anglo-Saxon from England. So, Poop, your conspircy theories are retarded. If anything, it would make far more sense to claim that Weider gave many Olympias to Ronnie, to maintain the PC image of cattering to minorities and nationals.

  [size=20Oh my, Poop, you have been just brutally sodomized by yours truly... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)0pt][/size]

SUCKMYMUSCLE

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #7769 on: August 04, 2006, 04:13:02 PM »
When Dorian ascended to the top of the bodybuilding world, he redefined what it meant to be a mass monster. People look at pictures of Dorian's contemporaries (Levrone, Ray, Wheeler) and wonder why they couldn't beat this titan called "The Shadow" despite their seemingly superior balance and aesthetics. The reason becomes clear when all these men are standing on the same stage:

Dorian dwarfs them!

Yes it's true. Dorian had his own center of gravity. All other competitors were relegated to the status of mere satellites in his orbit. You had to see it in person. "IT" being this beautiful new creature called Dorian Yates. You had to force yourself to look away from this beast.

"The Yates" had it's flaws for sure................... 

but he was too damn massive and defined (grainy if you prefer  :)) to let minor flaws (slight distention, relatively wide waist, small biceps in proportion to his body) stop him from dominating. Nothing like it existed before, and nothing would come close to it again until a new monster called "Big Bubba" began creating his own legend years later.

The problem with Coleman is, he has all Dorian's flaws, but they are even worse on him. Coleman has set the new standard for grotesque deformities. Dorian had distension, Coleman's stomach is far worse! Coleman's stomach is so bad, it absolutely ruins his front double biceps pose. His chest looks flat because of the extreme distention. It just ruins the pose!

The only Mr.Olympia with a REVERSE TAPER!

All this hype about Coleman's size, but to me it looks like "water-logged mass." His conditioning can't touch Dorian's. His abs look weird. Ronnie Coleman just. He looks.... FAT! Much of his weight is in his quads. Just as Dorian set the new standard for mass + conditioning, Coleman can be said to have set the new standard for huge quads. Had Dorian not been set back with a streak of bad luck, he would have increased his quad size to keep up with the trends. He would have continued to put on size, he would have continued to rule as a fucking TITAN amongst mere bodybuilders. Clearly he showed no signs of slowing down. Take both men at the same age and tell me who was bigger? Ronnie peaking at 40, Dorian matching his size with better conditioning in his 30s..........

Dorian is the better man.

  Flawless post. Just flawless. I couldn't have put it better. :D

SUKMYMUSCLE

suckmymuscle

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #7770 on: August 04, 2006, 04:15:33 PM »
looks like sucky has recovered from the mental breakdown I afforded him 8)

  I think you greatly overestimate your relevance on this thread, let alone in life! ;)

SUCKMYMUSCLE

pobrecito

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #7771 on: August 04, 2006, 04:23:23 PM »
  I think you greatly overestimate your relevance on this thread, let alone in life! ;)

SUCKMYMUSCLE

I soon will put you in check much like I did with pumpster 8)

Hulkster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #7772 on: August 04, 2006, 06:01:27 PM »
Virtually no detail or refinement. So smooth you could skate on him. Legs & torso way too big for twigs arms.

agreed.

yates is water logged mass except for the lower back and abs.


even at his very best here in 1993, he was still very smooth in the arms, legs and even chest, at least compared to this:


as we can see, Ronnie in 99 destroys 93 Yates from the front.

What good is conditioning if you lack the genetic predisposition for detailed arms, legs and chest?


ps notice how much better shaped Ronnie's arms legs and chest are..
The dorian fans really have no argument left except for irrelevant data such as numbers, placements and the all mighty inner thigh, forearm and abs ::)

Flower Boy Ran Away

Hulkster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #7773 on: August 04, 2006, 06:03:17 PM »
pobrecito's consecutive run of bad dorian pics looks suspiciously like Sucky's work...
Flower Boy Ran Away

pobrecito

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #7774 on: August 04, 2006, 06:07:23 PM »
pobrecito's consecutive run of bad dorian pics looks suspiciously like Sucky's work...

 :-*