Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce

[suckmymuscle]

Hey Sucky, could you show me where his rhomboids are?

  You can't see them in sub-par bodybuilders, only on those with superb upper-back details...like Dorian.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[pwrnxs]

I thought this thread was Dorian vs Ronnie???  That's Joel Stubbs.

Hey Sucky, could you show me where his rhomboids are?

[NeoSeminole]

You can't see them in sub-par bodybuilders, only on those with superb upper-back details...like Dorian.

Not according to Flex magazine.

[NeoSeminole]

I thought this thread was Dorian vs Ronnie???  That's Joel Stubbs.

You are correct. The reason I posted that pic is b/c Sucky thinks Flex magazine knows more about anatomy than some of us since they have 1 PhD in nutrition, 1 B.A. in literature, and several others with B.S. degrees in who knows what.

[Joey Tito]

This thread has gotten way, way too long.  It's time that somebody stepped in to put their foot down and put an end to it.

That person is me.

Enough is ENOUGH.

I expect no more replies to this thread.

Thank you.

[natural al]

This thread has gotten way, way too long.  It's time that somebody stepped in to put their foot down and put an end to it.

That person is me.

Enough is ENOUGH.

I expect no more replies to this thread.

Thank you.

I admire your determination and conviction but this thread will never end, ever.  After the holocaust there will be 3 things that survive:

1-Roaches

2-Van Halen fans fighting about who's better Sam or Dave.

3-this thread.

[healthiswealth]

  You can't see them in sub-par bodybuilders, only on those with superb upper-back details...like Dorian.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

here's another idiocy to add to your evergrowing list:

You can only see the rhomboids in bodybuilders with "superb upper-back details". Not in bodybuilders like joel stubbs, whom Flex Magazine (your bible) claims to have the greatest back in the world.


Seriously, just shut the fuck up. Your approval seeking must be as appaling as your appearance.

[IceCold]

so here how it goes.


hulkster and pumpster make a point and show the best ronnie pics they can find vs. the worst pics of dorian.

we get the point.

either way, you wont convince me that ronnie would destroy dorian onstage and i wont convice you (hulkster and pumpster) that dorian could be ronnie. 

that's why there is more than 1 judge at each show. 

[pumpster]

you wont convince me that ronnie would destroy dorian onstage and i wont convice you (hulkster and pumpster) that dorian could be ronnie. 

You're about as late to this thread as SUCKY's incoherent. To be frank, your opinion matters not a whit. ESPECIALLY since you've proven that your assessments are extremely biased and are lacking in objectivity with the constant obsession with conditioning as if that's all that matters. Not.

Yates was hugely flawed not to mention low on aesthetics. All the conditioning and density in the world doesn't compensate for that.

[nicorulez]

Once again Sucky, we have an intrinsic idealogic difference in what is great.  In my opinion, notoriety is not greatness; it is to you.  Brad Pitt is famous, good looking and very popular.  However, Osama Bin Laden is infinitely better known worldwide.  Is he a great man?  Was Hitler?  Great men make society take a step forward; they improve society.  Notoriety, popularity and the like are fleeting.  I agree, Dorian had amazing genetics.  He responded to drugs like no other in his time; that is before Ronnie took it to a new level.  Regardless, he is hardly great.  Just because you are popular and the flavor of the moment does not hold juice with me.  Maybe it does to you.  Tom Cruise...if you consider this idiot to be great, more power to you.

[Hulkster]

woah.
 

[IceCold]

You're about as late to this thread as SUCKY's incoherent. To be frank, your opinion matters not a whit. ESPECIALLY since you've proven that your assessments are extremely biased and are lacking in objectivity with the constant obsession with conditioning as if that's all that matters. Not.

Yates was hugely flawed not to mention low on aesthetics. All the conditioning and density in the world doesn't compensate for that.

apparently it does.  NO ONE has had a more dominant career against the level of competition that dorian did.

the judges didnt seem to mind about yates "flaws and low aesthetics". 

me biased?  no one comes close to being as biased like you are with coleman.  no matter what the topic, you seem to bring coleman in some how. 

wrong again hulkster. 

[suckmymuscle]

You're about as late to this thread as SUCKY's incoherent.

  Like you saying that it made more sense, from a business and promotion perspective, for Weider to have a British White guy as Mr.Olympia, rather than a Black man who holds U.S citizenship? This despite the fact that most bodybuilding fans are American? Or calling Dorian a "tier-B" Mr.Olympia, even though he set new standards both for muscularity and conditioning in 1993, and that he won of five of his Olympias with straight-firsts scores from all judges? Poop, I was never that incoherent. You are the queen of logic.

To be frank, your opinion matters not a whit. ESPECIALLY since you've proven that your assessments are extremely biased and are lacking in objectivity with the constant obsession with conditioning as if that's all that matters. Not.

  It seems that all that matters, to you, are biceps. That has been your constant charge against Dorian throughout the thread. You single out that and completely ignores Ronnie's shortcomings. It doesen't even mtter to you that, when they are around the same bodyweight, Dorian destroys Ronnie in overrall muscularity and balance. And that, even though Dorian's arms were never phenomenal, Dorian had the best side triceps mandatory among all Mr.Olympias. The biceps might have been one of Dorian's few liabilities, but the biceps are a small muscle group with little relevance. Certainly not more relvant than calves, at which Dorian destroyed Ronnie.

Yates was hugely flawed not to mention low on aesthetics. All the conditioning and density in the world doesn't compensate for that.

  But Coleman was never a Wheeler when it comes to aesthetics. His does have narrower hips than Dorian, but he also has a long waist and short legs in relation to his upper-body. All things considered, Dorian does have a better overrall structure.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[suckmymuscle]

Once again Sucky, we have an intrinsic idealogic difference in what is great.  In my opinion, notoriety is not greatness; it is to you.  Brad Pitt is famous, good looking and very popular.  However, Osama Bin Laden is infinitely better known worldwide.  Is he a great man?

  Osama might be monster, but that's not relevant in determining greatness. He might, very well, be considered a hero by his people. The king of Qin, Shi Huang Di, who became the first emperor of China, butchered millions of people. But he unified a nation. And the Chinese rever him as the founding father. "Greatness" is a value-judgement, not a function of ethics. From a utilitarian perspective, even the average medical doctor is greater than an olympic gold medalist. But the winner of the gold medal will be revered and considered greater than any doctor by the fans of his sport.

  Furthermore, the concept of greatness is intrinsecally tied to uniqueness and the difficulty in achieving it. Becoming the best in the World at something is much, much more difficult than earning a medical degree. The competitiveness envolved in getting there is ferocious, and very few people have the combination of unique traits necessary to get there. This is why there is a noble prize in medicine: to distinguish the average M.D from one who made a truly substantial contribution to the advencement of medicine. The average M.D just rides the wave...

  I agree, Dorian had amazing genetics.  He responded to drugs like no other in his time; that is before Ronnie took it to a new level.  Regardless, he is hardly great.  Just because you are popular and the flavor of the moment does not hold juice with me.  Maybe it does to you. 

  But there is a difference: in 1993, Dorian took the sport to a new level of muscularity and conditioning while still having a flat abdominal and very separated abs. Ronnie took the sport to a new level of muscularity in 2003, that has never been matched before or since, granted, but he was a mess from a symmetry perspective: you can't win the symmetry round with a massively distended gut. You just can't.

Tom Cruise...if you consider this idiot to be great, more power to you.

  Cruise has the capacity to get a lot of pussy; in my value-judgement, that makes him great.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[Hulkster]

the judges didnt seem to mind about yates "flaws and low aesthetics". 

thats only because he outweighed his closest competitors (flex and shawn) by 30 pounds...

the judges were blinded by size and wide lats.

Blow up Flex and Shawn to Dorian's size, give them lats and he would have lost, no question.  He did not have their quality in general.  Peak Ronnie did except for the abs.

He would have faced something similar to this in a best ever Ronnie Coleman.

[pumpster]

apparently it does.  NO ONE has had a more dominant career against the level of competition that dorian did.

the judges didnt seem to mind about yates "flaws and low aesthetics". 

me biased?   

Ya, you plenty biased-if all you're going to do is recite what judges gave him exactly what value have you added? We already know the history. You're boring, man.

We also know that you persist in highly biased evalutions of Yates that focus only on his attributes while entirely ignoring his huge flaws. All this does is emphasize that you are a groupie.

[suckmymuscle]

He would have faced something similar to this in a best ever Ronnie Coleman.

  Hogwash. Ronnie was already on his game at the 1996 Canada Pro Cup, at which he defeated no other than Wheeler himself! He was 255 lbs. Even heavier than he was at the 1998 Olympia! The reason why he never defeated Dorian at the Olympia, in fact the reason why he never even made a call-out against him, is because Ronnie never had the combination of muscularity, balance and conditioning to defeat The Big Diesel. Dorian muscular quality, around 255 lbs, was simply too much for Ronnie to handle. Better front quads separations are not enough to defeat an opponent who has a thicker and wider back, a thicker chest and vastly superior density and dryness. Ronnie was no match for Dorian and you know it.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[NeoSeminole]

Hogwash. Ronnie was already on his game at the 1996 Canada Pro Cup, at which he defeated no other than Wheeler himself! He was 255 lbs. Even heavier than he was at the 1998 Olympia! The reason why he never defeated Dorian at the Olympia, in fact the reason why he never even made a call-out against him, is because Ronnie never had the combination of muscularity, balance and conditioning to defeat The Big Diesel. Dorian muscular quality, around 255 lbs, was simply too much for Ronnie to handle. Better front quads separations are not enough to defeat an opponent who has a thicker and wider back, a thicker chest and vastly superior density and dryness. Ronnie was no match for Dorian and you know it.

Why are you comparing Dorian at his prime to Ronnie before he reached his peak? This debate is which bodybuilder would win against the other at their respective bests. Who cares what Ronnie looked like in 1996? Are you telling me he looked his best 2 yrs BEFORE he won the Mr. Olympia? The reason Ronnie never defeated Dorian is b/c he didn't reach his peak. It's simple as that. I believe Ronnie in 03 would destroy any version of Dorian. Ronnie presented a combination of muscularity, conditioning, and symmetry that has never been seen before. Even Dorian in 95 (arguably his best year) would be no match. Dorian was over 20 lbs lighter and had a torn biceps.

[LyricTenor]

Why are you comparing Dorian at his prime to Ronnie before he reached his peak? This debate is which bodybuilder would win against the other at their respective bests. Who cares what Ronnie looked like in 1996? Are you telling me he looked his best 2 yrs BEFORE he won the Mr. Olympia? The reason Ronnie never defeated Dorian is b/c he didn't reach his peak. It's simple as that. I believe Ronnie in 03 would destroy any version of Dorian. Ronnie presented a combination of muscularity, conditioning, and symmetry that has never been seen before. Even Dorian in 95 (arguably his best year) would be no match. Dorian was over 20 lbs lighter and had a torn biceps.

lol wth??   Did you just attack our side for comparing a peak dorian to a non peak coleman???  Man you are dense as hell.  For the love of god read a few of Pumpster's posts.  Please, humor me.  My god you first sentence just blows my mind.

[suckmymuscle]

Why are you comparing Dorian at his prime to Ronnie before he reached his peak?

  But he had aleady reached his peak! 260 lbs with great taper and cross-striations all through his body! Good enough to defeat flex Wheeler! What you Ronnie fans fail to understand is this: Ronnie's best was not good enough to defeat Dorian Yates. At around 255 lbs, the weight both of them are at their best, Dorian is more muscular, with superior balance and conditioning. Ronnie became Mr.Olympia, in 1998, because Dorian retired. Mind you, even with a torn biceps and triceps and the principles of a gut, Dorian still won the 1997 Olympia with straight-firsts scores from all judges! So let's cut this crap of how Dorian retired because his time had come, because he could have won for at least another three years if he wanted to.

This debate is which bodybuilder would win against the other at their respective bests. Who cares what Ronnie looked like in 1996? Are you telling me he looked his best 2 yrs BEFORE he won the Mr. Olympia?

  Yes. At the Canada Pro Cup, Ronnie was 260 lbs with a phenomenal taper and had striations all over his body. Once again, he defeated Flex Wheeler, who, by the way, looked fantastic at that contest. He was 11 lbs heavier than at the 1998 Olympia and his separations were just as good! The reason why Ronnie didn't win the Olympia in 1996 instead of 1998 is one only: Dorian Yates was still competing, and his 260 lbs were of an even higher quality than Ronnie's.

The reason Ronnie never defeated Dorian is b/c he didn't reach his peak. It's simple as that. I believe Ronnie in 03 would destroy any version of Dorian. Ronnie presented a combination of muscularity, conditioning, and symmetry that has never been seen before. Even Dorian in 95 (arguably his best year) would be no match. Dorian was over 20 lbs lighter and had a torn biceps.

  Symmetry?! You can't have great symmetry with a distended gut, which Ronnie definitely had in 2003. And by the way, a 255 lbs Dorian defeated several 280+ lbs guys like Nasser, Dillet and Jean-Pierre Fux. He had no problems defeating guys who outweighed him by 30 lbs or more. The judges might give the 2003 Olympia Ronnie the nod over Dorian on muscularity alone, but Dorian had a far more complete physique when compared to the 2003 Ronnie, with better taper, superior abdominal separations, better balance from head to toe and a flat stomach. You're right that the judges would probably give the nod to the 2003 Ronnie, because sheer muscle girth at the expense of everyhting else is all that seems to matter in modern bodybuilding. But this is irrelevant when judging who was better as a bodybuilder, because the 1995 Dorian was far more complete and with less flaws than the 2003 Ronnie.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[NeoSeminole]

lol wth??   Did you just attack our side for comparing a peak dorian to a non peak coleman???  Man you are dense as hell.  For the love of god read a few of Pumpster's posts.  Please, humor me.  My god you first sentence just blows my mind.

I honestly have no clue what you just said. So I will respond to the best of my abilities. I didn't attack your "side." My post was directed at Sucky b/c he was comparing Dorian at his prime to Ronnie before he reached his peak. How does this make me dense?

[NeoSeminole]

Sucky, you are out of your f*cking mind if you think Ronnie reached his peak 2 yrs BEFORE he won the Mr. Olympia.

[NeoSeminole]

You still haven't shown me where his rhomboids are. Apparently, the "PhD's" at Flex magazine can see them.

[IceCold]

thats only because he outweighed his closest competitors (flex and shawn) by 30 pounds...

the judges were blinded by size and wide lats.

Blow up Flex and Shawn to Dorian's size, give them lats and he would have lost, no question.  He did not have their quality in general.  Peak Ronnie did except for the abs.

He would have faced something similar to this in a best ever Ronnie Coleman.

nasser was 270 and levrone was 240-250.

flex and kevin were also runner ups to 4 of coleman's win. except for 98, coleman outweighed them both by at least 20 lbs.   cutler having the other 4.


making flex and shawn the same size as dorian?  a bit too hypothetical.  blow up shawn to ronnie's size and he would have beaten ronnie easier than he would be dorian.

[IceCold]

Ya, you plenty biased-if all you're going to do is recite what judges gave him exactly what value have you added? We already know the history. You're boring, man.

We also know that you persist in highly biased evalutions of Yates that focus only on his attributes while entirely ignoring his huge flaws. All this does is emphasize that you are a groupie.

i have not ignored dorian's huge flaws.  you and hulkster are the one who refuses to realize that coleman is not perfect.  you never state his flaws. and if you do, its just another excuse.  like calves dont matter or a huge gut.

dorians biceps werent all that good before he tore it.  so it wasnt a huge effect once it was damaged.  it would be like coleman tearing his calves or triceps (which we should see this year). 

all i've ever said is that with dorian's mass and conditioning it would be very competitive between him and coleman.  you constanstly shit on dorian making him the same quality bber as king kamali while stating how great coleman is despite the fact that yates dominated better competition and beat some of the best bbers of all time in their prime.  while coleman hasnt even come close to yates domination even with less quality competition, based on the score sheets, him loosing the 2001 mr. o, challenge rounds to gustavo, and the GNC show to gunter.