Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce

[pobrecito]

Ok folks, I have just watched the 93, 98, and 99 Olympias and will make an unbiased assesment here.

We will start with 1998. Ronnie was not dominant. Let me expand on that. From the rear, he was the best in the field, hands down. The front was a different story however. His quads were not as separated as we have seen at his best, and I feel his lower body overpowered his upper body as at 248lbs he had still not achieved his best weight. Now the real thing that really brought Ronnie down in my book was the gyno on his left nipple. It was very bad and completely ruined his front double bicep pose. In fact, in the top 6 posedown you see Cormier standing next to Ronnie both hitting front double bis. Chris definitely looked better. Now, I do have to give a little props to ND as I know he has said this many times. After watching the video, I am truly surprised they didn't go with Flex on name alone. He looked better than Ronnie from the front and was a little more separated. Ronnie dominated from the rear though like Yates, so I can't say this victory was any more controversial than any of Yates' wins. Also, Ronnie seemed very overawed in the final posedown. He kept following Flex around and seemed shocked to be that far. Also wanted to add, Hulkster always claims Ronnie was overlooked in 1998. As far as I could tell he was in the first call out with Nasser and Flex. Also, before the show it was obvious from the fans that the three favorites were Nasser Flex and Ronnie. Ronnie was anything but a darkhorse in 98.

Now, 1993. DRY. This is the best conditioning I have seen on the olympia stage. 257lbs rock solid. Yates' flaws however are lack of thigh separation, and overall shape. Still though, it is my opinion that 93 Yates beats 98 Coleman due to more size and better conditioning.

Finally, 1999. First words that came to my mouth seeing Coleman in prejudging: "oh my god"
Ronnie in 1999 put on 10lbs of muscle and did it in all the right places. His thighs were far more separated than 1998 and his taper was dramatically improved. I also feel his upper body caught up to his lower body and he looked completely balanced. His conditioning was also superior to 98. Whereas Cormier matched or exceeded Coleman from the front in 98 in my opinion, Ronnie just completely destroyed him in the prejudging. Flex was never in the picture. 1999 Ronnie Coleman seen at the Olympia was the greatest physique ever seen in the IFBB. He equalled Yates' size, yet his shape just blows Yates' away. He also came in very close to Yates' 93 condition. Not quite as dry, but looking fuller and more striated. Yates had a more depleted look to him (If you check his words, he said he sacrificed to much muscle for improved condition in 93).

[IceCold]

I have made this argument many times and the yates fans still don't get it.



ronnie was flex blown up and given lats...

good bye to this:

flex with lats or anyone still couldnt stand next to this mass and conditioning - regardless of dorian's flaws.  i've made this argument many times and you still dont get it. 





round and round we go. 

[IceCold]

Ok folks, I have just watched the 93, 98, and 99 Olympias and will make an unbiased assesment here.

just out of curiosity, did you order all 3 Olympia's?

where did you see them?  they arent online or on youtube.  especially, 93??

[delta9mda]

jesus.

I am trying to say that Coleman IS Wheeler WITH 30 more pounds and better conditioning. That's what Ronnie IS. That is not hypothetical, and there is countless pictoral and video evidence to show this.

"I am trying to say that Coleman IS Wheeler WITH 30 more pounds and better conditioning"
no that is toney freeman

[NeoSeminole]

flex with lats or anyone still couldnt stand next to this mass and conditioning - regardless of dorian's flaws.  i've made this argument many times and you still dont get it.

I beg to differ.

[pumpster]

We will start with 1998. Ronnie was not dominant. Let me expand on that. From the rear, he was the best in the field, hands down. The front was a different story however. His quads were not as separated as we have seen at his best, and I feel his lower body overpowered his upper body as at 248lbs he had still not achieved his best weight. Now the real thing that really brought Ronnie down in my book was the gyno on his left nipple. It was very bad and completely ruined his front double bicep pose. In fact, in the top 6 posedown you see Cormier standing next to Ronnie both hitting front double bis. Chris definitely looked better. Now, I do have to give a little props to ND as I know he has said this many times. After watching the video, I am truly surprised they didn't go with Flex on name alone. He looked better than Ronnie from the front and was a little more separated. Ronnie dominated from the rear though like Yates, so I can't say this victory was any more controversial than any of Yates' wins. Also, Ronnie seemed very overawed in the final posedown. He kept following Flex around and seemed shocked to be that far. Also wanted to add, Hulkster always claims Ronnie was overlooked in 1998. As far as I could tell he was in the first call out with Nasser and Flex. Also, before the show it was obvious from the fans that the three favorites were Nasser Flex and Ronnie. Ronnie was anything but a darkhorse in 98.

Now, 1993. DRY. This is the best conditioning I have seen on the olympia stage. 257lbs rock solid. Yates' flaws however are lack of thigh separation, and overall shape. Still though, it is my opinion that 93 Yates beats 98 Coleman due to more size and better conditioning.

Finally, 1999. First words that came to my mouth seeing Coleman in prejudging: "oh my god"
Ronnie in 1999 put on 10lbs of muscle and did it in all the right places. His thighs were far more separated than 1998 and his taper was dramatically improved. I also feel his upper body caught up to his lower body and he looked completely balanced. His conditioning was also superior to 98. Whereas Cormier matched or exceeded Coleman from the front in 98 in my opinion, Ronnie just completely destroyed him in the prejudging. Flex was never in the picture. 1999 Ronnie Coleman seen at the Olympia was the greatest physique ever seen in the IFBB. He equalled Yates' size, yet his shape just blows Yates' away. He also came in very close to Yates' 93 condition. Not quite as dry, but looking fuller and more striated. Yates had a more depleted look to him (If you check his words, he said he sacrificed to much muscle for improved condition in 93).

Sounds about right. Yates' conditioning-leaness + dryness, was outrageous, but he also had some major flaws that made him beatable by someone like Coleman in very very good shape albeit not quite on Yates' level, but with a lot more to offer in terms of balance, overall size, taper, shape and aesthetics.

When you get guys in their very best condition, it usually boils down to fundamentals like structure, shape, taper & balance; things that conditioning can't compensate for.

[IceCold]

Sounds about right. Yates' conditioning-leaness + dryness, was outrageous, but he also had some major flaws that made him beatable by someone like Coleman in very very good shape albeit not quite on Yates' level, but with a lot more to offer in terms of balance, overall size, taper, shape and aesthetics.

When you get guys in their very best condition, it usually boils down to fundamentals like structure, shape, taper & balance; things that conditioning can't compensate for.

true, but sometimes the results give a different message.

namely, dorian beating guys like flex, shawn,kevin, and nasser.

all at one point or anothere were at their best and went against dorian - and lost.  they all had less flaws that you claim dorian had.  was it politics?  possibly, but sometimes picking the winner aint so easy just based on descriptions listed on paper.  perhaps what they acutally look like in person is different than videos and pictures. 

for instance, dorian's combo and mass and conditioning could have been so impressive to the judges that they overlooked everything else that you say mattered.  on another bber, it may have been different and he could have lost to other bbers despite being just big and hard - like dorian. 

mike francois' victories also come to mind. 

[pumpster]

true, but sometimes the results give a different message.

namely, dorian beating guys like flex, shawn,kevin, and nasser.

all at one point or anothere were at their best and went against dorian - and lost.  they all had less flaws that you claim dorian had.  was it politics?  possibly, but sometimes picking the winner aint so easy just based on descriptions listed on paper.  perhaps what they acutally look like in person is different than videos and pictures.

1/ Politics played a big part in some cases; it's a commercial enterprise answerable to no one.

2/ Some of those guys did deserve to beat Yates, some years. Deal with it; Yates actually lost save for Weider's propensity to go with proven winners.

3/ Apparently I have to explain the basics: some of those guys evidentally had less flaws than Yates, but weren't as dense or highly conditioned as Yates nor as great as Coleman in other aspects. Equates to closer contests, but ones that they still deserved to win in some cases.

[pobrecito]

All you need to do is watch BFTO 2002. Coleman was in his 1999O form, although MORE grainy, with roughly 15lbs more mass. That was the new standard.

[NeoSeminole]

true, but sometimes the results give a different message.

namely, dorian beating guys like flex, shawn,kevin, and nasser.

all at one point or anothere were at their best and went against dorian - and lost.  they all had less flaws that you claim dorian had.  was it politics?  possibly, but sometimes picking the winner aint so easy just based on descriptions listed on paper.  perhaps what they acutally look like in person is different than videos and pictures.

Flex and Shawn were too small to handle Dorian. Kevin and Nasser both had the size to compete with Dorian, but couldn't touch Dorian on back which the judges seem to favor. Ronnie at his prime combined the shape of Flex, the size of Nasser, and had a back comparable to Dorian.

[Hulkster]

Ronnie in 1999 put on 10lbs of muscle and did it in all the right places. His thighs were far more separated than 1998 and his taper was dramatically improved. I also feel his upper body caught up to his lower body and he looked completely balanced. His conditioning was also superior to 98. Whereas Cormier matched or exceeded Coleman from the front in 98 in my opinion, Ronnie just completely destroyed him in the prejudging. Flex was never in the picture. 1999 Ronnie Coleman seen at the Olympia was the greatest physique ever seen in the IFBB. He equalled Yates' size, yet his shape just blows Yates' away. He also came in very close to Yates' 93 condition. Not quite as dry, but looking fuller and more striated.

well said. The 99 video of Ronnie is unreal, and the prejudging mandatories even better.

His conditioning was also superior to 98.

I have always said this but ND still maintains that Ronnie had a film of water over him compared to 98. If ND actually watched the videos and not simply glanced at a few mistimed pics, he too would realize this also..


look at the detail. No film of water at all..

[Hulkster]

Ronnie at his prime combined the shape of Flex, the size of Nasser, and had a back comparable to Dorian.

agreed.

[Hulkster]

All you need to do is watch BFTO 2002. Coleman was in his 1999O form, although MORE grainy, with roughly 15lbs more mass. That was the new standard.

agreed - but since the standard was not set onstage, we have to go with what was set onstage in front of the judges, which was this:



from the 99 Mr. O...

Appears to have the same level of detail as at the Arnold Classic, but with a bit more size, but much less of a gut and no obliques...

[IceCold]

i think coleman was a tad sharper at the AC in 2001 than the 99 Mr. O.

[pobrecito]

i think coleman was a tad sharper at the AC in 2001 than the 99 Mr. O.

2001AC ronnie was basically his 1998 form without the horrid gyno. 1999 was better.

[pobrecito]

fuck, I don't know guys. I just watched Dorian's 93O routine again. Fuck, his conditioning was unbelievable and his waist was super tight, his thighs actually looked good, and those calves really do make a huge difference, especially after you watch Ronnie's 99 routine. Crowd went fucking nuts too.

I do have some thoughts though on "politics" in the olympia.

Before Dorian went out the announcer said  "Dorian Yates 257lbs of hardcore muscle" and the crowd went nuts.

In 1998, Lee Haney introduced Ronnie, yet he did that with no one else

[Hulkster]

For the record, IceCold, the last two sentences of the Musclemag Mr. O. 94 report reads:

"all I know is that a Mr. Olympia should be as close to perfect as possible. Given such ground rules, it would be mighty hard to deny Shawn Ray".

Despite "doiminating" the 90s, even back then people were wondering how he won sometimes.

[IceCold]

For the record, IceCold, the last two sentences of the Musclemag Mr. O. 94 report reads:

"all I know is that a Mr. Olympia should be as close to perfect as possible. Given such ground rules, it would be mighty hard to deny Shawn Ray".

Despite "doiminating" the 90s, even back then people were wondering how he won sometimes.

well, i dont know about mr. olympia being perfect.  shawn was more perfect than dorian.  i guess you could interpret 'perfect' as the fewest flaws.  mr. olymia isnt about who was the fewest flaws, but who has the best package that day.  shawn was just too small to compete with dorian, despite how perfect he was. 

[IceCold]

For the record, IceCold, the last two sentences of the Musclemag Mr. O. 94 report reads:

"all I know is that a Mr. Olympia should be as close to perfect as possible. Given such ground rules, it would be mighty hard to deny Shawn Ray".

Despite "doiminating" the 90s, even back then people were wondering how he won sometimes.

in that quote, it says nothing about that dorian should have lost. 


also, i think it has something to do with that cliche saying: you have to knockout the champ. you just cant beat him'.

that means that you really have to be so much better than the current Mr. Olympia to beat him.  that's true even with coleman, zane, arnold, etc.  shawn may have been very good, but did he have enough to beat dorian that day.  no.

that's why there have been only 2 Mr. Olympias that lost in defending their title - arnold beating sergio and haney beating samir. 

[IceCold]

f**k, I don't know guys. I just watched Dorian's 93O routine again. f**k, his conditioning was unbelievable and his waist was super tight, his thighs actually looked good, and those calves really do make a huge difference, especially after you watch Ronnie's 99 routine. Crowd went fucking nuts too.

I do have some thoughts though on "politics" in the olympia.

Before Dorian went out the announcer said  "Dorian Yates 257lbs of hardcore muscle" and the crowd went nuts.

In 1998, Lee Haney introduced Ronnie, yet he did that with no one else

finally seeing the light, huh?

at least now you can admit that ronnie would not crush dorian.  if he beat him, it would be very close.  that's all i've ever claimed. 


also, yates wasnt even called out during prejuding - he was that dominant.  that's something that hasnt happened to ronnie and never will. 

[Hulkster]

in that quote, it says nothing about that dorian should have lost.

what are you talking about? of course it does.

If you want me to quote the whole last paragraph, I will.

the article clearly states that Dorian should not have won.

eg. "other than dorian's middle back, which is one of the most mind-boggling sites in modern bodybuilding, there was little else about the big man's phyisque that overshadowed Shawn's"

[pobrecito]

finally seeing the light, huh?

at least now you can admit that ronnie would not crush dorian.  if he beat him, it would be very close.  that's all i've ever claimed. 


also, yates wasnt even called out during prejuding - he was that dominant.  that's something that hasnt happened to ronnie and never will. 

I've always praised Dorian's 93 showing. I just think Ronnie in 99 was better. He had the mass and aesthetics. In 99, Ronnie could hit Flex's signature shot and look amazing.

[suckmymuscle]

Ronnie in 03 might not have the same conditioning he presented in 98, but he wasn't far off. His sheer muscularity would prove too much for Dorian to compete with.

  Ronnie 2003 wasn't even good, let alone great. This should not be the standard-bearer. A Mr.Olympia an't look like like a pregnant water-buffalo, or a character rom the film "Alien", ho's impregnated with an alien queen.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[pobrecito]

  Ronnie 2003 wasn't even good, let alone great. This should not be the standard-bearer. A Mr.Olympia an't look like like a pregnant water-buffalo, or a character rom the film "Alien", ho's impregnated with an alien queen.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

You can't have it both ways. Yates had a gut too. Plus, that picture is from the 2004 olympia.

[suckmymuscle]

For the record, IceCold, the last two sentences of the Musclemag Mr. O. 94 report reads:

"all I know is that a Mr. Olympia should be as close to perfect as possible. Given such ground rules, it would be mighty hard to deny Shawn Ray".

Despite "doiminating" the 90s, even back then people were wondering how he won sometimes.

  Quote from Peter McGough, FLEX, 2004:

  "No bodybuilder has ever been as hard and conditioned as the man who won six Sandows."

  Quote, Julian Schmidt, FLEX, on the review of the 1995 Olympia:

  "Dorian Yates is the thickest, most annealed bodybuilder in history. The scary thing is that, at close to 260 lbs, his skin is as thin as rice paper."

  Quote, Bob Kennedy, MuscleMag, on the review o the 1993 Olympia:

  "Dorian won easily last year. And amazingly, this year, he makes his previous version look like an amateur's physique. He has set a standard for size and dryness that will assure that, for years to come, the other Olympia competitors ill be battling or second place."

  Quote, Bob Hoffman, Ironman Magazine, on the review of the 1996 Olympia:

  "As for Dorian Yates, I have only three words: human anatomy chart. And an oversized one at that!"

SUCKMYMUSCLE