Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce

[suckmymuscle]

PUMPSTER, WHERE IS YOUR RESONSE


PUMPSTER

in your infinite wisdom, please help us out. 

since you are a top IFBB judge, please explain to us the judging criteria?  if size and conditioning dont matter, please inform us as to what does matter. 

is the olympia really just a biceps contest? 

also, please explain the politcs surrounding yates' victories considering that he lives in england and has vritually zero mainstream appeal in the US and what was so 'political' about him winning. 

if he was as bad as some people on this board claim.  yes, i am not lying. some people actually consider him not to be a good bodybuilder, why was he Mr. Olympia.  i dont see the point in 'giving' him the title every year if he was so bad.  why yates?  just to generate controversy and interest?

doesnt make much sense.  but since you are a top IFBB judge, i'm sure you'll let us know the truth. 

lastly, please explain to us the UNIMPORTANCE of keeping score cards.  i thought that bbing shows are judged and the winner has the lowest score.  but people on this board, yes this very board, discredit the scores/numbers saying they have no importance.

i'm confused.  if they have no importance, then why bother with the score sheets anyways. 

are the 'real' winners really just based on getbig members opinions?  despite the fact that a certain bber beat the other best bbers of all time in a completly dominating fashion.  does that count for anything?

pumpster,

thanks for clearing all of this up for us at getbig.  with your years as a top IFBB judge (i mean to call yates and haney tier b olympians, you must really know something that WE ALL dont and have years and years judging the absolute highest bbing shows), I'm sure many answers will be answered. 

thanks, pumpster, we all appreciate it.

 

  Icy, I posted this exact same query to Pumpster dozens of pages ago, calling him out for his faulty logic. How exactly having a White Anglo-Saxon from Britain makes sense from a commerical aspect is inexplicable. It is the ultimate in political incorrectness.

  Furthermore, Americans tend to be more nationalistic than racist, so it's unlikely that having a White Man who's a foreigner win the Sandow would make the sport more popular, among White Americans, than having a Black Man who's a national.

  And finally, why the lack of consistency? I mean, if there was a conspiracy to make Dorian win in virtue of him being White, then why did the judges reward Haney the victory over Dorian despite the fact that Yates defeated him the muscularity round? And why did Haney defeat so many White Men, from the U.S, for seven years in a row before that? If the I.F.B.B was willing to give the nod to a Black Man over all-American White Guys, then why would make a foreigner win without deserving it? Pumpster didn't reply, for the simple reason that he's unintelligent and knows that he proposed a faulty hypothesis for why Dorian was a standard-bearer for so many years. These Coleman fans are hopeless.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[suckmymuscle]

Dorian "twigs" Yates as his arms actually looked like without being morphed, seen here being manhandled (again). Arms significantly smaller than those of his competitors:

  Define bad, Pumpy? Dorian's arms had the thickest forearms in history, looked the best in the side triceps shot and, despite the not so great biceps, his arms taped at 21" in contest condition. This may not be spectacular for a Mr.Olympia, but is is still fucking big when you're at 3% bodyfat and dehydrated. But then, at 257 lbs, Dorian's triceps and forearms were more massive than Ronnie's, and they had qualities that Ronnie's triceps and forearms lacked, such as hardness and striations. Look at the sided triceps comparison between Dorian and Ronnie, both of them at around 257 lbs, and you'll see that Dorian edges Ronnie out both in triceps muscularity and separations. Add to that that the threre heads of Dorian's deltoids are more proportional in relation to each other and you realize that Dorian is the winner. I don't think Ronnie's arms were that much biger than Dorian's at the1999 Olympia, and the Dorian compensates the small difference in overrall size with better size size and separation in his triceps. Remeber than Ronnie's advantage in overrall arm size, in 1999, was very small and all due to his bigger biceps.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[NeoSeminole]

Dorian's arms had the thickest forearms in history, looked the best in the side triceps shot and, despite the not so great biceps, his arms taped at 21" in contest condition. This may not be spectacular for a Mr.Olympia, but is is still fucking big when you're at 3% bodyfat and dehydrated.

Who gives a shit? The judges don't get onstage and measure each bodybuilder. Dorian's arms could measure 30" for all I care. Bodybuilding is about illusion. The fact is, Dorian's arms looked like twigs sticking out of a tree trunk.

But then, at 257 lbs, Dorian's triceps and forearms were more massive than Ronnie's, and they had qualities that Ronnie's triceps and forearms lacked, such as hardness and striations. Look at the sided triceps comparison between Dorian and Ronnie, both of them at around 257 lbs, and you'll see that Dorian edges Ronnie out both in triceps muscularity and separations.

You lost your damn mind son. Ronnie's triceps kill Dorian's in overall muscularity and striations.

[Hulkster]

ha ha ha, lay down the pipe ND. I find it pathetic how you make bold claims like "Dorian pwns Ronnie in side chest" but offer no proof to back up your words. Then when someone provides a photo comparison, you start making excuses.

ND has done that throughout this entire thread.



Dorian's side chest has NEVER been better than ronnie's.

what is really sad is this thread is probably the own known instance in recorded history of anyone trying to argue otherwise..

[Hulkster]

search the thread and your comparisions are heavily biased towards Ronnie thats no excuse thats plainly obvious

oh please. just because Ronnie is better than dorian due to better muscle shape, taper, detail and vascularity does NOT mean that the comparisons were "biased against dorian".

it simply means Ronnie has a better physqiue.

nothing more.

[pumpster]

Define bad, Pumpy? Dorian's arms had the thickest forearms in history

SUCKMYLOG resorting to the forearms card, equals...

D-E-S-P-E-R-A-T-E..

[Hulkster]

yates: "Blimey! I wish I was that good during me career! Bullocks!"

 

[sculpture]

Pork yates lookin great for his age. 

[img]

[the shadow]

jesus will this thread ever end or not..these 2 ass camps of coleman and yates have licked their idols ass 9800 times..pathetic

[nicorulez]

  Icy, I posted this exact same query to Pumpster dozens of pages ago, calling him out for his faulty logic. How exactly having a White Anglo-Saxon from Britain makes sense from a commerical aspect is inexplicable. It is the ultimate in political incorrectness.

  Furthermore, Americans tend to be more nationalistic than racist, so it's unlikely that having a White Man who's a foreigner win the Sandow would make the sport more popular, among White Americans, than having a Black Man who's a national.

  And finally, why the lack of consistency? I mean, if there was a conspiracy to make Dorian win in virtue of him being White, then why did the judges reward Haney the victory over Dorian despite the fact that Yates defeated him the muscularity round? And why did Haney defeat so many White Men, from the U.S, for seven years in a row before that? If the I.F.B.B was willing to give the nod to a Black Man over all-American White Guys, then why would make a foreigner win without deserving it? Pumpster didn't reply, for the simple reason that he's unintelligent and knows that he proposed a faulty hypothesis for why Dorian was a standard-bearer for so many years. These Coleman fans are hopeless.

SUCKMYMUSCLE


Excellent point Sucky, American are xenophobic for the most part.  Do we root for the American basketball team (predominantly black) or the Serbians or Brazilians (mostly white) in the World Games or the the Olympics? Naturally, we root for the red, white and blue.  To state that Yates won because he is white is fallacy.  If that were the case, they could have picked many a white American bodybuilder like Labrada, Gaspari before him, Francois, and even Strydom.  They did not; Haney won.  Doz took over because he was the best during his reign.  Although he was suspect looking in a couple of his wins and definitely did not deserve straight firsts; he always came into the show in shape.  Moreover, he was a quiet and humble champion who went away for a year to England, trained like a beast, and came back and won the Mr. Olympia quite convincingly at times.  Give the man his props; he is a legend.  He did not win because he was white.  We would have chosen a paper "American" champion, ala Gutler, if we were playing the race card.  So, although I may fall into Camp Coleman for the most part (except this year...poor performance), I totally concur that Doz was awesome.  In fact, his foresight in realizing that his time had come and leaving on top make him that much more inspiring.  For gods sakes fellows, give the man his due; he was an incredible bodybuilder.  At his worst (except 1997), he would destroy todays Mr. Olympia (Gutler) in any contest.  Cutler is who these guys should be ragging on.  Doz deserves respect for being a great champ.  Leave the man alone and stop bashing him at every turn.

[pumpster]

How exactly having a White Anglo-Saxon from Britain makes sense from a commerical aspect is inexplicable. It is the ultimate in political incorrectness.

The problem with your logic is that it's too simplistic. You guys continue to think in absolutes, which is immediately absurd & child-like. Apparently I have to inform you that there's all sorts of  nuance at play; anything too overt would hurt the IFBB.

Yates would in fact sell more mags and supplements than the other guys he competed against who were close, none of whom happened to be caucasian. A white anglo-saxon has a big advantage when the alternatives are perceived as less appealing. BTW it's no coincidence that all the Yates ballhuggers here are white.

In short gentlemen, race does matter when other factors are more or less equal, and when it's not too obvious. Were any of the central characters in Pumping Iron black, despite the fact that some of the top guys of the day were? Race mattered with Oliva, it mattered with Robinson & Fox who on merit should have won a few. Flex Wheeler, Dillet & Levrone, especially in '97 when Yates was ready to be taken. It would have mattered with Coleman had there been anyone in his league.

[suckmymuscle]

Who gives a shit? The judges don't get onstage and measure each bodybuilder. Dorian's arms could measure 30" for all I care. Bodybuilding is about illusion. The fact is, Dorian's arms looked like twigs sticking out of a tree trunk.

  Little boy, my point is that you pointing out this supposed disproportionality is laughable, because Coleman's are far greater than Dorian's. And furthermore, Ronnie's assymetries, such as his distended gut, sub-calves in relation to his quads and his huge ass represent a much greater liabilities from many more differrent angle than Dorian's triceps from the back in relation to his lats. Please, that's laughable!

You lost your damn mind son. Ronnie's triceps kill Dorian's in overall muscularity and striations.

  You are refering to the 2003 Ronnie, boy? Well, his triceps were certainly bigger, but they lacked the striation that Dorian's have and Dorian still wins the side triceps shot flat out, both when it comes to muscularity as well as symmetry. The Ronnie from 1998/9 could match Dorian for triceps striations, but the 2003 Ronnie can only take Dorian's out for size. You're seriously out of your mind if you think that Ronnie's triceps were ever in any ways comparable to Dorian's at the same time both for muscularity and symmetry: the 2003 Ronnie might have the nod in the former categtory but not the latter. You lose...again.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[pumpster]

You are refering to the 2003 Ronnie, boy? Well, his triceps were certainly bigger, but they lacked the striation that Dorian's have and Dorian still wins the side triceps shot flat out, both when it comes to muscularity as well as symmetry.

Self-delusion at it's continued best-admits Coleman's huge size advantage, which is evident in most shots, then tries to pretend that one friggin side shot that Coleman's very close on by the way, makes up for all the other shortcomings. Some desperate theory about Coleman's tris being "too short" that no one else sees or buys. hahahaahahahahahahah

[delta9mda]

lets go for a record breaking 400. ron, you should sticky this

[suckmymuscle]

SUCKMYLOG resorting to the forearms card, equals...

D-E-S-P-E-R-A-T-E..

  Funny that you quoted only this part of my post, huh, Pumpy. Dorian has not only the thicker forearms, but also the better triceps when it counts. In fact, two thirds of the arms' mass is triceps, and Dorian's triceps are just as big as the 1998/9 Ronnie, but also have better quality overrall and are in balance with the entire arm complex, which includes, besides the biceps and forearms, also the deltoid heads. And Dorian's three deltoid heads are more proportionally developed at 257 lbs than Ronnie's. Not only that, but Dorian's triceps are better when it counts: while doing the side triceps mandatory. Like Ronnie's biceps are superior in the front double biceps mandatory. Dorian's triceps are at least as massive as Ronnie's, but with greater hardness, striations and quality - because it inserts lower in the tendon -, and Dorian also has greater symmetry in this pose, with etched serratus, better calves, more proportional deltoids, etc. Just like Ronnie in the front double biceps. So, saying that Ronnie had the better arms is wrong, because there are several aspects og the arm complex at whcih Dorian is better. Nice try, reducing artms to the biceps peak.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

  

[suckmymuscle]

yates: "Blimey! I wish I was that good during me career! Bullocks!"

 

  Dorian won 5 out of his six Olympias with straight-firsts scores from all judges in all the rounds, and went out on top. Ronnie, conversely, had several close calls, lost to Gunther at the GNC Show of Strengh in 2002, a very minor show, and was de-throned onstage, something which haven't happened to a reigning standard-bearer for over two decades. All things considered, it's Coleman who could only dream of having a pro career like Dorian's, and it makes your post the ultimate in stupidity.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[suckmymuscle]

  Pumpy, me and IceCold are still waiting for you to explain how having a White Anglo-Saxon from Britain, as the standard-bearer, makes more commercial sense than having a Black national. That would be the ultimate in political incorrectness. We're still waiting for your reply, Pumpy, which you have avoided giving for some 150 pages now

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[Hulkster]

sucky, how can you knowingly type that Yates' arms have "better quality muscle" overall than Ronnie?



are you on crack? Dorian's crack perhaps?

[pumpster]

Dorian has not only the thicker forearms, but also the better triceps when it counts. In fact, two thirds of the arms' mass is triceps, and Dorian's triceps are just as big as the 1998/9 Ronnie

SUCKMYLOG like ND, keeps recycling the same arguments that have been previously disproved:

"Better triceps where it counts" is just SUCKY wishing so, with no proof whatsoever.

It has been proven repeatedly that Coleman's tris are much much bigger, which is why SUCKY has been unable to show Yates with any tri size in overhead shots-he's only got the one side-shot. 

[NarcissisticDeity]

ND resorting to morphed shots-surprise surprise his arm grew to twice the size of the 2nd shot! hahahaahahahahaah

The second one shows the true (lack of) size, along with the usual ugly-ass shape and absence of detail:

Its NOT A photoshoped picture that is from Flex magaiznes coverage of the 1993 Mr Olympia I can post the whole page and make you look like a bigger idiot than you already are of you like? 

[pumpster]

Pumpy, me and IceCold are still waiting for you to explain how having a White Anglo-Saxon from Britain, as the standard-bearer, makes more commercial sense than having a Black national. That would be the ultimate in political incorrectness. We're still waiting for your reply, Pumpy, which you have avoided giving for some 150 pages now

You're truly naive. Was Schwarzenegger physically better than Oliva? Zane better than Robinson? Funny coincidence the black guy never won. DUH!

SUCKY find me one example of a white guy physically far superior to a black BB who lost. hahahahaahahahahh

[suckmymuscle]

Yates would in fact sell more mags and supplements than the other guys he competed against who were close, none of whom happened to be caucasian.

  Bullshit! If that were the case, then why did they give both Ronnie and Haney the nod eight times each? Each of them had several white competitors from which the I.F.B.B could choose from to give the Sandow: why didn't they? Answer: because there's no conspiracy on the part of the I.F.B.B to make White bodybuilders standard-bearers. Why have most Mr.Olympias been Black, despite the fact that there as many White pro bodybuilders in the circuit as Black? You get owned by your own faulty logic, Pumpy.

A white anglo-saxon has a big advantage when the alternatives are perceived as less appealing.

  In Haney's era, they could have given the Olympia to Benfatto or Gaspari, much better spoken and with classicaly proportional physiques; why haven't they? During Coleman's reign, going by your "logic" they would have given the Olympia to Cutler from the start and not have Ronnie win it for eight years in a row. Why haven'ty they? They gave the Olympia to Dickerson, who is both Black and gay: How does that make commercial sense by your logic, since he defeated several White competitors in the process? Again: it doesen't. I called you out on your bullshit conspiracy claims and you have nothing to respond. Give it up, Pumpy!

BTW it's no coincidence that all the Yates ballhuggers here are white.

  I never made it any secret that I'm White, in the same way that I have always said that I consider Oliva to be the greatest Mr.Olympia ever. A Black Cuban guy. You, conversely, refered to Dorian as a "blocky White guy", made references to his "rudy British skin", infered that he won because his "looks" are more appealing to the mainstream, etc. By "looks" you can only possibly be referring to something other than his face, because his not exactly Hollywood leading man material! Pumpy, I own you! It's obvious that you're a Black guy who hates Whites. All the bodybuilders you praise are Black, and the ones you put down are White. I wish you were honest aboput it, and just admit that your bias goes deeper than a simple physique preference.

In short gentlemen, race does matter when other factors are more or less equal, and when it's not too obvious. Were any of the central characters in Pumping Iron black, despite the fact that some of the top guys of the day were?

  Maybe because the film was comissioned by Arnold(it was a self-promotion propaganda film), and most of his close friends were White? I don't think Schwarzenegger chose the bodybuilders who appeared there because they were White; they chose them because they were his friends.

Race mattered with Oliva, it mattered with Robinson & Fox who on merit should have won a few.

  What are you talking about, dude? Sergio defeated Arnold, the greatest White bodybuilder ever! Going by your "logic" , this should never have happened...

Flex Wheeler, Dillet & Levrone, especially in '97 when Yates was ready to be taken. It would have mattered with Coleman had there been anyone in his league.

  Again, let's assume that all these guys were better than Dorian at the 1997 Olympia. Let's also assume that Dorian won only due to politics. Ok. But even if we assume that, then it would still be no indication of racism, because Haney defeated Dorian despite losing the muscularity round, and Coleman was given the Olympia over Cutler, in 2001, despite losing both muscularity&symmetry rounds. Why didn't they make Cutler Mr.Olympia right then? Because trhey were biased in favor of Coleman, a Black guy! This clearly shows that race has nothing to do with it.

  Furthermore, I don't even know if the claims that Dorian was more "commercial" than Kevin or Dillet is true. For that to be the case, you'd have to demonstrate that Dorian, in virtue of being White and foreigner, was more commercially viable than Kevin or Shawn, who are nationals. I don't think that's the case at all. People don't seem to have any problems having the greates golfer or basketball player being Black, do I don't think that having a White foreign guy would appeal more to the "mainstream" than having a Black natuional. Then, I don't think that pro bodybuilding even has the ambition of becoming mainstream, so the point would be redundant even if it were true - which is not the case. Pumpster: you are a moron.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[NarcissisticDeity]

You're truly naive. Was Schwarzenegger physically better than Oliva? Zane better than Robinson? Funny coincidence the black guy never won. DUH!

SUCKY find me one example of a white guy physically far superior to a black BB who lost. hahahahaahahahahh

You mean strucually superior? NO but was he more complete? yes both were ! Sergio Oliva was the Flex Wheeler of the late 1960s and early 1970s he NEVER reached his full potenial , he relied to much on his genetics , Sergio rarely had great conditioning and he paid for it , you can get away with that when your facing , Harold Poole , and Chuck Sipes and an off Dave Draper but you wont get away with with with a 240lb Arnold who was simply more complete

Robby Robinson was another bodybuilder who was hit or miss come contest time , Robby who you claim is such a victim of the IFBB did quite well as far as contest wins are concernd , he won 9 Shows in the IFBB so when you claim he was the victim its laughable like the rest of your claims

[suckmymuscle]

SUCKMYLOG like ND, keeps recycling the same arguments that have been previously disproved:
"Better triceps where it counts" is just SUCKY wishing so, with no proof whatsoever.

  The proof, Pumpy, is that there exists an entire mandatory created to show-case only the triceps, and Dorian takes it: his triceps are longer and more striated when both Dorian and Ronnie are around 257 lbs, and Dorian has better muscularity and proportions overrall in this mandatory, evidenced by his his massive outer vastus lateralis, calves, etched serratus and proportional deltoid heads.

It has been proven repeatedly that Coleman's tris are much much bigger, which is why SUCKY has been unable to show Yates with any tri size in overhead shots-he's only got the one side-shot.  

  No, they are not. Get over it. Ronnie certainly had bigger triceps than Dorian in 2003, but in 1998/9 Dorian actually had slightly bigger triceps. Ronnie's gfreater arm size only became apparent when he flexed his biceps; when standing relaxed, their arms were roughly comparable. Not only that, but Dorian also had triceps that were harder and more striated than Ronnie's. You lose...again.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[NarcissisticDeity]

  Bullshit! If that were the case, then why did they give both Ronnie and Haney the nod eight times each? Each of them had several white competitors from which the I.F.B.B could choose from to give the Sandow: why didn't they? Answer: because there's no conspiracy on the part of the I.F.B.B to make White bodybuilders standard-bearers. Why have most Mr.Olympias been Black, despite the fact that there as many White pro bodybuilders in the circuit as Black? You get owned by your own faulty logic, Pumpy.

  In Haney's era, they could have given the Olympia to Benfatto or Gaspari, much better spoken and with classicaly proportional physiques; why haven't they? During Coleman's reign, going by your "logic" they would have given the Olympia to Cutler from the start and not have Ronnie win it for eight years in a row. Why haven'ty they? They gave the Olympia to Dickerson, who is both Black and gay: How does that make commercial sense by your logic, since he defeated several White competitors in the process? Again: it doesen't. I called you out on your bullshit conspiracy claims and you have nothing to respond. Give it up, Pumpy!

  I never made it any secret that I'm White, in the same way that I have always said that I consider Oliva to be the greatest Mr.Olympia ever. A Black Cuban guy. You, conversely, refered to Dorian as a "blocky White guy", made references to his "rudy British skin", infered that he won because his "looks" are more appealing to the mainstream, etc. By "looks" you can only possibly be referring to something other than his face, because his not exactly Hollywood leading man material! Pumpy, I own you! It's obvious that you're a Black guy who hates Whites. All the bodybuilders you praise are Black, and the ones you put down are White. I wish you were honest aboput it, and just admit that your bias goes deeper than a simple physique preference.

  Maybe because the film was comissioned by Arnold(it was a self-promotion propaganda film), and most of his close friends were White? I don't think Schwarzenegger chose the bodybuilders who appeared there because they were White; they chose them because they were his friends.

  What are you talking about, dude? Sergio defeated Arnold, the greatest White bodybuilder ever! Going by your "logic" , this should never have happened...

  Again, let's assume that all these guys were better than Dorian at the 1997 Olympia. Let's also assume that Dorian won only due to politics. Ok. But even if we assume that, then it would still be no indication of racism, because Haney defeated Dorian despite losing the muscularity round, and Coleman was given the Olympia over Cutler, in 2001, despite losing both muscularity&symmetry rounds. Why didn't they make Cutler Mr.Olympia right then? Because trhey were biased in favor of Coleman, a Black guy! This clearly shows that race has nothing to do with it.

  Furthermore, I don't even know if the claims that Dorian was more "commercial" than Kevin or Dillet is true. For that to be the case, you'd have to demonstrate that Dorian, in virtue of being White and foreigner, was more commercially viable than Kevin or Shawn, who are nationals. I don't think that's the case at all. People don't seem to have any problems having the greates golfer or basketball player being Black, do I don't think that having a White foreign guy would appeal more to the "mainstream" than having a Black natuional. Then, I don't think that pro bodybuilding even has the ambition of becoming mainstream, so the point would be redundant even if it were true - which is not the case. Pumpster: you are a moron.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Great post !! I always laugh when pumpy makes these claims because he gets owned in an epic way ! pumpy is simple he really thinks that Sergio should have beat Lee Haney in 1984/85 and he thinks the Weiders were punishing him , Sergio was a fantastic bodybuilder but in the 80s he was a shell of his former self and was lucky to place top 10