Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce

[NeoSeminole]

here's what I wrote:

a) was bigger (this explains why he beat Shawn and Flex)
b) had the best back (this explains why he beat Nasser, Paul Dillet, and Kevin)

here is what you wrote:

A) Dorian wasn't always bigger than his competition , Paul Dillett 275lbs , Loue Ferrigno 318lbs , Ian Harrison 280lbs , Nasser El Sonbaty 285lbs , Paul Demayo 260lbs , Mike Francios 260lbs , Kevin Levrone 250lbs ,Jean Pierre Fux 280lbs , Ronnie Coleman 255lbs,  shall I continue?

I said Dorian beat many good smaller guys b/c he was bigger, and he beat many bigger guys b/c he had the best back. You responded to my point A by naming bigger guys. I even specifically mentioned Shawn and Flex Wheeler. ha ha. Then you claim you "owned" me. Don't fool yourself son.

[NarcissisticDeity]

here's what I wrote:

a) was bigger (this explains why he beat Shawn and Flex)
b) had the best back (this explains why he beat Nasser, Paul Dillet, and Kevin)

here is what you wrote:

I said Dorian beat many good smaller guys b/c he was bigger, and he beat many bigger guys b/c he had the best back. You responded to my point A by naming bigger guys. I even specifically mentioned Shawn and Flex Wheeler. ha ha. Then you claim you "owned" me. Don't fool yourself son.

Kid don't backpeddle now , you made your statement now stand by it !! you want an explanation why he beat Dillet? One was his back and two was his conditioning and his ability to properly & effectively present his phsyique

He beat Levrone because you got two versions of Kevin the 250lb Kevin who was huge but lacked great conditioning and the 235lb Kevin who was shredded by looked small and Dorian had a better back

He beat Ray who could match Yates almost for conditioning but lacked density , thickness and width

He beat Flex 93 because Flex was a victim of to many contests in 93 and his overall conditioning suffered , onto of Flex not being as dense or wide

He beat Nasser because Nasser had no fucking-back and Yates owned him from the sides as well

You guys keep trying to reduce Yates down to the bare essentials but he was so much more , he simply owned most of his competition in the , side chest , side triceps , front & rear latspreads , abdominal and thigh and back double biceps , while he looked okay in the standing relaxed from the front he excelled in the 1/4 turns and he owned everyone standing relaxed from the back , couple that with great balance & proportion and extreme conditioning and muscular density NO ONE could match him overall

[NeoSeminole]

Kid don't backpeddle now , you made your statement now stand by it !!

Son, I'm not backpeddling. Re-read what I wrote. I said Dorian beat many good smaller guys b/c he was bigger (e.g. Shawn and Flex). Obviously, this does not apply to bigger guys. I also said Dorian beat several bigger guys b/c he had the best back (e.g. Nasser and Paul). Why the hell are you trying to disprove my point A by mentioning bigger guys? It doesn't apply to them, hence why I also included a point B. This is not difficult to grasp.

[Hulkster]

ND still hasn't explained how dorian could have recieved such perfect scores despite having such major flaws relative to his competition.

you can type "lol you're wrong" all you want, but it still doesn't show anything.

pics do.

simply put: our side has visual evidence.

your side has: "lol you're wrong there is no dispute" typed over and over again..



no dispute? Pefect scores?

 the pics do not justify the superhuman scoring.

period.

[Hulkster]

Son, I'm not backpeddling. Re-read what I wrote. I said Dorian beat many good smaller guys b/c he was bigger (e.g. Shawn and Flex). Obviously, this does not apply to bigger guys. I also said Dorian beat several bigger guys b/c he had the best back (e.g. Nasser and Paul). Why the hell are you trying to disprove my point A by mentioning bigger guys? It doesn't apply to them, hence why I also included a point B. This is not difficult to grasp.

ND has never been able to grasp the concept that dorian won for 2 reasons over better quality but smaller men:

1. he was physically bigger

2. he had a good back.

What ND fails to understand is that BOTH of these former advantages would be GONE against Ronnie.

The ONLY time Yates faced someone his size WITH A BACK was in 1991 AND HE LOST.

Pretty good idication of what would happen against Ronnie 1999, would you not say?

[VIENIO]

When are they going to delete this thread?

[NarcissisticDeity]

ND has never been able to grasp the concept that dorian won for 2 reasons over better quality but smaller men:

1. he was physically bigger

2. he had a good back.

What ND fails to understand is that BOTH of these former advantages would be GONE against Ronnie.

The ONLY time Yates faced someone his size WITH A BACK was in 1991 AND HE LOST.

Pretty good idication of what would happen against Ronnie 1999, would you not say?

Again you think thats his only advnatages against Ronnie and they're NOT Dorian has the edge in density , dryness and balance & proportion , don't forget these and you don't know your history kid so go back and learn

Dorian faced Ronnie who had a great back and destroyed him 9 times , Dorian faces Fux who had a great back and beat him , Dorian faced Francios who had a great back and beat him , your nonsense is astounding !

Out Dorian's lost into context and it becomes apparent that while still losing to a career-best Haney who was 250lbs Dorian at just 239lbs still managed to BEAT Haney in the muscularity round , he wasn't even at his best and he dented the invincable Lee Haneys armor no one ever came close to Haney and he did this while Haney was at his best and Yates wasn't at his , your comments mean nothing

Ronnie 1998 had a EXTREMELY HARD time with Flex Wheeler he just barely beat him by 3 points which has to be one of the closest Mr Olympia contests EVER Dorian at his best wouldn't have any problem beating Ronnie 98 , if Flex almost beat Ronnie and he wasn't as sharp when he faced Dorian , Dorian would have NO problem

Ronnie 1999 would be a challenge for  Dorian but I think Dorian would win , Ronnie's package in 99 was awesome , he was 257lbs full and sharp , not as dry as 98 and I think this would be his downfall against a superior conditioned equally sized Yates

[NarcissisticDeity]

ND still hasn't explained how dorian could have recieved such perfect scores despite having such major flaws relative to his competition.
[/img]
no dispute? Pefect scores?

 the pics do not justify the superhuman scoring.

period.

Oh I can and have explained why he recieved the perfect/almost perfect scores you just don't get it.

Dorian recieved his scores because he was the biggest , most dense , dryest , most balanced and proportinate guy in the contest , he simply looked better in most of the mandatory poses and meet the IFBB Professional Mens Bodybuilding Criteria better than his contemporaries , reguardless of what you think or see or don't see . 

[Hulkster]

Oh I can and have explained why he recieved the perfect/almost perfect scores you just don't get it.

no, what you do not get is that bodybuilding does not care about "explaining" why someone gets perfect scores.

you have to SHOW it using visual comparisons.

and you have failed on this part miserably.

[Hulkster]

Dorian faced Ronnie who had a great back and destroyed him 9 times , Dorian faces Fux who had a great back and beat him , Dorian faced Francios who had a great back and beat him , your nonsense is astounding !

its amazing that you could be so stupid.

1999 Ronnie Coleman compared to Fux?

Please.

[Hulkster]

i am not necessarily questioning that dorian should not have won as often as he did (although he should have lost in 1994, 96 and 97).

however, the incredible scores he did recieve is what i am questioning.

and so far, ND has not been able to validate these incredible score with anything other than WORDS.

which, of course, have no meaning on a bodybuilding stage.

poor relaxed taper. poor arms (from so many angles). Poor quads.

and he get superhuman scores?

And ND cannot show why using simple pics and videos.

and then he acts like we are nuts for not believe him .

[Bast000]

ERTYERYT4764376367Y5367Y HBRVDFGDFGW333333[/img][/img][/img]T Y E45RY 4YDF DF >:(FDGDFGDF :-\FDG

[nicorulez]

i am not necessarily questioning that dorian should not have won as often as he did (although he should have lost in 1994, 96 and 97).

however, the incredible scores he did recieve is what i am questioning.

and so far, ND has not been able to validate these incredible score with anything other than WORDS.

which, of course, have no meaning on a bodybuilding stage.

poor relaxed taper. poor arms (from so many angles). Poor quads.

and he get superhuman scores?

And ND cannot show why using simple pics and videos.

and then he acts like we are nuts for not believe him .

Hulkster, I agree that Dorian should not have won with straight firsts in 1994/1997; however, Ronnie did deserve to lose this year.  Now, I don't think he lost to Gutler; I feel Vic and Dex were better, but that is a whole other thread.  Regardless, admit that Dorian won square and fair with straight first in 1992/1993 and 1995 and ND should admit that Ronnie won convincingly (ala straight firsts) in 1999, 2003 and 2005 (in 2005 I believe the muscularity round was 8-7 but I digress).  Both had their off years; that is a given.  ND like Doz; you like Ronnie.  Who the hell cares in the end if they won by straight firsts or not.  They both won; an inch is equal to a mile my friend.  Thus, to harp on the issue is moot.  First of all, the judges back then were probably comprised of different people than now.  Moreover, bodbybuilding is subjective.  So, the best physique in 1995 is not necessarily the best physique in 2005 or vice versa.  Overall, it is a wash as nobody knows who would win.  I prefer Ronnie 2003, but that is only because he was a freak of freaks.  I personally think his 1999 physique was nicer, but I am not convinced it would have taken out a prime 1993 Dorian.  I prefer that look that Ronnie brought to the table in 1999.  Would the judges?  I don't know and really don't care.  It is like lamenting the fact that  I could have invested in Microsoft fifteen years ago and made millions after it split a bajillion times.  Didn't happen (hell, I was a college student) but it is nice to surmise.  The reality is that Ronnie and Doz are the two best of their respective times.  It is like trying to compare the 1980 Lakers to the 1990 Bulls; different times my friend.  Let it go.  ND is just reacting now.  I think he too is somewhat tired.  If you let it go, the thread will slowly fade.  At least we know who the two most steadfast members on the board (not forgetting Pumpster and Sucky...IceCold and  NeoSeminole get nods also) are.    Peace guys.

[NarcissisticDeity]

i am not necessarily questioning that dorian should not have won as often as he did (although he should have lost in 1994, 96 and 97).

however, the incredible scores he did recieve is what i am questioning.

and so far, ND has not been able to validate these incredible score with anything other than WORDS.

which, of course, have no meaning on a bodybuilding stage.

poor relaxed taper. poor arms (from so many angles). Poor quads.

and he get superhuman scores?

And ND cannot show why using simple pics and videos.

and then he acts like we are nuts for not believe him .

One I don't have to ' prove ' anything to you from a visual standpoint , I've posted dozens upon dozens of pictures , in facts a good ammount of pictures you now see online are MY scans , a lot of the pictures you post of Ronnie are thanks to me , but I digress I've posted countless pictures of Dorian obliterating his competition and you don't see it , and thats okay but to claim the contrary that Dorian is the one getting owned is delusional

You're claiming that Dorian is getting owned in the pictures you posted which directly contradicts the judges , who were live and in person , 10 feet away , 12 judges all came to the same conclusion , the same judges that held court over Ronnie are the same that did so for Dorian . Hulkster your ( or should I say my ) scans can't compete with what the judges seen , your abilities to asses a bodybuilder's physique leaves a LOT to be desired , you lack objectivity and honesty , your skills are NO WHERE near the judges and yet you continue down the path of absurdity to claim Yates shouldn't have recieved the scores he did , you know nothing and the more you insist otherwise the more you look foolish

The judges have to throw out the high & low scores this ensures they don't pick their favorites and they all came to the same conclusion Dorian was just leaps & bounds better than anyone who stood near him , Dorian looks amazing in the side chest , side triceps , abdominal & thigh , back double biceps , front & rear latspreads , his weak poses realtively speaking are the front double biceps and standing relaxed from the front , Dorian looked fantastic in his 1/4 turns and standing relaxed from the back , couple that with great balance & proportion , great muscle density , muscular bulk , and extreme dryness that really hasn't been seen on a man 257lbs at 5'10" oh and don't forget one of the widest , thickest and freakiest backs EVER and its quite easy to see why he trounced all over everyone.

[nicorulez]

ND, hypothetical question.  Leave out Coleman for a moment.  Considering his 1993 condition at the Mr. Olympia (his best I feel), what bodybuilder ever (not Coleman now) would have beaten him.  Would Haney 1991?  Arnold?  Sergio?  Gutler 2006  ?  My personal opinion is that 2003 Dorian is the second greatest physique to ever step onto a bodybuilding stage; I prefer Coleman 2003 but I know the majority say Coleman 1999.  However, if Coleman did not exist, I would state Doz was unbeatable that day.  Just my two cents.  Moreover, if Doz 1993 beat Coleman 2003 in a hypothetical contest; it would not be a rig job.  Sorry Hulkster, Doz was really damn good that year.

[pumpster]

ND in his wackiness will include Haney as better than Yates. Two of the most flawed winners.

[nicorulez]

I am betting on Bannout 1983 but that is a guess.  He was totally badass that year.  I don't think there has ever been a taper as impressive on the Olympia stage and the dude was less than 200.  ND, am I right.  Another possibility would be Wheeler 1993 at the Arnold.  Now he was incredible that year.  Some people forget but Levrone at the National's the year he turned pro was damn impressive.  He was a contender at the Olympia the following year.  Pumpster, I know you don't like Haney, but he was really impressive his last year (1991).  He was far superior to Yates in the upper body and his taper killed Doz.  Now in 1993, I feel Doz had taken it to the next level.  I feel only Ronnie in 1999/2003 took it to a higher level.  Regardless, that is my opinion.  If ND or Sucky or IceCold disagrees, who is to say either of us are wrong.  Remember, this is a subjective sport. 

[pumpster]

I'm not saying Haney or Yates; in many ways they were similar, making it close.

Bannout was never in the upper echelons: perfect for ND.

Wheeler's the only one we'd agree on, but when you look at the comparisons he was similar but not quite as good as Coleman but that would be argued against by those who like Iron Age physiques.

[IceCold]

i am not necessarily questioning that dorian should not have won as often as he did (although he should have lost in 1994, 96 and 97).

however, the incredible scores he did recieve is what i am questioning.

and so far, ND has not been able to validate these incredible score with anything other than WORDS.

which, of course, have no meaning on a bodybuilding stage.

poor relaxed taper. poor arms (from so many angles). Poor quads.

and he get superhuman scores?

And ND cannot show why using simple pics and videos.

and then he acts like we are nuts for not believe him .

did you really use the word "relaxed"?

i'm no judge and neither are you.

i dont know why dorian recieved a 5 vs. a 7 or 9.

the only reason i can think the judges giving someone a 5 is that they are the clear winner - which dorian was.

when will you understand that shawn was never close to beathing him.

just bc his quads had more seperations and his waist was smaller?  are you serious.

dorian was in better shape than shawn and bigger.  case closed.

also, you never answered my question?  have you ever seen a mr. olympia with dorian in - i'm not talking about youtube or pics from the internet?

you always mention clips, but where are this clips of dorian you've seen?

all the pics you post of dorian are of shitty quality. 

i'm not just saying that bc of yates, i would say the same exact thing where it coleman. 

[IceCold]

towards the end of dorian's career, ronnie's arms, quad seperation, taper, striations and whatever else you can think of hulkster where all better than dorian's? 

how did ronnie do against dorian?

did he even get a callout with dorian?

ronnie's improvment in conditioning is the main reason why he won in 98.

however, his conditioning is still no where near dorian's. 

proof.  finally a semi decent clip of dorian.  i have the VHS and dorian looks 10 times better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpHpIDhKnWc

(if that doesnt work, www.youtube.com and type in dorian yates).

[willie mosconi]

towards the end of dorian's career, ronnie's arms, quad seperation, taper, striations and whatever else you can think of hulkster where all better than dorian's? 

how did ronnie do against dorian?

did he even get a callout with dorian?

ronnie's improvment in conditioning is the main reason why he won in 98.

however, his conditioning is still no where near dorian's. 

proof.  finally a semi decent clip of dorian.  i have the VHS and dorian looks 10 times better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpHpIDhKnWc

(if that doesnt work, www.youtube.com and type in dorian yates).

you fucking fools

how can this thread still be going on?

Dorian was inferior in every way to ronnie, excluding calves and only that. nothing else

this is completely absurd that this is even debateable.

[willie mosconi]

I'm not saying Haney or Yates; in many ways they were similar, making it close.

Bannout was never in the upper echelons: perfect for ND.

Wheeler's the only one we'd agree on, but when you look at the comparisons he was similar but not quite as good as Coleman but that would be argued against by those who like Iron Age physiques.

when both were in top form, flex was better

look at the 96 noc. both flex and ronnie never looked better. flex won

[pumpster]

when both were in top form, flex was better

Nope; he was close; the closest of anyone, but lacked in comparison in a few areas.

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=101370.0

[NeoSeminole]

when both were in top form, flex was better

I agree both look good, but when Ronnie reached his prime Flex never stood a chance.

[nicorulez]

I'm not saying Haney or Yates; in many ways they were similar, making it close.

Bannout was never in the upper echelons: perfect for ND.

Wheeler's the only one we'd agree on, but when you look at the comparisons he was similar but not quite as good as Coleman but that would be argued against by those who like Iron Age physiques.

Agreed, Coleman 1999/2003 >>> Wheeler (ever)  ...However, Coleman 2006 <<< Dogpoo.  It was not the way a champ should go out.  I guess at least he went down trying...lol.  I still prefer him at his prime to anyone.