Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce

[carvedoutofwood]

dorian WAS great, and I am a fan... but this is like argueing with my father about how he thinks ALI would beat Lenox Lewis... I'm like "Dad, Ali was great but he was just over 6 feet tall weighing in at 210 at something like 18% bF, the guy never lifted a weight in his life... Lenox lewis is 6'7' 275 at something like 5.5% on game day... lifts heavy weights everyday..."

everyone has their Hero's but the reality is SPORT evolves and athletes progress... dorian was in his prime a decade b4 ronnie... alot changed goce graci (spelling) was "unbeatable" in the UFC at an unlimited weight class weighing like 170lbs... now everyone knows his submissions and how to defend them... and the guy whos champion at the unlimited weight is like 6'9"

i cant imagine it, and might wanna resist it when it happens, but someday someone will be better then ronnie... better then michael...

babe ruth couldnt play on my dads softball league today even in his prime... the guy never saw a pitch faster then 65mph

[pumpster]

To give your opinion as an opinion is fine.  However, you and Pumpster act like they are fact.  For one, BB is not judged that way.

Excuse me for having wider pespectives. Yates may have been bigger but he's also lacking in many respects. Nowhere near the look presented by a number of greats dating back to the 70s who were never allowed to win, and continued by guys like Wheeler and Coleman in the late 90s.

Being bigger and "grainy" isn't sufficient given the huge departure in the whole look. Time to wake up yourself-guys like Oliva and Schwarzenegger agree to the letter with what i've said. Flex Wheeler is one who has retained that great look of previous eras, who deserved to beat Yates in a fair show.

I don't like someone who looks more like a construction worker than a BB. 

[pobrecito]

Excuse me for having wider pespectives. Yates may have been bigger but he's also lacking in many respects. Nowhere near the overall package presented by a number of greats dating back to the 70s who were never allowed to win, nor is he comparable to someone like Wheeler who in many respects had that old-skool BB look.

Being bigger and "grainy" isn't sufficient given the huge flaws in comparison with other current and past greats. Flex Wheeler is one who deserved to beat Yates in a fair show.

I don't like someone who looks more like a construction worker than a BB. 

This should be your final post in this thead. Your opinion is out and we need not be burdened with the same pictures being posted over and over again.

[pumpster]

Ha ! purely from a mathematical standpoint I'm right , Dorian entered 17 IFBB professional contests and won 15 of them and his only two loses were both second places that my friend means he has a win/loss percentage rate of 88% compare that to Ronnie's whos rate is just 40% the odds are heavily in Dorian's favor kid , at his first Mr Olympia contest ever he placed 2nd to Lee Haney who was at his greatest overall form for a Mr Olympia contest and in the process Yates beat Haney in the muscularity contest weight just 239lbs to Lee's 250lbs , no one and I mean no one had an easy time with Yates and he at the time of his two losses was 228lbs

These are not the words of someone who understands BB. "Mathematical standpoint?"  This is just nonsensical doodlings.

This should be your final post in this thead. Your opinion is out and we need not be burdened with the same pictures being posted over and over again.

Let me think about it...probably not. I'm thinking of having you dismissed from the thread.

[pobrecito]

These are not the words of someone who understands BB. "Mathematical standpoint?"  This is just nonsensical doodlings.

Let me think about it...probably not. I'm thinking of having you dismissed from the thread.

hahahaha....coming from you, you have been put in check so many times it's not even funny.

You are nothing but a nobody with a  biased opinion. Nothing more nothing less.

At least Nicorulez can admire both, as do I. You on the other hand knock Yates for no apparent reason other than to simply bash him, as witnessed by your immature posts in other Yates threads. I have already reviewed the Olympia videos of both men at their bests and have come to my own conclusions. Yet, I don't feel the need to clutter up this thread with the same pictures over and over again.

[delta9mda]

Arguably THE ugliest tri shot ever:

not a beauty show, understand?

[pumpster]

hahahaha....coming from you, you have been put in check so many times it's not even funny.

You are nothing but a nobody with a  biased opinion. Nothing more nothing less.

ND's dog.

Quote from: pumpster on Today at 07:05:56 PM
Arguably THE ugliest tri shot ever:

not a beauty show, understand?

It's referred to as aesthetics, and yes it's a factor in judging, understand? hahaahahahaahahh

[suckmymuscle]

No amount of Yates washboard shots will erase that either, thus the patented "H-taper".

  What you're ignoring is that a thick waist is not an immediate liability like a distended stomach is. When given a choice to penalize a bodybuilder for a wide waist or a distended stomach, the judges choose the latter. Ronnie does have an advantage in taper without distension in his 1998 version, but in 1999 his midsection was already sub-par. And consider that, even when compared to Ronnie's 1998 version, Dorian has the superior abs/serratus, so the judges could go both ways. Ronnie's only aymmetrical advantage, over Dorian, is taper and only in his 1998 version. This is great taper with great abs, something Ronald never had;)

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[suckmymuscle]

Here are pics of 03 Ronnie during the symmetry round. I don't see a gut.

Here's Ronnie hitting the mandatory poses. I still don't see a gut.

  You don't see a gut because you chose the two pics where Ronnie is not showing it. In the first, he still has good taper, but pics taken from a closer distance show his distended gut from the front! In the second pic, he is sucking his gut in and he has non-existent serratus. A horrible physique from a symmetry standpoint. You claim that the gut doesen't matter because he can suck it in? Wrong! First of all, you can't suck in a gut throughout an entire bodybuilding show: Ronnie relaxed several times during the 2003 Olympia and his gut went forward like an alien queen wanted to come out from there. Secondly, when you suck the gut in, it creates a protrusion upwards in the gut which is visible regardless. This is simple physics: mass can't be eliminated. You lose.

Ronnie's conditioning in 03 was just as good as Dorian's in 95. The difference isn't night and day like Dorian nuthuggers believe. I've posted several pics showing Ronnie had pretty damn good conditioning in 03. He was shredded everywhere and his lower back was crisp. Even his obliques were striated. His back may have been carrying a little water, but if lack of separations is an indicator of conditioning then Dorian was also holding a little water in his arms, shoulders, and quads. Now add the fact that Ronnie was almost 30 lbs heavier than Dorian. It's easy to see why Ronnie would win.

  Ronnie had a clear advantage over Dorian in separations when he was 250 lbs; at 287 lbs, he barely had a separation when standing relaxed! Ronnie looked soft in 2003 when compared to Dorian. He already looked soft in 1998 when he was at his dryest; at over 280 lbs, he looked like a water balloon next to The Yates granite-like musculature. You're crazy to think Ronnie matches Dorian in conditioning, and even more so when it comes to his 2993 version.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[suckmymuscle]

Exactly - the battle of the blocky white dudes! 

  Wow, you've just revealed your true "colors". Or color, in this case...

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[suckmymuscle]

here are two relaxed shot of him in 99 spreading his lats.

but they are not very close up. Still, they highlight the taper dorian never had.

I really don't see what is so impressive about having such a wide back if your waist is almost as wide:

 

but apparently,the dorian fans cream their tiny jock straps over this.

the AC Ronnie shot is impressive for detail, but he is scrunching up his shoulders to show off his detail, not spreading his lats just yet.

  His back looks very good there. But Dorian's lats were clearly wider than Ronnie's in his 1999 form. Ronnie only surpassed Dorian for lat width at the 2003 Olympia; until then, Dorian ahd the widest lats the sport had ever seen. Ronnie does have beter taper than Dorian from the back, but taper is not nearly as visible or important from the back as it is from the front - because the hips protrude from the front, and thus, are more visible from there. Ronnie has no advantage in muscularity there, and his advantage in taper is obscured by his huge glutes and sub-par calves. This is a great rear lat spread.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[suckmymuscle]

Coleman clearly with the greater taper. Washboard's a nice diversion from the blocky obliques & structure, for those afraid of the truth..

  Try this pic. Dorian's taper is almost as good as Ronnie's, but with the advantage of superior conditioning and a six-pack!

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[suckmymuscle]

  ronnie on the otherhand, had flawless skin, which may make it seem like he's smooth in comparo's... but in reality he's just better in yet another way

  Besides the fact that the your comment about Dorian being smoother than Ronnie is idiotic beyond discussion, you comments about his "flawless skin" reeks of homosexuality...

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[suckmymuscle]

not only that, ND refuses to show Dorian's national-level quads!

  Too bad that Ronnie's abs-and-thighs shot here is ruined by his thick waist and distended gut which can be seen from the front - take not, NeoSemen -, andf the fact that his quads are so huge that they overpower his entire physique from the front. Well, at least his horible calves aren't visible there...

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[suckmymuscle]

more shots of dorian's "ab and I don't want to show my quad because it sucks" pose

ND, face facts:

Dorian's ab and thigh has the major flaw of not having fantastic quads.

Ronnie does, even though his abs are crappy.

The judges would probably call it even.

interesting "front row" comparison.

  But what version of Ronnie are you talking about? The 2003 Ronnie definitely has the advantage in size, but the advantage in cuts is not that great. And the whole shot is ruined because his gut can be seen from the front and there's little separations on his abs when compared to the 1995 Dorian. The 1999 Ronnie has an advantage in cuts, but not so much in size, and his abs still can't hold a candle to Diesel's.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[pumpster]

SUCK, notice the significant advantage Coleman has both in width and taper. No point denying it.

As far as peripheral muscles like delts, traps & tris, there is such a mismatch that by comparison, Yates barely has muscle. In fact, he barely looks like a BB in comparison. As just one example, the arms are comically small, both in comparison with Coleman's and in comparison with his Yate's own barrel torso.

[nicorulez]

Man, Yates looks very good in that relaxed pose.  What year is that from Sucky?  Very impressive.  Regardless who you support, anyone who denies the true greatness of these two athletes is in denial.  Both were great.  However, the fact remains that Doz got out before he knew his time was up.  Very smart.  I wish Ronnie would have done the same.  Say what you will, losing your Olympia title is definitely a blow to his legacy.  At this point, Haney > Ronnie.  At their best, I feel Ronnie reigns supreme over all, but Doz and Haney have him beat there.

[pobrecito]

Man, Yates looks very good in that relaxed pose.  What year is that from Sucky?  Very impressive.  Regardless who you support, anyone who denies the true greatness of these two athletes is in denial.  Both were great.  However, the fact remains that Doz got out before he knew his time was up.  Very smart.  I wish Ronnie would have done the same.  Say what you will, losing your Olympia title is definitely a blow to his legacy.  At this point, Haney > Ronnie.  At their best, I feel Ronnie reigns supreme over all, but Doz and Haney have him beat there.

88 I believe

[pumpster]

Yates' lack of refinement & detail in the arms and delts is also quite striking in that shot.

[suckmymuscle]

  A lot of the claims made by the Coleman fans, about how he would fair in his 1999 versiona against Dorian, are simply non-sensical. These are the facts:

 - Dorian would defeat him in muscularity, or, at the very least, tie.

 - Ronnie has a small advantage in taper, but Dorian has the better abs. When it comes to head-to-toe muscular proportions, Dorian's at least as good as Ronnie. So the symmetry round could go either way: the judges might prefer Ronnie's slightly better taper and ignore his muscular disproportions. Or they might not, and give the nod to Dorian, who, although possesed of a worst taper, has less symmetrical liabilities than Ronnie. The symmetry round could go either way.

 - Dorian has superior hardness.

 - Ronnie would only win the front double biceps conclusively. Dorian would won the side triceps, abs-and-thighs, front lat spread and rear lat spread. In the other mandatories, it could go either way. Regardless, Dorian win most mandatories.

  Most of the criticism bestowed on Dorian are not really critiques of his muscualarity - which dominates Ronnie in 1999 -, or hios muscular proportions, which was as close to impeccable as a large bodybuilder ever had. The critiques are mostly directed at his structure. The problem here is that Dorian's structure was good enough for him to defeat several guys who had a a similar structure to Ronnie's, such as Shawn. While Shawn is small and Ronnie is not, Dorian still takes the 1999 Ronnie out in overrall muscularity. The 2003 Ronnie is a different story, asd he does have greater overrall muscularity than Dorian. However, I still think a 260 lbs Dorian Yates with a flat stomach, etched abs and serratus, impeccalbe proportions and superior conditionign would have a great shot at defeating a 290 lbs Ronnie in an unbiased contest, because Ronnie's symmetrical liabilities were far too severe and, although his muscularity was greater, Dorian had more quality - hardness. So, who knows? One thing I know with absolute certainty: even if the 2003 Ronnie defeated Dorian due to his greater overrall muscularity, it would be by points and not a straight-firsts victory. Ronnie's symmetrical flaws were just too great and Dorian's muscular quality too awesome for Ronnie to defeat him flat out.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[pobrecito]

even if you don't agree with sucky, his last post is extremely well thought out and worded. Excellent.

[suckmymuscle]

here is coleman at 285 pounds guest posing:





and he looks bigger than Yates.

Explain THAT to me .

Look at how his arms and chest just DESTROY dorian's. sort of like what would happen had the 99 Ronnie competed against Dorian's best..

  The lighting and Black&whites helps him look vastly better than he is there. And consider, too, the difference in proximity to the camera for the two.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[carvedoutofwood]

  Besides the fact that the your comment about Dorian being smoother than Ronnie is idiotic beyond discussion, you comments about his "flawless skin" reeks of homosexuality...

SUCKMYMUSCLE

ummm i never said that dorian was smooth... i said that ronnies skin may seem smooth in camparo to dorians... but really hes just better...

and regardless of what you think is homosexual, skin tone, colour, and quality is very much a part of this sport

[NeoSeminole]

Ronnie would only win the front double biceps conclusively. Dorian would won the side triceps, abs-and-thighs, front lat spread and rear lat spread. In the other mandatories, it could go either way. Regardless, Dorian win most mandatories.

[suckmymuscle]

SUCK, notice the significant advantage Coleman has both in width and taper. No point denying it.

As far as peripheral muscles like delts, traps & tris, there is such a mismatch that by comparison, Yates barely has muscle. In fact, he barely looks like a BB in comparison. As just one example, the arms are comically small, both in comparison with Coleman's and in comparison with his Yate's own barrel torso.

  This shot is one of the best of Ronnie from 2003, exactly because it's from the back and they are both standing relaxed. Like I said, taper is far more relevant from the front than from the back, because the hips protrude forwards. In this comparison, both Dorian and Ronnie are relaxed, thus conditioning is not too much of a part there. This emphasizes Ronnie's greater width without showcasing his lack of separations. There is no denial that Ronnie surpassed Dorian in width in 2003, evident in the back lat spread. Now his separations in the back double biceps were pathetic when compared to Dorian's.  I'll take Dorian's back double biceps at the 1995 or even 1996 Olympia over that of the 2003 Ronnie any day. Furthermore, look at how huge his glutes are. That is not a good thing as far as bodybuilding goes: the glutes, together with the abs, are the two bodyparts where hypertrophy is a bad thing. For all his width, I don't think Ronnie's muscular quality was great in 2003, and his symmetry certainly sucked. I'm not even talking about the absurd differential in size between his gigantic quadriceps and sub-par calves, but that his quads overpowered even his upper body, so huge they were. Now, what kills Ronnie is the gut distension. Why? Because the midsection is the bodypart which is seen both from the front and the sides, and Ronnie's sucked! There's no way that would be overlooked in an unbiased contest. No way.

SUCKMYMUSCLE