I would rather have big arms, big delts, big pecs, and big quads to go with a big gut than have twig arms and a wide waist to go with a big gut.
This goes to show how sophomoric your case for Ronnie is. You didn't reply to my previous post directed at you, where I called you out on your criticism of Dorian's arm size and symmetry, utterly destroyed you, and you didn't respond with the excuse that it was "too long".
I'm sure that, if I had written a short and concise reply, you'd simply accuse me of ignoring Dorian's flaws - as you actually did before.
The difference in arm muscularity between Dorian and the 1999 Coleman is much smaller than you assume. Ronnie had 23" arms in 2003, and in 1999 his arms were clearly smaller. This means that Ronnie's arms were probably about 21" or so back then, which is roughly the same as Dorian's. And when you consider that Ronnie's biceps were clearly bigger, then it's easy to see that there wasn't actually much triceps size advantage for Ronnie over Dorian.
Even if Ronnie did have an advantage in overrall arms size, it wouldn't matter, because the arm is a complex bodypart, composed of different muscles that show-case different aspects of itself from different angles. The "arm" is not a bodypart per se, and thus is only evaluated as a whole in the relaxed round. Which doesen't matter, because Ronnie's gut distension and Dorian's greater
overrall muscularity makes him lose the relaxed round regardless - the 257 lbs was more muscular than the 1999 Ronnie: same weight, but Dorian was drier, ergo, more of Dorian's weight was lean tissue.
Now, even whne n standing relaxed, Dorian might have an advantage in arms. Not because they're bigger, but because Dorian has an advantage in muscularity in the lateral head of the triceps - which is the most visible. The biceps is downplayed when standing relaxed, so Ronnie would have no advantage there either. You might not like it, but the bottom line is that, due to it's location, the lateral triceps head is the most visible, and the bottom line is that Dorian's are more muscular.
But now, let's assume that, bsesides the advantage in biceps, Ronnie also had an advantage in inner and medial triceps head muscularity - it's not true when talking about Ronnie's 1999 version, but let's assume. Ok, how would this affect Dorian overrall. Well, the
only consequence of this is that he would lose the front double biceps pose. That's it. Like I said, when standing relaxed, the biceps are downplayed and it is the lateral triceps head which is showcased the most, and Dorian has the bigger and better side triceps heads. But the relaxed round judges the body as a whole, not only the arms, and Dorian is at least as muscular as Ronnie but without the symmetrical liability of a gut - and his abs/serratus separations are better too. So Dorian wins the relaxed round. You point about the "arms" is substantia incognita as far as a bodybuilding judging crietria goes, because the arms are judges by
parts during some mandatories, and never as a whole
by itself. Get it? When the bis/tris are judged simultaneously, it is done during the relaxed round as part of the
whole body, and as I already explained, Dorian takes that.
Now, how does Dorian's triceps and biceps do in a comparsison to that of the 1999 Ronnie in the specific angles that count? Well, Ronnie's biceps and the inner and medial heads of his triceps bellies, at which he has advantage over Dorian, is only visible from the
front, when the arms are
flexed. Like I said previously, Dorian wins the relaxed round over Ronnie, in arms, because, even if he loses in inner and medial triceps head muscularity, it doesen't matter because it emphasizes the lateral triceps head. Mathematically, I don't beleive that Ronnie had bigger overrall triceps than Dorian in 1999, but even if he did, it wouldn't matter because these two triceps heads are only visible from
one angle, in
one pose.
Likewise, most of the biceps mass is only visible from the front while flexing the muscles, because both the deltoids and the triceps obscure it's visibility from the back.
This explains why Dorian would win the back double biceps despite Ronnie's advantage in biceps muscularity. Previousuly, you accused me of suggesting that Dorian would win the abs-and-thigh for having better abs since this is the mandatory's name, and that, by that logic, Ronnie would win the back double biceps. I demonstrated that this was nonsense, because, even though the abs are only a part of what's visible in this mandatory, it is far more visible than the biceps in the back double biceps and that, since Dorian had wider lats and better taper but worse quads, his superior abs/serratus separations would tip the scales in his favor.Of course, you remained silent about that.
The analogy with the biceps in the back double biceps is terrible, because most of the biceps mass is not visible from the back. Not only that, but, again, Dorian's superior side triceps is the
only triceps head visible in this mandatory, so Dorian takes it. Add to that Dorian's wider and thicker back with as many separations, his smaller glutes - winning him point in symmetry over Ronnie -, and equivalent hams, Dorian wins the pose. I'm not even mentioning Dorian's superior calves. Ops, just did.
Likewise, your criticism of Dorian's delts is ridiculous, because, again, Dorian would win the symmetry round for having the thre deltoid heads more evenly developed. He would win the side trs not only due to the reasons I already elucidated, but also because his
three deltoid heads are massive
and proiportional. Ronnie might have an edge in overrall deltoid muscularity, but I don't think he does. Regardless, the delts are only judged as whole in the relaxed round with the whole body and, since Ronnie loses that anyway due to Dorian's greater overrall muscularity and flatter midsection despite having slightly worse taper when standing relaxed, it's a mute point. He
also loses the other two poses where the three heads are visible simultaneously, the side triceps and the back double biceps. Game over.
Now for the distended gut being less grave than a thick waist, you're wrong. First of all, thick waist is irrelevant; what matters is
taper, and taper is not a static quality, but rather something that depends on the differential between the waist and delts/lats in specific angles. Ronnie's gut was not that distended in 1999, but it doesen't really matter: it was far more distended than Dorian's, and that's all that matters in a comparison. A distended gut is much worse than a thick wasit because a thick waist can still result in great taper if the bodybuilder has sufficiently wide lats or delts. Conversely, a distended gut
always creates a symmetrical disproportion which cannot be fixed. Dorian had a thick waist, and Ronnie did have better taper than him when
standing relaxed, from the
front, because the differential between delt and waist is greater for Ronnie. Yet, Dorian had better taper than him in the front lat spread and the abs-and-thigh, when taper is a function of lat-to-waist ratio and not delt-to-waist ratio. In fact, Dorian's
overrall taper was as good as Ronnie's, or even better. Why? Becuase if you took a tape measurer and and measured their waist, you'd see they probsbly had the same circumference. It is simple arithmatic: Dorian compensates for haing a thicker waist from tghe front by having a flatter stomach from the sides.
Again, this is great taper.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
