i cant prove the first one, dorian may have looked better in person, but i highly doubt the meaning was he had more seperations,cuts was bigger, i just think the meaning is that dorian was huge compared to the average, and dense therefore making him more impressive. i just dont see how its an argument for either side, ronnie could have looked better in person, melvin said that was the case. melvin looked way more impressive in person then in the mags to me,i would venture that most to all pros look better in person, due to context, and a standard to the norm.jay also looked way bigger in person.
This is obviously not the case, sport, because many have said that Dorian's "stonyness" is better seen in person, while no one I'm aware of has said that Ronnie's separations and striations are better visible in person. If anything, Ronnie only seems to look really good and shine when he's depleted.
2)the bicep is seen in the back doulbe BICEP pose, as well as the most muscular, side chest etc it is judged in many poses. also bodybuilding is a visual sport, it doesnt matter what size his arms actually were, but how they appeared. due to poor shape in the biceps, and triceps in every pose but the side tri, like the front double bi, side chest, MM they looked poor. his arms did not appear to be 21 inches because of the shape issue, and i doubt the torn bicep arm was 21 inches.
They name the mandatory back double biceps, but in reality the biceps represents an insignificant part of the pose. Furthermore, the biceps are mostly concealed in this pose, by the triceps and delts.
You're making the mistake of assuming that the biceps has the same relevance from all angles and in all poses, which is not the case. In fact, it is only a majhot player in the frront douible biceps, and that's a fact. In the back double biceps, Dorian crushes Ronnie in all muscles except the biceps.
3)the lighting argument is moot, because you'd have to know so many factors we dont in order to make a fair decision. you'd have to know, the intensity and type of lighting, the oil,tan, position of the competitor on the stage relative to the lighting, what lighting is best eg top down, front, angle etc and what each show had, ad infinitum. if we dont, and we dont know this stuff its pointless to argue it as an ADVANTAGE or DISADVANTAGE for either.
No, the point remains that lighting make all bodybuilders look better, so this is not a variable to consider. My point is that a much greater number of pics of Ronnie have the light hitting him upfront when compared to Dorian, and this gives him an advantage.
4)dryness has to be objective stonyness is not a criteria you can accurately see. i also agree that size and shape would have effects on conditioning as previously stated. dryness and low bf are correlated with cuts, seperation, and striations the main criteria. muscle apperances if taken into accoutn would also have to take into account vascualrity as an appearance, and muscle maturity as an appearance. which they do as many talk about muscle maturity etcc but i still dont think its the main criteria. hardness and dryness do exist, but produce conditioning which is stated above.
You're making a mistake that is common among newbies, one that I have addressed at the beggining of the thread; if you hadn't joined the thread so late, you'd know.
When you lose bodyfat and water, your muscular separations increase, but that's not the only thinbg that happens: the texture of the skin changes as well. The muscle acquires a harder appearance. Dorian never had as many overral separations and striations as Coleman, but yet his muscles had a completely different look to them. How do you expain that? It clearly points out that separations are not the only thing that is increased when you lose bodyfat and water. Learn the rules before you decide to play the game.
5)i have no beef with symmetry, left/right exactness is measured, thus dorians arm would ruin his symmetry. the point of nothing is symmetrical is moot because the MOST symmetrical is rewarded. hence dorians tear would hinder his symmetry. symmetry and proportion arent the same. it would also affect his propotion as one bicep would be smaller, hence a smaller arm hence bad propotion.
First of all the argument that nothing is symmetrical is NarcissisticDeity's, not mine. Secondly, your point is ridiculous here because if you assume symmetry as a whiole, Dorian's torn biceps would represent a 3% distortion of overral symmetry, while Coleman's gut, large glutes, etc, would distort symmetry by 30%. Dorian wins.
6)the earth is flat 
, he stole my idea.
Prove it. Gallileo put his rep where his mouth was.
7) how does a gut ruin symmetry if theres no muscle to which to compare it too. its ruins proportion as its too big for other muscles bodyparts. dorian also had a gut, ronnie also controlled it very well in the mandatories the only time it matters.
Excuse me, but I assume you're joking. Otherwise, I can present you with plenty of counter-evidence. A distended gut ruins
overral symmetry, dude. Why? Because a bodybuilder shouldn't look like an obese man.
8)conditioning has to be objective, there would be no way to judge otherwise. the 06 ronnie had more water=less seperation in the back and glutes 99 had less water=more seperation and cuts
But Dorian never had great separations regardless. In 1994, he was holding a slight film of water and in 1995 he was dehydrated to the point of almost rigor mortis. Yet, he was never greatly separated anyway - at least not compared to Ronnie at the 1998 Olympia, etc. So how do you explain this?
lee use to have baby smooth legs=more water and fat now=less water=mor seperated, cut legs.
Lee Haney? His quads were incredibly cut...
im just trying to get the core of the argument insted of arguing who had better lighting, in person, or black and white pics.
The core of my argument is that unknown variables cause different bodybuilders to look different under the same circumstances, and just because we don't know the cause, doesen't mean that the effect is not real.
its obvious no one hear is going to win the argument. it will just keep going around and around.
Yes.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
