Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce

[NarcissisticDeity]

ND likes to bitch about forearms. ronnies are massive in that pic.

yes better bodyparts have nothing to do with who would win. ronnie triceps are much better in that pic. as are his delts. and his leg condition. the seperation is deep.


plus its a color pic compared to your bullshit black and whites

Ronnie has good forearms , but compared to Dorian he lacks in shape , his are shaped like bowling pins Dorian's are much fuller and insert closer to the wrist and proportion in relation to his biceps/triceps Ronnie's lag behind his

[NeoSeminole]

ha ha ha, so much bullshit. I wonder if you truly believe this or are you just arguing for argument's sake?

It is what ever I say his delts are larger? lol his traps are more noticeable due to the angle , I know you had to reach for advantages but come on lol

wrong, the angle has little effect when Dorian's traps appear small in this pose to begin with. You are just looking for any excuse. Here is a level shot of Dorian's side triceps.



now compare to a pic of Ronnie taken from below. As you can see, Ronnie's traps are still more noticeable.

and his pecs are most certainly not better balanced lol his lower pecs are saggy

in bodybuilding, the upper pecs should be equally developed as the lower pecs to give the chest a box-like appearance. Here is a pic of Arnold, whom many consider to have the greatest chest of all-time, hitting a side triceps.



Notice his lower pecs don't overpower his upper chest as in Dorian's case? If you were to calculate the slope of Ronnie's and Dorian's pecs, you would find that Ronnie's is steeper which indicates that his upper and lower pecs are more balanced.

and please spare me the critique he has better definition , I mean seriously , Dorian is bone dry and rick hard , Ronnie looks soft in 99 , hey wait he was according to McGough and Dorian's triceps show much better separation

conditioning is irrelevant since we are discussing triceps definition. I could be 3% bf with no water, but Ronnie would probably still have better triceps definition than me. Ronnie's triceps lateral head is equally separated as Dorian's and has striations. He also displays better separation between his lateral head and long head. Dorian's horseshoe is poorly defined.

[pobrecito]

The bullshit is deep tonight hahahahah

Ronnie looks like he was just pulled out of a formaldehyde jar in that shot

[Hulkster]

post ALL pics , both good & bad , I've posted them all

you haven't scanned the Yates poster from the 93 olympia flex yet...

I know you are scared as hell, because its a colour pic, but stil...

[NeoSeminole]

all the Dorian nuthuggers know to say when they are losing is:

"yawn"
"I won't dignify that with a response"
"ha ha ha ha"
the bullshit is deep tonight"

[pumpster]

all the Dorian nuthuggers know to say when they are losing is:

"yawn"
"I won't dignify that with a response"
"ha ha ha ha"
the bullshit is deep tonight"

-"The lighting wasn't right"
-"The angles aren't the same"
 

Same result:

[pobrecito]

Great shot of Ronnie being f*cking owned hahahah....Cutler arm is bigger too

[suckmymuscle]

conditioning is deciphered from some external criteria-yes

  Yes, and it does not include merely separations and striations, but also grain, somthing that Dorian displayed to a much higher degree than Coleman.

bf and water levels at low levels constitutes conditioning-yes

  Yes, and Ronnie's superior separations are no indication of superior conditioning, since different Human Beings show different levels of separations at the same bodyfat and water levels. Get it?

sep,cuts,striations and hardness increase as bf ans water decrease in everyone-yes

  Yes, but not to the same degree, meaning that you can't infer bodyfat and water levels accurately from that. And by the way, Dorian was harder.

therefore the obsevable criteria are the above since they are the by-products of low water and bf.

  Wrong! They are the by-products of low bofyfat and water, but the bodybuilder with the greatest cuts not always has the lowest fat and water levels, so your theory goes down the drain. Sorry. Dorian's low bodyfat and water levels were expressed through extraordinary grain, not separations.

thus judges must infer who is more conditioned based on the above variables.

  So can they infer the bodyfat and water percentages of bodybuilders by looking at them? Bodybuilding is to some extent illusion, so a bodybuilder with superior cuts can give the impressio that he's more conditioned than others who have less. If you did a hydrostatic weightig of the more cut bodybuilder, would he turn out to have a lower fat and water level than the less cut ones? Not necessarily.

nothing i said is wrong. its actually common sense. the person who is harder is considered better conditioned. and is the more striated, the more cut.

  Wrong. The person who's harder is not always the most striated and separated. Dorian wasn't as separated as most of his competitors, yet all of them admitted that he was the most coditioned bodybuilder ever. How do you explain that?

a guy at 20% and 5% will have different levels of the above factors, with the guy at 5 being more seperated,cut,harder etc. this is common sense also.

  Ugh...but it's not linear. It's not like a guy has 50 muscular separations at 20% bodyfat and then 100 at 10%. Ergo, you cannot infer bodyfat levels based on number of separations because there's no mathematical relationship between them.

because we know they correlate positively we can infer the level of water and bf from sep,cuts etc. also, we could predict that the person at 3% bf will have more of the above criteria then a person at 20. this prediction is true. the variability does not matter, its not an exact sport. they can and do infer conditioning which is an imaginary thing to begin with on the above factors.

  Wrong. A guy will have more at 3% than at 20% because that's a very large difference. Will he have more separations at 3% than at 5%? Not necessarily. His number of separations may stabilize at 5% bodyfat and then only striations may increase, or the texture of the skin acquires a harder appearance, etc. And yes, the judges might look at a bodybuilder with more separations and deem him better conditioned. Will they deem him more conditioned because he has less bodyfat and water? No. Will they deem him more conditioned because he looks like he has less fat and water? Yes. Again, illusion. My beef with you is that you tried to argue that Ronnie had lower fat and water levels based on more separations, which, I'm sorry to say, is frankly idiotic. Unless you can disprove my conjecture that Ronnie can be more separated than Dorian while still having more bodyfat and water, then we have nothing to discuss.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[suckmymuscle]

ha ha ha ha ha, you can't even see shit in those pics they are so small. Here is a bigger version of that pic. Ronnie still has better taper than Flex.

  The picture is fine,and proves my case. Here's it again. Funny that you didn't re-post the larger version of this one, huh?

by the way, how is your sobriety coming along?

  Much better than your math skills... And the fact that your quoting posts refering to me from months ago goes to show how much you fear me. So much for you claiming that you don't care what I say.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[Iceman1981]

From 2003 Mr. Olympia

[pobrecito]

This has yet to be matched

[Hulkster]

bullshit:

[NeoSeminole]

The picture is fine,and proves my case. Here's it again. Funny that you didn't re-post the larger version of this one, huh?

The pic is not fine. It's a little 2 inch by 2 inch photo and you can barely see anything. In fact, you can't even see Flex's lats but you can barely see Ronnie's which automatically means Ronnie has better taper. The reason I didn't post a larger version of that pic is b/c I don't have one, you dipshit.

Much better than your math skills... And the fact that your quoting posts refering to me from months ago goes to show how much you fear me. So much for you claiming that you don't care what I say.

better than my math skills, eh? I don't see how that's possible since I know when to round up and how to subtract numbers. You think 23 - 20.5 yields a smaller number than 2. Regarding your comment about me fearing you, are you serious? I've responded to you more times than anyone else in this thread. I, along with several others, have called you out on your bullshit and dished out worse beatings than your daddy used to give you when you were a little kid.

[Hulkster]

Yes, and Ronnie's superior separations are no indication of superior conditioning, since different Human Beings show different levels of separations at the same bodyfat and water levels. Get it?

and those humans who exhibit LESS seperations than someone else at the same bodyfat and water levels are at a DISADVANTAGE on a bodybuilding stage.

get it?

[pobrecito]

and those humans who exhibit LESS seperations than someone else at the same bodyfat and water levels are at a DISADVANTAGE on a bodybuilding stage.

get it?

Really?

Then how did Dorian annihilate the likes of Shawn Ray and Flex Wheeler?

[NarcissisticDeity]

ha ha ha, so much bullshit. I wonder if you truly believe this or are you just arguing for argument's sake?

wrong, the angle has little effect when Dorian's traps appear small in this pose to begin with. You are just looking for any excuse. Here is a level shot of Dorian's side triceps.



now compare to a pic of Ronnie taken from below. As you can see, Ronnie's traps are still more noticeable.



in bodybuilding, the upper pecs should be equally developed as the lower pecs to give the chest a box-like appearance. Here is a pic of Arnold, whom many consider to have the greatest chest of all-time, hitting a side triceps.



Notice his lower pecs don't overpower his upper chest as in Dorian's case? If you were to calculate the slope of Ronnie's and Dorian's pecs, you would find that Ronnie's is steeper which indicates that his upper and lower pecs are more balanced.

conditioning is irrelevant since we are discussing triceps definition. I could be 3% bf with no water, but Ronnie would probably still have better triceps definition than me. Ronnie's triceps lateral head is equally separated as Dorian's and has striations. He also displays better separation between his lateral head and long head. Dorian's horseshoe is poorly defined.

Neo again you're not working with much at all and you are very much reaching for some advantages in this pose because you need them , his traps appear small , this is what you're working with? lol I don't need to make excuses for his traps looking small in this pose thats a very poor attempt and finding an edge where there is none

Dorian's entire side tricep pose is leaps & bounds better than Ronnie , this isn't up for debate I mean Ronnie was never known for a great sidetriceps pose and Dorian was , I've always side Ronnie's shot left a lot to be desired and it was confirmed by Shawn Ray

" Shawn ray : Ronnie’s side chest leaves a lot to be desired when compared to people who can actually hit it right like Dexter and Jay. His side triceps shot is not one of the best in the business and he got exposed because of it "

And then you go on with another imaginary edge by posting a picture of Arnold as some reference to a great chest in the side triceps shot , first of all Arnold NEVER had a great side triceps shot despite the advantage you claim and neither does Ronnie , why? to many flaws his whole midsection sucks you think for a moment entertaining he does have some advantage in the pecs it can compensate for his entire midsection lagging behind? of course not couple that with poor proportions , Ronnie's biceps/triceps dominate his forearms , his midsection sticking out , his lower body being out of sync NO calves , I mean seriously give me a break

And conditioning is NOT irrelavent its extremely important and its whats separates one competitor from winning and one losing , and Dorian's conditioning depending on the year is better than Ronnie and Ronnie does NOT ( especially in that pic ) show better separation between his lateral and long head thats just garbage and his long head and lateral are both lagging behind in shape compared to Dorian and once again striations are a straw , another poor attempt at any advantage you can come up with , striations and more visible traps don't make up for his many glaring flaws in this pose and he has many compared to Dorian

[NeoSeminole]

yawn

Neo again you're not working with much at all and you are very much reaching for some advantages in this pose because you need them , his traps appear small , this is what you're working with? lol I don't need to make excuses for his traps looking small in this pose thats a very poor attempt and finding an edge where there is none

ha ha ha, I'm reaching for advantages b/c Ronnie has larger traps in the side triceps yet you claim Dorian's forearms are an advantage. Get real son.

Dorian's entire side tricep pose is leaps & bounds better than Ronnie , this isn't up for debate I mean Ronnie was never known for a great sidetriceps pose and Dorian was , I've always side Ronnie's shot left a lot to be desired and it was confirmed by Shawn Ray

Your reading comprehension leaves much to be desired. I never said that Ronnie beats Dorian in the side triceps. I said Ronnie is holding his own in your side triceps comparison.

And then you go on with another imaginary edge by posting a picture of Arnold as some reference to a great chest in the side triceps shot , first of all Arnold NEVER had a great side triceps shot despite the advantage you claim and neither does Ronnie

irrelevant babble from you in a pathetic attempt to shift the focus away from Dorian's weaknesses. I never said that Arnold has a great side triceps shots. I merely posted a pic of him to illustrate what a balanced chest looks like. Ronnie's pecs more closely resemble Arnold's in that shot than Dorian's, hence Ronnie has a better chest.

couple that with poor proportions , Ronnie's biceps/triceps dominate his forearms , his midsection sticking out , his lower body being out of sync NO calves , I mean seriously give me a break

I agree about Ronnie's biceps/triceps overpowering his forearms. That is one of the reasons why I feel that Dorian wins the side triceps. However, you cannot use lower body since I was specifically referring to your comparison. It does not include the legs.

And conditioning is NOT irrelavent its extremely important and its whats separates one competitor from winning and one losing , and Dorian's conditioning depending on the year is better than Ronnie

conditioning is irrelevant in this case since it's not judged directly. A judge doesn't award a competitor b/c he is the most conditioned. Simply put, there is no way to indirectly measure conditioning without using definition. The reason conditioning is important is b/c it's positively correlated with separations and striations. In your comparison, Ronnie has superior definition in his pecs, delts and triceps.

Ronnie does NOT ( especially in that pic ) show better separation between his lateral and long head thats just garbage

sure, I guess I'm just imagining Dorian's half a horseshoe.

[suckmymuscle]

The pic is not fine. It's a little 2 inch by 2 inch photo and you can barely see anything. In fact, you can't even see Flex's lats but you can barely see Ronnie's which automatically means Ronnie has better taper. The reason I didn't post a larger version of that pic is b/c I don't have one, you dipshit.

  The pic clearly shows that Ronnie's taper is worse, you idiot. What is there to discuss? Taper is the differential between clavicle and waist width, and Wheeler has a better one in the pic I posted.

better than my math skills, eh? I don't see how that's possible since I know when to round up and how to subtract numbers. You think 23 - 20.5 yields a smaller number than 2.

  How come if Dorian's arms were 21"? Besides, that would be a much less grave mistake than thinking that 247 is a bigger number than 257.

Regarding your comment about me fearing you, are you serious? I've responded to you more times than anyone else in this thread.

  Of course you did, but because I called you out. So, you had to give a reply, no matter how stupid, to save face. And by the way, you did ignore several of my posts and then when I pointed it out you said it was because I wasn't even worth arguing with. Yeah, the classical way out.

I, along with several others, have called you out on your bullshit and dished out worse beatings than your daddy used to give you when you were a little kid.

  Ha ah aha ha ah aha ha ah aha...ok. Yeah, that's probably the reason why I got you to admit that you were wrong about your lean body mass claims regarding the 2001 ASC Coleman compared to the 1999 version. And you've gotta be shitting me, right? I have owned everyone I wanted to on this thread very easily. My posts and assessments are absolutely brilliant. I got even people from the Ronnie side saying that. You got owned by me several times. You even got owned on another board when you had the audacity to challenge me to an intellectual discussion, and I gave you a reply that went over your head. Sperm, I pitty you.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

 

[IceCold]

damn, Ronnie is holding his own and that's arguably his weakest pose.

you're beginning to sound almost as delusional as hulkster.

[NarcissisticDeity]

yawn

ha ha ha, I'm reaching for advantages b/c Ronnie has larger traps in the side triceps yet you claim Dorian's forearms are an advantage. Get real son.

Your reading comprehension leaves much to be desired. I never said that Ronnie beats Dorian in the side triceps. I said Ronnie is holding his own in your side triceps comparison.

irrelevant babble from you in a pathetic attempt to shift the focus away from Dorian's weaknesses. I never said that Arnold has a great side triceps shots. I merely posted a pic of him to illustrate what a balanced chest looks like. Ronnie's pecs more closely resemble Arnold's in that shot than Dorian's, hence Ronnie has a better chest.

I agree about Ronnie's biceps/triceps overpowering his forearms. That is one of the reasons why I feel that Dorian wins the side triceps. However, you cannot use lower body since I was specifically referring to your comparison. It does not include the legs.

conditioning is irrelevant in this case since it's not judged directly. A judge doesn't award a competitor b/c he is the most conditioned. Simply put, there is no way to indirectly measure conditioning without using definition. The reason conditioning is important is b/c it's positively correlated with separations and striations. In your comparison, Ronnie has superior definition in his pecs, delts and triceps.

sure, I guess I'm just imagining Dorian's half a horseshoe.

yawn

ha ha ha, I'm reaching for advantages b/c Ronnie has larger traps in the side triceps yet you claim Dorian's forearms are an advantage. Get real son.

Yawn? if you can't beat em join em  and please I mean you're really reaching for edges with this traps nonsense and I don't blame you he really need to look for edges in this pose , and again entertaining this nonsense that wouldn't compensate for is many other flaws in this pose , and proportion is a prerequisite its asked for in the criteria and Dorian's forearms are in proportion with his biceps/triceps and Ronnie's aren't this isn't a straw advantage like your ' Ronnie's traps appear bigger '

Your reading comprehension leaves much to be desired. I never said that Ronnie beats Dorian in the side triceps. I said Ronnie is holding his own in your side triceps comparison.

You said Ronnie was ' holding is own ' and thats just nonsense you're like Hulkster it looks good to you than that means he's holding his own , Dorian's textbook , Ronnie not

irrelevant babble from you in a pathetic attempt to shift the focus away from Dorian's weaknesses. I never said that Arnold has a great side triceps shots. I merely posted a pic of him to illustrate what a balanced chest looks like. Ronnie's pecs more closely resemble Arnold's in that shot than Dorian's, hence Ronnie has a better chest.

Dorian has NO weaknesses in this shot , you think he does and the irony is Ronnie is riddled with weaknesses and yet you claim he's ' holding his own ' once again lets say his chest is better in the side chest , this does NOT compensate for his lack of crisp detail in the abdominals , intercostals , serratus , and obliques , not to mention his proportion , his lack of calves , and overall conditioning

I agree about Ronnie's biceps/triceps overpowering his forearms. That is one of the reasons why I feel that Dorian wins the side triceps. However, you cannot use lower body since I was specifically referring to your comparison. It does not include the legs.

I can use the lower body all I want , its part of the pose and I mean just like his forearms being overwhelmed by his biceps/triceps his calves are dominated by his quads

conditioning is irrelevant in this case since it's not judged directly. A judge doesn't award a competitor b/c he is the most conditioned. Simply put, there is no way to indirectly measure conditioning without using definition. The reason conditioning is important is b/c it's positively correlated with separations and striations. In your comparison, Ronnie has superior definition in his pecs, delts and triceps.

sure, I guess I'm just imagining Dorian's half a horseshoe.

Conditioning is irrelevant huh? lol this is exactly why you guys always fall flat on your faces , you simply don't know what you're talking about , Conditioning is definition , or at the least a part of it , how does one get their muscles defined? through conditioning , in the process of riding the body of any excess s/q fat and water the muscles become clearly defined , having the edge in conditioning separates one competitor from an other , 1998 Ronnie was better conditioned than Flex in the hams & glutes and won because of it , call it better definition of the hams & glutes its stull the same thing

And you see what you want to see , you know just like you see a pic of 01 and say he looks the same size as 99 , you see what you want 

[NarcissisticDeity]

you're beginning to sound almost as delusional as hulkster.

He is lol

[pobrecito]

Man, Dorian's balance and proportion in the shot is just fucking impeccable!

[Hulkster]

Really?

Then how did Dorian annihilate the likes of Shawn Ray and Flex Wheeler?

because he was 35 pounds larger and had a wide wide back in comparison to both.

neither advantage would apply against a 1999 Ronnie.

Ronnie would match him in both size and width only with better overall detail and aesthetics.

result: game over for the shadow. just like when he faced Haney.

[pobrecito]

because he was 35 pounds larger and had a wide wide back in comparison to both.

neither advantage would apply against a 1999 Ronnie.

Ronnie would match him in both size and width only with better overall detail and aesthetics.

result: game over for the shadow. just like when he faced Haney.

Nope, Dorian beat Haney in muscularity in 91

He only lost out becuase of Haney's superior posing......Yates would destroy Coleman on posing round and win the contest (assuming we give Coleman the symmetry round , which is questionable)

You lost again hulkster

[NarcissisticDeity]

because he was 35 pounds larger and had a wide wide back in comparison to both.

neither advantage would apply against a 1999 Ronnie.

Ronnie would match him in both size and width only with better overall detail and aesthetics.

result: game over for the shadow. just like when he faced Haney.

Very bad analogy , he didn't beat people because he had a wider back , he beat everyone because he was bigger , better balanced , had unrivaled density and conditioning , he still has these edges against Ronnie , you will never be able to escape that

Ronnie can't compete in detail from the back , maybe in the most muscular but Dorian would easily collect more mandatories

we'll give Ronnie the symmetry round , Yates would win the muscularity round and the two posing rounds , you're logic leaves a lot to be desired

and Dorian lost to Haney because he was 239 pounds and in his first Mr Olympia , Dorian 1993/1995 would have beat Lee Haney 1991 , Ronnie 1999 is holding water and this would be a severe liability compared to someone who isn't , and Flex beat Ronnie despite never being as wide or as heavy , ever wonder why?