Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce

[pumpster]

A personal fave:

[pobrecito]

It doesn't get any more conclusive than this boys......Coleman closer to his prime than Yates in this shot LOL

[suckmymuscle]

you answered your own question. If Ronnie has superior pecs, delts and arms, wouldn't that mean they are better than Dorian's?

  I said "supposedly" better. And no, as my previous posts demonstrate, they do not work for Ronnie in his favor. For instance, Ronnie has bigger triceps than Dorian, but loses an entire mandatory due to them! He has a back that is as big as Dorian's, but loses the back double biceps because of his symmetry issues.

so you have 2 relevant sources. I also have 2 sources that refer to Ronnie's conditioning as the best of all-time.

  Actually, Dorian's conditioning has been mentioned by far more people than that. The evidence? Dorian's conditioning still is regarded as something special to our days, whereas Ronnie's is not.

SUCKMYMUSCLE


[/quote]

[suckmymuscle]

you can't be serious. I know you are just saying that to save face. There's no way in hell you can honestly tell me that Dorian looks "harder" in these pics than Ronnie.

  To save face? I have a solid argument on my side, whereas you don't. Dorian overral looked much harder than Ronnie, which is evidence of low subcutaneous water levels. Even if he were retaining water under his arms - which is not the case - he looked harder all over, which is evidence that he had less overral water than Ronnie. the fact that is not as defined overral proves that your theory is incorrect.

we don't know for sure that Dorian was 3% body fat with 0 water. You're basing your assessment off what magazine writers said. I'm telling you right now they are most likely wrong. They are journalists - NOT exercise physiologists. When I look at 01 ASC Ronnie, I see all the tell-tale signs of better conditioning.

  "Tell-tale signs of better conditioning"? No, that would be Doran's sunken facial skin and cheekbones, an indicative of extremely low subcutaneous fat and water. Dorian has it; Ronnie doesen't.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[suckmymuscle]

I said 2 bodybuilders will demonstrate the same level of overall definition when they have equal body fat and water levels, carry the same lean mass, and are the same height.

  No, you didn't. That is a lie. I even asked you if low subcutaneous fat and water are all that is required to explain separations, and you replied in the positive. How exactly are stature and muscle mass relevant in muscular definition? So don't use bullshit arguments and live up to what you wrote. For your theory to be correct, one 6' man at 3% bodyfat and 0 water should be exactly as separated as a 7' tall man with the exact same amount of subcutaneous fat and water. This is also true for a 200 lbs vs a 300 lbs one.

  There are other factors that influence definition, but height and muscle mass are not among them. By the way, if you are saying that height and muscle bulk affect separations, then you are agreeing with me that there are factors other than subcutaneous bodyfat and water that affect separations. So nice going! You are wrong about the specific factors, but thanks anyway about agreeing with me.

you haven't proven anyone wrong b/c your assessment is based on the personal conjecture of magazine writers. Unless you can post a document with the results of Dorian's hydrostatic weighing, your argument is as valid as me saying "Ronnie carried even less fat and water than Dorian."

  Remember that you said that subcutaneous fat and water are all that is required to explain separations. Now, Dorian was as low in bodyfat as Ronnie while deing drier. According to your theory, he should be at least as much if not more separated than Dorian, but what I see is that Ronnie is much, much more separated overral. Dorian was not holding more subcutaneous fat and water than Ronnie; that is not debatable. I may accept the possibility that he was carrying the same amount, but not more. Regardless, Ronnie's far more defined overral look is proof positive that your theory is wrong.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[NeoSeminole]

It doesn't get any more conclusive than this boys......Coleman closer to his prime than Yates in this shot LOL

tsk tsk, you make it too easy for others to refute you. First of all, Dorian is closer to the camera than Ronnie which makes him appear larger than he really is. The only reason Ronnie looks "taller" in the pic is b/c it's crooked. Look at their knees if you don't believe me. Second, Dorian is fully hitting the pose while Ronnie is still in transition. Notice Ronnie's back is scrunched up and his arms pulled back. He's not flaring his lats yet like Dorian to make himself appear wider. Third, Dorian is closer to his prime than Ronnie. Dorian weighed 260 lbs there in his supposed 'best ever' conditioning. Ronnie may have weighed 260 lbs at that contest, but he's far from his trademark conditioning. His glutes, which he's renowned for, look smooth and soft.

[NeoSeminole]

I said "supposedly" better. And no, as my previous posts demonstrate, they do not work for Ronnie in his favor. For instance, Ronnie has bigger triceps than Dorian, but loses an entire mandatory due to them! He has a back that is as big as Dorian's, but loses the back double biceps because of his symmetry issues.

we've already discussed this. I guess you enjoy getting verbally raped up the ass. Dorian wins the side triceps NOT b/c of his triceps, but b/c he presents an overall better package in this pose. As for the back double biceps, it comes down to personal preference. Even Pobrecito agreed.

Actually, Dorian's conditioning has been mentioned by far more people than that. The evidence? Dorian's conditioning still is regarded as something special to our days, whereas Ronnie's is not.

I've heard several people remark that Ronnie's conditioning at the 01 ASC represents the pinnacle of what's humanly possible.

[NeoSeminole]

To save face? I have a solid argument on my side, whereas you don't. Dorian overral looked much harder than Ronnie, which is evidence of low subcutaneous water levels.

I didn't ask who you think looks harder overall. I asked who looks more shredded and harder in the comparisons b/c I knew you would try to weasel your way out of giving a direct answer. I dare you to ask people who don't follow bodybuilding "who looks harder in these pics?" My bet is they will pick Ronnie. The only reason you chose Dorian is to save face.

"Tell-tale signs of better conditioning"? No, that would be Doran's sunken facial skin and cheekbones, an indicative of extremely low subcutaneous fat and water. Dorian has it; Ronnie doesen't.

Ronnie at the 01 ASC had a sunken face, grainy skin, and definition in areas that Dorian lacked.

[NeoSeminole]

How exactly are stature and muscle mass relevant in muscular definition?

for someone who claims to hold a degree in exercise physiology, I'm surprised that you would ask such a dumb question.

the more muscle that a person carries, the more fat that is displaced as a result. Here's a simple analogy to help you better understand. Imagine a deflated balloon with a bunch of dots on the exterior. The inside of the balloon represents muscle while the dots represent body fat. Now slowly inflate the balloon. You'll notice the dots begin to drift farther apart. In effect, the fat is being 'spread thin' over the muscle. This is why height and lean mass are relevant to definition.

[GOLEAFSGO]

pretty small thread u got goin here

[slaveboy1980]

they like to group masturbate

[IceCold]

maybe if you actually looked at the similarities between 96/97 dorian and Greg you might understand...

yep, we have looked

so have the judges, fans, and other bbers. 

it seems you dont understand reality. 

[IceCold]

Ronnie wins the:

front double biceps



front lat spread



side chest



most muscular

front double bicep i agree in and mm.

but not lat spread - no way.

also, that side chest is bit misleading.  coleman looks great in it, but that is from 98 when he was totally dwarfed onstage by nasser.

nasser never dwarfed dorian. 

[pumpster]

but not lat spread - no way.

nasser never dwarfed dorian. 

The Keg's owned in DOZENS of shots involving various good BBs, including these with Nasser. Back double-bi Nasser's more cut AND bigger.

Lat spread Coleman's better-greater taper, far more detail despite the fact this is supposed to be one of Yates' strongest shots, one that hides his flaws nicely. Yates' hardness & density in back shots isn't evident at all in upper body front poses, as proved here..Icecold should spell out exactly where in the front lat spread Yates has any advantage, let alone is even comparable-where? He doesn't have Coleman's detail or refinement, in fact he doesn't have much detail at all.

[Iceman1981]

front double bicep i agree in and mm.

but not lat spread - no way.

also, that side chest is bit misleading.  coleman looks great in it, but that is from 98 when he was totally dwarfed onstage by nasser.

nasser never dwarfed dorian. 

Who cares if Nasser never dwarfed yates.

Yates has small arms, small delts and his whole upper chest is missing in the side chest pose. Ronnie beats him in all of these areas including the hams. Ronnie wins this pose easy.

[IceCold]

Who cares if Nasser never dwarfed yates.

Yates has small arms, small delts and his whole upper chest is missing in the side chest pose. Ronnie beats him in all of these areas including the hams. Ronnie wins this pose easy.

disagree.

that 1st pic is from a guest posing spot,

but coleman has gyno and his front delts overpower everything in the front shots.

yates upper chest is not missing and his delts are huge - they just arent out of proportion like ronnie's.

[IceCold]

besides, ronnie himself said dorian had the best side tricep pose.

hulkster, dont even talk about ronnie being humble.  he said in it 03 after 6 Olympia wins.

[NeoSeminole]

besides, ronnie himself said dorian had the best side tricep pose.

hulkster, dont even talk about ronnie being humble.  he said in it 03 after 6 Olympia wins.

no one's disputing that Dorian wins the side triceps.

[pumpster]

besides, ronnie himself said dorian had the best side tricep pose.

For those who don't know better, side triceps does not mean better overall triceps. Coleman kills Yates on overall triceps size.

[IceCold]

no one's disputing that Dorian wins the side triceps.

i meant to say side chest.

issue FLEX July 2003. 

[IceCold]

For those who don't know better, side triceps does not mean better overall triceps. Coleman kills Yates on overall triceps size.

for those who dont know better, everything is considered in every pose - not just tricep size or biceps in the back double pose.

you seem to distort reality to conform with your beliefs, despite how retarted they are.

like a bowflex substituting a gym. 

by the way, yates triceps kills ronnies in THAT pose.

[Man of Steel]

I'm fixin to drop a big deuce, but first I plan to print every page of this thread and wipe my ass with it when I'm done.

[pumpster]

for those who dont know better, everything is considered in every pose - not just tricep size or biceps in the back double pose.

you seem to distort reality to conform with your beliefs, despite how retarted they are.

like a bowflex substituting a gym. 

by the way, yates triceps kills ronnies in THAT pose.

STILL WAITING FOR DETAILZ ON HOW AND WHERE YATES IS EVEN COMPARABLE IN THIS SHOT WITH NO DETAIL OR DENSITY IN FRONT POSES...GO AHEAD. HE DOESN'T EVEN HAVE TRAPS IN COMPARISON.

[natural al]

I'm fixin to drop a big deuce, but first I plan to print every page of this thread and wipe my ass with it when I'm done.

save some time, go to about page 100 print that one as many times as needed and go from there, it's been the same pics and comparisons since then.  Lots of millage out of those dorian 93 relaxed poses...

[the shadow]

save some time, go to about page 100 print that one as many times as needed and go from there, it's been the same pics and comparisons since then.  Lots of millage out of those dorian 93 relaxed poses...

page 100?.. no need to got page 100 ,just go to page no. 2..its all the same...yates ......coleman coleman..... and yates..i think so this thread is never ending..