Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce

[IceCold]

show me one poll that directly compared Ronnie and Dorian at their bests, with excellent comparisons like we have on the internet these days.

you will never find one.

it does not exist.

Given the visuals, dorian looses in the opinion of almost everyone.

remember, dorian had less than 10% of the votes on average in Iceman's polls all over the internet. Ronnie had the rest.

don't like it?

well too fucking bad..

elite fitness.com

mayhem

and numerous polls in the magazines.

i dont know the exact issues - i can check later - but they were from 99-02 and they included everything from best bber of all time (dorian got 2nd to arnold), most muscular, best back etc.

but, yet, you'll find some excuse as to why people who subscribe to a bbing mag dont know what they're talking about, but people like pumpster who vote on your polls do.

[IceCold]

you should care.

the pros, writers, fans and insiders know the difference between a great Mr. O for his time ( pre tear dorian) and a Mr. O. who advanced the sport to the next level beyond dorian (Ronnie at his peak).

exactly - the you would read the quotes about dorian from people like ronnie.

what did ronnie really do to advance the sport?

look at it now.

when yates retired, bbing was really starting to grow - espn aired shows, the ppv's for the olympia.

now, everyone is saying how bbing is dead.

look at the guys in the 90's and the condition and shape they achieved in order to compete with dorian.  now, there is no comparison between the bad talent today and the great talent a decade ago.

thanks ronnie.

[IceCold]

Neither ND nor Pumpster are likely to sway each others opinion.  Nevertheless, I will offer the following.  Dorian dominated his entire career, which can't be disputed.  His record in competition speaks for itself.  Those such as Pumpster may believe that Coleman in his prime is superior; however, it can easily be concluded that had Dorian faced 98-99 Coleman, he would have continued to dominate the Olympia stage just as he did in 1997 and in years prior.

In 1998, which to many was Coleman at his conditioned best, saw a victory by the slimmest of margins over a less than best Flex Wheeler.  The same Flex Wheeler, who could not even come close to touching Dorian Yates in competition, as evidenced by the straight first and wide margin of victories by Dorian.  Logically, based upon actual documented judging history, had Yates returned in 1998, he would have taken Coleman apart. 

exactly.

well said.

in addition, in 93, flex called yates "untouchable".  in 99, after many more pro wins, flex not only didnt say anything about ronnie in 99 or aftewards, but thought he should have won and turned his back to the judges showing his disapproval.

i'm not talking about what flex said after his sole source of income was to say whatever blechman told him to say in MD with ronnie on the cover that month.


countdown to another hulkster meltdown and excuse list


5....

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[Iceman1981]

Aren't all quotes subjective?

You are the one who decided quotes are the only thing that mean anything, even though they are only as valid as any words from anyone. But if they are going to be your weapon of choice then you can at least accept the myriad which support the Ronnie argument from people within the industry, including Dorian's (now mentioned ad nauseum) famous admission that super-massive/shredded-gluted Ronnie 2003 would beat him.

Great post. If they use quotes, they must acknowlege those quotes about Ronnie, especially the quotes from yates and Peter (ND's best friends). He chooses not to and looks stupid for doing so. If he accepts a quote from Peter, he must accept ALL quotes from Peter. He is picking and choosing. I have stated before, Ronnie at his best is unbeatable and has the best back of All-Time. Atleast the quotes agree with the Ronnie side. LOL Let's keep posting and see how dumb ND is, that's the best thing he is good at anyway.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Aren't all quotes subjective?

You are the one who decided quotes are the only thing that mean anything, even though they are only as valid as any words from anyone. But if they are going to be your weapon of choice then you can at least accept the myriad which support the Ronnie argument from people within the industry, including Dorian's (now mentioned ad nauseum) famous admission that super-massive/shredded-gluted Ronnie 2003 would beat him.

Hmm NO not all quotes are subjective , either a person is bone dry & rock hard or he's NOT either a person has great balance & proportion between their muscles or they don't either Ronnie's calves are to small for his quads or they're not , either a person can effectively hit the mandatory pose per the official criteria or they can't

subjective is who is the best of all time thats arguable , who has the best back or the best quads thats arguable . so to answer your question NO not all quotes are subjective.

[NarcissisticDeity]

that would be intelligent.

ND is about as stupid as they come.

probably still bitter about not getting the promotion at McD's..

I'm a hell of a lot smarter than you , you're the moron who claims Kevin Horton is wrong about the B&W he took of Yates lol you're the idiot who said Ronnie is wrong when he said he was better conditioned in 1998 , you're the dummy who said you're just as qualified to judge a contest sitting at home on your computer than professional judges are who are live & in person lol you're the dullard who said the judged get a pay check and they get told what to do by Uncle Joe lol

its got to the point where you dread typing any critique out of a massive fear its going to get trounced on by the more intelligent of us , so you post most musculars of low quality lol you sucker you're fucking owned especially the moment you claimed everyone was wrong and you're right .

[NarcissisticDeity]

no according to bodybuilding criteria, ronnie would crush dorian. and its not only my opinion its the opinion of many in the biz (for example check icemans post).

also what you call bb criteria is in fact in the end someones opinion (even if going by a rulebook). there is no need to write 1000s of words. long posts of bs may fool some people, but not slaveboy 

No sorry sport Ronnie doesn't crush Dorian according to the criteria thats my whole point ! balance & proportion Dorian wins , density & conditioning Dorian wins , muscular bulk ( depending on the year ) Dorian wins , posing & presentation Dorian wins . what are you left with?

peak Ronnie is 1998 and 2001 Dorian is bigger than both versions , better conditioned and density ( although it may be tied ) he has much better balance & proportion , Dorian's posing is better and why? because he can effectively hit the mandatory poses , either version of peak  Ronnie would get beat Dorian just meets the criteria better

Ronnie 2003 a lot heavier than Dorian but his conditioning & density still lag behind especially the bigger he gets , his balance & proportion are their all-time worse he still can't pose , Dorian's beaten many a bigger less conditioned men

Dorian has to many advantages

[bizzy]

The truth of this whole matter is that we will never know.
Unless Ronnie and Dorian stood side by side with each other
at their very best everything else is speculation and opinion.
My opinion regardless of what anyone else says is Ronnie 1999
at prejudging is the best physique to ever grace a bodybuilding
stage. I do think Dorian's back double bicep pose was harder and
more detailed than Ronnie's ever was. (Mainly just refering to his back.
Ronnie always seemed to have a slight film of water, thicker skin or something
in that area that made it less detailed than Dorians. Look at the semi relaxed pose
straight on from the front and Ronnie looks dang near perfect whereas Dorian
didn't nearly have the asthetics in the front relaxed pose as Ronnie. (Talking 99 Ronnie here...)
I could go on and on but once again WE WILL TRULY NEVER KNOW because
they never stood side by side, pose for pose at their best. Opinions are like
       s: Everyone has one; including my own.     

[IceCold]

The truth of this whole matter is that we will never know.
Unless Ronnie and Dorian stood side by side with each other
at their very best everything else is speculation and opinion.
My opinion regardless of what anyone else says is Ronnie 1999
at prejudging is the best physique to ever grace a bodybuilding
stage. I do think Dorian's back double bicep pose was harder and
more detailed than Ronnie's ever was. (Mainly just refering to his back.
Ronnie always seemed to have a slight film of water, thicker skin or something
in that area that made it less detailed than Dorians. Look at the semi relaxed pose
straight on from the front and Ronnie looks dang near perfect whereas Dorian
didn't nearly have the asthetics in the front relaxed pose as Ronnie. (Talking 99 Ronnie here...)
I could go on and on but once again WE WILL TRULY NEVER KNOW because
they never stood side by side, pose for pose at their best. Opinions are like
       s: Everyone has one; including my own.     

you say ronnie was the best in 99, but yates was in better condition.

[Hulkster]

Great post. If they use quotes, they must acknowlege those quotes about Ronnie, especially the quotes from yates and Peter (ND's best friends). He chooses not to and looks stupid for doing so. If he accepts a quote from Peter, he must accept ALL quotes from Peter. He is picking and choosing. I have stated before, Ronnie at his best is unbeatable and has the best back of All-Time. Atleast the quotes agree with the Ronnie side. LOL Let's keep posting and see how dumb ND is, that's the best thing he is good at anyway.

well said.

[NarcissisticDeity]

well said.

This coming from the guy who said McGough is WRONG that Ronnie was off condition wise compared to 98 lol 

you make it to easy

[IceCold]

Great post. If they use quotes, they must acknowlege those quotes about Ronnie, especially the quotes from yates and Peter (ND's best friends). He chooses not to and looks stupid for doing so. If he accepts a quote from Peter, he must accept ALL quotes from Peter. He is picking and choosing. I have stated before, Ronnie at his best is unbeatable and has the best back of All-Time. Atleast the quotes agree with the Ronnie side. LOL Let's keep posting and see how dumb ND is, that's the best thing he is good at anyway.

hulkster and bowflex are the ones who only count things in their favor.

for instance, the fact that yates was still the winner in 94 - from PM.

the fact the the polls in the mags dont count, but the internet polls do.

the list of their hypocrisy - mostly hulkster - is about as long as this thread.

[NarcissisticDeity]

hulkster and bowflex are the ones who only count things in their favor.

for instance, the fact that yates was still the winner in 94 - from PM.

the fact the the polls in the mags dont count, but the internet polls do.

the list of their hypocrisy - mostly hulkster - is about as long as this thread.

It's so easy to trap these guys because they have warped logic .

[bizzy]

Ice Cold - I said Yates was better conditioned in the back.
Definately Ronnie was better conditioned in chest and glute striations.
 Everybody holds a little more fat, water, thicker skin;
whatever it is that makes you look smoother in some areas more than others.
I was saying Dorian definately looked more peeled in his back.
That is all....
Overall condition is hard to say...They were very close!

[pumpster]

Ice Cold - I said Yates was better conditioned in the back.
Definately Ronnie was better conditioned in chest and glute striations.
 Everybody holds a little more fat, water, thicker skin;
whatever it is that makes you look smoother in some areas more than others.
I was saying Dorian definately looked more peeled in his back.
That is all....
Overall condition is hard to say...They were very close!

Absolutely right; Coleman was more shredded than Yates, Yates debatably harder.

Don't forget though, Coleman's not white so that doesn't count to this twit.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Ice Cold - I said Yates was better conditioned in the back.
Definately Ronnie was better conditioned in chest and glute striations.
 Everybody holds a little more fat, water, thicker skin;
whatever it is that makes you look smoother in some areas more than others.
I was saying Dorian definately looked more peeled in his back.
That is all....
Overall condition is hard to say...They were very close!

No Dorian is the yardtstick in which conditioned mass if measured by , don't mistake striations as being better conditioned its not people can have striations and still be holding water being dry means you have no water or fat under the skin to obscure the muscle , being dense is a step beyond that it means even the intramuscular fat is gone this my friends is the epitome of bodybuilding conditioning and ironically Yates is the biggest and densest Mr Olympia to date .

overall conditioning Dorian has already said specifically compared to Ronnie he's better conditioned ( and has better balance ) Lee Priest said Dorian is better conditioned specifically compared to Ronnie and Peter McGough has said NO ONE has ever been as dry or hard as Dorian Yates , so I think its safe to assume Dorian is the better conditioned of the two

[bizzy]

Striations are much more impressive to me than hardness.
There are tons of guys with todays drugs that have extreme
hardness but very little seperation and striations.
As far as density goes has Dorian ever been this dense?
Maybe I'm dense in the head but I've never seen this much dense muscle on Dorian.
Once again...ONly my opinion...

[slaveboy1980]

time is an eternal wheel

[the choad]

Second longest thread in the history of online forums....

[suckmymuscle]

Your stupid response about the comparisons, is well, STUPID. The comparisons made in this thread are as good as it gets. Everyone else accepts the comparisons except you nuthuggers. Now grow up and stop whining. You're nothing but excuses.

  What a fucking joke! Your copmparisons are garbage. Why? Because you didn't control for scale either for depth or height, you chose pics where they are under different lighting and with different contrast from the cameras. I mean, give me a fucking break! At least SemenHole's comparisons were scaled for height and he chose pics with more or less imilar contrast. He didn't scale for width and he photoshopped some bodyparts, but at least his comparisosn had one or two merits - yours have none.

About most dominant. Well, the quotes by bodybuilders, bodybuilding experts, JUDGES, writers, photographers speak for themselves. You have no argument. CASE CLOSED.

  Oh, I do have an argument! You mistook what I said and thought that I claimed that there are more quotes saying that Dorian is the greatest bodybuilder ever than there are quotes saying this about Ronnie. I never said such thing. The word "dominant" refers to how each bodybuilder faired against their respective competitors. What I meant by saying that Dorian was more dominant was that the distance between him and his competitors was greater than the distance between Ronnie and his at most of their respective contests. Dorian won 5 of his 6 olympias with straight-firsts scores, compared to ronnie who only won 4 out of 8 with straight-firsts. So who was a more dominant Mr.Olympia? answer: not Ronnie!

Quotes from Flex & Dillet from 93/95 are only mentioned for 93/95 MORON.
Here is a gift for you from your two friends Flex & Dillet which means of All-Time, not specific years  

Flex Wheeler - MD, February 2004

like Sergio Oliva, an awesome bodybuilder way ahead of his time, and like Flex Wheeler, who had an absolutely perfect, beautiful physique. No one will match Sergio or Flex and now Ronnie."[/b]

Also, Ronnie has 4 different physiques (Mr. O 98, 99, 03 ASC 01) that is concidered the best physique of All-Time.

yates only has 2 (Mr. O 93, 95)

It sure looks like Ronnie was more dominant  

  First of all, you stupid idiot, I never denied that there were more quotes stating that Ronnie is the greatest Mr.Olympia ever; what I claimed is that Dorian was more dominant, which is not open to debate since Dorian has more straight-firsts wins than Ronnie even though he won less Olympias!

  Secondly, there is a difference between McGough's quote that Dorian is the most conditioned ever and that ronnie at this best is unbeatable. The difference? The word "ever". McGough said flat out that "no bodybuilder has ever been as hard and dry as the man who won six Sandows". Conversely, when he said that Ronnie would be unbeatable, he could be saying that he would be unbeatable by any bodybuilders who ever stepped onstage, or only by his current crop of competitors. We'll never know, and here's where you get owned, dumbass.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[suckmymuscle]

no according to bodybuilding criteria, ronnie would crush dorian.

  No, Dorian would crush Ronnie, a point that has already been proven...

and its not only my opinion its the opinion of many in the biz (for example check icemans post).

  The quotes about Ronnie being the best of all times are just opinions, and none of those quotes are from I.F.B.B judges, so I don't really care...

also what you call bb criteria is in fact in the end someones opinion (even if going by a rulebook). there is no need to write 1000s of words. long posts of bs may fool some people, but not slaveboy 

  Sure, the criteria was created by assorting the opinions of many professional judges on what constitutes the ideal physique, and it is definitely subjective. But it doesen't matter because we need some stable standard to judge physiques and it is the standard by which physiques are judged by the I.F.B.B, and using the criteria is the only way to determine who would win in a hypothetical match-up between the two becasue otherwise we'll be just giving our opinions and no conclusion could be drawn. as for my posts being bulshit, I prefer to believe that you lack capacity to comprehend what's written there. Such well thought-out analyses tends to be boring to people like you who lack the intellect to understand it. I forgive you!

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[Hulkster]

As far as density goes has Dorian ever been this dense?
Maybe I'm dense in the head but I've never seen this much dense muscle on Dorian.

we have been saying this for 1400+ pages now.

the nuthuggers go on about dorian's density without realizing that he was surpassed in this department by Ronnie 99.

its not 93 anymore, as you can clearly see:

[Hulkster]

dorian could not match Ronnie in the density department.

I mean honestly:

[PANDAEMONIUM]

  What a fucking joke! Your copmparisons are garbage. Why? Because you didn't control for scale either for depth or height, you chose pics where they are under different lighting and with different contrast from the cameras. I mean, give me a fucking break! At least SemenHole's comparisons were scaled for height and he chose pics with more or less imilar contrast. He didn't scale for width and he photoshopped some bodyparts, but at least his comparisosn had one or two merits - yours have none.

  Oh, I do have an argument! You mistook what I said and thought that I claimed that there are more quotes saying that Dorian is the greatest bodybuilder ever than there are quotes saying this about Ronnie. I never said such thing. The word "dominant" refers to how each bodybuilder faired against their respective competitors. What I meant by saying that Dorian was more dominant was that the distance between him and his competitors was greater than the distance between Ronnie and his at most of their respective contests. Dorian won 5 of his 6 olympias with straight-firsts scores, compared to ronnie who only won 4 out of 8 with straight-firsts. So who was a more dominant Mr.Olympia? answer: not Ronnie!


  First of all, you stupid idiot, I never denied that there were more quotes stating that Ronnie is the greatest Mr.Olympia ever; what I claimed is that Dorian was more dominant, which is not open to debate since Dorian has more straight-firsts wins than Ronnie even though he won less Olympias!

  Secondly, there is a difference between McGough's quote that Dorian is the most conditioned ever and that ronnie at this best is unbeatable. The difference? The word "ever". McGough said flat out that "no bodybuilder has ever been as hard and dry as the man who won six Sandows". Conversely, when he said that Ronnie would be unbeatable, he could be saying that he would be unbeatable by any bodybuilders who ever stepped onstage, or only by his current crop of competitors. We'll never know, and here's where you get owned, dumbass.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

wut

[Hulkster]

seriously.

this is total domination by Ronnie..

density was one area, among many others, that dorian does not hold up well against Ronnie.

just look:

Ronnie has dry dense striated muscle...dorian well, lets just say that 93 was a long time ago...