Author Topic: Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce  (Read 3079050 times)

NeoSeminole

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #39275 on: December 30, 2007, 06:24:02 PM »
I see you finally realized your error of accusing Iceman of saying something he never said. ;)

He wouldn't need to be rock-hard; he would need to be harder than Coleman, which he would be when both are at that weight.

Ronnie didn't show up at 287 lbs shredded until many years after Dorian retired. So your comment about Dorian only needing to be harder than Ronnie is irrelevant. If Dorian was as conditioned as you say at 287 lbs, then he would have stepped on stage in that shape. It's that simple. Since it never happened, it's safe to assume he was never as heavy and rock hard.

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You make it seem like Coleman was rock-hard at that weight, which he wasn't.  Coleman was a fat sponge of fat and water in his 2003 Olympia rendition.

::)







Mike Matarazzo - Flex, January 2004

"Ronnie had so much dense muscle that it looked as though his skin could no longer hold it and he'd explode. His quads were so full and dense, they don't look real."

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And what are your credentials? Oh, that's right: you have a degree in exercise physiology, which means you know more about physique assesment than a guy who's seen and photographed all top pros in person. Not.

you just answered your own question. I have more education about the human body than a photographer.

IceCold

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #39276 on: December 30, 2007, 06:43:32 PM »

you just answered your own question. I have more education about the human body than a photographer.


that may be true, but the two have nothing to do with each other.

you're trying to compare to one of the industries top photographers with a shit load of years worth of experience.

bbing criteris is not something studied in school.

notice how many former players and coaches are NFL analysts for tv - they dont have oridinary mo's giving their opinion.

there has to be some credibility (something that you and hulkster dont have - neither do i - hence the quotes).
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NeoSeminole

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #39277 on: December 30, 2007, 07:02:33 PM »
that may be true, but the two have nothing to do with each other. you're trying to compare to one of the industries top photographers with a shit load of years worth of experience. bbing criteris is not something studied in school.
notice how many former players and coaches are NFL analysts for tv - they dont have oridinary mo's giving their opinion. there has to be some credibility (something that you and hulkster dont have - neither do i - hence the quotes).

I wasn't comparing who knows more about bodybuilding criteria. I was strictly talking about conditioning. I'm telling you, as someone who studied anatomy at the university level, there is no way Dorian at 287 lbs had better conditioning than 03 Ronnie. A drop in subcutaneous fat and water reduces the space between the skin and underlying muscle. The result is greater definition. In layman's terms: as one sheds fat and water, they begin to display more separations and striations. This is basic anatomy and holds true for all humans - even Dorian.

Hulkster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #39278 on: December 30, 2007, 07:24:26 PM »
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A drop in subcutaneous fat and water reduces the space between the skin and underlying muscle. The result is greater definition. In layman's terms: as one sheds fat and water, they begin to display more separations and striations. This is basic anatomy and holds true for all humans - even Dorian.

exactly.

and that explains quite clearly the difference between these screenshots of 99 ronnie and 93 dorian.

99 ronnie had much better conditioning than dorian ever did.

its pretty damn obvious.
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Hulkster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #39279 on: December 30, 2007, 07:30:28 PM »
especially with dorian's rolls of loose skin in the lat spread. lol

the ones that "don't exist' LOL

 ::)
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chaos

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #39280 on: December 30, 2007, 07:31:57 PM »
So with 39700+ posts in this thread, what is the conclusion?
Liar!!!!Filt!!!!

GoneAway

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #39281 on: December 30, 2007, 08:39:14 PM »
hulkster, in ur last post with the 93 vs. 99 comparisons, can u exaplin exactly where ronnie had the better conditioning than dorian? thanks.

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #39282 on: December 30, 2007, 09:11:31 PM »
I see you finally realized your error of accusing Iceman of saying something he never said. ;)

  Why are you defending him? Are you his woman or something? I did say that, and I agree 100% with it, so I don't see what you're bitching about.

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Ronnie didn't show up at 287 lbs shredded until many years after Dorian retired. So your comment about Dorian only needing to be harder than Ronnie is irrelevant. If Dorian was as conditioned as you say at 287 lbs, then he would have stepped on stage in that shape. It's that simple. Since it never happened, it's safe to assume he was never as heavy and rock hard.

  Dorian was not very conditioned at that weight, but he was more conditioned than Coleman. The reason why he never stepped onstage at that weight is because, unlike Coleman at the 2003 Olympia, Dorian wanted to step onstage with practically no fat or water in sis system. You seem to be implying that Ronnie at 287 lbs had Dorian's conditioning at 257 lbs, which is why he could "afford" to step onstage at that weight. Well, guess what? Ronnie was not even close to Dorian's conditioning at 257 lbs. Even at 247 lbs his conditioning wasn't as good. ;)

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Mike Matarazzo - Flex, January 2004

"Ronnie had so much dense muscle that it looked as though his skin could no longer hold it and he'd explode. His quads were so full and dense, they don't look real."

  Irrelevant quote. I want to see a quote from anyone saying that Ronnie ahd better conditioning than Dorian had at the 1995 Olympia. Let's see...

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you just answered your own question. I have more education about the human body than a photographer.

  You have more education about how muscle works and how to properly perform exercises, but more knowledge about how to evaluate physiques than a guy who has photographed up close all the top guys? No. I see no logical correlation between both things. An artist, like Michaelangelo, probably knew more about assesing physiques than you do. ;)

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NeoSeminole

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #39283 on: December 30, 2007, 10:08:25 PM »
Why are you defending him? Are you his woman or something? I did say that, and I agree 100% with it, so I don't see what you're bitching about.

ha ha ha ha, you are one pathetic little dipshit. You love to insult others and gang up when it's 4 on 1 but can't stand when you get a taste of your own medicine.

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Dorian was not very conditioned at that weight, but he was more conditioned than Coleman. The reason why he never stepped onstage at that weight is because, unlike Coleman at the 2003 Olympia, Dorian wanted to step onstage with practically no fat or water in sis system. You seem to be implying that Ronnie at 287 lbs had Dorian's conditioning at 257 lbs, which is why he could "afford" to step onstage at that weight. Well, guess what? Ronnie was not even close to Dorian's conditioning at 257 lbs. Even at 247 lbs his conditioning wasn't as good.

Dorian at 287 lbs was not even close to being the same condition as 03 Ronnie. The heaviest Dorian ever competed at was 275 lbs and we saw how horrible he looked. :-\





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Irrelevant quote. I want to see a quote from anyone saying that Ronnie ahd better conditioning than Dorian had at the 1995 Olympia. Let's see...

how's my quote irrelevant? You claimed Ronnie was "a sponge of fat and water" at the 03 Mr. Olympia. This is in direct contradiction to Mike Matarrazzo who said Ronnie looked dense.

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You have more education about how muscle works and how to properly perform exercises, but more knowledge about how to evaluate physiques than a guy who has photographed up close all the top guys? No. I see no logical correlation between both things. An artist, like Michaelangelo, probably knew more about assesing physiques than you do.

silly me, what was I thinking? I've only graduated with a 4-yr degree in exercise physiology and seen the insides of a human up close. Of course a guy who gets paid to operate a camera knows more about anatomy than me. ::)

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #39284 on: December 30, 2007, 10:43:30 PM »
ha ha ha ha, you are one pathetic little dipshit. You love to insult others and gang up when it's 4 on 1 but can't stand when you get a taste of your own medicine.

  SemenHole, considering that you have lied, tempered with pictures, manipulated semantics to try to prove your point and made openly racist innuendo, you're in no position to criticize me in any way, shape or form. ;)

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Dorian at 287 lbs was not even close to being the same condition as 03 Ronnie. The heaviest Dorian ever competed at was 275 lbs and we saw how horrible he looked. :-\

  Oh please, Dorian had a visible christmas-tree at 305 lbs and he would look worse than that at 18 lbs? And I know the picture you're talking about. Dorian is not under stage lights, has no oil on and you're comparing him to an onstage Coleman?

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how's my quote irrelevant? You claimed Ronnie was "a sponge of fat and water" at the 03 Mr. Olympia. This is in direct contradiction to Mike Matarrazzo who said Ronnie looked dense.

  Why is Coleman's 2003 physique not considered a standard of conditioning? There's a quote from Shawn Perrine saying that Dorian in those black-and-whites and Ronnie at the 2001 ASC had the most dense muscle mass ever. Ronnie at the 2003 Olympia looked soft. The only good pic of him is that one of the crab shot. I saw the video and he looks like garbage from the back and from the sides - due to the gut. Again, I'm still waiting for the quote stating that Ronnie 2003 Olympia had better conditioning than Dorian. I'm still waiting. ;)

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silly me, what was I thinking? I've only graduated with a 4-yr degree in exercise physiology and seen the insides of a human up close. Of course a guy who gets paid to operate a camera knows more about anatomy than me. ::)

  Again, what the hell has knowing how to perform exercises to do with evaluating physiques? Waht has anatomy to do with anything? Are you saying that you can judge physques better than he can because you can name the muscles of the Human body? There is no logic in your argument whatsoever.

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England_1

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #39285 on: December 30, 2007, 10:56:18 PM »
Brutal fat and loose neck skin  ::) ...you have the audacity to criticize Dorian and not this  ::)

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #39286 on: December 30, 2007, 11:02:32 PM »
Brutal fat and loose neck skin  ...you have the audacity to criticize Dorian and not this 


  Good point, Pobrecito. The Coleman fans are the ultimate hypocrites. But how can anyone argue with guys who are not reasonable? The difference between the Dorian supporters and the Ronnie ones is that none of us consider Dorian the greatest ever, but all the guys on the Coleman fans consider Ronnie the greatest bodybuilder ever. It's fan nut-hugging and adoration, plain and simple.

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NeoSeminole

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #39287 on: December 30, 2007, 11:24:34 PM »
Sir NeoSeminole, considering that you have lied, tempered with pictures, manipulated semantics to try to prove your point and made openly racist innuendo, you're in no position to criticize me in any way, shape or form.

oh brother, now you're just making stuff up for the sake of slinging mud at me! Prove I'm guilty of all those or shut up.

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Oh please, Dorian had a visible christmas-tree at 305 lbs and he would look worse than that at 18 lbs? And I know the picture you're talking about. Dorian is not under stage lights, has no oil on and you're comparing him to an onstage Coleman?

epic "Christmas tree." ::)





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Why is Coleman's 2003 physique not considered a standard of conditioning? There's a quote from Shawn Perrine saying that Dorian in those black-and-whites and Ronnie at the 2001 ASC had the most dense muscle mass ever. Ronnie at the 2003 Olympia looked soft. The only good pic of him is that one of the crab shot. I saw the video and he looks like garbage from the back and from the sides - due to the gut. Again, I'm still waiting for the quote stating that Ronnie 2003 Olympia had better conditioning than Dorian. I'm still waiting.

ha ha ha, is that all you got? Ronnie's physique at the 03 Mr. Olympia isn't regarded as the standard of conditioning so therefore his conditioning sucked? While it wasn't his best ever, it was still damn good especially for a 287 lbs bodybuilder. Ronnie had shredded arms, delts, pecs, lats, glutes, quads, and hamstrings. Only a bias moron such as yourself would say 03 Ronnie was "a sponge of fat and water."

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Again, what the hell has knowing how to perform exercises to do with evaluating physiques? Waht has anatomy to do with anything? Are you saying that you can judge physques better than he can because you can name the muscles of the Human body? There is no logic in your argument whatsoever.

why are you Dorian nuthuggers so fixated on my personal training background? I never said I know more about the human body b/c I'm a personal trainer. That was something you guys came up with. I get the impression you feel inferior to me. So you choose to attack my credential that carries the least weight - in this case, my training certification - while ignoring my 4-yr degree in exercise physiology and 2 yrs spent volunteering in the ER and OR.

NeoSeminole

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #39288 on: December 30, 2007, 11:32:41 PM »
Brutal fat and loose neck skin ...you have the audacity to criticize Dorian and not this

I can't help but laugh at your desperate attempt to deflect your hero's loose skin problem. ;D

Meso_z

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #39289 on: December 31, 2007, 01:42:55 AM »
Brutal fat and loose neck skin  ::) ...you have the audacity to criticize Dorian and not this  ::)



Its neck "striations".

GoneAway

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #39290 on: December 31, 2007, 02:04:23 AM »
the neck really doesn't have any important muscles that ronnie's rolls of fat/loose skin are obscuring, unlike the ones on dorian's lower back.

England_1

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #39291 on: December 31, 2007, 02:24:31 AM »
the neck really doesn't have any important muscles that ronnie's rolls of fat/loose skin are obscuring, unlike the ones on dorian's lower back.

The traps do originate all the way up from the external occipital protuberance dummy.
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Hulkster

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #39292 on: December 31, 2007, 03:45:20 AM »
Brutal fat and loose neck skin  ::) ...you have the audacity to criticize Dorian and not this  ::)



why do you keep bringing in Ronnie 2003 when faced with the fact that Ronnie 99 was in better condition than dorian? ???

 ::)

its stupid and pathetic. :-\

I was not talking of Ronnie 2003.
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GoneAway

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #39293 on: December 31, 2007, 06:13:52 AM »
hulkster, how about answering my question in the post just after your ronnie 99 vs. dorian 93 comparison, in page 1589. not hating, just want u to clarify which areas u think ronnie is more conditioned in and why.

Meso_z

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #39294 on: December 31, 2007, 06:44:42 AM »
hulkster, how about answering my question in the post just after your ronnie 99 vs. dorian 93 comparison, in page 1589. not hating, just want u to clarify which areas u think ronnie is more conditioned in and why.

As if 1600 pages were not enough to "solve" your "query".  ::)

GoneAway

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #39295 on: December 31, 2007, 06:56:34 AM »
As if 1600 pages were not enough to "solve" your "query".  ::)

you expect me to go back and search through 1600 pages for one answer? like ive said before in this thread, there needs to be an official competition of sorts, as per a proper show, in judging these two physiques, since (as you so snotty suggested) the answer to this question has been brought up before... so why did hulkster repeat the statement if he's said it before to (presumably) the same people over and over? because this thread has no order and it's just a bunch of 'he said' 'she said' crap, whereby namecalling ensues in almost every post and it turns into a 'who is quoted as the best physique by X Bodybuilder/Historian' thread.

i think a truce would have been much better, as it's clear that neither party will ever agree. theyre too ignorant and 'wowed' by the physiques of their hero for that.

Meso_z

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #39296 on: December 31, 2007, 07:05:53 AM »
I think the thread should have a poll or smthing.

GoneAway

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #39297 on: December 31, 2007, 07:14:32 AM »
possible way to end it is for hulk and narc to find the best pics of their heroes in the mandatory poses that you would do in a bbing contest (including symmetry round), post them up here or give them to the mr getbig judges, and let them do their thing. then the result is what would determine who is the winner out of the two.

SF1900

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #39298 on: December 31, 2007, 07:18:07 AM »
Holy crap, this thread has A LOT of responses. I don't think I have seen any thread on any board I go on with this much responses!
X

cht868

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Re: Hulkster I'm calling for a Truce
« Reply #39299 on: December 31, 2007, 08:55:27 AM »
Brutal fat and loose neck skin  ::) ...you have the audacity to criticize Dorian and not this  ::)





uh, where is the loose skin, just looks striated to me