Dorian Yates kicks Ronnie's ass Hulkster is a punk Bitch and fuck any truce

[bizzy]

...

[Hulkster]

I think the biggest difference is that Ronnie carried
10-12 pounds more muscle in 1999 than 98 or 2001
with very little if any difference in definition.
Here are two respected people that were there and
said Ronnie was just as ripped or sharper in 99.
Natural Mr. Olympia - John Hansen

When Ronnie won his first Mr. Olympia contest in 1998, it was one of the most exciting victories in the sport's history. His biceps, back and chest are absolutely incredible and nearly everyone agrees that he owns the Rear Double Biceps pose in this sport. Many people in the sport have also talked about the fact that Ronnie Coleman may be the best Mr. Olympia ever!
Last year, Ronnie was about ten pounds heavier and he was just as ripped as when he won the contest the first time in 1998.

Musclemag International 1999 Mr. Olympia Review By Johnny Fitness

Ronnie was gargantuan, herculean, and every adjective in between.
He was ripped, sharper than last year, and filled with a champions confidence.

Seen before but striations from the bottom of his pecs to top of his delts
and intercostals that are devoid of fat or water.

exactly. 

are you reading this CigaretteMan?

[RocketSwitch625]

Just look at the synthol in Nasser's biceps there and Flex has it in his delts too. Is it any wonder that Coleman won in 1998 and 1999? The bitch tits indicated drug abuse but it's not as bad as site injecting in the eyes of judges.

[RocketSwitch625]

exactly. 

are you reading this CigaretteMan?

Why don't you just start a new thread for the 98/99 debate? It's getting boring now and to be honest this thread is about us Yates fans making you Coleman fans look small. 'Nuff said.

[England_1]

Man, Dorian's forearms were absolutely MASSIVE in blood and guts. They had to be damn near 20"

[RocketSwitch625]

Blood & Guts The Sequel:

[RocketSwitch625]

Sulkster's favourite retired bodybuilder sporting a pregnant belly at 245lbs:



Now that's what I call SAD.

[CigaretteMan]

exactly. 

are you reading this CigaretteMan?

  I've just pulled out my stacks of mag - I collect all the issues of bodybuilding mags since 1988 -, and Ironman, MuscleMag and FLEX all mention that Ronnie's conditioning in 1999 was inferior to 1998. Only MD says Ronnie was just as conditioned as in the previous year. What do you have to say about that?

[bizzy]

  I've just pulled out my stacks of mag - I collect all the issues of bodybuilding mags since 1988 -, and Ironman, MuscleMag and FLEX all mention that Ronnie's conditioning in 1999 was inferior to 1998. Only MD says Ronnie was just as conditioned as in the previous year. What do you have to say about that?

Musclemag's official Olympia report actually said Ronnie was sharper in 99 than 98.
March, 2000 issue.
I havn't read the others but that means 50% of the mags you mentioned said he was
equal or better conditioned.
The conditioning aspect of those years is so close it's really negligible.
My whole point all along - even if Ronnie's 98 condition was slightly better than 99
(not saying it is though)
the extra 10-12 pounds of muscle he had in 99 makes that version better.
Not to mention the pretty severe gyno he had in 98.
Many people only consider bodyfat and dryness when analyzing condition.
Many forget that the fullness of the muscles is also part of overall conditioning.
This is why many people prefer Dorian's 269 3 weeks out condition over the 257
he brought to the stage in 1993.

[CigaretteMan]

Musclemag's official Olympia report actually said Ronnie was sharper in 99 than 98.
March, 2000 issue

  What I read is that Ronnie was holding a slight film of water in 1999. Greg Zulac in his columsn at the time remarked that Ronie was bigger and fuller, but not sharper - he was at the contest.

My whole point all along - even if Ronnie's 98 condition was slightly better than 99

  It was.

the extra 10-12 pounds of muscle he had in 99 makes that version better.

  That is a separate issue. I love Ronnie in all his Olympia renditions - except 2001 -, but the bottom line is that he wasn't as conditioned in 1999 as he was in 1998.

Not to mention the pretty severe gyno he had in 98.

  Agreed. But again that is a separate issue.

Many people only consider bodyfat and dryness when analyzing condition.
Many forget that the fullness of the muscles is also part of overall conditioning

  Well, I disagree here. Fullness is not a part of conditioning because it doesen't make one's muscles more defined or harder. Bodybuilders are at their fullest in the off-season, when thye are at their worst in terms of conditioning.

This is why many people prefer Dorian's 269 3 weeks out condition over the 257
he brought to the stage in 1993.

  He did look better, but not more conditioned.

[Hulkster]

  I've just pulled out my stacks of mag - I collect all the issues of bodybuilding mags since 1988 -, and Ironman, MuscleMag and FLEX all mention that Ronnie's conditioning in 1999 was inferior to 1998. Only MD says Ronnie was just as conditioned as in the previous year. What do you have to say about that?

refer to the Ironman 99 contest coverage.

Lonnie Teper specifically mentions Ronnie was sharper - esp. the quads.

so does the Muscle and Fitness mag - in fact, Ronnie himself states that he was better than he was last year (in 98)

so does MuscleMag as well.

and if you say MD does, well,

 you have four mags that say he was sharper in 99 or at least as sharp as 98..

that is a lot of credible opinions, all supported by real visual evidence too.

what do you have to say about that?

lol

[CigaretteMan]

refer to the Ironman 99 contest coverage.

Lonnie Teper specifically mentions Ronnie was sharper - esp. the quads.

so does the Muscle and Fitness mag - in fact, Ronnie himself states that he was better than he was last year (in 98)

so does MuscleMag as well.

and if you say MD does, well,

 you have four mags that say he was sharper in 99 or at least as sharp as 98..

that is a lot of credible opinions, all supported by real visual evidence too.

what do you have to say about that?

lol

  You must have a different version of the these magazines, because Zulak commented on MuscleMag that Ronnie wasn't as sharp in 1999 as he was in 1998. And Jim Rockell, I.F.B.B head judge and senior judge at the Olympia, singled out Ronnie's 1998 version as his most conditioned - not to mention Weider saying that Ronnie was at his best in 1998. So we have the founder of the I.F.B.B and creator of the Mr.Olympia contest and the most senior of judges stating otherwise. Waht do you have to say about that?

[Hulkster]

  You must have a different version of the these magazines, because Zulak commented on MuscleMag that Ronnie wasn't as sharp in 1999 as he was in 1998. And Jim Rockell, I.F.B.B head judge and senior judge at the Olympia, singled out Ronnie's 1998 version as his most conditioned - not to mention Weider saying that Ronnie was at his best in 1998. So we have the founder of the I.F.B.B and creator of the Mr.Olympia contest and the most senior of judges stating otherwise. Waht do you have to say about that?

no I don't have different versions, go to the ironman coverage and read it again.

secondly, who cares what they think:

here is Ronnie Coleman himself on Oct. 24th 1999 commenting specifically on how he was bigger and better conditioned in 99 (at his 99 victory seminar the day after the 99 O)

you are fucked now LOL

Those hard sessions allowed me to pack on some extra muscle mass. I was almost 15 pounds heavier than last year, with a little bit better conditioning than last year

http://www.dennisbweis.com/Articles/Colman.html


note he also comments on how he "took it to another level" above dorian (and we can see that McGough agreed with him in his article,) and he makes a great comment on the poltical bullshit of dorian's reign in saying that he would likely have not 'been allowed' to beat him.

Ronnie, like all of us, knows the gifts dorian got over people that should have beaten him.

 

[England_1]

no I don't have different versions, go to the ironman coverage and read it again.

secondly, who cares what they think:

here is Ronnie Coleman himself on Oct. 24th 1999 commenting specifically on how he was bigger and better conditioned in 99 (at his 99 victory seminar the day after the 99 O)

you are fucked now LOL

I love it, I thought Ronnie's opinion didn't matter considering he has said many times recently that his best condition was 1998  According to you he must have been forgetful or just plain stupid 

[Hulkster]

I love it, I thought Ronnie's opinion didn't matter considering he has said many times recently that his best condition was 1998  According to you he must have been forgetful or just plain stupid 

an opinion based on a foggy recollection 10 years is forgetful.

yes, 10 years after the fact..

the day after, it was fresh in his mind and he was 100% right - as is validated by any videos or pics of the contest.

there is a huge difference between stating an assertion the day after a contest vs 10 years later retard.

[CigaretteMan]

no I don't have different versions, go to the ironman coverage and read it again.

secondly, who cares what they think:

here is Ronnie Coleman himself on Oct. 24th 1999 commenting specifically on how he was bigger and better conditioned in 99 (at his 99 victory seminar the day after the 99 O)

you are fucked now LOL

http://www.dennisbweis.com/Articles/Colman.html


note he also comments on how he "took it to another level" above dorian (and we can see that McGough agreed with him in his article,) and he makes a great comment on the poltical bullshit of dorian's reign in saying that he would likely have not 'been allowed' to beat him.

Ronnie, like all of us, knows the gifts dorian got over people that should have beaten him.

 

  Ugh...Coleman has already stated that his conditioning was better in 1998. McGough also stated it. Weider stated it. And how exactly is a statement that Ronnie made after the Olympia more valid than the one he made now? He probably changed his mind after seeing pictures of both contests and concluded that, indeed, his conditioning was better in 1998

[Hulkster]

  Ugh...Coleman has already stated that his conditioning was better in 1998. McGough also stated it. Weider stated it. And how exactly is a statement that Ronnie made after the Olympia more valid than the one he made now? He probably changed his mind after seeing pictures of both contests and concluded that, indeed, his conditioning was better in 1998

you guys never get it.

there are quotes all over the place - some say he was better conditioned in 98, some don't

Ronnie says he was better in 99, 10 years later he doesn't etc.

the quotes game (just as in ronnie vs dorian) does NOT work.

you have to go to visuals for the real definitive answer because quotes and opinions are everywhere.

all are as valid (and potentially invalid) as each other.

visuals are the tie breaker.

visuas confirm he was a bit sharper in 1999.

hope this helps

[tu_holmes]

Can't believe it really matters which year he was "sharper" in... He won both years.

[bizzy]

I'm going to make one point here and then get back on topic.

CM said, "  Well, I disagree here. Fullness is not a part of conditioning because it doesen't make one's muscles more defined or harder. Bodybuilders are at their fullest in the off-season, when thye are at their worst in terms of conditioning."

Many times you will hear bodybuilders say, "I came in flat...I should have been fuller, ect.

At least two things affect this and both are part of conditioning.
One would be drying out.
There's a fine line between getting the water out between the skin and muscle
and actually pulling water out of the muscle itself. When the water starts being pulled out
of the muscle it will lack as much fullness.
Second is the carbing up process. Another tricky thing where many bodybuilders
find themselves not filling out as they had planned.

This is one example of probably 50 or more you could find over the years.
Jay Cutler speaking on his pre-Olympia prep 2005.
"I figured I would deplete Sunday through Wednesday, load carbs on Thursday,
and back off on the carbs a bit on Friday if I had to.
I probably could have been a little fuller for the prejudging.
If you still disagree that fullness has nothing to do with conditioning
then I will agree to disagree with you and leave it at that.

I do agree Dorian was more conditioned at 257 than 269
but you can not compare those two examples of Dorian with Ronnie 98-99.
98-99 Ronnie were much closer condition wise than 257-269 Dorian.
Ok, Now back to the original topic...
 

[bizzy]

I'm going to make one point here and then get back on topic.

CM said, "  Well, I disagree here. Fullness is not a part of conditioning because it doesen't make one's muscles more defined or harder. Bodybuilders are at their fullest in the off-season, when thye are at their worst in terms of conditioning."

Many times you will hear bodybuilders say, "I came in flat...I should have been fuller, ect.

At least two things affect this and both are part of conditioning.
One would be drying out.
There's a fine line between getting the water out between the skin and muscle
and actually pulling water out of the muscle itself. When the water starts being pulled out
of the muscle it will lack as much fullness.
Second is the carbing up process. Another tricky thing where many bodybuilders
find themselves not filling out as they had planned.

This is one example of probably 50 or more you could find over the years.
Jay Cutler speaking on his pre-Olympia prep 2005.
"I figured I would deplete Sunday through Wednesday, load carbs on Thursday,
and back off on the carbs a bit on Friday if I had to.
I probably could have been a little fuller for the prejudging.
If you still disagree that fullness has nothing to do with conditioning
then I will agree to disagree with you and leave it at that.

I do agree Dorian was more conditioned at 257 than 269
but you can not compare those two examples of Dorian with Ronnie 98-99.
98-99 Ronnie were much closer condition wise than 257-269 Dorian.
Ok, Now back to the original topic...
 

[CigaretteMan]

CM said, "  Well, I disagree here. Fullness is not a part of conditioning because it doesen't make one's muscles more defined or harder. Bodybuilders are at their fullest in the off-season, when thye are at their worst in terms of conditioning."

  No, fullness is a part of muscularity and not conditioning. Ronnie was more muscular in 1999 because his muscles were fuller, but he wasn't more conditioned. Getting your muscles fuller do not make them more ripped and harder.

[bizzy]

ha ha ha ha

Peter McGough - Flex, August 2005

"Ronnie sporting that [01 ASC] look would, in my opinion, be unbeatable."

Shawn Perine - Ironage, December 2004

“As much as I love Haney and my IA champs, I think Ronnie circa '98 or at the 2001 Arnold is pretty much untouchable."

Lonnie Teper - unknown

"it's hard to imagine that anybody who's ever stepped on a bodybuilding stage could have beaten Coleman. No offense to the rest of the champs - you were/are all truly amazing physique athletes - but Coleman has really taken it to the next level, as all magnificent conquerors do."

Greg Merritt - Flex, July 2007 p. 212

"Coleman is only two years older than the new Mr. O (hypothetical article saying if Toney Freeman won), but time stops for no man, including the greatest bodybuilder who ever lived."

Flex Wheeler - MD, February 2004

"I'll go on record as saying Ronnie is truly the biggest, hardest, most shredded Mr. Olympia in history. No disrespect to anybody at all, but I'd to identify Ronnie Coleman as the greatest Mr. Olympia of all time."

Jean Pierre Fux - Personal Website

"The current Mr. Olympia (Ronnie Coleman). In top shape, probably the best physique that ever stepped on stage."

Paul Dillet - MD, February 2004

"Understand that if Ronnie walked away tomorrow, I do not think anyone can measure up to the standards he has set. Just like Sergio Oliva, an awesome bodybuilder way ahead of his time, and like Flex Wheeler, who had an absolutely perfect, beautiful physique. No one will match Serigo or Flex and now Ronnie."

Steve Blechman - MD, Febrary 2004

"Ronnie perseveres and proves continually that, at his best, he is unbeatable."

Mike Matarazzo – Flex, January 1999

“I think this creature from another planet, Ronnie Coleman, is going to be number one for a while. I think that, in the shape he was in, he would have beaten Dorian Yates. Ronnie has every single attribute it takes to be the greatest bodybuilder who ever lived.”

John Hansen, 2x Mr. Natural Universe and Mr. Natural Olympia - Personal Website

"It would be safe to say that [Ronnie Coleman] presented a physique that has never been seen by the bodybuilding world ever before. Competing at an incredibly massive 287 pounds, Ronnie destroyed the competition with a physique that could not possibly be equaled."

Dorian Yates – PBW Radio Interview

"The judges would probably choose Ronnie [over me]."

First we have Joe Weider and Jay Cutler pretty much agreeing that Ronnie is the best.
Here are some more to add to the list.

Quote, Joe Weider:

  "Many experts, including reigning Mr.Olympia, Jay Cutler, believe that at his best Ronnie has the greatest physique of all times. When looking at pictures of Ronnie from the 1998 Mr.Olympia, I find it hard to argue with that."

Eryk Bui:
Invincible Mr. Olympia Ronnie Coleman is the best of all time.

Victor Martinez:
He's the best ever...All past Olympians had something missing. But not Ronnie; he has everything.

Mike Matarrazo:
"Yeah, he's he's the best that's ever lived. I don't know what the future holds, but he's certainly the best I've ever seen in my lifetime.

Quincy Taylor: He's built up past the point of anything I've ever seen.

Melvin Anthony: Asked if Ronnie is the greatest bodybuilder ever..
Absolutely! He's in a class by himself.

Toney Freeman asked the same..
For Sure! He's at the top of the food chain.

Branch Warren: Yes, He's the best ever.

Capriese Murray:
Yeah, Definately. None of the past Mr. Olympias could possibly match his size and conditioning.

Craig Richardson:  Asked if Ronnie is the greatest bodybuilder ever..
Yes. He didn't have the greatest body 10 years ago, now he's the best in the world.

Stan McCrary: Yes, He's the best ever.

Chris Cormier: I'd say back in 98-99 he was the best ever.

Aaron Baker: Yes, He's the best ever. He has produced a package that has yet to be surpassed.

Don Long: I am going to have to say yes he is the best ever.

Ron Harris: I think Ronnie is the best Mr. O ever.

Greg Valentino: Ronnie Coleman is the greatest bodybuilder ever.

Joe McNeal: Yes, He's the best ever. Without a doubt! That shouldn't even be a question.

King Kamali: Yes, Ronnie is the best Mr. O of all time, period!

Charles Glass: As of right now, Ronnie is the best of all time.

Dorian Yates: I think it's a little hard for me to comment as I think I am the greatest ever! (Laughs)"

Interesting Note during this question:
There were a couple of others who said Arnold or hinted at Haney but only one said Yates,
and that was the man himself.

MD December 2005

[Hulkster]

  No, fullness is a part of muscularity and not conditioning. Ronnie was more muscular in 1999 because his muscles were fuller, but he wasn't more conditioned. Getting your muscles fuller do not make them more ripped and harder.

but in 99 he was more full AND harder:

why do you think it is not possible to be fuller AND harder?

after all, Ronnie himself said so the next day

[RocketSwitch625]

Victor Martinez:
He's the best ever...All past Olympians had something missing. But not Ronnie; he has everything.



 

[Hulkster]

Victor Martinez:
He's the best ever...All past Olympians had something missing. But not Ronnie; he has everything.



 

that isn't from 99.

this sure is: defined and detailed baby: just like the rest of him

judges never even noticed - they were good enough because of the detail.