Author Topic: Muliple sets superior to one set (hit)  (Read 3743 times)

Rmj11

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Muliple sets superior to one set (hit)
« on: October 06, 2024, 11:38:18 PM »
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Donny

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Re: Muliple sets superior to one set (hit)
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2024, 01:46:14 AM »
I think someone wrote about this a while back on here but what if you trained a muscle group Daily with 1 set to failure, would this constitute volume by the end of the week & would enough stimulation be present for growth?

letīs say i did an abbreviated routine of ..

Parallel bar dips  1 set to failure

Under grip supinated chins  1 set to failure

Barbell squats. 1 set to failure

If i did just 1 set to absolute failure at least 5 days ( maybe 7) a week would growth be evident after say 6 months?

Rmj11

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Re: Muliple sets superior to one set (hit)
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2024, 03:30:39 AM »
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Rmj11

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Re: Muliple sets superior to one set (hit)
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2024, 03:34:01 AM »
I think someone wrote about this a while back on here but what if you trained a muscle group Daily with 1 set to failure, would this constitute volume by the end of the week & would enough stimulation be present for growth?

letīs say i did an abbreviated routine of ..

Parallel bar dips  1 set to failure

Under grip supinated chins  1 set to failure

Barbell squats. 1 set to failure

If i did just 1 set to absolute failure at least 5 days ( maybe 7) a week would growth be evident after say 6 months?

On paper maybe but in reality no. If you train with 1 set to failure (doesn't have to be to failure btw) per exercise 5 to 7 days you're still only doing 5 to 7 sets a muscle part at the end of the week. It still not enough to maximise gains for muscle growth.

Donny

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Re: Muliple sets superior to one set (hit)
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2024, 05:07:49 AM »
On paper maybe but in reality no. If you train with 1 set to failure (doesn't have to be to failure btw) per exercise 5 to 7 days you're still only doing 5 to 7 sets a muscle part at the end of the week. It still not enough to maximise gains for muscle growth.

aside from the weekly number of sets ..would the daily stimulation trigger growth ? I mean the signal to the muscles is being sent more often

what iīm getting at is the daily stimulation

Rmj11

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Re: Muliple sets superior to one set (hit)
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2024, 05:42:04 AM »
aside from the weekly number of sets ..would the daily stimulation trigger growth ? I mean the signal to the muscles is being sent more often

what iīm getting at is the daily stimulation

It would help to maintain maybe but to trigger further growth, no.

Donny

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Re: Muliple sets superior to one set (hit)
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2024, 06:21:27 AM »
It would help to maintain maybe but to trigger further growth, no.
It would be an interesting experiment

oldtimer1

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Re: Muliple sets superior to one set (hit)
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2024, 10:07:39 AM »
I just finished six sets of half mile repeats does that count? I used a quarter mile warm up and quarter mile cool down.  Then I hit the heavy bag for a couple of three minute rounds.

Getting back to multiple sets Robert Kennedy said this.  He might be right on target.   He said in effect that one set to failure gets you 85% of a stressor for adaptation.  Two sets might bring you to 90%. Three sets might bring you to 92%. In other words more sets is better but there is diminishing returns.

It's just apples to oranges. A 400 meter runner would never put down a 10K runner's training as easy because it isn't as intense. A 10K runner will never say a 400 meter runner doing 200 meter repeats is a walk in the park.  It's too different types of training.

No one does more full ass to the ground squats than Olympic lifters. They use low reps and plenty of sets with heavy weight.  While they have thick muscular thighs they don't compare to bodybuilders. Then again a bodybuilders by definition are pumped up with drugs. True, the best way to build muscle for lack of a better term might be to train for muscular endurance as in multiple sets and high reps.

 Danny Padilla touched on this.  To paraphrase him he said he tried HIT and used seriously heavy weights. He said his workouts became scary. Scary was the word he used. Maybe he meant dread.  Hard to go into a gym everyday knowing you're going to bang your head into the wall so to speak. He said he got his best results doing 5 sets of 12 reps using the same weight for an exercise.

IroNat

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Re: Muliple sets superior to one set (hit)
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2024, 04:27:58 PM »
The truth is you will not look like a drug using bodybuilder without taking drugs, no matter how you train.

However, if you take the drugs and train just about any way, you will look very muscular.

oldtimer1

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Re: Muliple sets superior to one set (hit)
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2024, 05:24:28 PM »
The truth is you will not look like a drug using bodybuilder without taking drugs, no matter how you train.

However, if you take the drugs and train just about any way, you will look very muscular.


You are on fire with that response.  That's the truth.  I've always said if guys that look really good on drugs are such hard scientific trainers how come they look like hell off the drugs?  Suddenly they aren't hard trainers anymore and forgot how to train scientifically?

pkaz

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Re: Muliple sets superior to one set (hit)
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2024, 10:17:46 PM »
I just finished six sets of half mile repeats does that count? I used a quarter mile warm up and quarter mile cool down.  Then I hit the heavy bag for a couple of three minute rounds.

Getting back to multiple sets Robert Kennedy said this.  He might be right on target.   He said in effect that one set to failure gets you 85% of a stressor for adaptation.  Two sets might bring you to 90%. Three sets might bring you to 92%. In other words more sets is better but there is diminishing returns.

It's just apples to oranges. A 400 meter runner would never put down a 10K runner's training as easy because it isn't as intense. A 10K runner will never say a 400 meter runner doing 200 meter repeats is a walk in the park.  It's too different types of training.

No one does more full ass to the ground squats than Olympic lifters. They use low reps and plenty of sets with heavy weight.  While they have thick muscular thighs they don't compare to bodybuilders. Then again a bodybuilders by definition are pumped up with drugs. True, the best way to build muscle for lack of a better term might be to train for muscular endurance as in multiple sets and high reps.

 Danny Padilla touched on this.  To paraphrase him he said he tried HIT and used seriously heavy weights. He said his workouts became scary. Scary was the word he used. Maybe he meant dread.  Hard to go into a gym everyday knowing you're going to bang your head into the wall so to speak. He said he got his best results doing 5 sets of 12 reps using the same weight for an exercise.

And he did. Danny had great genetics but he did train same weight 12 reps for 4 to 5 sets. Knew him in Worlds. Same thing with Steve Davis. He did 6 sets same reps for 10. And then trained with Berytl  Fox. Extremely heavy weights working up in weight each set. And trained with Roger Callard. He loved supper setting two chest exercises together. I guess the message is. Everything works. And btw. I knew Ray Mentzer fairly well. And HIT did not get him big..

oldtimer1

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Re: Muliple sets superior to one set (hit)
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2024, 06:51:09 AM »
And he did. Danny had great genetics but he did train same weight 12 reps for 4 to 5 sets. Knew him in Worlds. Same thing with Steve Davis. He did 6 sets same reps for 10. And then trained with Berytl  Fox. Extremely heavy weights working up in weight each set. And trained with Roger Callard. He loved supper setting two chest exercises together. I guess the message is. Everything works. And btw. I knew Ray Mentzer fairly well. And HIT did not get him big..

Great post!

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Muliple sets superior to one set (hit)
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2024, 11:30:20 AM »
It would be an interesting experiment
I've already experimented with it. Works great for maintenance which is all that's needed at this stage of the game. Not making anymore gains after 40 years of training.

falco

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Re: Muliple sets superior to one set (hit)
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2024, 03:26:31 AM »
aside from the weekly number of sets ..would the daily stimulation trigger growth ? I mean the signal to the muscles is being sent more often

what iīm getting at is the daily stimulation

Maybe be. But then you would be gravitating towards volume.

Donny

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Re: Muliple sets superior to one set (hit)
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2024, 04:21:19 AM »
Maybe be. But then you would be gravitating towards volume.

yes i suppose so, i take it you mean volume as in the number of working out days ?
1-2 sets max a day would be max 14 sets over a week, 5 days 10 sets.
still low volume for a muscle group or if using just basic exercises multiple muscle groups needing only 1 exercise to stimulate multiple growth.

of course i am talking about Abbreviated training here..

Parallel bar dips
Chin ups
Squats

as an example  :)

falco

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Re: Muliple sets superior to one set (hit)
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2024, 04:27:47 AM »
yes i suppose so, i take it you mean volume as in the number of working out days ?
1-2 sets max a day would be max 14 sets over a week, 5 days 10 sets.
still low volume for a muscle group or if using just basic exercises multiple muscle groups needing only 1 exercise to stimulate multiple growth.

I mean that Mentzer advocated the absolute least working volume possible, using the intensity approach to produce results. Incorporating more work than the bare minimum necessary (by his beliefs) would be counterproductive in his eyes. Obviously it was his views, we have ours.

Donny

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Re: Muliple sets superior to one set (hit)
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2024, 04:33:12 AM »
I mean that Mentzer advocated the absolute least working volume possible, using the intensity approach to produce results. Incorporating more work than the bare minimum necessary (by his beliefs) would be counterproductive in his eyes. Obviously it was his views, we have ours.

to Quote Vince Gironda,  " One Manīs Meat is another Manīs Poison "

Donny

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Re: Muliple sets superior to one set (hit)
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2024, 07:32:03 AM »
 :)

Humble Narcissist

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Re: Muliple sets superior to one set (hit)
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2024, 12:17:07 AM »
^^^ Looking small there.