The only way how to build real cannonball shoulders !!

[BigRo]

Sorry to butt in, but I finally got results from an MRI regarding my upper back pain (complained about it at the docs like 18 months ago! Socialized medicine). "No disc herniation but possible issue with bone marrow, sent referral to orthopedist" (just text message, didn't speak to doc). It still hurts the same as when the pain first appeared. What does this mean with the bone marrow?

Kai Greene did dips for traps. Any reason to do dips for traps?

Don't believe anything that gay says.

[joswift]

Most low back "spasms" aren't spasms at all.

Ridiculous comment regardless.  Is this where you go on about how disc issues don't cause pain in the back?  Its like a patient I have that went to a provider who said the problem with her low back was due to her flat feet...and she should get orthotics.  Never mind the 9mm inferiorly EXTRUDED disc and associated severe foraminal stenosis.   Nawwww  just have her pay $300 for foot bullshit and let that myelopathy continue

I have two protruding discs (L4 and L5) and one somewhere in my thorasic region.

I used to get back spasms all the time but since I have had blading done to release all the tension in my hams and quads I hardly have any at all, in fact I dont want to jinx myself saying  too much.

Not sure how familiar you are with kinetic therapy but I have been to chiropractors for over 35 years with my low back...all they seem to do is manipulate your skeleton by cracking joints.

Reality is my problem wasnt my discs it was the fascial adhesion and scar tissue.

[falco]

Sorry to butt in, but I finally got results from an MRI regarding my upper back pain (complained about it at the docs like 18 months ago! Socialized medicine). "No disc herniation but possible issue with bone marrow, sent referral to orthopedist" (just text message, didn't speak to doc). It still hurts the same as when the pain first appeared. What does this mean with the bone marrow?

Kai Greene did dips for traps. Any reason to do dips for traps?

Had pain in the rhomboid area, that was caused by a herniated disk in the neck. Between C7 and T1. After fix, it went away.

[Irongrip400]

Disc issues in thoracic region are somewhat uncommon.  Facet arthrosis and endplate osteophytes are very common.

Is your doc talking about a hemangioma?  Otherwise certain infections can cause the reactive bone marrow signal on MRI

Are you a Chiro or are you a orthopedic doctor?

[Krankenstein]

I have two protruding discs (L4 and L5) and one somewhere in my thorasic region.

I used to get back spasms all the time but since I have had blading done to release all the tension in my hams and quads I hardly have any at all, in fact I dont want to jinx myself saying  too much.

Not sure how familiar you are with kinetic therapy but I have been to chiropractors for over 35 years with my low back...all they seem to do is manipulate your skeleton by cracking joints.

Reality is my problem wasnt my discs it was the fascial adhesion and scar tissue.

While the blading has merit, there is irrefutable evidence of cytokines produces with disc damage.  Those same cytokines are DIRECTLY linked to stimulation of pain receptors (type c delta I believe).  This in turn can contribute to the muscle guarding (sometimes thought to be spasms) as well as the true spasm.  Those same cytokines have been linked to adhesions in fibrous tissue which could cause things like reduction in joint ROM, "shortening" of a muscle to restriction in their length, and even muscular endurance.

So, is it the facia causing the problem?  No, its the end product.  Similarly to someone with loss of joint space in the knee.  Blading the VMO and semitendinosus and semimembranosus will help the knee feel better but in no way in hell is it going to do anything to help that joint. 

If all a chiro wants to do is manipulate....they aren't seeing the whole picture.  I am not familiar with kinetic therapy but after looking at it, it looks like another take on some common sense physical therapy that someone wants to give a fancy term.   Dress up a pig and call it what you want....its still a pig. 

[Krankenstein]

Had pain in the rhomboid area, that was caused by a herniated disk in the neck. Between C7 and T1. After fix, it went away.

Surprising at the level seeing that dorsal scapular nerve (from C5) innervates rhomboids.  At that level could have been splenius cervicis / thoracis muscular issue from the lower cervical

[Krankenstein]

Are you a Chiro or are you a orthopedic doctor?

not your typical chiro.  There are times I hate my my profession for some of the bullshit that comes out of it.

[joswift]

While the blading has merit, there is irrefutable evidence of cytokines produces with disc damage.  Those same cytokines are DIRECTLY linked to stimulation of pain receptors (type c delta I believe).  This in turn can contribute to the muscle guarding (sometimes thought to be spasms) as well as the true spasm.  Those same cytokines have been linked to adhesions in fibrous tissue which could cause things like reduction in joint ROM, "shortening" of a muscle to restriction in their length, and even muscular endurance.

So, is it the facia causing the problem?  No, its the end product.  Similarly to someone with loss of joint space in the knee.  Blading the VMO and semitendinosus and semimembranosus will help the knee feel better but in no way in hell is it going to do anything to help that joint. 

If all a chiro wants to do is manipulate....they aren't seeing the whole picture.  I am not familiar with kinetic therapy but after looking at it, it looks like another take on some common sense physical therapy that someone wants to give a fancy term.   Dress up a pig and call it what you want....its still a pig.

my fascial issues started with a limited range of motion and lack of movement of my low back.

So yes, I hurt my discs, I have had MRI scans several times ofer the years and my disc damage is exactly the same, it has never gone any worse from the original injury

I have been plagued with low back spasms ever since that, way back in 1988.

When I went to see the kenetic therapist I told him about my low back and he looked at me and said "its not that thats causing your problem" he could see from my posture that it was my lower body.

I have only had one treatment in my low back as he said there isnt any adhesion or scar tissue in the fascia there.
My quads and hams were a tangle of knots and scar tissue, I have even had treatments on my traps and shoulder.

So without the original low back injury would I have had any issues with my fascia, maybe maybe not.
I think more likely maybe...

[IroNat]

Sorry to butt in, but I finally got results from an MRI regarding my upper back pain (complained about it at the docs like 18 months ago! Socialized medicine). "No disc herniation but possible issue with bone marrow, sent referral to orthopedist" (just text message, didn't speak to doc). It still hurts the same as when the pain first appeared. What does this mean with the bone marrow?

Kai Greene did dips for traps. Any reason to do dips for traps?

Careful, you are in danger of being sucked into the medical industrial complex.

[Krankenstein]

my fascial issues started with a limited range of motion and lack of movement of my low back.
re-read my statement above....which has been researched extensively

So yes, I hurt my discs, I have had MRI scans several times ofer the years and my disc damage is exactly the same, it has never gone any worse from the original injury
While discs can heal, it doesn't mean they will if we keep doing things that damaged them in the first place.  One step forward, one step back.  Degeneration (bone, disc, tendon, etc) is a progressive thing.  I do find it hard to believe the statement of "exactly the same".  Most reporting is done subjectively : mild, moderate, extensive, etc.  So, while some may say there is mild to moderate facet arthrosis, others may say that its mild.

I have been plagued with low back spasms ever since that, way back in 1988.

When I went to see the kenetic therapist I told him about my low back and he looked at me and said "its not that thats causing your problem" he could see from my posture that it was my lower body.
postural changes = muscle which affect how we move and change static spine and joint appearance.  Again re-read what I just put up there.

I have only had one treatment in my low back as he said there isnt any adhesion or scar tissue in the fascia there.
because this 'practitioner' can see into your facia with his magical kinetic therapy glasses?  I had a patient come in and tell me his massage therapist could tell he had a herniated disc because the therapist could fell it.  No fucking way, no how.  Facia is subcutaneous, but also intramuscular.  Tell me how they can tell that by just LOOKING at you.  Let me guess, with the blading you are also releasing "toxins" in the skin when you see the petechial changes 

My quads and hams were a tangle of knots and scar tissue, I have even had treatments on my traps and shoulder.
oh, so your low back didn't have the scar tissue but just quads and hams.   Gotcha!

So without the original low back injury would I have had any issues with my fascia, maybe maybe not.
I think more likely maybe...

More than likely, yes.  Crosslinking after injury causes restriction.  Previous mentioned cytokine reaction with pain fibers.  If you were given any type of cortico-steroid, there's another culprit.  Also, with regard to low back injury...if you ever did damage to hamstrings prior to that, there is a potential causative factor with the low back injury.   Research has shown knee injuries are linked to problems with the TFL and glute max.

Its all well and good you are getting relief but when people talk out of their ass like that....it is no different than when someone does that applied kinesiology to determine if a supplement is "good" for them

[joswift]

More than likely, yes.  Crosslinking after injury causes restriction.  Previous mentioned cytokine reaction with pain fibers.  If you were given any type of cortico-steroid, there's another culprit.  Also, with regard to low back injury...if you ever did damage to hamstrings prior to that, there is a potential causative factor with the low back injury.   Research has shown knee injuries are linked to problems with the TFL and glute max.

Its all well and good you are getting relief but when people talk out of their ass like that....it is no different than when someone does that applied kinesiology to determine if a supplement is "good" for them

"exactly the same" means it hasnt gone any worse.

Correct my fascia in my low back didnt have any knots or adhesion

Someone who is trained in kinetic therapy can feel the adhesions with the tools, Oh and the patient can feel it as well as they take quite a bit of breaking down, something that a massage therapist or chiropractor simply couldnt do with their hands alone.

you dont have to see inside someone to know if they have postural issues.



nope no toxins, just initial slight bruising that disappears after a few hours

[20inch calves]

Kind of an upright row

[wes]

I`m a big Doug Brignole fan ever since the 80`s......chatted with him at the 2011 Masters Nationals.....nice guy.

RIP 

[Krankenstein]

"exactly the same" means it hasnt gone any worse.
according to a static imaging study

Correct my fascia in my low back didnt have any knots or adhesion
nothing SUPERFFICIAL.  NO ONE...and I repeat NO ONE can tell you by looking at you or palpating you if there are adhesions INTRA MUSCULARILY

Someone who is trained in kinetic therapy can feel the adhesions with the tools, Oh and the patient can feel it as well as they take quite a bit of breaking down, something that a massage therapist or chiropractor simply couldnt do with their hands alone.
geezus....with the tools.  Why do you think there are 100's of techniques with the tool.   Graston, FAKTOR, etc.  Kinetic therapy isn't something any different with the tool.  Prove me wrong!  They don't do anything different with the tool than any number of people do.  I have my graston cert and rock tape blading cert.  You know difference?   About $1000 in seminar cost

you dont have to see inside someone to know if they have postural issues.



The problem comes with WHY those postural issues are happening.  Its not just "fascial imbalance".  Fuck anyone who tells you that.  You aren't blading someone with a 30deg scoliotic curve and correcting them. 

nope no toxins, just initial slight bruising that disappears after a few hours

Even if we aren't talking discogenic pain, ANYONE worth their salt would have to take into account the arthrosis of the joint and structural compensations.  Again, kinetic therapy.....blading with some knowledge of physical therapy.  Am I right?

[joswift]

Even if we aren't talking discogenic pain, ANYONE worth their salt would have to take into account the arthrosis of the joint and structural compensations.  Again, kinetic therapy.....blading with some knowledge of physical therapy.  Am I right?

I suppose the treatment I had is just a placebo then.

Kenetic therapy and knowledge of physical therapy, guy I went to has 5 years study in physical therapy.

You dont just get a few blades and become an expert.

I like you but sometimes you think its only you that knows anything about treating sports or muscular skeletal injuries.

Maybe some people are qualified just as much as you if not more.

then again no one ever sems to be able to tell you anything you dont know or is wrong.

Since I had the treatments I have been pretty much injury and spasm free.

Maybe I should ditch it and start listening to you?

[MCWAY]

Serge had one of the best chests ever  notice the pattern here ?

Wide grip, especially since those old-school uprights were really narrow. You don't need to bother with dumbbells, if you press with the barbell/Smith machine with a wide grip.

[Krankenstein]

I suppose the treatment I had is just a placebo then.
never did I say it was placebo.  To say it was just "tight quad, hamstrings, and glutes" is short sighted

Kenetic therapy and knowledge of physical therapy, guy I went to has 5 years study in physical therapy.
knowledge of PT?  congrats on his 5 yrs.  is he a licensed PT?  Not sure how it works in the UK but in the US you are licensed and that is a whole lot different than a cert

You dont just get a few blades and become an expert.
Once again, never said someone would.  I personally have been using them for 8+ years.  When I see the FB people with fucking bruising lastging days on end I shake my head.  When I see IG people thinking they are experts after watching some videos included in their kit...I shake my head.  Palpation and adjusting takes years to perfect and yet their are people who think they can do it on their buddies because they got that cavitation sound.  Big fucking deal!.  When KT tape was hitting the scene I did the original kenso case (I think thats the guy) classes.  Then everyone and their brother was doing taping...and now you see YT videos from fucking trainers doing it.  People with so much tape on them that its fucking ridiculous

I like you but sometimes you think its only you that knows anything about treating sports or muscular skeletal injuries.
No, I am not the only one who knwos shit.  When people talk out of their ass...thats when I take issue.  When basic common anatomy and phsyology plus researched topics that show facts are ignored thats when I don't have any issue with calling things out.  From what I have found the KT people takie a damn weekend course.  I could be looking atthe wrong shit but I have to take 60hrs of CEU every three years for one state, 16 ceu for another, and 12 for another.  I have to keep up on things so that I am not missing out on giving patients what they need.  When someone is so myopic that they disregard things (i.e. your disc has fuck all to do with your problem....isn't that what you said?) then they are discrediting common sense again

Maybe some people are qualified just as much as you if not more.
yeah, many are more qualified than me.  But I look to those people to learn from and educate myself.  I sit in on ortho surgies, shadow pain management docs, ect so I know where my lane ends and someone else's begins.

then again no one ever sems to be able to tell you anything you dont know or is wrong.
I have asked you to show me where I am wrong, misguided, etc and you have yet to do so.  You bring up examples that are complete dog shit (pun intended) because they might suit your one argument.  Thats all. 

Since I had the treatments I have been pretty much injury and spasm free.
And I said thats great that you are feeling better.  Go back and re-read it.  Re-iterating this point....to disregard some of the other stuff and blame it on something is not appropriate

Maybe I should ditch it and start listening to you?
Naw, you seem like the type of patient I refer to someone else because I wouldn't want the continual debate.  I am at a point in my practicing career where I don't have to take on someone who just want to argue.  I am open minded, but don't like being undermined.  The advice and help I give here is based on 25 years of practice.  Both on patient and shit I have gone through.  Also, like I said, talking to people who I feel are more experts in the field than I am.

You wanna defend your KT guy...no problem.  Let me state it again Jeff....I am glad you feel relief.  Keep at it.  If it stops, seek out something else.   Does that help it sink in a bit more?

[Van_Bilderass]

Disc issues in thoracic region are somewhat uncommon.  Facet arthrosis and endplate osteophytes are very common.

Is your doc talking about a hemangioma?  Otherwise certain infections can cause the reactive bone marrow signal on MRI

I only got that short message for now so I'm clueless, will talk to him later. My doc is a general practitioner and he is only reading the MRI doc's notes I assume so I don't know what he himself knows about these issues. I'm not sure about the relation of infections with this issue but I have in fact an ongoing infection and/or inflammation in my body which is being investigated. Thanks. My experience with healthcare really sucks lately,  I have numerous current issues and everything sucks, ridiculous waiting times, really hard to get ahold of my docs and when I do they don't have time to explain anything and so on. Just one anecdote. When I was following up on my bicep surgery and was scheduled to see the doc he came in and lifted my band aid an inch and without looking under it he just said, rehab! and was out the door. A 15 second doctor's visit

[Humble Narcissist]

not your typical chiro.  There are times I hate my my profession for some of the bullshit that comes out of it.

Like energy medicine?

[Donny]

not your typical chiro.  There are times I hate my my profession for some of the bullshit that comes out of it.

So what exactly is your profession?

[joswift]

So what exactly is your profession?

I sense "jack of all trades"

[Donny]

I`m a big Doug Brignole fan ever since the 80`s......chatted with him at the 2011 Masters Nationals.....nice guy.

RIP 

He seemed a nice guy but like all so called Guru's that come along very negative about anything he didn't "invent "
Remember he was making a living out of his training
Just like others did ..

[Donny]

I sense "jack of all trades"

We're all experts on here 
Maybe he's a physiotherapist

[Donny]

If he's in Germany ( going by his name ) he could also be a Masseur und medizinischer Bademeister
I actually thought about doing this years ago but physiotherapists have taken over some of their job.
They work more or less in rehabilitation centres using massage & water therapy

i=EqKZOxuS5RG_89XA

[joswift]

We're all experts on here 
Maybe he's a physiotherapist

he comes across all Hankins when he starts with his "I know it all, you are wrong" nonsense.