Author Topic: Do muscle fibers multiply with exercise?  (Read 873 times)

IroNat

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Do muscle fibers multiply with exercise?
« on: August 06, 2025, 08:07:58 AM »
Agrees with joswift.

Per AI:

Muscle fibers do not multiply with exercise. Instead, exercise leads to an increase in the size of existing muscle fibers, a process known as hypertrophy.

Types of Muscle Fibers

Type I fibers: Slow-twitch, endurance-oriented, and resistant to fatigue.
Type II fibers: Fast-twitch, suited for short bursts of strength and power.

Hypertrophy Process

Resistance training stimulates muscle fibers, causing micro-tears.
The body repairs these tears, leading to increased fiber size and strength.

Factors Influencing Muscle Growth

Nutrition: Adequate protein intake supports muscle repair and growth.
Training intensity: Progressive overload is essential for continued muscle adaptation.

Limitations

While muscle fibers can grow in size, the total number of muscle fibers remains relatively constant after early development. Some research suggests that satellite cells may contribute to muscle repair and growth, but this does not equate to an increase in fiber quantity.   

GymnJuice

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Re: Do muscle fibers multiply with exercis?
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2025, 08:12:47 AM »
From Grok:

Quote
A bicep supinator machine is a piece of gym equipment specifically designed to target the biceps brachii and the supinator muscle in the forearm, focusing on both elbow flexion and forearm supination (rotating the palm upward). Unlike standard bicep curl machines, which primarily emphasize elbow flexion, a bicep supinator machine incorporates a mechanism to engage the supination function of the biceps and the supinator muscle, enhancing forearm rotation and grip strength.
Key Features and Function:

Dual Action: The machine allows for simultaneous elbow flexion (curling motion) and forearm supination. This is often achieved through handles that rotate or a mechanism that encourages wrist rotation during the exercise.
Targeted Muscles:

Biceps Brachii: Primarily responsible for elbow flexion and forearm supination, especially when the elbow is flexed at around 90 degrees. The biceps is more engaged during supination than in neutral or pronated grip exercises.
Supinator Muscle: Located in the forearm, this muscle is the primary supinator when the elbow is extended, working synergistically with the biceps for powerful supination movements.
Secondary muscles like the brachialis and brachioradialis may also be activated, depending on the grip and motion.


Design: Typically, the machine has a seat, armrests or pads to stabilize the upper arms, and rotating handles or grips that allow the user to supinate the forearm while curling. Some machines may have adjustable resistance to target both motions effectively.
Benefits:

Enhances bicep development by maximizing contraction through supination, as rotating the palm upward increases biceps activation.
Improves forearm strength and grip, beneficial for functional movements like turning a screwdriver or opening a jar.
Reduces wrist strain compared to free weights, as the machine guides the motion.


Examples: While specific "bicep supinator machines" may not be as common as standard curl machines, equipment like the TechnoGym Arm Curl or certain cable machines with rotating handles can mimic this dual action. Some gyms may also have specialized machines or attachments designed for this purpose.

How It Differs from Other Machines:

Standard Bicep Curl Machine: Focuses solely on elbow flexion with a fixed grip, often neglecting supination.
Preacher Curl Machine: Isolates the biceps but typically uses a fixed supinated or neutral grip without dynamic forearm rotation.
Cable Machines with Rotating Handles: These can simulate a bicep supinator machine by allowing wrist rotation during curls, though they are less structured than a dedicated machine.

Usage Tips:

Grip: Use a supinated (underhand) grip to maximize biceps and supinator engagement. Start with palms facing up and rotate slightly outward at the top of the curl for peak contraction.
Elbow Position: Keep elbows fixed and close to the body, ideally at a 90-degree angle for optimal supination strength.
Controlled Motion: Perform the curl and supination slowly to avoid momentum and ensure muscle activation.
Resistance: Adjust the weight to allow for full range of motion, including the supination twist, without compromising form.

Availability:
While not every gym has a dedicated bicep supinator machine, you can replicate the motion using:

Dumbbells: Perform dumbbell curls with active supination (rotating wrists outward at the top).
Cable Machines: Use a cable setup with a single handle to allow wrist rotation.
Specialized Equipment: Some high-end gyms may have machines labeled as "bicep supinator" or similar, often under brands like TechnoGym, Life Fitness, or Hammer Strength.

If you're looking for a specific model or brand, could you clarify or provide more details about the gym or context? Alternatively, I can search for specific machines or exercises that fit this description if needed.

Quote
The inventor of the bicep supinator machine is not explicitly named in available records, as no single individual is universally credited with its creation. However, based on available information, a relevant patent (US5413546A) describes a "bicep exercise device" that combines elbow flexion and forearm supination, which aligns with the function of a bicep supinator machine. This patent was filed by Robert W. Basile in 1991 and granted in 1995, suggesting Basile as a potential inventor of a machine with these characteristics. The device includes arm assemblies with levers that pivot to allow both curling and twisting motions, targeting the biceps and supinator muscles.

Additionally, Arthur Jones, the founder of Nautilus, Inc., is a prominent figure in exercise machine innovation, known for introducing variable resistance through cams in the 1970s, which revolutionized strength training equipment, including machines targeting the biceps. While Jones is not directly linked to a specific "bicep supinator machine," his work on Nautilus machines, which often isolate specific muscle groups like the biceps, laid the groundwork for modern machines that could incorporate supination.

No definitive evidence points to a single inventor, as the bicep supinator machine may have evolved through contributions from multiple designers and manufacturers, such as those from Nautilus, TechnoGym, or Atlantis Strength, which produce equipment targeting biceps and forearm supination. If you're referring to a specific model or brand, please provide more details, and I can dig deeper!

 :o :o :o

joswift

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Re: Do muscle fibers multiply with exercise?
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2025, 08:13:16 AM »
thanks AI

Makes eating hundreds of grams of protien pretty pointless once you understand that

IroNat

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Re: Do muscle fibers multiply with exercise?
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2025, 08:17:33 AM »
thanks AI

Makes eating hundreds of grams of protien pretty pointless once you understand that

 ;) Per AI...

1. Protein Requirement for Muscle Hypertrophy
To promote muscle hypertrophy, 1.6 to 2.2 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight is generally recommended. This range supports optimal muscle growth and recovery.

2. Timing and Distribution

Distributing protein intake evenly throughout the day can enhance muscle protein synthesis.
Aim for 20-40 grams of protein per meal, especially post-workout.
3. Sources of Protein

High-quality protein sources include lean meats, dairy, eggs, legumes, and plant-based proteins.
Combining different protein sources can provide a complete amino acid profile.
4. Individual Variability

Factors such as age, training intensity, and overall diet can influence protein needs.
It's advisable to adjust protein intake based on personal goals and responses to training.

joswift

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Re: Do muscle fibers multiply with exercise?
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2025, 08:23:16 AM »
As long as protein eaten is adequate for repair and growth of existing muscle fibers.

 ;)

recommended protein is about 75gms a day to maintain healthy tissue

I know lets eat 500 a day, just to cover all bases

Coach is Back!

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Re: Do muscle fibers multiply with exercise?
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2025, 08:23:36 AM »
Agrees with joswift.

Per AI:

Muscle fibers do not multiply with exercise. Instead, exercise leads to an increase in the size of existing muscle fibers, a process known as hypertrophy.

Types of Muscle Fibers

Type I fibers: Slow-twitch, endurance-oriented, and resistant to fatigue.
Type II fibers: Fast-twitch, suited for short bursts of strength and power.

Hypertrophy Process

Resistance training stimulates muscle fibers, causing micro-tears.
The body repairs these tears, leading to increased fiber size and strength.

Factors Influencing Muscle Growth

Nutrition: Adequate protein intake supports muscle repair and growth.
Training intensity: Progressive overload is essential for continued muscle adaptation.

Limitations

While muscle fibers can grow in size, the total number of muscle fibers remains relatively constant after early development. Some research suggests that satellite cells may contribute to muscle repair and growth, but this does not equate to an increase in fiber quantity.   


Hyperplasia

IroNat

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Re: Do muscle fibers multiply with exercise?
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2025, 08:24:14 AM »
recommended protein is about 75gms a day to maintain healthy tissue

I know lets eat 500 a day, just to cover all bases

See above.  Edited.

Donny

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Re: Do muscle fibers multiply with exercise?
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2025, 08:24:27 AM »
thanks AI

Makes eating hundreds of grams of protien pretty pointless once you understand that
How´s the 20 rep chins getting on?

joswift

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Re: Do muscle fibers multiply with exercise?
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2025, 08:25:13 AM »
Hyperplasia doesnt happen in humans

find some evidence it does..

IroNat

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Re: Do muscle fibers multiply with exercise?
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2025, 08:28:42 AM »
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperplasia

One of the most potent and noteworthy effects insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1) has on the human body is its ability to cause hyperplasia, which is an actual splitting of cells.[11] By contrast, hypertrophy is what occurs, for example, to skeletal muscle cells during weight resistance training and is simply an increase in the size of the cells.[12] With IGF-1 use, one is able to cause hyperplasia which actually increases the number of muscle cells present in the tissue.[13] Weight training enables these new cells to mature in size and strength. It is theorized that hyperplasia may also be induced through specific power output training for athletic performance, thus increasing the number of muscle fibers instead of increasing the size of a single fiber.

Rambone

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Re: Do muscle fibers multiply with exercise?
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2025, 08:46:08 AM »
Has anybody asked Groink? (Via prison letter)

GymnJuice

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Re: Do muscle fibers multiply with exercise?
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2025, 08:49:58 AM »
Has anybody asked Groink? (Via prison letter)

Who wins in a prison brawl between Groink, ESFitness, and MattC?

joswift

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Re: Do muscle fibers multiply with exercise?
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2025, 08:59:18 AM »
How´s the 20 rep chins getting on?

stuck on 15, havent been able to do them for a few weeks due to elbow tendon strain

working around it doing other bits of stuff

Can do half lever leg raises 6 sets 5 reps
Can hold a half lever for 4 seconds

joswift

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Re: Do muscle fibers multiply with exercise?
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2025, 09:04:05 AM »
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperplasia

One of the most potent and noteworthy effects insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1) has on the human body is its ability to cause hyperplasia, which is an actual splitting of cells.[11] By contrast, hypertrophy is what occurs, for example, to skeletal muscle cells during weight resistance training and is simply an increase in the size of the cells.[12] With IGF-1 use, one is able to cause hyperplasia which actually increases the number of muscle cells present in the tissue.[13] Weight training enables these new cells to mature in size and strength. It is theorized that hyperplasia may also be induced through specific power output training for athletic performance, thus increasing the number of muscle fibers instead of increasing the size of a single fiber.

they are talking about naturally produced IGF1 produced in your liver, not artifical IGF1

Donny

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Re: Do muscle fibers multiply with exercise?
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2025, 09:05:50 AM »
stuck on 15, havent been able to do them for a few weeks due to elbow tendon strain

working around it doing other bits of stuff

Can do half lever leg raises 6 sets 5 reps
Can hold a half lever for 4 seconds
Ah yes..those damn injuries

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Do muscle fibers multiply with exercise?
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2025, 09:34:20 AM »
Look at that one pro, he had before/after pic, he's on some beach as a teen thhen just a few years later in the gym, low hairline, someone here knows who it is I'm sure. I just think something more than just fiber expansion might be happening, but I'm not smart or studied enough to speculate on what all could be going on. And think of the impact all those drugs might have, especially if started while still developing...

Anyone?

joswift

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Re: Do muscle fibers multiply with exercise?
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2025, 09:46:16 AM »
Look at that one pro, he had before/after pic, he's on some beach as a teen thhen just a few years later in the gym, low hairline, someone here knows who it is I'm sure. I just think something more than just fiber expansion might be happening, but I'm not smart or studied enough to speculate on what all could be going on. And think of the impact all those drugs might have, especially if started while still developing...

Anyone?

It is just expansion

Hyperplasia in muscle tissue occurs in felines and avian species.

Thats it

The science is settled

try and find a single scientific study that says drugs and excercise creates hyperplasia

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Do muscle fibers multiply with exercise?
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2025, 09:51:12 AM »
recommended protein is about 75gms a day to maintain healthy tissue

I know lets eat 500 a day, just to cover all bases

I know what you mean and you're right intakes might be "too high" we all talked about this before. But on the other hand it's not a perfect conversion of "to build 10 grams of new contractile tissue you just need to eat an extra 10 grams of protein." To hit some maximal protein synthetic rates you might "need" seemingly excessive doses of protein. Like a dude my age or your age, probably needs twice the bolus of protein in one sitting compared to a 20 year old (based on studies) for maximal protein synthesis. More protein means more insulin, more causes higher IGF-1 (up to a point) and so on.

And it's just a fact, at least based on my observations, that a heavyweight competitive bb will eat 300 grams of protein on a diet, the intakes are pretty damn similar despite them claiming the have different diets. BigRo is a  big fella, he feels he benefits from it, do you think he would maintain the same stats on say 100 grams? I'd guess the "excessive" protein probably helps him. 8)

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Do muscle fibers multiply with exercise?
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2025, 09:58:47 AM »
It is just expansion

Hyperplasia in muscle tissue occurs in felines and avian species.

Thats it

The science is settled

try and find a single scientific study that says drugs and excercise creates hyperplasia

I know what "google" says. I've looked many times. Can't be bothered to do it again just now but some fairly recent papers have not been so settled on the issue. I recall one paper where the researchers were surprised that muscled individuals had more fibers but they weren't bigger than "normal," exactly the opposite of what the majority of research says. But one paper is just one paper, pretty meaningless. Also there haven't been any bigger studies, lots of subjects, looking at extreme bodybuilders to my knowledge. Also I wonder what could happen in an 8 year old child given anabolics and excessive GH for period, and what about say, mid or late teens who haven't matured yet. Just some thoughts 8)

joswift

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Re: Do muscle fibers multiply with exercise?
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2025, 10:01:07 AM »
I know what "google" says. I've looked many times. Can't be bothered to do it again just now but some fairly recent papers have not been so settled on the issue. I recall one paper where the researchers were surprised that muscled individuals had more fibers but they weren't bigger than "normal," exactly the opposite of what the majority of research says. But one paper is just one paper, pretty meaningless. Also there haven't been any bigger studies, lots of subjects, looking at extreme bodybuilders to my knowledge. Also I wonder what could happen in an 8 year old child given anabolics and excessive GH for period, and what about say, mid or late teens who haven't matured yet. Just some thoughts 8)
its what the scientific papers say, there is zero evidence it occurs

Some say "maybe" but thats not evidence

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Do muscle fibers multiply with exercise?
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2025, 10:11:00 AM »
its what the scientific papers say, there is zero evidence it occurs

Some say "maybe" but thats not evidence

I know. But have you actually went to google scholar and read everything said on the subject, especially most recent data? That's why I say "google" because realistically that's pretty much anyone does unless an actual scientist researching a specific narrow subject. I'll take a little look-see... :D

joswift

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Re: Do muscle fibers multiply with exercise?
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2025, 10:16:26 AM »
what IA says
Evidence and Debate in Humans

The evidence for muscle hyperplasia in humans is scarce, indirect, and highly controversial [1] [2] [3] [4] [12].

Cross-Sectional Studies on Bodybuilders: Some studies comparing elite bodybuilders to sedentary individuals have found that bodybuilders possess a greater number of muscle fibers [2] [13] [14]. This has led to the hypothesis that long-term, high-intensity resistance training might induce hyperplasia. However, a significant limitation of these studies is their cross-sectional design; they cannot determine if the bodybuilders developed more fibers through training or if they were genetically predisposed with a higher baseline number of muscle fibers [2] [7]. Many other studies have found no significant difference in fiber number between bodybuilders and untrained individuals, suggesting that hypertrophy is the primary mechanism for their increased muscle mass [7].

Longitudinal Training Studies: Most longitudinal resistance training studies in humans, which track changes in muscle fiber number before and after a training intervention, have failed to show a direct increase in muscle fiber number [2] [15].

 A meta-analysis published in 2025, which included 11 studies assessing muscle fiber number pre and post resistance training, concluded that resistance exercise did not significantly alter the number of muscle fibers in humans, suggesting hyperplasia is unlikely to occur to a meaningful extent [4].
Myofiber Splitting: The observation of "split" or "branched" muscle fibers in human muscle biopsies, particularly in highly trained individuals or those with certain myopathies, has been proposed as evidence for hyperplasia [16] [17]. However, recent detailed investigations using serial cryosections and advanced microscopy techniques suggest that these "branches" are more likely a result of incomplete fusion of myotubes during regeneration after muscle injury, rather than true fiber splitting leading to an increased fiber count [16]. This implies that what appears to be splitting is actually a physiological feature of healthy muscle regeneration, where immature myotubes fuse with existing myofibers [16].
Anabolic Steroids: The use of anabolic steroids has been linked to a higher number of muscle cells in some studies, suggesting a potential role for pharmacological agents in inducing hyperplasia [2] [7] [18]. This might also contribute to the "muscle memory" phenomenon, where individuals who have previously used steroids retain muscle gains more easily [7].
Eccentric Exercise: While eccentric exercises (muscle lengthening under tension) are highly effective for promoting muscle hypertrophy, the evidence for their ability to induce hyperplasia in humans is limited and inconclusive [3]. Some experts believe it's unlikely, while others suggest it's a possibility, especially with extremely heavy loads [3].

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Do muscle fibers multiply with exercise?
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2025, 10:35:56 AM »
what IA says

Anabolic Steroids: The use of anabolic steroids has been linked to a higher number of muscle cells in some studies, suggesting a potential role for pharmacological agents in inducing hyperplasia

Yes I know all that. But there was that bolded section too. Plus other scientists say there are very few studies on drug using athletes, or just bodybuilders in general, natural or otherwise.

For example, in the opinion of someone

Quote
Notwithstanding an undoubted role of fibres hypertrophy, the traditionally accepted quantitative mechanism of muscle plasticity is not fully able to explain the observed changes in muscle mass due to resistance exercise. In fact, studies performed on resistance athletes have shown a wide range of muscle hypertrophy without a strict correlation with changes in fibre size. This observation is most clear when considering the few available studies on body builders. These reported only limited hypertrophy of muscle fibres, failing to account for the obvious and extreme hypertrophy of whole muscles (MacDougall et al. 1982; Tesch & Larsson, 1982) [/i][/size]
https://www.physoc.org/magazine-articles/muscle-mass-at-the-top-a-likely-role-for-fibre-hyperplasia-in-humans/

IroNat

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Re: Do muscle fibers multiply with exercise?
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2025, 10:39:06 AM »
they are talking about naturally produced IGF1 produced in your liver, not artifical IGF1

It indicates otherwise.  However, without artificial means it is not possible.

"With IGF-1 use, one is able to cause hyperplasia which actually increases the number of muscle cells present in the tissue."

joswift

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Re: Do muscle fibers multiply with exercise?
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2025, 10:41:02 AM »
Yes I know all that. But there was that bolded section too. Plus other scientists say there are very few studies on drug using athletes, or just bodybuilders in general, natural or otherwise.

For example, in the opinion of someone


https://www.physoc.org/magazine-articles/muscle-mass-at-the-top-a-likely-role-for-fibre-hyperplasia-in-humans/

his opinion is based on his opinion
Quote
Unfortunately, to date, only indirect observations like ours support this hypothesis in humans. In animal models (rat or chicken) some evidence does suggest that hyperplasia can occur in overloaded conditions or after stretching.

all other studies apart from this guy including meta analysis studies found no evidence at all