Author Topic: Red Wine  (Read 11119 times)

Dos Equis

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Re: Red Wine
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2006, 12:02:57 AM »
Bad analogy Beach  :-X

In a nutshell........

                                 http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/heart/9907/06/wine.heart/index.html

I'll post some information about the "French Paradox" tomorrow (when I can pull a book from my office shelf), but this article says the "beneficial compounds" in wine are grapes.  The article then makes a leap by saying grape juice doesn't preserve these compounds as effectively as wine (i.e., doesn't address grapes vs. wine):

Important chemical compounds

A possible explanation for wine's health effects lies in what it's made from: Grapes and other fruits are loaded with phenolic chemical compounds called flavonoids, as well as other antioxidant compounds. These compounds have been shown to reduce the artery-clogging propensities of low-density lipids (LDL), the "bad" form of cholesterol, as well as inhibit the formation of blood clots. In fact, one of the wine and heart disease studies also found that fruit consumption itself led to lower cardiovascular disease mortality -- just drinking grape or other juice and eating fresh fruits may suffice to improve heart health. This is especially good news for nondrinkers.

Wine's special delivery

But wine presents these flavonoids and antioxidants to the body in a way that juices do not. During the course of processing ordinary juice, the phenolic compounds are largely degraded by their exposure to oxygen, dramatically lowering levels of the heart-helping chemical substances. Wine making, with its anaerobic process (that is, one not exposed to oxygen), preserves these. Juice is still "good for the heart," but perhaps not as good as wine.

A glass or two of wine each day may be good for your heart. Other alcoholic beverages, taken in moderation, may give somewhat less benefit. Eating a diet low in saturated fats is certainly wise, especially if it includes lots of fresh fruits and juices. Whatever it takes to get your heart health in shape, you should definitely do it -- and wine may be part of the solution.

Dos Equis

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Re: Red Wine
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2006, 10:54:40 AM »
Couldn't find the book I was thinking about.  I read a long time ago that the French Paradox was actually a myth.  Here is the gist of what I recall reading (taken from a web site):

Heard it on the e-vine
by Martin Field
French paradox - hit or myth?

In 1995 "60 Minutes" ran a program called The French Paradox where they investigated France's comparatively low incidence of death from heart disease and questioned how a country famous for its diet of rich foods could maintain its population in good cardiovascular health.

The "60 Minutes" expert crew alleged that this low mortality rate was due to the fact that France was a world leader in wine consumption and that wine, particularly red, counteracted the adverse effects of "bad" cholesterol. Great news for red wine drinkers: just eat like the French, drink a few glasses of red every day and Voila! avoid the risk of heart attack. Suddenly red wine was promoted as a health drink almost on a par with orange juice, sales rocketed and winemakers were delighted.

It couldn't last. In the May 29 issue of the British Medical Journal (www.bmj.com) authors Law and Wald argued that the low incidence of heart disease in France could be accounted for by factors other than wine consumption. As well as citing significant underreporting by French doctors of deaths from heart disease, they offered a time lag theory of to explain the paradox.

"We propose that the difference is due to the time lag between increases in consumption of animal fat and serum cholesterol concentrations and the resulting increase in mortality from heart disease - similar to the recognised time lag between smoking and lung cancer. Consumption of animal fat and serum cholesterol concentrations increased only recently in France but did so decades ago in Britain…" Their article also asserted that although there is evidence of a correlation between alcohol consumption and lower heart disease this occurs with consumption of all types of alcoholic drinks, not just wine.

Acknowledging the Law and Wald hypothesis at the European Society of Cardiology (www.esc.be) conference in Barcelona early September, Dr Michel de Lorgeril further pointed out that French men have one of the highest alcohol-related premature death rates in Europe, including death caused by cirrhosis of the liver and gastrointestinal cancer. And to put the final nail in the paradoxical coffin (so to speak) he added, "French men have a lower average life span than others in Europe."

The French paradox is apparently no more.

What to do? Drink alcohol in moderation, eat less fatty foods, exercise regularly…and hope for the best.

© Martin Field

http://www.stratsplace.com/martin/french_paradox.html
 

loco

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Re: Red Wine
« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2006, 12:05:49 PM »
Bad analogy Beach  :-X

In a nutshell........

                                 http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/heart/9907/06/wine.heart/index.html

Didn't like my analogy, Princess?   :)

Beach,
A tomato is a tomato, right?  Yet cooked tomatoes have health benefits that raw tomatoes do not.  Just because wine is made of grapes does not mean fresh grapes provide the same health benefits as wine does. 

loco

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Re: Red Wine
« Reply #28 on: June 01, 2006, 12:21:31 PM »
It's not red wine per se, it's alcohol contained in red wine and beer, etc.   It's the same chemical whether you consume it in whiskey out of a paper bag, or in the form of red wine in a $100 wine glass.  This is just one study on the effects of alcohol on test. which I found easily on yahoo, I'm sure you could find many more.

"Alcohol and the Male Reproductive System"

pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh25-4/282-287.pdf


See also Alcohol and Bodybuilding

www.mindandmuscle.net/magmain.php?issueID=4&pageID=59

Rambo,
What is this? 

"Chronic alcoholics"? 

"I would not consider it unusual for a 200lb person to put down 20 drinks o­n a good Friday night"?

This has nothing to do with what we are talking about here.  We are talking about 4oz - 16oz red wine a day.  I thought you were talking about a study showing that moderate consumption of red wine negatively affects testosterone levels.  I wasn't talking about studies showing the side effects of heavy drinking.  If fact, drinking 3+ glasses of red wine a day not only wipes out all of the benefits, but it adds all of the side effects of drinking too much alcohol.

Personally, I don't like the taste of red wine.  I drink it for the health benefits.  Other than that, I do not drink nor do I recommend heavy drinking to anybody.  Moderation is the key.

loco

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Re: Red Wine
« Reply #29 on: June 01, 2006, 12:25:56 PM »
Resveratrol is the active ingredient thought to be responsible; its found in dark grapes but a particularly potent, bioavailable source is red wine. Resveratrol has been shown to dramatically increase the rate at which cells metabolize fat.

MidniteRambo

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Re: Red Wine
« Reply #30 on: June 01, 2006, 01:07:20 PM »
Rambo,
What is this? 

"Chronic alcoholics"? 

"I would not consider it unusual for a 200lb person to put down 20 drinks o­n a good Friday night"?

This has nothing to do with what we are talking about here.  We are talking about 4oz - 16oz red wine a day.  I thought you were talking about a study showing that moderate consumption of red wine negatively affects testosterone levels.  I wasn't talking about studies showing the side effects of heavy drinking.  If fact, drinking 3+ glasses of red wine a day not only wipes out all of the benefits, but it adds all of the side effects of drinking too much alcohol.

Personally, I don't like the taste of red wine.  I drink it for the health benefits.  Other than that, I do not drink nor do I recommend heavy drinking to anybody.  Moderation is the key.


Maybe the study wasn't the right one for the point, but the point remains that even MODERATE alcohol consumption has a negative effect on testosterone levels.

For example, see "Moderate alcohol consumption increases plasma levels of a protective hormone"
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-05/ace-mac050604.php

"For this experiment, 10 middle-aged men and nine postmenopausal women – all considered healthy, non-smoking, and moderate drinkers – consumed either regular beer or nonalcoholic beer with dinner during two successive periods of three weeks. During the period of beer consumption, the men consumed 40 and the women 30 grams per day. The composition of the participants' diet was the same during all six weeks. At the end of the six-week study, fasting blood samples were collected in the morning."

"Researchers found that moderate alcohol consumption can  . . .decrease plasma testosterone among men . . ."

Over the years I have read similar studies and similar references.  Even low amounts of alcohol have a range of negative effects, not just on testsosterone but other aspects.  Now, as I did above, I confess that I have a drink (or two) on occasion.  But I do not kid myself- alcohol even in modest amounts is one of the absolute worst substances you can put in your body.




MidniteRambo

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Re: Red Wine
« Reply #31 on: June 01, 2006, 01:14:41 PM »
See Also

"Moderate Alcohol May Help Prostate" http://www.personalmd.com/news/a1999012002.shtml

"NEW YORK, Jan 20 (Reuters Health) -- Men who drink moderate amounts of alcohol -- about two drinks per day of beer or liquor -- may reduce their risk of benign prostate enlargement . . . according to a study in the American Journal of Epidemiology . . .

The Harvard researchers confirmed what several other studies have found -- moderate alcohol consumption appears to lower risk of [Benign prostate hyperplasia] They hypothesize that alcohol, which reduces concentrations of testosterone in the blood, may affect the development or progression of BPH."


Now do I wish it were otherwise?  Hell yes.  But the "Moderate Drinking is Good For You" theory, while finding some support in come scientific circles, has another side which people turn a blind eye to.  Testosterone is one of the issues.

loco

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Re: Red Wine
« Reply #32 on: June 01, 2006, 01:16:54 PM »
Rambo,
That's more like it.  Thanks for the links!

Dos Equis

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Re: Red Wine
« Reply #33 on: June 01, 2006, 03:13:36 PM »
Didn't like my analogy, Princess?   :)

Beach,
A tomato is a tomato, right?  Yet cooked tomatoes have health benefits that raw tomatoes do not.  Just because wine is made of grapes does not mean fresh grapes provide the same health benefits as wine does. 

I guess.  But you don't let a tomato rot to get health benefits.  Not the same as cooking it.  Unlike grapes, which have to spoil first (I think?).  But I'll lay off the analogies.   :)

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Re: Red Wine
« Reply #34 on: June 01, 2006, 03:18:38 PM »
nah nah nah nah... nah nah nah nah.... hey hey hey....





wine is good
wine is great
i loved the chicken
that i just ate

loco

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Re: Red Wine
« Reply #35 on: June 01, 2006, 03:35:57 PM »
I guess.  But you don't let a tomato rot to get health benefits.  Not the same as cooking it.  Unlike grapes, which have to spoil first (I think?).  But I'll lay off the analogies.   :)

Okay, bad analogy!

Dos Equis

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Re: Red Wine
« Reply #36 on: June 01, 2006, 05:48:15 PM »
Okay, bad analogy!

You're right.  Maybe I should have used eggs.   :)  Kidding.

4thAD

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Re: Red Wine
« Reply #37 on: June 04, 2006, 06:12:45 PM »
I love wine.
I love to drink it.
I dont want to hear,
anymore bull shit!

Princess L

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Re: Red Wine
« Reply #38 on: June 04, 2006, 09:43:16 PM »
I love wine.
I love to drink it.

Merlot?
Cab?
Zin?
Pinot?
What
?
?
?
:

mopar_freak

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Re: Red Wine
« Reply #39 on: June 04, 2006, 11:13:46 PM »
what if you boil the win to kill most of the alcohol???
that way you get the positive effects of the wine without the calories.

any thoughts?
mish1234
so hot

4thAD

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Re: Red Wine
« Reply #40 on: June 05, 2006, 12:23:07 AM »
Ive had a taste for smoking loon merlot lately!

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Re: Red Wine
« Reply #41 on: June 05, 2006, 02:26:23 AM »

Merlot?
Cab?
Zin?
Pinot?
What
?
?
?


anything that you'll share with me in front of the fire place  :D

4thAD

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Re: Red Wine
« Reply #42 on: June 05, 2006, 08:09:15 AM »
what if you boil the win to kill most of the alcohol???
that way you get the positive effects of the wine without the calories.

any thoughts?


I'm really not that much of a psycho!

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Re: Red Wine
« Reply #43 on: June 05, 2006, 03:05:41 PM »
what if you boil the win to kill most of the alcohol???
that way you get the positive effects of the wine without the calories.

any thoughts?


you were kidding right?

mopar_freak

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Re: Red Wine
« Reply #44 on: June 06, 2006, 12:07:10 AM »
you were kidding right?


why???  when you think about it... it should work
mish1234
so hot

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Re: Red Wine
« Reply #45 on: June 06, 2006, 02:42:35 AM »

why???  when you think about it... it should work


dude... cooking with wine is cool.... cooking wine is not...


the alcohol is the best part....

Crazykid909

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Re: Red Wine
« Reply #46 on: June 06, 2006, 06:25:55 PM »
Ive noticed alot more vascularity since ive started drinking wine on a regular basis. I just go with Merlot. I know its helped in precontest as well.

loco

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Re: Red Wine
« Reply #47 on: June 06, 2006, 06:32:34 PM »

Crazykid909

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Re: Red Wine
« Reply #48 on: June 06, 2006, 06:34:19 PM »
A bottle of that should be good times.....

Princess L

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Re: Red Wine
« Reply #49 on: June 06, 2006, 09:21:24 PM »


Chile has some great reds.
Looks yummy  :P
: