Author Topic: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?  (Read 26447 times)

ribonucleic

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #150 on: June 08, 2006, 12:26:40 PM »
Would anyone here put it past the IFBB to try to sabotage the show if they knew more details?

Point taken.

But allow me to reply with a tu quoque : Would anyone put it past Wayne to screw over the athletes in pursuit of his own agenda?

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #151 on: June 08, 2006, 12:28:41 PM »
Above all- why shoot the load now when there's 3 months till showtime?

Anyone who doubts Wayne's ability to market... well, if you're in that boat, you've never had a conversation with the man.

I Invite Horton and anyone else to email Wayne and ASK HIM your questions.  You bitch about it here, but won't step up and see his reasoning.  Part of a successful marketing campaign is NOT to give everything you have at once.  Instead, you deliver info slowly and consistently.  We've been talking about PDI nonstop for 3 months, and we won't konw half of the info yet.  He's doing something right ;)


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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #152 on: June 08, 2006, 12:34:49 PM »
Point taken.

But allow me to reply with a tu quoque : Would anyone put it past Wayne to screw over the athletes in pursuit of his own agenda?

His agenda is a sustainable pro BBing federation, right?  If he does screw over many athletes, he will not have a sustainable pro Bbing federation. 

Something is different right now than in 2004.  He has athletes now.  I'm not going to tell you why he has athletes- but they're getting a sexy deal that doesn't just mean money- it means HEALTH.  I'm not going to announce it, as some jackasses will doubt, hate, piss, moan, lie, belittle, etc.  But there is a reason why nearly every guy wants to go to the PDI, even if they're not talking about it. 

Wayne's athletes are going to be healthy, and they are going to know what is happening to their bodies.  They will be safer, they will be examined, they won't be breaking laws and they won't be in the "on your own" health care situation they face in the IFBB.

So deny, demand details, call names, whatever makes you feel good.  But when you learn about it in 10-12weeks, be equally vocal, horton, mmkay?

ribonucleic

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #153 on: June 08, 2006, 12:38:44 PM »
His agenda is a sustainable pro BBing federation, right? 

So he claims. But he doesn't appear to have earned the reputation of being a man of his word.

If he does screw over many athletes, he will not have a sustainable pro Bbing federation. 

Never seemed to stop the IFBB.  ;)

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #154 on: June 08, 2006, 12:44:16 PM »
So he claims. But he doesn't appear to have earned the reputation of being a man of his word.

Never seemed to stop the IFBB.  ;)

Wayne says that is his goal.  I have no reason not to believe him.  We live in a country where anything could happen at any time- businesses start and they fail.  I can't speak for anything in the past, cause I didn't follow politics back then in BBing.  But I can speak on the efficacy of this organization, from the aspects that I have seen.  That's about it tho.


IFBB could screw ppl over without consequence, cause they were a monopoly.  In a free market, jilted employers are very motivated to work for a competitor :)


onlyme

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #155 on: June 08, 2006, 12:47:49 PM »
Point taken.

But allow me to reply with a tu quoque : Would anyone put it past Wayne to screw over the athletes in pursuit of his own agenda?

If was to screw the athletes wouldn't that fuck up his agenda bigtime.  That is why he won't fuck with the ahtletes cause he knows he needs them more than they need him.

onlyme

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #156 on: June 08, 2006, 12:55:04 PM »
So he claims. But he doesn't appear to have earned the reputation of being a man of his word.

Never seemed to stop the IFBB.  ;)

The problem back then was the IFBB was the only game in town and the Weiders know that they could do anything they wanted to the competitors and what were they going to do.  You either play ball or you "don't play ball". 

What I don't understand is how people are thinking Wayne was the main problems in the IFBB when Weiders were the boss and giving Wayne the orders.  Why do you think guys are switching over.  If what some of you say is true about how bad Wayne is why would anyone go over.  Wouldn't that be stupid.  Especially a new organization tha thas proven nothing yet.  But the guys who come over realize that Wayne was an employee of Weider doing his job.  They obviously trust Wayne and would rather go with him than stick it out with the IFBB that goes nowhere and does nothing for the members.  The only thing and I mean the ONLY thing keeping any of the big name guys from coming right now is the money.  They would love to come over but why right now when the money is less than the IFBB has.  At least for now.  You think Heath, Charles and the others wouldn't being signed on right now if the NOC had a $200,000 purse or even $100,000.  They would be in that thing in a second.

ribonucleic

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #157 on: June 08, 2006, 12:55:59 PM »
he knows he needs them more than they need him.

Unless Wayne is doing gay-for-pay and/or hustling steroids, I don't see how that's possible.

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #158 on: June 08, 2006, 01:00:59 PM »
  They would love to come over but why right now when the money is less than the IFBB has.  At least for now.  You think Heath, Charles and the others wouldn't being signed on right now if the NOC had a $200,000 purse or even $100,000.  They would be in that thing in a second.

I have to disagree with you ... until the PDI is established, up and running ..no pro wants to be blackballed for life. Darrem has made soo much money by doing what he is doing and Phil stands to only earn more as time goes by. IFBB is a sure thing, no matter how much money PDI puts up in their first year. Now if were into year 4 or 5 ..then i could see that happening. The guys who are signed right now have nothin to lose. Vince Taylor has done everyhting under the sun in the IFBB and Lee Preist is on his own planet all together.
L

ribonucleic

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #159 on: June 08, 2006, 01:05:08 PM »
But the guys who come over realize that Wayne was an employee of Weider doing his job.... You think Heath, Charles and the others wouldn't being signed on right now if the NOC had a $200,000 purse or even $100,000.

Heath is being groomed as the next Mr. O when Ronnie finally retires. I don't think he's willing to cash out his dream yet.

Charles does (or at least should) know that 2nd or 3rd place at the Arnold is the best he'll ever do in the IFBB. So sure, he'd go over for a payday. But as you point out, there isn't one there.

And yes, the DeMilia apologists have long claimed that he was "only following orders". But if he'd screw an athlete over for a scumbag like Joe Weider to enrich himself indirectly, why wouldn't he screw over an athlete to enrich himself directly?

Palpatine Q

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #160 on: June 08, 2006, 01:13:44 PM »
 There is a lot of revisionist history going on here. The same people who were vilifying Demilia in the past are ready to make him a Saint. I think Wayne was a little more than the Weider lap dog you guys are making him out to be.

kmhphoto

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #161 on: June 08, 2006, 01:17:56 PM »

Soooo- let me get this straight.

You already got the answer form the man running the event.  The PDI is not yet ready to announce this information.

Soooo- you hop on a message board, and ask others involved to reveal something that the man in charge will not?

Do you not see why it would be asinine to give you information, Kevin?  You wrote Wayne, he didn't give you intel you wanted for your IFBB daddies, so you bitch on the board, and ask those less involved for information.

Man, you're soulless, brother!

Wrong again MP1,
I said I DIDN'T ask him because he always says the same thing.
What I and others find rather odd is that we are less than 12 weeks away from a scheduled PDI qualihyig show, yet there is ZERO information available to athletes, fans, the press and even MP1 and 2.
You constantly bring the IFBB into it, but that is not the issue as it's no their show. It's a PDI one.



kmhphoto

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #162 on: June 08, 2006, 01:20:54 PM »
I think he only saysd that to you.  Cause he answers every question I ask him.  In fact in long length.  Could it just be you Kevin.  I mean you are just a photographer that really means nothing.  your kind is a dime a dozen.  So just maybe you aren't worthy fo Wayne's response.  Have you thought about that.  I mean really, come on you can do absolutely nothing positive or negative for the PDI so why waste time telling you anything. 

Ok, I'll accept that Wayne may not want to tell me anything, but why does he want to keep it a secret to the rest of the world?

ribonucleic

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #163 on: June 08, 2006, 01:24:15 PM »
What I and others find rather odd is that we are less than 12 weeks away from a scheduled PDI qualihyig show, yet there is ZERO information available to athletes

Are you suggesting that Wayne is doing potential PDI competitors a disservice by giving them less than 12 weeks to prepare for a contest?

Because this isn't the IFBB, you know. The athletes are going to be taken care of when Wayne is running things.

 ;)


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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #164 on: June 08, 2006, 01:29:21 PM »
All of this talk about bigger prize money is great but what is the breakdown? Does the 10th place guy get $1k or is it something worth actually talking about like 15k to make it worth their while and not lose money?

The thing that most of you keep failing to realize or acknowledge is that most of these guys make money through sponsorships and guest posing. If you go to the PDI and there are few sponsors and no guest posings opportunities, the guys out of the top 5 are no better off then staying in the IFBB. At least the IFBB guys have a chance at magazine exposure and endorsements that PAY. Not trade for supplements. Aside from MuscleMag no magazines are showing that they will cover the PDI. MD did initially but we don't see their logo on the flyer, so how much will they really cover it? What other BB mags does that leave to give the athletes exposure?

Elevate Your Image.™

ribonucleic

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #165 on: June 08, 2006, 01:31:09 PM »
What other BB mags does that leave to give the athletes exposure?

Muscle Elegance.

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #166 on: June 08, 2006, 01:31:57 PM »
If you go to the PDI and there are few sponsors and no guest posings opportunities, the guys out of the top 5 are no better off then staying in the IFBB.


Those guys arent even IFBB pros if they place out of a PDI top 5
L

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #167 on: June 08, 2006, 01:33:51 PM »
Problem is think about the health care.  Once wayne announced the info, everyone called the clinic and called for investigations and everything else.

Would anyone here put it past the IFBB to try to sabotage the show if they knew more details?  Calling in cancellations, attempting to secure resources they'll need that weekend, etc?  Hiring away staff/equipment?  Secret contracts?  Media rumors?  Maybe a big ifbb announcement that weekend just to steal a little pdi thunder?

The IFBB WILL lose millions if the PDI suceeds.  They WILL play dirty to ensure some snags pop up.  THe minute they know something, they'll post rumors and go after resources.  

And since the PDI is a private company, it's his call.  If you don't like this system, don't go, Kevin.  

Finally, anyone who tells me I'm crazy for thinking that these kinds of dirty tricks aren't played is a complete naive fool.  With millions of dollars to lose, people get VERY creative when trying to influence public perception of an event's outcome.  The IFBB is ALREADY starting rumors (Have you seen the title to this thread?) and it's only going to get worse.

The health care was bogus. The PDI made a statement that was false plain and simple. No conspiracy there MP1. Call the hospital and ask H.Pope.

So now you're claiming that details of the Vegas show have to be kept secret because the IFBB wil sabotage it! Are you mad? How come details of the NOC are available then?

I asked if the show has been cancelled because there are no details available.
As usual, without any checking of facts you accused me of being a liar and making up the show!
But, unlucky for you, it was on your site - that really must of hurt ;D

Your blind allegiance to your MASTER really makes you look foolish at times. Do yourself a favor, take off his collar.

kmhphoto

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #168 on: June 08, 2006, 01:38:45 PM »
Actually, with many events and product lines, the information is TIGHTLY held to ensure that competitors do not copy, improve upon the design, steal, or sabotage the offering BEFORE it hits the market. 

For instance, Gilette knows 2-3 years ahead of launch what its next razor will be- but they keep that info very tight.  The next Coca-Cola variant is already ready- but we won't hear about it until it's ready to hit shelves. 

Once the IFBB has details, they will start attacking every little aspect that they can.  You already see Horton, Chic, and the rest of the IFBB Toolshed saying things like 'there is no money' and 'las vegas is cancelled' when they have NO INFORMATION whatsoever about the situation.

Once they have that info, you'll see more and more dirty tricks.

At least when Gillette do launch a product they advertise.
Your lying really does have to stop. I ASKED if the show was cancelled, I didn't say it was.
I agree I had NO INFORMATION, NOBODY HAS!!!!!!

If this was an IFBB event you'd be shouting that ever widening mouth of yours off and claining that the end is nigh and MP2 would be posting his sinking ship photo. But because it's one of your shows, everything is fine and dandy.



ribonucleic

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #169 on: June 08, 2006, 01:39:15 PM »
Those guys arent even IFBB pros if they place out of a PDI top 5

Don't forget that one of the revolutionary advancements Wayne has brought to the sport is the handing out of pro cards to builders that Il Duce considers worthy of his esteem.

What's still missing though is a catchy name for this concept. "Pro To-Go"? "Pro Express"? "Pro Lite"?

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #170 on: June 08, 2006, 01:43:37 PM »
All of this talk about bigger prize money is great but what is the breakdown? Does the 10th place guy get $1k or is it something worth actually talking about like 15k to make it worth their while and not lose money?

How can a guy place 10th if there's only 6 guys in the "organization"? Or did Arvilla get his "Pro" card too?

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kmhphoto

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #171 on: June 08, 2006, 01:51:32 PM »
Cause he answers every question I ask him. 

I'm not surprised he talks to you Mr Gullible.
How's your friends hair sale going?

ribonucleic

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #172 on: June 08, 2006, 01:53:45 PM »
At least when Gillette do launch a product they advertise.

They also have their own web site.

And a non-Yahoo e-mail address.

 ::)

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #173 on: June 08, 2006, 01:56:27 PM »
Kevin, your last two posts have been mocking and very negative.  I gave you 3 posts with cold logic and real-life implications of shooting your marketing load too early.

The athletes who are interested in doing the shows have been encouraged to contact Wayne.  He is giving them the info they need to do shows.  Kevin, when you choose to enter a PDI qualifier, I am sure that Wayne will give you that information too.  

Kevin, listen man, let's take the insults out of this.  We're both better than that... Sorry I went there, and I plan not to again.

Kevin, you're a photographer.  I do not claim to know your business training, your experience in competition strategy, or your skill in market delivery of a product or service.  If I wanted to know if Nikon owns HP in megapixels, I'm calling you.  

However, I do not think you do not have a great understanding of how competition works in America.  Here, if Company A learns about Company B's future plans... and B can steal market share and resources/athletes/fans from A resulting in losses of million of $ and possibly overtake A as the monopoly eventually... then A is going to attempt to stop B.

The first response methods might be as simple as sending its employees on boards to bash B.  To start rumors about B's shows being cancelled.  To attack the character of B's mgmt team.  To even start pissing matches with B's outsourced labor, like 240.  This is knee jerk PR reaction.

Next, A will secure its own resources.  Send memos and Chics out to pass the message that A is strong, B is weak, and leaving A for B will be punished.  This is happening now. A will also secure promoters, photogs, web guys, sponsors, expo personnel, and anyone else who B might be using to make the event a success.  This is defending your entrenched position.

Then, and this is the case when millions of dollars on the line, A will develop greater plans to defend their industry position.  They will give money to vendors to be unavailable that week.  They will try to secure infrastructural resources which B will need. They will do other things, but I don't wanna give them any more ideas lol... This, of course, is A's attempt to attack B's "railroad", so that B is too busy putting out small supply fires to attack A any more, which subsequently stifles growth)0

Horton, you're a great photographer.  However, I do think that your immediate dismissal of any notion that the IFBB would utilize a few strategic moves (read: dirty tricks) to keep their position is, well, laughable.  People with the intelligence to get millions of dollars are typically bright enough to know how to defend those millions of dollars.  

Professor 240 has spoken.  My consulting fee will be in the mail.




kmhphoto

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Re: PDI Vegas Show - Cancelled?
« Reply #174 on: June 08, 2006, 01:58:39 PM »
What I don't understand is how people are thinking Wayne was the main problems in the IFBB when Weiders were the boss and giving Wayne the orders. 

Since Wayne was fired not one athlete has been fined or suspended. I wonder how much Wayne would have wanted to fine Lee Priest for pulling out of 2 Olympias in a row?