2006 PDI / X-Treme challenge expo canceled

[Vince G, CSN MFT]

Is this really Vince Goodrum, or one of the people he claims uses his account:  JohnJohn, RayRay, Bookie, the Smash Bros., Uncle Petey and Aunt Faith, etc?

You lie all the time Vince.

Its the real me, 240.  Unfortunately, the post I made was also very real

[240 is Back]

Jesus Christ 240... Shut your fucking piehole already...  You completely made an ass out of yourself above and beyond here.  It's just sad watching you hissy fit like a little slapped around 2 year old.

Why are you so rude and profane?  in real life, when someone disagrees with you, do you act like such a fool?  I'm being good here now, and I'm arguing seriously here.  

[240 is Back]

Vince, I've already heard from 4 ppl that you emailed or PMed them with a "BIG SECRET" that you're being paid by the IFBB to spread "THE WORD" that PDI guys will be blackballed.  I find holes in this story.

1) Bob Chick has said not that anyone will be blackballed, but that they'll be banned.  This contradicts what he says.

2) The IFBB does not exactly toss money around.

3) You have zero credibility here or on other boards. I can name 5 big hoaxes you've made in the last year, and I hear you used to be worse.  Vince, you frequently lie.

4) it's common sense that any athlete would figure if they jump ship and return, they'll probably get screwed.  Not exactly breaking news here.  If it happens, and a first place Lee gets 9th place at an IFBB show, what happens?  Fans call BS, and the IFBB suffers.  Remember the Rusty / masters Pro mess?  The PDI was born of poor judging and gh guts.  Putting a top lee last at a show would only legitimize the PDI in the eyes of the fans.

5) You have a history with DeMilia- you tried to sell him a domain name you squatted on, and he declined.  I bought names too, and sold them early.  You held out, and ended up losing.  You want some payback, sure.

6) Finally, Vince, it just doesn't feeeeel right.   I have nothing against you, but I do know that you start some preposterous stories to always keep your name active here.  This is a way for you, a fringe salesman, to propel your name into the IFBB/PDI conversation.  If indeed you were being secretly paid to spread the word, you wouldn't tell anonymous strangers in PMs about your payment. 

That is all.  I'm reallly trying hard not to flame, as I'm on warning for making pros melt.  But I do see flaws in your statements and I do think you're just making it up. that is all. 

[Vince G, CSN MFT]

Vince, I've already heard from 4 ppl that you emailed or PMed them with a "BIG SECRET" that you're being paid by the IFBB to spread "THE WORD" that PDI guys will be blackballed.  I find holes in this story.

1) Bob Chick has said not that anyone will be blackballed, but that they'll be banned.  This contradicts what he says.

2) The IFBB does not exactly toss money around.

3) You have zero credibility here or on other boards. I can name 5 big hoaxes you've made in the last year, and I hear you used to be worse.  Vince, you frequently lie.

4) it's common sense that any athlete would figure if they jump ship and return, they'll probably get screwed.  Not exactly breaking news here.  If it happens, and a first place Lee gets 9th place at an IFBB show, what happens?  Fans call BS, and the IFBB suffers.  Remember the Rusty / masters Pro mess?  The PDI was born of poor judging and gh guts.  Putting a top lee last at a show would only legitimize the PDI in the eyes of the fans.

5) You have a history with DeMilia- you tried to sell him a domain name you squatted on, and he declined.  I bought names too, and sold them early.  You held out, and ended up losing.  You want some payback, sure.

6) Finally, Vince, it just doesn't feeeeel right.   I have nothing against you, but I do know that you start some preposterous stories to always keep your name active here.  This is a way for you, a fringe salesman, to propel your name into the IFBB/PDI conversation.  If indeed you were being secretly paid to spread the word, you wouldn't tell anonymous strangers in PMs about your payment. 

That is all.  I'm reallly trying hard not to flame, as I'm on warning for making pros melt.  But I do see flaws in your statements and I do think you're just making it up. that is all. 

I've not been paid by the IFBB at all nor am I a representative of the IFBB.  I also do not discuss my business with anyone.  I passed along some information and that was it...nothing else.  I won't say I don't have a financial interest in the PDI failing but that doesn't mean I would take payments from the IFBB nor has it ever been solicted.  Nevertheless my work is done and I haven't posted anything of the sort lately or will ever again


You know 240, I had you do some banners for me and I was planning to pay you next month to re-design my website.  But now I've changed my mind about it due to the constant slamming of me, my business, and my personal standing.  I'll have someone else do it for me.



I don't see any new "positive 240".  I only see a very bitter one.  Perhaps its because designing websites for 300 dollars isn't really much once you deduct expenses, taxes, etc thus taking you to minimum wage status as Chick stated.  Better get a job at Wendy's or something.  I don't care much for credibility from the naysayers because my customers and clients let me know by purchasing my products and service.



If you don't like what I had to say, too bad.  BTW, you've stated that you make more money than me.  I would like to say this to you, it takes 2 to 4 weeks for you to design a 300.00 website.  It only takes a few minutes for me to sell a $499 dollar Total Trainer or $699 Bodyrail Elite.  You are not in my league bro.  I've been in business since 2001 so if you manage to last at least 3 years let me know 
 

[kmhphoto]

Berserker, if Lee and others who have qualified for the O are not allowed to compete (they have signed the contract), they have said they will sue the IFBB.

IMO, precedent set in the past, examples of men being allowed to do shows with competing organizations AND the IFBB, could possibly come into play with a trial.  Maybe I'm wrong... maybe a nonprofit org CAN selectively enforce rules.  However the idea of lee on the stand spilling his guts on the IFBB is something they probably don't want, and will avoid by letting him compete, anyway.

Thoughts to discuss.

Athletes compete in the PDI, the IFBB then choose to implement a rule that the athletes are well aware of.
As a result of this the athletes are barrred from competing in the Mr Olympia.
The athletes could POSSIBLY sue for breach of contract. Is there a clause which mentions the IFBB rules in the contract?
Are the IFBB listed as promoters on the contract?
If not then they would have to sue AMI?

I'm not sure how it is in US law, but in the UK the IFBB's lack of enforcement of rules does not set a legal precedent.

[240 is Back]

kev-
I don't know the law that well.  Priest mentioned that would be part of the basis of his case- that the IFBB selectively enforces its rulebook.  I don't know if it'll fly in court, but I think the threat of spilling the beans on what he knows about the IFBB was Lee's bigger threat.

vince- i'm just posting my opinion.   i'm not trying to slam you, but you are - by your own admission- attempting to undermine an organization which will bring more money to pro athletes, for your own financial gain.  will you admit that much?

and I do work on more than one website at a time.  I sell two to five sites a week, then work 12 hours a day on them.  some weeks are thin, some are very good, and i also do okay on per-charge updates. 

[240 is Back]

This is only just the beginning, the shows are being canceled, and soon will be the PDI.  And anyone who steps on stage will be in a world of shit when they try to come back to the IFBB

Exactly 65 minutes pass.

I haven't posted anything of the sort lately or will ever again

[Chick]

Thoughts to discuss.

Athletes compete in the PDI, the IFBB then choose to implement a rule that the athletes are well aware of.
As a result of this the athletes are barred from competing in the Mr Olympia.
The athletes could POSSIBLY sue for breach of contract. Is there a clause which mentions the IFBB rules in the contract?
Are the IFBB listed as promoters on the contract?
If not then they would have to sue AMI?

I'm not sure how it is in US law, but in the UK the IFBB's lack of enforcement of rules does not set a legal precedent.

I've already addressed this, but it keeps coming up.....

Lee is talking about using OTHER peoples issues to address his own...it won't fly in court (if it ever got there).

Using examples of OTHER people being disciplined or not disciplined for rules which have no direct correlation to your own case...would be irrelevant. One of Lee's examples was that some of the Female BBers have porn type websites, etc...and haven't been suspended. Whether this is true or not has NO BEARING on whether or not HE would be suspended for competing in a non-sanctioned show.

The only basis that would apply, is if HE were suspended and lets say, Vince Taylor was not for the same infraction....NOW you would have a point to present.

[240 is Back]

Too much suing going on.  i miss the days where wit was the weapon of choice.

[kmhphoto]

I've already addressed this, but it keeps coming up.....

Lee is talking about using OTHER peoples issues to address his own...it won't fly in court (if it ever got there).

Using examples of OTHER people being disciplined or not disciplined for rules which have no direct correlation to your own case...would be irrelevant. One of Lee's examples was that some of the Female BBers have porn type websites, etc...and haven't been suspended. Whether this is true or not has NO BEARING on whether or not HE would be suspended for competing in a non-sanctioned show.

The only basis that would apply, is if HE were suspended and lets say, Vince Taylor was not for the same infraction....NOW you would have a point to present.

My final sentence explained exactly what you've said.
However, if an athlete has a signed contract to compete and he is not allowed to by the IFBB, can he sue the promoter for breach of contract if the contract does not include a reference to the rules?

[Disgusted]

I've already addressed this, but it keeps coming up.....

Lee is talking about using OTHER peoples issues to address his own...it won't fly in court (if it ever got there).

Using examples of OTHER people being disciplined or not disciplined for rules which have no direct correlation to your own case...would be irrelevant. One of Lee's examples was that some of the Female BBers have porn type websites, etc...and haven't been suspended. Whether this is true or not has NO BEARING on whether or not HE would be suspended for competing in a non-sanctioned show.

The only basis that would apply, is if HE were suspended and lets say, Vince Taylor was not for the same infraction....NOW you would have a point to present.

Not so Bob, it could very well lead to prejudice and or bias. They have selectively used the rules enforcing and not enforcing as they saw fit to do.

[jwb]

Let's face it if someone turns up to compete at a show where the IFBB has hired the venue nothing is stopping them from having them thrown out of the building by security if they want. They are paying the bills and are in charge.

After the fact that person could try sueing but the IFBB have way deeper pockets and experience than any pro has regarding legal matters.

Lee may have signed an Olympia contract but that was before he broke IFBB rules by signing with another organisation.

Lee would lose in court IMO since the rules to pros are clearly set out. What has happened in the past regarding enforcement or non-enforcement wouldn't really have any bearing on things to a judge. All that matters is that the rule was in place when he broke it (which they can prove easily) and that when he does break it they notify him of the infringement in writing and say they are enforcing the enfringement.

The executive council's decision would be final plain and simple since it's their organisation to run as they see fit.

They even have clauses in the constitution about this...


1.5 Interpretation:
It is recognized that the Rules cannot encompass every possible
situation wherein written guidance might be sought in the
resolution of an issue. In such cases, the President has sole
authority to interpret any matter arising out of the Rules, or any
matter not encompassed by the Rules, said interpretation to be
final and binding.
1.6 Intent:
It is not intended that the Rules be considered as "cast in stone"
but instead, as guidelines. Each and every issue arising out of the
Rules must be judged on its own merits with the primary
consideration given to that which is in the best interests of the
sport of Bodybuilding.

Now if Jay Cutler said he wanted to do the PDI and the Olympia then it would get very interesting...

[Hugo Chavez]

Why are you so rude and profane?  in real life, when someone disagrees with you, do you act like such a fool?  I'm being good here now, and I'm arguing seriously here.  

Yes in real life when I encounter extremely annoying buttheads I am usually rude and profane to them.  Yes even when they're bigger than me and yes it has gotten me in deeper than I like a few times.  But that's just me you stupid A-hole.

[240 is Back]

Yes in real life when I encounter extremely annoying buttheads I am usually rude and profane to them.  Yes even when they're bigger than me and yes it has gotten me in deeper than I like a few times.  But that's just me you stupid A-hole.

stalker.

[Hugo Chavez]

stalker.

Jackass.

[Chick]

My final sentence explained exactly what you've said.
However, if an athlete has a signed contract to compete and he is not allowed to by the IFBB, can he sue the promoter for breach of contract if the contract does not include a reference to the rules?

Exactly, Kev....

No, he could not sue the promoter ,since the promoter has agreed to abide by the rules set forth by the IFBB when he paid his sanction fee...the contract merely states that the competitor will compete in said show...the show still falls under IFBB rules and rgs.

[240 is Back]

imagine if any other sport operated like this...

weiders are like team owners, they're millionaires. the Bbers are the basketball players...

imagine the NBA players, earning $250 a week.  Selling dope, hanging out on GetTall.com all day bashing each other... The games getting cancelled now and then... man, that would rule...

[Disgusted]

Let's face it if someone turns up to compete at a show where the IFBB has hired the venue nothing is stopping them from having them thrown out of the building by security if they want. They are paying the bills and are in charge.

After the fact that person could try sueing but the IFBB have way deeper pockets and experience than any pro has regarding legal matters.

Lee may have signed an Olympia contract but that was before he broke IFBB rules by signing with another organisation.

Lee would lose in court IMO since the rules to pros are clearly set out. What has happened in the past regarding enforcement or non-enforcement wouldn't really have any bearing on things to a judge. All that matters is that the rule was in place when he broke it (which they can prove easily) and that when he does break it they notify him of the infringement in writing and say they are enforcing the enfringement.

The executive council's decision would be final plain and simple since it's their organisation to run as they see fit.

They even have clauses in the constitution about this...


1.5 Interpretation:
It is recognized that the Rules cannot encompass every possible
situation wherein written guidance might be sought in the
resolution of an issue. In such cases, the President has sole
authority to interpret any matter arising out of the Rules, or any
matter not encompassed by the Rules, said interpretation to be
final and binding.
1.6 Intent:
It is not intended that the Rules be considered as "cast in stone"
but instead, as guidelines. Each and every issue arising out of the
Rules must be judged on its own merits with the primary
consideration given to that which is in the best interests of the
sport of Bodybuilding.

Now if Jay Cutler said he wanted to do the PDI and the Olympia then it would get very interesting...

If you think that the IFBB selectively banning some guys and not others would not be an issue in court you're wrong! Show me in the rule book about what it says concerning competing in another organization. By the way, I didn't think, but I could be wrong that PDI was an org.

[240 is Back]

PDI is a sports entertainment company.
IFBB is a Canadian nonprofit org.

[jwb]

If you think that the IFBB selectively banning some guys and not others would not be an issue in court you're wrong! Show me in the rule book about what it says concerning competing in another organization. By the way, I didn't think, but I could be wrong that PDI was an org.

So your theory is that they can't be banned because the PDI is a company and the IFBB is a sports organisation?

Who knows...

I guess one thing from a court's point of view is whether the organisations are recognised by the government of the country where the suit would be heard (ie. the united states) as organisers of the said sport. Most sports have a government acknowledged body that runs them.

Is the IFBB even recognised by the US goverment or is the sport of bodybuilding even recognised by the US goverment?

As i've said before if the PDI wants to tow the "we're a company" line then they should be paying thses guys a monthly salary to perform a service for said company (ie. promote and compete in their show) with the prize money being performance bonuses.

I think the whole thing is very interesting...

[Hedgehog]

imagine if any other sport operated like this...

weiders are like team owners, they're millionaires. the Bbers are the basketball players...

imagine the NBA players, earning $250 a week.  Selling dope, hanging out on GetTall.com all day bashing each other... The games getting cancelled now and then... man, that would rule...

I thought that everybody finally agreed on that the Weiders weren't "pulling the strings" in pro BB, and haven't been for the last 10 years?

YIP
Zack

[240 is Back]

I thought that everybody finally agreed on that the Weiders weren't "pulling the strings" in pro BB, and haven't been for the last 10 years?

YIP
Zack

nah, they're filling diapers and arguing about 1950's boxers these days.  but they still have all the money.

[jwb]

One thing we need to realize is that nobody outside the sport (or even the majority inside really...) do or have ever really cared about the way the IFBB runs things.

Sure they complain about lots of stuff.

But does anybody really believe Lee Preist will bother spending the money it takes to sue the IFBB not to mention the time and stress involved with it all. Don't forget if he loses he could be up for various costs on top of his lawyers fees.

Kamali could do it because he has the cash behind him and is an angry little man but I doubt Lee will bother. Sueing the IFBB would cost a packet to win.

In the end he'll have played right into Wayne's hands since he can say "oh well now you can just compete for me instead dude"

Wayne WANTS Lee to have no choice but to rely on HIS show/s. This is the way wayne has operated for 30 years...

[240 is Back]

But does anybody really believe Lee Preist will bother spending the money it takes to sue the IFBB not to mention the time and stress involved with it all. Don't forget if he loses he could be up for various costs on top of his lawyers fees.

Kamali could do it because he has the cash behind him and is an angry little man but I doubt Lee will bother. Sueing the IFBB would cost a packet to win.

In the end he'll have played right into Wayne's hands since he can say "oh well now you can just compete for me instead dude"

Wayne WANTS Lee to have no choice but to rely on HIS show/s. This is the way wayne has operated for 30 years...

Just my opinion, but Lee might not be the only one suing, and he might have a backer in the PDI.. Hell, they may see it as fighting for ALL IFBB guys to have the right to compete in both.

I dunno what DeMilia's longterm intentions are... but... I do know that he is making it very clear that 1) The PDI is different from the IFBB- diff standards, etc, and 2) He says guys should be able to do both divisions and have as many shots at $ as possible.

maybe a monoploy is in the plans, who knows.  if so, I'll be building sites for the BGI (Big Guts, Inc.) athletes in a year or two

[Chick]

Just my opinion, but Lee might not be the only one suing, and he might have a backer in the PDI.. Hell, they may see it as fighting for ALL IFBB guys to have the right to compete in both.

I dunno what DeMilia's longterm intentions are... but... I do know that he is making it very clear that 1) The PDI is different from the IFBB- diff standards, etc, and 2) He says guys should be able to do both divisions and have as many shots at $ as possible.

maybe a monoploy is in the plans, who knows.  if so, I'll be building sites for the BGI (Big Guts, Inc.) athletes in a year or two

Not all guys in the IFBB want to compete in the PDI...actually, few have expressed interest, and word has it, the few who have are having second thoughts.