Serious Drug question.

[GetItOnNY]

No GABA is nothing like GHB .Yes they both raise GH levels, but GHB is a euphoric Gaba does not give you a buzz.Plus GHB if you take to much has been shown to lower GH levels if abused.Gaba is Gamma Aminobutric Acid, which derived from amino acids, and helps the pituitary naturally create more growth Hormone.GHB, is made from 2 ingredients, Gammabutlylactone, and caustic soda.Gamabutylactone is a drilling lubricant, and a solvent .So they sound similar but are totally diffrent

[timfogarty]

A good American Compound pharmacy is Pharma-Tech.No they dont have a web-site,they only deal with Doctors and Pro athletes.

I did not ask for a name of a compound pharmacy, but to explain the term Compound Pharmacy.  I did a search, and found you mean Compounding Pharmacy

http://lungdiseases.about.com/od/inthenewslungdiseases/a/compound_pharm_4.htm

An American compounding pharmacy manufacturing anabolic steroids would certainly get the attention of the FDA and DEA.

I was in the natural seen for 12 years, and won the Natural World, Natural International, 3rd in natural universe, and 3rd in Muscle Mania Pro.

MuscleMemory is your friend

[GetItOnNY]

I know what compounding Pharmacies do, lol

I also know about Muscle Memory , so whats your point?

[honest]

240   enlighten me who gh15 is then, i think getitonNY has got it quite right from my experiance and comaradery with some pros sure theres the big users who stick out like dog balls battling their genetics, the tituses and Kamalis, but most guys that look good arent using 5000mgs per week, and so much for all the igf bullshit, nearly every pro i know is using it, its much more stable than a few years ago especially the receptor grade, most off season pros will use test only off season with HGH and lately IGF as well and depending on whos coaching them insulin.
And for the record Jay dont use much at all, hes on the lower end of the scale dosage wise, dosages today are down, due to the cheaper HGH price and IGF, you dont need a ton of anabolics anymore, the combo of test hgh and igf will grow you like a weed, the top 6 in most shows takes less than the last 6 its genetics if your on 5000mgs per week and not pushing the olympia retire your shit.

[Van_Bilderass]

An American compounding pharmacy manufacturing anabolic steroids would certainly get the attention of the FDA and DEA.

gh15 was right, some type of UG operation, no legit compounding pharmacy. And if it is true it was real smart of NY to drop the name as well as Jay Cutlers name in connection to it! What a genious.

GetItOnNY you talk about science and then talk about using velvet Deer Antler and Tribulus to raise test. LMFAO I can see why you think Gamma-O is good stuff as well.

[240 is Back]

240   enlighten me who gh15 is then, i think getitonNY has got it quite right from my experiance and comaradery with some pros sure theres the big users who stick out like dog balls battling their genetics, the tituses and Kamalis, but most guys that look good arent using 5000mgs per week, and so much for all the igf bullshit, nearly every pro i know is using it, its much more stable than a few years ago especially the receptor grade, most off season pros will use test only off season with HGH and lately IGF as well and depending on whos coaching them insulin.
And for the record Jay dont use much at all, hes on the lower end of the scale dosage wise, dosages today are down, due to the cheaper HGH price and IGF, you dont need a ton of anabolics anymore, the combo of test hgh and igf will grow you like a weed, the top 6 in most shows takes less than the last 6 its genetics if your on 5000mgs per week and not pushing the olympia retire your shit.

obviously i can't reveal a name, but he is an ifbb pro.  I don't know a ton about gear use, so i certianly have no idea about the validity of either argument.  but he runs a company and he competes as an ifbb pro.  i do konw that for a fact.

[Adam Empire]

I seem to remember GetitonNY having quite a bit of knowledge in a past thread (one about chemical make-ups, formulas, etc).  I think what we have here is a BBer (perhaps a pro) vs a chemist educated BBer...

[timfogarty]

obviously i can't reveal a name, but he is an ifbb pro. 

sure you can.  I think everyone should use their real names on forums.  stand by your words with your name

[I ETA PI]

obviously i can't reveal a name, but he is an ifbb pro.  I don't know a ton about gear use, so i certianly have no idea about the validity of either argument.  but he runs a company and he competes as an ifbb pro.  i do konw that for a fact.

Competes?  You mean "competed."  Right.  He's hasn't exactly been getting on stage lately.

[GetItOnNY]

Van ,research does not lie.In clinical studies, if the Velvet Deer Antler, and Tribulus are infact" real," which most on the market arent, does raise your " natural " testosterone levlels.The 2 key words are real, and natural No tribulus and Velvet Deer Antler isnt nealry as strong as steroids, but it can enhance natural testosterone levlels to alot higher then they normally are.Another product you question is Gamma Orozinal .Like I said before if the Gamma Orozinal is infact real and not from China it also can raise natural testosterone levels.The said truth is alot of supplements get a bad rap because alot of companies either use junk raw materials or dont put any of what they say is in the product at all .If in fact the supplement and the company are legit, there are alot of natural supplements that work quite well.Example Ephedra is all natural and its one of the best fat burners ever made, and it gives a person a ton of energy.No natural supplements will never match steroids but they alot safer, and they will give a person decent results

[DK II]

Competes?  You mean "competed."  Right.  He's hasn't exactly been getting on stage lately.

Dorian Yates! Look out for british spelling in his posts!

[Van_Bilderass]

Van ,research does not lie.In clinical studies, if the Velvet Deer Antler, and Tribulus are infact" real," which most on the market arent, does raise your " natural " testosterone levlels.The 2 key words are real, and natural

THEN SHOW ME THE STUDY! In fact a fairly recent study on Sopharma tribulus terrestris (a high quality real extract) showed NO effect on test, LH etc. It's all BS!
You have ZERO credibility at this point AFAIAC. You wont be able to show any legit research either of these work.

[GetItOnNY]

It depends where the Tribulus comes from.The Bulgarian Tribulus is the best, the rest is garbage.I dont know what research you have done but if you truly did reasearch you would know that real tribulus can show a false positive on a urine test.Most of the Tribulus on the market today is from China, so yes it is junk, but if you get the real stuff, its pretty strong.The tribulus im talking about naturally contains atleast 45% steroidal sponins, naturally occuring .

[240 is Back]

Competes?  You mean "competed."  Right.  He's hasn't exactly been getting on stage lately.

he competed in a spg 06 show.  sheesh lol... PM the guy and ask him.

[Van_Bilderass]

It depends where the Tribulus comes from.The Bulgarian Tribulus is the best, the rest is garbage.I dont know what research you have done but if you truly did reasearch you would know that real tribulus can show a false positive on a urine test.Most of the Tribulus on the market today is from China, so yes it is junk, but if you get the real stuff, its pretty strong.The tribulus im talking about naturally contains atleast 45% steroidal sponins, naturally occuring .

WTF kind of an answer is this? Where is your evidence for your claims of increased test? I was talking of premium bulgarian tribulus... ever heard of the drug company SOPHARMA? Sopharma makes Tribestan, by all accounts a high quality extract. Sopharma is a real pharmaceutical company unlike the companies selling tribulus in the states. And no, Tribulus will not cause a false positive on a test.
Please show me one single example of anyone who failed a test due to tribulus. You are talking out of your ass.

Here, take a look:

J Ethnopharmacol. 2005 Oct 3;101(1-3):319-23.
 
The aphrodisiac herb Tribulus terrestris does not influence the androgen production in young men.

Neychev VK, Mitev VI.

Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry, Medical University, 2 Zdrave str., Sofia-1431, Bulgaria. neychev@dir.bg

OBJECTIVE: The aim of the current study is to investigate the influence of Tribulus terrestris extract on androgen metabolism in young males. DESIGN AND METHODS: Twenty-one healthy young 20-36 years old men with body weight ranging from 60 to 125 kg were randomly separated into three groups-two experimental (each n=7) and a control (placebo) one (n=7). The experimental groups were named TT1 and TT2 and the subjects were assigned to consume 20 and 10 mg/kg body weight per day of Tribulus terrestris extract, respectively, separated into three daily intakes for 4 weeks. Testosterone, androstenedione and luteinizing hormone levels in the serum were measured 24 h before supplementation (clear probe), and at 24, 72, 240, 408 and 576 h from the beginning of the supplementation. RESULTS: There was no significant difference between Tribulus terrestris supplemented groups and controls in the serum testosterone (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 15.75+/-1.75 nmol/l); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 16.32+/-1.57 nmol/l); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 17.74+/-1.09 nmol/l) (p>0.05)), androstenedione (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 1.927+/-0.126 ng/ml); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 2.026+/-0.256 ng/ml); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 1.952+/-0.236 ng/ml) (p>0.05)) or luteinizing hormone (TT1 (mean+/-S.D.: 4.662+/-0.274U/l); TT2 (mean+/-S.D.: 4.103+/-0.869U/l); controls (mean+/-S.D.: 4.170+/-0.406U/l) (p>0.05)) levels. All results were within the normal range. The findings in the current study anticipate that Tribulus terrestris steroid saponins possess neither direct nor indirect androgen-increasing properties. The study will be extended in the clarifying the probable mode of action of Tribulus terrestris steroid saponins.

If you have proof of the contrary, like you claim, post it or shut your mouth.

[Van_Bilderass]

Van ,research does not lie.

Yes, by all means, post the "research".

[GetItOnNY]

Van if you do your research, which you seem to do.You will see that the German and Bulgarian Olympic lifting teams both used Androstene Dione, and Tribulus in the 1970's.Thats how they kept there gains when they come off of steroids ,plus it is harder to detect.Andro and Tribulus have been around along time, and if they are both real they can be quite potent

[Van_Bilderass]

Van if you do your research, which you seem to do.You will see that the German and Bulgarian Olympic lifting teams both used Androstene Dione, and Tribulus in the 1970's.Thats how they kept there gains when they come off of steroids ,plus it is harder to detect.Andro and Tribulus have been around along time, and if they are both real they can be quite potent

Van if you do your research, which you seem to do.You will see that the German and Bulgarian Olympic lifting teams both used Androstene Dione, and Tribulus in the 1970's.Thats how they kept there gains when they come off of steroids ,plus it is harder to detect.Andro and Tribulus have been around along time, and if they are both real they can be quite potent

The old research from Russia and Bulgaria and other eastern block countries is a bit suspect to say the least. Some very respected authorities have said that there was a lot of outright fake research coming out of these countries wrt herbs such as tribulus and ecdysterone etc. Not to mention most of the studies are on rats. I'm not sure what the reason was but IIRC it had something to do with government grants, the studies had to be successful.

Now androstenedione is a hormone and it was used as a nasal spray for it's psychotropic effects and for evading drug tests. I can't remember any research on herbals coming out of Germany though.

I take a bunch of herbal supplements myself for different applications but I have not seen any evidence for any herbal on increasing testosterone output significantly. Some herbs may reduce SHBG. Tribulus I think works it's "magic" by affecting nitric oxide levels. A lot of anecdotal reports say it boosts libido but that is NOT the same as increasing test levels.

[GetItOnNY]

Van its seems like you have dont your home work , thats good.There are alot of natural ways to raise your natural testosterone levels.There alot of junk products out there like MethoxyIsolflavone, and Beta Ectosterone, which is pure junk.But there are things like Longfolia -Eurocomia Jack -Lonfellow Jack, Yohimbine, Velvet Deer Antler Bulgarian Tribulus ,Muira Puima , Maca just to name a few.Of course if you stacked them all together it would work best.I admit Tribulus by itself is okay, but if taken with Longfolia, or Andorstene it really kicks in.Its kind of Like 1+1= 3.They work decently alone but they are 3 times more effective when taking together, kind of like anabolics.Herbs are not as strong as anabolics, and never will be, but they can help out the natural athlete.Not everyone wants to take anabolics so natural testosterone boosters are there only choice.No there not going to make you ripped at 280 lbs, but they can add up to 10 % on your size and lifts, which isnt bad

[mwbbuilder]

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[gh15]

i think that van is the smartest most knowledgable person on the board of getbig and on the internet bodybuilding forums in general ,,,just so you know

[Special Ed]

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