Vince Taylor out of the PDI & into the Olympia

[Vince B]

I forgot to mention Keith Jones as another guy who is brave enough to tell it like it is. I remember Dave Draper being in the magazines all the time in the 60's. Well, he wasn't paid enough by the Weiders and was going to take them to court for compensation. Dave apparently settled before the court case for way less than he deserved. Just another guy who should have made more out of the sport. If stars like Dave and Sergio made peanuts then what about the rest of the guys? Zabo knew there was no pot of gold for most guys. Arnold made most of his money from real estate then the movies and not bodybuilding.

I look at the big guys in the gyms doing their thing and being he-men. However, when they compete they kiss butt big time because they know that is required. I think it is pathetic. In Australia we have Paul Graham running things like Ben does in Canada. I tell guys from my gym to say they train anywhere but at my gym if they want to do well in Paul's contests. Paul scored me 25 out of 100 in 1975 in my last contest. Arnold put me down, too. Jerks like them succeeded despite what they did to others while those of us who were honest struggled to make a living. I will never kiss butt and I always tell the truth. I detest distorting or trying to change reality. I also insist on justice and fairness in my dealings and expect that from others but am often let down or disappointed.

In the sport of bodybuilding look at what Joe and Ben have done to the sport. Joe and Bob Hoffman used to write glowing editorials about how great they were. I haven't been impressed by the legacy either has left. Arnold owes bodybuilding for making a name for himself but has done almost nothing for the sport. Who would have imagined that Dianabol would be a banned drug like heroin? What on earth are those dopes who make laws thinking? On the other hand no amount of legislation is going to rid drugs from bodybuilding if we let the IFBB do what they do. They are terrified of anyone else taking over the sport. That is why they will be ruthless. They have done bad things in the past to Dan Lurie and others. So what is going to prevent them from sabotaging Wayne's effort. Surely bodybuilders deserve something better for all the training and sacrifices they make. I don't mean in monetary terms. Just prestige and fairness and rewards for building muscle. As long as we reward those with breasts and no muscle in their calves then we deserve what we get. I say we should overthrow the IFBB and start again. However, look at most bodybuilders today. They are so meek and trained they don't say boo. In 1975 I voiced an opinion at the Mr Australia contest that Roger Walker had already won and shouldn't be able to win again. They set that precedent in America so that John Grimek wouldn't win every year. Not one person backed me up. Arnold was there and spoke out against me. What a jerk. He and Paul Graham fixed the contest by voting me so low that I placed last. I am still not happy about what they did then. Neither has ever apologized.

So I well know the disappointment that many feel when losing contests or placing far below what they deserve. I predicted what would happen to Bev Francis but she abandoned us and did her own thing to get a trip to go to America. The lesson of Bev is that this sport involves politics. Arnold knew that and quickly became buddies with all the judges and did shows for them, etc. In 1980 those same judges placed him first in Australia at the Olympia. Arnold was smart. He knew what was required to win. Namely, you had to get the judges vote and often you can help do that in many ways. Befriend them, or help the promoter choose the judges! Heck, what am I talking about. I helped choose the judges in the Mr Canada contest I won in 1970. I picked guys who were my enemies as well. They didn't put me first but the criteria of selection was to pick guys who were experienced and who could make up their own minds about who should win and not be influenced by other judges. I made sure there were enough judges and we had 13 in that show. I got 8 votes and Ken who came second got 5 votes. Some people booed when the result was announced and I could understand that. Ken Rivard had a superior upper body but his legs let him down. I got the vote of Chuck Sipes who posed that night so I felt okay. Oh, I forgot to say I took Chuck to the beach on the day either before or on the contest day. Ah, I guess I did stuff like Arnold did. Sort of funny now. I still haven't heard anyone who won a contest say they didn't deserve it.

Thanks to the guys here who appreciate some of what I have been saying.

[onlyme]

Thanks Vince.  I just don't like the way either bigger guys take advantage of little guys or big companies take advantage of little companies.  And I especially hate it when people who are in charge hide behind others that do there dirty work.  That pisses me off more than anything.  Be a man and take hits along with the praises.  I hate it how Weider hides and Manion hides.  I like how Chic speaks his mind most of the time but I totally disagree with his loyalty.  That association with people like that reflect on your own personality and persona.  And the worst thing is he doesn't get paid and if he does and just doesn't tell us it isn't worth it. 

[jwb]

I think there have been fewer organised conspiracies than many people think in regards to the IFBB (and I think they are a bunch of assholes trust me).

A lot of what has appeared covert has been more due to laziness and a general "we don't give a shit" attitude about training judges properly and the like which is sad.

Having said that bodybuilders need to think for themselves and not be so naive as to expect the federation to look after them. There just simply isn't the money in this sport for that to happen.

If football was a fringe sport do you think they'd be a powerful player's union or as many benefits as there are? no way jose...

[jwb]

Wayne in no way, shape or form will sue Vince Taylor...

A. Vince has no money to go after

B. The contract language is so grey, it would never stand

C. Vince never sent in the required fee

D. (and most importantly)

It would be a P.R. nightmare for Wayne to sue/ suspend, etc...when the very subject he takes the most heat for is/ was suspending and fining athletes when he was with the IFBB...He is alledgedly looking out for the athleets best interests, you think sueing a guy that is struggling to make ends meet would look good and set a example of things to come?

Wayne best move would be to wish Vince the best, and say the door is always open for a return...

exactly what i said yesterday when i read that "contract"

wayne won't do shit to vince...

[Lee_a_priest]

Yeah...I could be wrong, but I believe you were on AFTER you pulled out...other question is...why did you sign it and send it in if you had such a big problem with it?

Why are you willing to sign it THIS year...?

HELLO MCFLY WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN ?YOU HAVE ASKED THAT BEFORE AND I HAVE ANSWERED MANY TIMES.gO BACK AND READ

[Lee_a_priest]

I don't defend it...I explain it.

It's the same concept as not being allowed to play for the Yankees and the Mets at the same time, difference being, were not directly paid by the IFBB...you agree to abide by these rules when you sign up...if you don't like the rules , no one is forcing the athletes to join...they are free to go join any other federation in existence where they do allow athletes to compete where ever...

NO THE YANKEES OR THE METS PAY THEIR PLAYERS.WHAT DOES THE IFBB PAY US MONTHLY OR WEEKLY $000000

[littleguns]

Yes?

[Hedgehog]

One thing's for shure...






Lee always shows up in shape.



YIP
Zack

[G o a t b o y]

I don't defend it...I explain it.

It's the same concept as not being allowed to play for the Yankees and the Mets at the same time, difference being, were not directly paid by the IFBB...you agree to abide by these rules when you sign up...if you don't like the rules , no one is forcing the athletes to join...they are free to go join any other federation in existence where they do allow athletes to compete where ever...

Big difference... the Yankees PAY their players, and are their employer. The analogy doesn't hold water. Federations who do not provide their members with an income should have no right to limit their memembers' income from other sources.  The whole "you're free to join or not join" sounds good in theory, but when the reality is you have to compete in the IFBB to make a living due to their monopoly practices, the "freedom" doesn't really exist, does it?  Kinda like the old AT&T told everyone "you're free to buy phone service from us or anyone else or not" back when they were a monopoly, and right before they got broken up in an anti-trust ruling.

[Lift Studios]

One thing's for shure...

Lee always shows up in shape.

YIP
Zack

shure about that? "always"? 15th at the 2003 Olympia...

 

[ribonucleic]

shure about that? "always"? 15th at the 2003 Olympia...

Needed a haircut.

[jwb]

shure about that? "always"? 15th at the 2003 Olympia...

 

low blow... aside from that appearance lee has been a fantastically conditioned guy for the last 12-13 years

[sgt. d]

HELLO MCFLY WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN ?YOU HAVE ASKED THAT BEFORE AND I HAVE ANSWERED MANY TIMES.gO BACK AND READ

why should we take you serious, you joked about a innocent woman burned in a car

what if that happen to your daughter, and i laughed

[gatrainer]

Needed a haircut.

his long hair creates the illusion of his legs being smooth

[legbreaker]

Remember something...the guys that came in 16th and lower WISH they were in that shape.  Keep it in proper perspective.  The one thing about being a TOP BB is that your judged on your last BEST shape and always expected to be better.

For example...If Ronnie did not show up in HIS best shape BUT still better than Jay and Jay shows up improving his last shape BUT NOT better than Ronnie some would give the title to jay.  That is ridiculous. 

Anyway, I know you were just pointing out something but he wasn't off season like just not as good as other shows.

[OneMoreRep]

why should we take you serious, you joked about a innocent woman burned in a car

what if that happen to your daughter, and i laughed

Why don't you get a sense of humor?  Who cares if an innocent woman dies in a burning car, sergeant slaughter?  If you're a soldier, you know that the U.S. Military kills thousands of innocent people and although a tragedy, I laugh at that shit too.

Laugh, it's good for you...

1

[Chick]

NICE POST   Go ahead and answer PUPPET MASTER CHICK   STOP DELETING MY POST ANSWER THE QUESTIONS

It was answered 3 pages ago, genius...






   
   
Re: Vince Taylor out of the PDI & into the Olympia
« Reply #272 on: July 17, 2006, 10:37:18 PM »
   Quote Modify Remove
Quote from: OneMoreRep on July 17, 2006, 10:09:56 PM
Chic,

Some other guy in here asked these questions, how about you answer?

CHic since you are the IFBB rep answer these;

1.  What kind of retirement fund does the IFBB provide or have in place for their members
A. none

2.  What kind of insurance does the IFBB provide
A. none...the Athletes rep has secured Group Health Ins. for IFBB members who wan't it.

3.  What is the minimum pay in the IFBB
A. There is no pay, as a member you are listed as an independant contractor

4.  What kind of legal representation does the IFBB provide each member in case of non-payment or any other issue reagrding competition, sponsorship etc.
A. the IFBB has legal consul which can be used for such purposes, other than that, athletes can contact their rep for solutions to problems.

5.  What sponsorhsips do the IFBB provide the members
A. none directly... indirectly,they offer a platform and exposure via their magazines which have led to many athletes securing contracts including myself.

6.  How many IFBB pros are on the Board of Directors
A. no active members that I know of.

7.  Who are the regional representatives for the IFBB members or are youtheir only rep worldwide
A. there is no need for "regional" reps...there is one for each respective division.

8.  Does the IFBB provide insurance to it's members when on photo shoots or any other apperance where they are representing the IFBB.
A. The IFBB does not provide insurance, Insurance is available via the PTA in accordance with the business deal set up with the athletes rep on behalf of the IFBB athletes.

9.  When is the voting for the Board of Directors
A. Don't know

10. Since the IFBB doesn't allow members to make money outside of IFBB sponsored events, do they pay the members anything to offset what they are missing out at shows they could be working or appearing.
A. no

11. Does the IFBB pay the members who appear in magazines for their likeness.
A. No, Weider/AMI does.

12. What type of profit-sharing does the IFBB offer its members
A. None...last I knew the IFBB is a non profit organization.

13. What kind of residual payments do IFBB members get for use of their pictures or likeness in publications, tapes, DVD or other material.  And if not, does the IFBB provide a tracking system for the members so that they can track their usage and charge whoever accordingly
A. none, the IFBB doesn't have a publication, sell tapes or DVD's.

14. I know their is a rule in the IFFB rules stating no drug use.  DO the have an annual date they test all the members or do they provide the cost of testing to each member so they can get tested.  How do they enforce this rule.  (P.S. we all knwo they put this rule in only so that organizations like the IOC would even talk to them.  There was never any intention to enforce it.  It was put in place to fullfill certain requirements by other federations and organizations)
A. Guess you already have the answer


I'll fire the same questions back to you, Keith...just insert "PDI" where IFBB is.

[jwb]

I don't agree on with Bob on everything (some yes, some no) but I have to applaud his patience on these boards sometimes...

[dr.chimps]

I'll fire the same questions back to you, Keith...just insert "PDI" where IFBB is.

Moral relativism at its best. *sigh* You need to look into taking a course in logic from the Jesuits, Chick. It'll put some real backbone in your arguments. People may still think you are full of it, but your chain of reason will at least be compulsive.   

[onlyme]

It was answered 3 pages ago, genius...






   
   
Re: Vince Taylor out of the PDI & into the Olympia
« Reply #272 on: July 17, 2006, 10:37:18 PM »
   Quote Modify Remove
Quote from: OneMoreRep on July 17, 2006, 10:09:56 PM
Chic,



I'll fire the same questions back to you, Keith...just insert "PDI" where IFBB is.

My answsers are allot easier than yours to type.  NO for all.  But you have say the PDI does not have the bad image of ripping off their members or giving a false illusion of grandjeur.  Yet at least.  Hopefully never but..................... .

[ribonucleic]

Moral relativism at its best. *sigh* You need to look into taking a course in logic from the Jesuits, Chick.

A classic case of "ego sum purgamentum" reasoning - i.e. "I'm rubber and you're glue..."

[timfogarty]

Joe and Bob Hoffman used to write glowing editorials about how great they were.

No, they did not.  They were bitter enemies until the end.   lots of articles at MuscleMemory

[jwb]

No, they did not.  They were bitter enemies until the end.   lots of articles at MuscleMemory

I think you misread that tim.

he says they both wrote glowing articles about how good they themselves were not how great each other was...

[M75]

I have to applaud his patience on these boards sometimes...

Agreed. Bob does take a beating here and he still sticks around. I give him props for that. Most other pros would have tucked their tail and ran for the hills by now.

[Miss Karen]

Isn't the IFBB Democratic,I am sure they have judges from all over the world judge Mr Olympia and of cause they are all Pro Judges and hold a Pro judging card just like the athletes have to.Don't they?.