Author Topic: Vince Taylor out of the PDI & into the Olympia (Read 178271 times)

jwb · « **Reply #375 on:** July 18, 2006, 08:58:19 PM »

Quote from: Yev33 on July 18, 2006, 08:50:29 PM

I agree that aesthetic bodybuilding is the way to go, the problem is that it is very difficult to clearly define aesthetic. It means different things to different people, pretty much the only things that are fairly clear cut are size, conditioning, and proportion. And deep down inside I think that everyone can admit that Ronnie displays those three qualities better than anyone else in the world. Is it aesthetic? That's a whole different story.

ronnie at 98 mr O and 2001 Arnold is aesthetic... big but still has shape.

ronnie now is a blob most of the time...

Miss Karen · « **Reply #376 on:** July 18, 2006, 08:59:04 PM »

It's a shame but just think who wants to look at a bunch of big muscle men who are all drugged up covered in oil and posing for very very little money and most No money,posing and having trouble breathing.Wow IFBB is in some trouble in the future.The BBs are already in trouble.IMO.

Vince B · « **Reply #377 on:** July 18, 2006, 09:19:55 PM »

If the IFBB can run a fair contest with good criteria and the winner is the best guy there then that will be something to be proud of. From my out of touch position I read about the controversies every year at the Olympia and at many other contests. For example, what is the position re judging about the weighting to deduct for guys with bitch tits? Seems to me they should be disqualified. That might be an extreme position but why should guys with breasts or remnants of breasts win men's bodybuilding contests? What is more important in a contest, size or cuts? How do you weigh each of these components in judging? How should you score a guy who has no cuts in his calves? Answer: place him last. If a guy is cut up and has no cuts in his calves something major is wrong. I might need glasses to see my computer screen clearly but I can easily detect gynocomastia and lack of cuts in the calves. You talk about progress in bodybuilding. I haven't seen it. Why worry about bodybuilding being an entertainment when you have work to do re valid judging of contests. Beauty should be a component in judging but how on earth are you going to specify what that means? Why has the number of judges in the Olympia been so low over the years? Again, Ben discarded a good judging system in NAABA where they used more judges and did comparisons for the main part. No silly rounds standing front side and back. Heck, modern guys cannot even stand normally anymore. It is ludicrous and you are doing nothing to alter this. The idea that you can stand relaxed with your arms way out is plain ridiculous. Who enforces how bodybuilders should stand on stage. Disqualify cheaters and maybe your organization and the sport will be accepted and respected. Why should anyone respect the IFBB today despite the progress you claim to be part of?

Chick · « **Reply #378 on:** July 18, 2006, 09:26:22 PM »

Quote from: Vince Basile on July 18, 2006, 09:19:55 PM

If the IFBB can run a fair contest with good criteria and the winner is the best guy there then that will be something to be proud of. From my out of touch position I read about the controversies every year at the Olympia and at many other contests. For example, what is the position re judging about the weighting to deduct for guys with bitch tits? Seems to me they should be disqualified. That might be an extreme position but why should guys with breasts or remnants of breasts win men's bodybuilding contests? What is more important in a contest, size or cuts? How do you weigh each of these components in judging? How should you score a guy who has no cuts in his calves? Answer: place him last. If a guy is cut up and has no cuts in his calves something major is wrong. I might need glasses to see my computer screen clearly but I can easily detect gynocomastia and lack of cuts in the calves. You talk about progress in bodybuilding. I haven't seen it. Why worry about bodybuilding being an entertainment when you have work to do re valid judging of contests. Beauty should be a component in judging but how on earth are you going to specify what that means? Why has the number of judges in the Olympia been so low over the years? Again, Ben discarded a good judging system in NAABA where they used more judges and did comparisons for the main part. No silly rounds standing front side and back. Heck, modern guys cannot even stand normally anymore. It is ludicrous and you are doing nothing to alter this. The idea that you can stand relaxed with your arms way out is plain ridiculous. Who enforces how bodybuilders should stand on stage. Disqualify cheaters and maybe your organization and the sport will be accepted and respected. Why should anyone respect the IFBB today despite the progress you claim to be part of?

yikes!

Contoversy in bodybuilding? COME ON......!!!

Do you honestly think there is ANY order you could place the top 15 at a bodybuilding show and please everyone???

My mother thinks I should've won every show I've been in...where we going here, Vince?

Heres a newsflash for you, friend....bodybuilding judging is based on OPINION.

Vince B · « **Reply #379 on:** July 18, 2006, 09:29:06 PM »

To answer 'honest' re what is possible naturally. I wonder what the limits of natural size are? I would bet that with the knowledge coming out of exercise science labs that the potential to build huge muscles naturally has not been approached by anyone in recent years. So many get reasonably big then contaminate the enterprise by taking drugs. They lose any possibility of knowing what is responsible for their size.

In my opinion it should be possible to add a couple of inches to the arms and calves in two months. I am talking about guys like the magnificent Adonis. Not sure about 240 but what the heck, send him over! I don't do personal training but it would be an interesting project with two very motivated guys. I guarantee Adonis will have way bigger triceps.

When I was 58 I put an inch on my arms and about 1 1/4 inch on my calves in one month of training. Some of that was regaining former size. I got sore joints doing that and now know more so I can avoid getting injuries. At least I hope I can. I would like to see what is possible from training. I don't use or endorse any supplements at all. So this would be a real challenge for this experiment.

The contest stuff we can debate until the cows come home and still be unhappy. However, if we know how to get really big and keep growing naturally that will be wonderful information. That is the kind of progress an out of touch guy like me is interested in.

Vince B · « **Reply #380 on:** July 18, 2006, 09:38:26 PM »

I know how difficult it is to judge contests because I have judged plenty myself. We used to have annual contests at my gym and one year I was so disgusted with the judges that the next year decided to do the judging myself. That was more difficult than I thought it would be and I learned that is not the way to go. You need several opinions. Now, who selects the judges and on what criterion? How many judges should there be and what should the rules be? There are lots of things that can be done to improve the judging process. Especially since it is a subjective assessment. I thought about the possibility of having two judging panels. One live and the other in a room examining photos. They would make all the images the same size and then select the best from those images. The combined scores would be used to select the winner. I would never use the posedown for anything but entertainment. I think at most contests the posedown was an occasion when the judges scores could be added up. Why do they still score the posedown? Answer? To let errant judges correct their scores. Bodybuilding not only has to be fair but seen to be fair. Bev Francis should be awarded a Ms Olympia by the IFBB for unfairness to her in the past. It surely was a travesty of justice to her. There are others who deserved to win but were not awarded first place. The history of the Olympia is surely controversial. Even though Arnold put me down in a contest he judged I still would have placed him first at the 1980 Olympia in Sydney.

Yev33 · « **Reply #381 on:** July 18, 2006, 09:41:57 PM »

It's probably possible for a guy with extremely gifted genetics to be under 6' and weigh around 240lbs. in contest shape naturally. But I guarantee you that in order to do this his life will have to consist of only eating, sleeping, and training. Most bodybuilders starting out work at least 40hrs. a week which greatly cuts into recovery times.

jwb · « **Reply #382 on:** July 18, 2006, 09:42:34 PM »

vince you hate the gear but think bev should have been Ms O?

she was geared up way back when she was in track and field!

Chick · « **Reply #383 on:** July 18, 2006, 09:50:31 PM »

Quote from: Vince Basile on July 18, 2006, 09:29:06 PM

To answer 'honest' re what is possible naturally. I wonder what the limits of natural size are? I would bet that with the knowledge coming out of exercise science labs that the potential to build huge muscles naturally has not been approached by anyone in recent years. So many get reasonably big then contaminate the enterprise by taking drugs. They lose any possibility of knowing what is responsible for their size.

In my opinion it should be possible to add a couple of inches to the arms and calves in two months. I am talking about guys like the magnificent Adonis. Not sure about 240 but what the heck, send him over! I don't do personal training but it would be an interesting project with two very motivated guys. I guarantee Adonis will have way bigger triceps.

When I was 58 I put an inch on my arms and about 1 1/4 inch on my calves in one month of training. Some of that was regaining former size. I got sore joints doing that and now know more so I can avoid getting injuries. At least I hope I can. I would like to see what is possible from training. I don't use or endorse any supplements at all. So this would be a real challenge for this experiment.

The contest stuff we can debate until the cows come home and still be unhappy. However, if we know how to get really big and keep growing naturally that will be wonderful information. That is the kind of progress an out of touch guy like me is interested in.

The "magnificent Adonis"?

Now I know you're whacked.

Thanks for the input....

Vince B · « **Reply #384 on:** July 18, 2006, 09:52:34 PM »

Well, the use of steroids and other drugs was allowed in the past and still is allowed. Bev deserved to win one of those Ms Olympia contests. If there is no testing then that shouldn't be considered. Bev has never tested positive for using banned substances that I know of. Was she using? Well I imagine Gael and Bev and other athletes that Franz in Melbourne was training were using steroids. I remember them calling such things 'beans'!

It is clear that the evidence shows that drugs make a huge difference in the physiques that women can develop. However, some women have naturally cut and larger muscles so we have to be careful about who we say is using.

What I dislike about Bev's case is the blatant intention of Ben and the IFBB to prevent her from winning that contest. I think Ben's position was that Bev was not good for women's bodybuilding because she resembled a man. The ironical thing is Bev eventually had a nose job and breast implants and changed her posing but still didn't win that contest. I like Bev and respect her as a person. She is honest and fair and a good person. Feminine, too! Not sure I like her choice of a guy but what the heck that is her business.

jwb · « **Reply #385 on:** July 18, 2006, 09:53:17 PM »

Quote from: Chick on July 18, 2006, 09:50:31 PM

The "magnificent Adonis"?

Now I know you're whacked.

Thanks for the input....

keyboard error from laughing

Vince B · « **Reply #386 on:** July 18, 2006, 09:54:55 PM »

Hey, Chick, I have a sense of humour in case you didn't know. I like having guys like Adonis in my gym. They take the boredom out of that business. Dreamers are always going to be around gyms and Adonis is one of the best. We who know more should help aspiring heroes.

jwb · « **Reply #387 on:** July 18, 2006, 09:56:44 PM »

Quote from: Vince Basile on July 18, 2006, 09:52:34 PM

Well, the use of steroids and other drugs was allowed in the past and still is allowed. Bev deserved to win one of those Ms Olympia contests. If there is no testing then that shouldn't be considered. Bev has never tested positive for using banned substances that I know of. Was she using? Well I imagine Gael and Bev and other athletes that Franz in Melbourne was training were using steroids. I remember them calling such things 'beans'!

It is clear that the evidence shows that drugs make a huge difference in the physiques that women can develop. However, some women have naturally cut and larger muscles so we have to be careful about who we say is using.

What I dislike about Bev's case is the blatant intention of Ben and the IFBB to prevent her from winning that contest. I think Ben's position was that Bev was not good for women's bodybuilding because she resembled a man. The ironical thing is Bev eventually had a nose job and breast implants and changed her posing but still didn't win that contest. I like Bev and respect her as a person. She is honest and fair and a good person. Feminine, too! Not sure I like her choice of a guy but what the heck that is her business.

I think bev is great and should have won in 89 myself... before that cory was better.

in 83 she was unrefined. i think lori bowen looked great in that contest. muscle and sexy...

timfogarty · « **Reply #388 on:** July 18, 2006, 10:01:17 PM »

Quote from: Chick on July 18, 2006, 08:31:38 PM

You honestly think that if bodybuilders were clean and scaled down, the numbers of fans would INCREASE? Lolololol...We have those shows already, they're called "Natural shows", and they don't exactly sell the place out...they're not even supported by bodybuilding fans in general...family and friends, thats all.

there is a big difference between the natural contests and the distended stomachs of GH and Insulin. There are a lot of people who would likely attend contests (pro and top amateur) if it weren't for "that look" that you get from GH and Insulin.

jwb · « **Reply #389 on:** July 18, 2006, 10:06:15 PM »

Quote from: timfogarty on July 18, 2006, 10:01:17 PM

there is a big difference between the natural contests and the distended stomachs of GH and Insulin. There are a lot of people who would likely attend contests (pro and top amateur) if it weren't for "that look" that you get from GH and Insulin.

You tell them Timbo!!!

G o a t b o y · « **Reply #390 on:** July 18, 2006, 11:59:34 PM »

Quote from: sgt. d on July 18, 2006, 08:33:09 PM

just wondering, what does csn mft stand for?

CSN= "Cock Sucking Nobody"

Not sure about the "MFT". Maybe something to do with "mammaries"? $:-\$

honest · « **Reply #391 on:** July 19, 2006, 12:19:13 AM »

Vince wheres your gym in Sydney, im from Qld.

Vince B · « **Reply #392 on:** July 19, 2006, 12:24:25 AM »

Vince and Roz's Fitness World or V & R Fitness. We are at Meadowbank which is near Ryde and close to Meadowbank railway station and Meadowbank Tech. Email me if you want to catch up with me there because I usually am working on new machines at my factory. I will install the world's best chin/dip machine soon. Has a 375 pound weight stack on it to accommodate most individuals. Feels really good, too. This is a standing version and not one of those kneeling ones. OvinceZ@yahoo.com

Hedgehog · « **Reply #393 on:** July 19, 2006, 12:27:24 AM »

Quote from: Vince Basile on July 18, 2006, 09:52:34 PM

Well, the use of steroids and other drugs was allowed in the past and still is allowed. Bev deserved to win one of those Ms Olympia contests. If there is no testing then that shouldn't be considered. Bev has never tested positive for using banned substances that I know of. Was she using? Well I imagine Gael and Bev and other athletes that Franz in Melbourne was training were using steroids. I remember them calling such things 'beans'!

It is clear that the evidence shows that drugs make a huge difference in the physiques that women can develop. However, some women have naturally cut and larger muscles so we have to be careful about who we say is using.

What I dislike about Bev's case is the blatant intention of Ben and the IFBB to prevent her from winning that contest. I think Ben's position was that Bev was not good for women's bodybuilding because she resembled a man. The ironical thing is Bev eventually had a nose job and breast implants and changed her posing but still didn't win that contest. I like Bev and respect her as a person. She is honest and fair and a good person. Feminine, too! Not sure I like her choice of a guy but what the heck that is her business.

Dude, Bev Francis represents everything that is wrong with Female Bodybuilding.

It's a fcuking man.

Short recap: Bev Francis was the first mass monster that took the "Fe" out of Female Bodybuilding.

He paved the way, and if one athlete should be blamed for where Female bodybuilding is today, Bev Francis sure as hell makes a good case for it. He was horrendous in the late 80's/early 90's.

Either he or Kim Chievsky.

YIP
Zack

buffbodz · « **Reply #394 on:** July 19, 2006, 08:30:52 AM »

Quote from: Chick on July 16, 2006, 08:24:57 PM

Why do you comment on things you have no clue about?

This isn't backroom polotics, is it. We read the mags and all bodybuilding boards. When you started out you were touting health insurance as being one of your priorities. Wheres the insurance? Since JP and the rest of us fans would like to know what have you done for the athletes you represent. Since we have no clue, clue us. Where the ones who ultimately pay your salary through contest tickets, supps you endorse and other things like tee shirts and autographed pictures. Why treat us like dirt. Insulting fans is very immature, not your style. It's only going to come back and bite you.

ribonucleic · « **Reply #395 on:** July 19, 2006, 08:45:19 AM »

Quote from: G o a t b o y on July 18, 2006, 11:59:34 PM

CSN= "Cock Sucking Nobody"

Not sure about the "MFT". Maybe something to do with "mammaries"? $:-\$

Milk-Filled Titties.

Chick · « **Reply #396 on:** July 19, 2006, 08:51:45 AM »

Quote from: buffbodz on July 19, 2006, 08:30:52 AM

This isn't backroom polotics, is it. We read the mags and all bodybuilding boards. When you started out you were touting health insurance as being one of your priorities. Wheres the insurance? Since JP and the rest of us fans would like to know what have you done for the athletes you represent. Since we have no clue, clue us. Where the ones who ultimately pay your salary through contest tickets, supps you endorse and other things like tee shirts and autographed pictures. Why treat us like dirt. Insulting fans is very immature, not your style. It's only going to come back and bite you.

The insurance has been in place for 6 months, and has been posted many times.

The idiots get treated like dirt...the fans get treated with respect as always...there's a difference

buffbodz · « **Reply #397 on:** July 19, 2006, 08:51:57 AM »

Quote from: Chick on July 17, 2006, 10:50:35 AM

1. No one cares about YOUR opinion

2. I'm the IFBB Athletes rep, and thus welcome and create all kinds of opportunities for IFBB athletes...not every athlete in evey federation.

I must beg to differ. 240 calls a spade a spade. He, with a little schooling would make one of the best judges any organization has. No white washing and sweeping things under the carpet, thinking that if no one sees it, it will go away, NOT. You, above all others should be fighting to allow the IFBB athletes to make as much in their short carrears that they can. Weather it means competing in the PDI, WWE, TV and radio commercials or any other means to feed their family's without having to do what many must do just to keep the Wolf from busting down the door.

Chick · « **Reply #398 on:** July 19, 2006, 08:59:45 AM »

Quote from: buffbodz on July 19, 2006, 08:51:57 AM

I must beg to differ. 240 calls a spade a spade. He, with a little schooling would make one of the best judges any organization has. No white washing and sweeping things under the carpet, thinking that if no one sees it, it will go away, NOT. You, above all others should be fighting to allow the IFBB athletes to make as much in their short carrears that they can. Weather it means competing in the PDI, WWE, TV and radio commercials or any other means to feed their family's without having to do what many must do just to keep the Wolf from busting down the door.

As I've also stated numerous times...so far 1 guy has expressed an interest in competing in the PDI (if it has a show) ...Priest.

littleguns · « **Reply #399 on:** July 19, 2006, 09:13:04 AM »

Quote from: Chick on July 19, 2006, 08:59:45 AM

As I've also stated numerous times...so far 1 guy has expressed an interest in competing in the PDI (if it has a show) ...Priest.

Bob,

In all honesty though do you really think guys are going to come to you and ask to be able to compete in 2 feds? With no ramifications, blackballing etc etc? Cmon now....

Years ago the IFBB allowed WBFers back after paying a penalty but can you honestly say they were fairly judged upon there return to an IFBB stage? No way in hell.