Learning Thread *ISLAM*

[ToxicAvenger]

What I believe the bible states is that you MUST accept Christ as Savior to get to heaven.  A_joker10 may interpret that non-believers go to heaven, but I just don't see that.

We ALL ARE sinners, and no one is good enough to get in on their own w/o Christ getting them in.

stella what about the guy that lives on the north pole and dosen't know ANYTHING about any religion..but lives a good life?

in islam he goes to heaven...

where does he go in christianity?


and how can a baby be a sinner?

[Butterbean]

stella what about the guy that lives on the north pole and dosen't know ANYTHING about any religion..but lives a good life?

in islam he goes to heaven...

where does he go in christianity?

Toxy, I don't have an absolute answer for you on that one other than whatever God deems to happen to that person is right and just.

Some would say that if the person has never heard the gospel, then he has not ever "rejected" Christ and thus should go to heaven.

Some would say that since the scripture is clear that "no man comes to the Father except by [Jesus]" John 14:6  .........and "there is salvation in no one else...." Acts 14:12  etc etc.  that it is possible that Jesus will choose to "place" the person in heaven if that is His will.  According to this view, it's still Jesus getting him in.

Some would say that the person would go to hell.

I just don't really know the answer.  Sorry.

and how can a baby be a sinner?

In Genesis we see that Adam and Eve were created w/o sin.  Then when they sinned, sin entered the world and affected everything negatively.  Everything in the world has the taint of sin.  Even plants which we find incredibly beautiful today were probably once much, much more beautiful. 

So when babies are born, there is sin present.  Now, do babies that die go straight to heaven?  I truly believe YES!  This is evidenced by King David's baby that died and 2 Samuel 12:23:  "...now that he is dead, why should I fast?  Can I bring him back again?  I will go to him, but he will not return to me."

(Also, some people may equate the innocence of the child w/the "ignorance" of one that has not heard the gospel and figure they go to heaven)

[ToxicAvenger]

thanx for the answers Stella!

[a_joker10]

Original Sin,
Good discription Stella.

In the  catholic church even miscarrages have funeral rights.

http://beehive.thisiscornwall.co.uk/default.asp?WCI=SiteHome&ID=6403&PageID=74150

The official Catechism of the Catholic Church, while not failing to stress the paramount importance of baptism amid all these uncertainties, teaches that, “As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: ‘Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,’ allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism.” (1261)

This is a legitimate hope of salvation that must not be denied.

Toxic, Haider what is the stance for Musilms, on Abortion, Gay Marriage, and premartial sex.

[ToxicAvenger]

oh man..not very tolerant..dunn about abortion..i'm pro choice...hell i'm pro choice about EVERYTHING in life

teh gayness is forbidden
pre marital sex ..forbidden..i mean hell muslims make their women stand in the back during prayer cause the prayer includes bending over at one point and between  men and women they say a man is more likely to stare at a womans behind than a woman to do...soo def forbidden..

[Hedgehog]

Toxy, I don't have an absolute answer for you on that one other than whatever God deems to happen to that person is right and just.

Some would say that if the person has never heard the gospel, then he has not ever "rejected" Christ and thus should go to heaven.

Some would say that since the scripture is clear that "no man comes to the Father except by [Jesus]" John 14:6  .........and "there is salvation in no one else...." Acts 14:12  etc etc.  that it is possible that Jesus will choose to "place" the person in heaven if that is His will.  According to this view, it's still Jesus getting him in.

Some would say that the person would go to hell.

I just don't really know the answer.  Sorry.


In Genesis we see that Adam and Eve were created w/o sin.  Then when they sinned, sin entered the world and affected everything negatively.  Everything in the world has the taint of sin.  Even plants which we find incredibly beautiful today were probably once much, much more beautiful. 

So when babies are born, there is sin present.  Now, do babies that die go straight to heaven?  I truly believe YES!  This is evidenced by King David's baby that died and 2 Samuel 12:23:  "...now that he is dead, why should I fast?  Can I bring him back again?  I will go to him, but he will not return to me."

(Also, some people may equate the innocence of the child w/the "ignorance" of one that has not heard the gospel and figure they go to heaven)

You're quoting the Bible a lot here.

Remember that the Bible only has one part in it that is the direct words of God. The rest is written by unknowns, and different guys who were no closer to God than anyone else.

The Bible was put together at a Vatican Church meeting. Lots of people voted on what was to be included, and what was to be left out.

My point is, that with Christianity, the most important part is to interpret how Jesus lived his life, and what he wanted us to do. The rest, is merely a book, no more, no less.

It's not more holy than any kind of artifact that is created by Man in honor of God.

YIP
Zack

[Butterbean]

i mean hell muslims make their women stand in the back during prayer cause the prayer includes bending over at one point and between  men and women they say a man is more likely to stare at a womans behind than a woman to do...soo def forbidden..

Toxy, does the Qu'ran state that the man is more likely to stare at the booty and so it's forbidden?  Or is that more of an accepted tradition?

The official Catechism of the Catholic Church, while not failing to stress the paramount importance of baptism amid all these uncertainties, teaches that, “As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: ‘Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,’ allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism.” (1261)

a_joker10, do you believe that infant water baptism actually does anything for the infant?  Are you Catholic?  If so, what do you think about a Catholicism Learning thread that you could be the "educator" for?

I don't believe that water baptism for infants is scriptural.  IMO, the bible only teaches "believer's baptism."  ....but we could either start a water baptism thread or do the Learning thread if you'd like ....since we'll try to keep this one about Islam.

[a_joker10]

Actually I am Luthern,
I just like some aspects of the Roman Catholics.
I had a water baptism as this is part of my faith, but I kind of like people making an informed choice of God through confirmation at the minimum o adult baptism at the most.
Feel free to move this.

Haider, Is learning the written language of the Koran very important?
What is Haidth and how do they apply to the Koran. Which takes presidence. Who sets the laws?
In christianity, english versions of the bible are used freely.

[Nordic Superman]

The Bible was put together at a Vatican Church meeting. Lots of people voted on what was to be included, and what was to be left out.

I've never heard this before Got any evidence?

[Hedgehog]

I've never heard this before Got any evidence?

There was a church meet in Hippo, in the 4th century.

Google it.

YIP
Zack

[a_joker10]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea

First Council of Nicea

[ToxicAvenger]

Toxy, does the Qu'ran state that the man is more likely to stare at the booty and so it's forbidden?  Or is that more of an accepted tradition?

i think..i am prolly wrong..but in reference to prayer it does say that a man is more likely to stare at teh booty...hense might as well have him stand up front ..personally if a hot chick ws bending over in front of me..i might pray more    actually if a man asks a muslim woman ..lets say my sis to pray in front of him she'd give the guy a half angry "riiiiight" look


my mom and dad always pray side by side..its kinda cute and disheartening at the same time..to see people bow down at nothing

[Hedgehog]

Toxy, does the Qu'ran state that the man is more likely to stare at the booty and so it's forbidden?  Or is that more of an accepted tradition?

Stella, I think you should give the Quran a try.

It's a pretty short book, and fairly easy-read IMO (the English Version  )

Always good to have first hand knowledge IMO.

YIP
Zack

[haider]

damn, sorry gays my laptop is out of order so I wasn't able to access the internet for a couple of days (college started  )

[Nordic Superman]

damn, sorry gays my laptop is out of order so I wasn't able to access the internet for a couple of days (college started  )

Translation:
"I don't have access to my laptop because the FBI have siezed it as evidence in my islamist terrorism case. I'm currently out on bail using a highly monitored police PC. I am gay." - haider

[haider]

Translation:
"I don't have access to my laptop because the FBI have siezed it as evidence in my islamist terrorism case. I'm currently out on bail using a highly monitored police PC. I am gay." - haider

Translation:
"I'm obsessed with haider, and muslims. I call them muzzy's because it sounds WAYYYYY cuter... LOLZZZ, I have a man crush on haider, but I try not to feel bad about myself so I'm gonna call him gay (LOL, I wish he was!!)"

[Nordic Superman]

Translation:
"I'm obsessed with haider, and muslims. I call them muzzy's because it sounds WAYYYYY cuter... LOLZZZ, I have a man crush on haider, but I try not to feel bad about myself so I'm gonna call him gay (LOL, I wish he was!!)"

MELTDOWN

You can't combat a "Translation:" reply with another "Translation:" reply.

Check this out: http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=91602.0

[Butterbean]

Ahem.   This is the Learning Thread.  The "you are gay"/"meltdown" board is at the bottom of the Forum Page  (aka The "V" board). 

Carry on

[Butterbean]

Stella, I think you should give the Quran a try.

It's a pretty short book, and fairly easy-read IMO (the English Version  )

Always good to have first hand knowledge IMO.

YIP
Zack

You know Zach, we actually do have a Quran here.  I tried to read it before but just couldn't give it an objective chance. 

Maybe I'll try again (I just found it).

[Hedgehog]

You know Zach, we actually do have a Quran here.  I tried to read it before but just couldn't give it an objective chance. 

Maybe I'll try again (I just found it).

I'm highly critical of Islam, and don't think there is any place for such a religion in a modern society. One of the primary reasons is because I believe in equal rights for women, something that's not taught in Islam.

With that being said, I still think reading the Quran is something everyone should try to do, as to get an understanding for what Muslims base their faith on.

YIP
Zack

[Nordic Superman]

I'm highly critical of Islam, and don't think there is any place for such a religion in a modern society. One of the primary reasons is because I believe in equal rights for women, something that's not taught in Islam.

With that being said, I still think reading the Quran is something everyone should try to do, as to get an understanding for what Muslims base their faith on.

YIP
Zack

I was going to spend some time in a European country for a while.

I've done Germany, next I WAS going to goto Sweden, but I think I'll fuck that off and goto Switzerland instead

[Hedgehog]

I was going to spend some time in a European country for a while.

I've done Germany, next I WAS going to goto Sweden, but I think I'll f**k that off and goto Switzerland instead

Haha.

I'm telling you, once you read the Quran, you'll realise what a terrible religion Islam is.

The fact that the Quran is in every letter the word of God, and not open for interpretations, like eg the Bible, is what makes it such a load of crap.

YIP
Zack

[OzmO]

I'm highly critical of Islam, and don't think there is any place for such a religion in a modern society. One of the primary reasons is because I believe in equal rights for women, something that's not taught in Islam.

With that being said, I still think reading the Quran is something everyone should try to do, as to get an understanding for what Muslims base their faith on.

YIP
Zack

I wonder if  the Christian Bible equates women as full equals.

[Nordic Superman]

Haha.

I'm telling you, once you read the Quran, you'll realise what a terrible religion Islam is.

The fact that the Quran is in every letter the word of God, and not open for interpretations, like eg the Bible, is what makes it such a load of crap.

YIP
Zack

Huh? Are you a professional clown?

Why do you think I hate the religion of islam?

[OzmO]

Huh? Are you a professional clown?

Why do you think I hate the religion of islam?

I think  the core of this whole matter is that you hate anything that isn't pure English.