POST AND PRE workout shakes are for losers.

[Faust]

Ok, i'm reading a bit more into it, maybe some BCAA or whey with the carbs after workout seems optimal. Anyway, stress on the carbs, not on the protein.

Another thing: it seems that protein uptake is actually pretty high during training. So maybe a protein/complex carbs meal like 1 h in advance is optimal?

[Hedgehog]

Could very well be true. However, by the "starvation" method you'll probably lose a lot of muscle mass (probably fast fibers).

But i have other objectives. Season has started, and i wanna lift and play ball as well. So I think i'll keep my carb intake high during and after the basketball session (2 h). In order to avoid cortisol release, so i wont lose too much muscle. I hope this will help as well to help the muscle recover.
Maybe shakes themselves arent really necessary, but post-workout nutrition def. helps.

One thing i don't understand, why is everybody on the boards obsessed by protein right after training? I've read several studies saying that the only thing you need is fast carbs, maybe a very little bit of BCAA (or whey). This is primarely for an insulin spike, the muscle is very susceptible for this after a workout, and the muscles takes in the glucose faster after a workout.
Only 1-2 h after a hard workout your muscle starts taking in protein again.

Interesting:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12094125

Good point. A german study apparently showed that as little as 6 grams of amino acids was needed post workout, I heard this from Bengt Saltin.

So if adding too much protein, you'll fcuk up the PWS...

I'm going to experiment with lowering my current 20 grams of protein to somewhere around 10 grams, to see if it makes any difference.



YIP
Zack

[The True Adonis]

Good point. A german study apparently showed that as little as 6 grams of amino acids was needed post workout, I heard this from Bengt Saltin.

So if adding too much protein, you'll fcuk up the PWS...

I'm going to experiment with lowering my current 20 grams of protein to somewhere around 10 grams, to see if it makes any difference.



YIP
Zack

Rest assured, it won`t.
hahhahahh

[Faust]

Rest assured, it won`t.
hahhahahh

If you're doing something, you might as well try to do it right.

I doubt it will give "spectacular" results (especially cause he's an experienced lifer, for a newb the diff will probably be greater), but to get those extra %'s one can give it a try...


TA, please enlighten us with your theories.
You don't believe in post-workout nutrition? You eat nothing for the first hour(s) after a workout?

[theoperator]

True Adonis, what do u eat after u work out?? and how long after u work out ??... i dont take shakes , i usually have chicken or egg whites

[jmt1]

this post by ta is a joke...there is no debating the importance of the post workout shake...it is a proven fact backed up by science...people can debate on specific formulas, how many simple carbs, protein, bcaa,glutamine, ect....but drinking a shake postworkout is a given.

here is a good article on the topic...

http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/windowofopportunity.php

[alexxx]

Ronnie Coleman doesn't use a post workout shake. He is the most muscular bodybuilder ever eating solid foods throughout the day except for morning where he use shakes. Coincidence?

Sergio Oliva some argue the best bodybuilder ever never drank shakes nor did Serge Nubret.

[jmt1]

Ronnie Coleman doesn't use a post workout shake. He is the most muscular bodybuilder ever eating solid foods throughout the day except for morning where he use shakes. Coincidence?

Sergio Oliva some argue the best bodybuilder ever never drank shakes nor did Serge Nubret.

serge nubret...lol...try training and eating like surge nubret and see how far you get....bringining up bodybuildrs of the 60s,70s doesnt mean a thing...they didnt have the knowledge or supplements that are available to todays bodybuiders...they were great bodybuilders but their level of conditioning and muscularity wouldnt cut it today...of course part of that is drugs but advancements in nutrition is also a big part.

as for ronnie coleman i dont know if he does or doesnt have a post workout shake...he works with chad so i cant imaginge he doesnt...but ronnie is just a freak...he can do all kinds of shit that most normal people couldnt get away with...in one of his vids i recall him pouring masterpiece bbq suace all over his chicken and ketchup on his french fries...most people cant get away with that.

[alexxx]

serge nubret...lol...try training and eating like surge nubret and see how far you get....bringining up bodybuildrs of the 60s,70s doesnt mean a thing...they didnt have the knowledge or supplements that are available to todays bodybuiders...they were great bodybuilders but their level of conditioning and muscularity wouldnt cut it today...of course part of that is drugs but advancements in nutrition is also a big part.

as for ronnie coleman i dont know if he does or doesnt have a post workout shake...he works with chad so i cant imaginge he doesnt...but ronnie is just a freak...he can do all kinds of shit that most normal people couldnt get away with...in one of his vids i recall him pouring masterpiece bbq suace all over his chicken and ketchup on his french fries...most people cant get away with that.

You honestly believe that Sergio Oliva or Serge would not cut it today?

No Ronnie does not take shakes after training.

But I do.

[jmt1]

well how well do u think they would do?

sergio, serge were great in their day...they didnt have the big guts that some of the guys have today...but they would also be considered smooth according to todays standards.

i dont even think its really fair to compare bodybuilder of that era to the guys today...the guys today have some much more available to them as far as drugs, training methods, and nutrition...if it was a level playing field and sergio was competing in his prime today it would be a different story.

[alexxx]

well how well do u think they would do?

sergio, serge were great in their day...they didnt have the big guts that some of the guys have today...but they would also be considered smooth according to todays standards.

i dont even think its really fair to compare bodybuilder of that era to the guys today...the guys today have some much more available to them as far as drugs, training methods, and nutrition...if it was a level playing field and sergio was competing in his prime today it would be a different story.

Are you seriously saying that Sergio looking like this would not place well today?

[Princess L]

Ronnie Coleman doesn't use a post workout shake. He is the most muscular bodybuilder ever eating solid foods throughout the day except for morning where he use shakes. Coincidence?

Ronnie has plenty of chemical assistance.
Poor argument.

[jmt1]

i'm saying its a different sport today...do you think segios 70s physique would crack the top 5 at the olympia?...top 10?

[alexxx]

i'm saying its a different sport today...do you think segios 70s physique would crack the top 5 at the olympia?...top 10?

The way he looks in my pic he could take the title from anybody.

[Jr. Yates]

The way he looks in my pic he could take the title from anybody.

....no.

[!@#$%]

this post by ta is a joke...there is no debating the importance of the post workout shake...it is a proven fact backed up by science...people can debate on specific formulas, how many simple carbs, protein, bcaa,glutamine, ect....but drinking a shake postworkout is a given.

here is a good article on the topic...

http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/windowofopportunity.php

That same article states that supplementing with glutamine post-workout is beneficial, which has been disproven.

See:
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=230glut2
and
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=231glut2

[jmt1]

That same article states that supplementing with glutamine post-workout is beneficial, which has been disproven.

ive seen those articles...it hasnt been disproven...ive also plenty of research that shows that glutamine is the first amino acid used to combat catabolism...and how increased levels of glutamine strengthen the immune system...i think the book is still out on how beneficial glutamine is or isnt....you can find research that comes down on both sides.

the main point of the article was the window of opportunity and the pw shake.

[gibberj2]

Diet and supplements has nothing to do with it. Contest prep knowledge a little, better equipment mostly for legs a little but the other 90% ALL DRUGS!

[jianjohn24]

Post workout shakes work, period. It's scientifically proven and validated through numerous studies douchebags. If your a pro bber then JUICE is all you need, poor argument as Princess L said.

[MCWAY]

Ronnie Coleman doesn't use a post workout shake. He is the most muscular bodybuilder ever eating solid foods throughout the day except for morning where he use shakes. Coincidence?

Sergio Oliva some argue the best bodybuilder ever never drank shakes nor did Serge Nubret.

And this is relevant because........

The bottom line is shortly after completing training, bodybuilders consume nutrients (mainly carbs and protein) to help them recover and grow. It appears that some people want to pat themselves on the head, because they eat solid food instead of drinking shakes.

I've used shakes post-workout since the mid-90s, when Ronnie Coleman was a modest competitor. For some strange reason, the gains I made didn't disappear when Coleman became Mr. Olympia. Go figure!!!

If something is effective and has produced for you, keep doing it!! WHO CARES which guy is currently Mr. Olympia?

[gibberj2]

This whole thing is bogus. If you are a bodybuilder, competitive or not you eat at least 5 times a day; sometimes 6 or more. It doesn't matter wheather you take a shake within an hour after your workout. OMG! I better have my shake RIGHT NOW or i'm gonna die! Nutrients stay in your body for days!!! Try this... Stop training for 3 weeks and all that time eat like a little homo. Then start training and eating the way you did before on the same day. You will see that the bodyparts you trained that day or even in the next couple of days will have no improvements (I don't know about you guys but if I took 3 weeks off and ate like a bird I lose at least a 1/4 to 1/2 in my arms and legs. maybe that's for those with worse genetics than others). But if you eat well 3 or 4 days before and then start training the body will respond a lot better. Why? Because post workout stuff is bogus. How about pre-workout or 3 days preworkout? where do you think that food goes?

[!@#$%]

this post by ta is a joke...there is no debating the importance of the post workout shake...it is a proven fact backed up by science...people can debate on specific formulas, how many simple carbs, protein, bcaa,glutamine, ect....but drinking a shake postworkout is a given.

here is a good article on the topic...

http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/windowofopportunity.php

1. Why aren't there more articles on the importance of Maltodextrin and Dextrose after working out. Usually when a good theory comes out it is talked to death.
2. Anyone who has been into bodybuilding for a while has seen a lot of strange bodybuilding theories come and go. Why would you jump on one like this until it has stood the test of time.
3. The reason the pros eat simple sugar after their workouts is they take insulin and must take it with sugar or they will go into hypoglycemic shock. Even with the insulin, they usually won't take more than 8oz of gatoraide.
4. If you were going to take Malodextrin and Dextrose, why would you take in as a tasteless powder when it is available in foods. Sweettarts candy is made of Malodextrin and Dextrose. Many MR drinks are made of Malodextrin, Dextrose and Cornsyrup.
5. Where does corn syrup fit into this?

For a year now, I have been spiking my insulin with gatoraide powder/creatine then switched to kool-aide powder mixed with creatine. For the last two months I have cut this out because I have been cutting, and I have noticed no difference, except I am leaner.

[The True Adonis]

1. Why aren't there more articles on the importance of Maltodextrin and Dextrose after working out. Usually when a good theory comes out it is talked to death.
2. Anyone who has been into bodybuilding for a while has seen a lot of strange bodybuilding theories come and go. Why would you jump on one like this until it has stood the test of time.
3. The reason the pros eat simple sugar after their workouts is they take insulin and must take it with sugar or they will go into hypoglycemic shock. Even with the insulin, they usually won't take more than 8oz of gatoraide.
4. If you were going to take Malodextrin and Dextrose, why would you take in as a tasteless powder when it is available in foods. Sweettarts candy is made of Malodextrin and Dextrose. Many MR drinks are made of Malodextrin, Dextrose and Cornsyrup.
5. Where does corn syrup fit into this?

For a year now, I have been spiking my insulin with gatoraide powder/creatine then switched to kool-aide powder mixed with creatine. For the last two months I have cut this out because I have been cutting, and I have noticed no difference, except I am leaner.

ahaha Monster Truth.

Its a bunch of bullshit.  Tell them.

[pvcjockey]

i myself take a pwo shake but, i have this to say.  look at all the big ass mother fuckers in the california prison system who get jacked as fuck on three shitty meals and no pre or post workout shake. just food for thought.

[delta9mda]

HOw do you figure a post workout shake doesnt work TA? Seriously tell me your insight..
I thought your body is like a sponge after a workout, and would absorb a protein shake very fast and efficiently over solid foods..and then say 45 minutels after the shake, have your meal, no?

sounds good to me. to neglect the oportunity to feed (or take in carbs/pro shake)after training hell no.