FLEX vs MD: The battle gets dirty

[scribbler]

There are some very good photoshop artists here.  I'm sure if there's anything shady, they'd know it.

I've spoken to you before 240, and I can tell you that shot is real-and yes-the entire series would prove it to you-if I remember on Tuesday I'll send you another one.

Why the hell would we add a ton more plates to that-the whole reason for the shot was that the weight was impressive, why make up the most important part of the shot.

Also, whoever said "meltdown", us coming back and saying that the claim about the plates being fake isn't true is hardly a meltdown, seems like it's way too easy for someone to be called ona  meltdown lately-I remember when a guy really needed to lose it before anyone claimed that

C

[scribbler]

Let the conspiracy begin

or Kevin could do it for me

C

[kmhphoto]

Maybe he was insulted first.  You ever think of that Kevin?  Your boy is not a saint.

I honestly don't recall Peter writing anything insulting about anyone.

[Crusher]

I honestly don't recall Peter writing anything insulting about anyone.

Well then you have a very bad memory or you haven't been around long enough.  I work for Romano, and have for years.  I have all the articles going all the way back in my files.  This whole thing all boils down to Peter McGough. He started it.  He came off all mightier than thou, and now he's crying about personal attacks?  He's pathetic. That's one of the reasons why 99% of all the posts pertaining to this topic are in favor of MD.

[Hedgehog]

They have some guys who produces quality at MD.

Romano isn't one of them.

He's a little too creative in his articles, exaggretions are a norm.

Manninen, Wheeler(!), Thomas Fahey.

But Romano? No.

YIP
Zack

[SecondFocus]

I am that "trained" eye in PhotoShop and it is not cloned in. You can tell from the shadow and lighting patterns. And aside from that I would take the word of Kevin. There are a few people who sit in that front row at shows shooting photos who care about what we do.

[240 is Back]

I've spoken to you before 240, and I can tell you that shot is real-and yes-the entire series would prove it to you-if I remember on Tuesday I'll send you another one.

yep - looks like horton put that theory to bed with the small shots.

[Matt C]

Well then you have a very bad memory or you haven't been around long enough.  I work for Romano, and have for years.  I have all the articles going all the way back in my files.  This whole thing all boils down to Peter McGough. He started it.  He came off all mightier than thou, and now he's crying about personal attacks?  He's pathetic. That's one of the reasons why 99% of all the posts pertaining to this topic are in favor of MD.

I would say let it go.

I have been fucked over numerous times in life and I just want to get back at the people doing it.  Most recently I was owed a total of $3,000 in back rent from my friends who were living here.  When I started to get strict about it, they had the nerve to take it out on me.  This is one of many times I've been in the right and got the short end of the stick despite that.  But you know something?  Why bother - I always regret getting angry about it.  I would say the same thing to Romano.  He should be the bigger man about it.  He will look better by doing so.

[kmhphoto]

Well then you have a very bad memory or you haven't been around long enough.  I work for Romano, and have for years.  I have all the articles going all the way back in my files.  This whole thing all boils down to Peter McGough. He started it.  He came off all mightier than thou, and now he's crying about personal attacks?  He's pathetic. That's one of the reasons why 99% of all the posts pertaining to this topic are in favor of MD.

Well I've been involved in this business for close to 20 years and have known Peter that long. As I said, I don't recall him insulting anyone.
Since John started his attacks I don't remember a single response printed in FLEX. Maybe John saw this silence as a sign of weakness and felt empowered to continue? Who knows?
John is a talented writer who should realise that there really is no need for personal insults in any business, especially as one as small as ours. We should all be working together to make the sport grow not ripping each other apart.

[dknole]

First off...we don't own Men's Journal, we own Men's Fitness. Secondly, FLEX and M&F are both very profitable, and no you don't sell off bad titles, you shut them down as AMI did earlier this year with several non-profitable titles, that is what REAL media companies do. The magazines being sold are all strong performers in their respective niche as far as newsstand sales and ads go and thus the high asking prices,. What you said about not being central to the business however, is correct, in that AMI has said publicly that they are looking to concentrate more on the original core product, which is the tabloids and the more consumer titles-which requires a larger cash flow to be obtained by selling off some of the stronger, more specialised titles.

Circulation is the MAIN factor in controlling ad prices, in that companies are paying a rate based on the number of people the page will be exposed to-if less people will see the ad-then obviously the page should sell for less...which means that if MD is selling more copies then FLEX as they claim, then thier ad cost/page would be higher than FLEX...which it isn't-and you can confirm that with any company that advertises in both.

This is just truth, no slam, no lies-actual truth

C

Mr C (thank you for using your real name!),

AMI is dumping the non-core non-profitable magazines. yes, I made a mistake, I meant Men's Fitness, not Men's Journal. As AMI is a public company you know that Pecker's actual job is on the line here because of almost bringing AMI 1 billion into the red (that is a lot of money).

If we want to switch the arguement for a second to quality of each respective book, I believe that MD offers the reader and the  buyer more for the sales buck at newstand price. Flex used to be a very good read back when Chris Street and Joey Antonio and a few others wrote for it. It has lost its panache and for sure, like MD is a niche magazine (none of these are Details, Men's Health or even Wired)

One concept in business is to keep price to the ad buyer low and instead of raising rates to correlate with absolute sales, rather emlarge the book (magazine) and allow more people to place ads thus increwasing the ad spend on each magazine (from advertisers) while not having to increase the newstand price. This also allows the publisher to pay each "athlete" for photo's (unnlike AMI) and the pay rate to the contract writers to be better than Flex (again, I have written for both so I know the pay rates across the board on a per article or yearly contract basis).

So, on quality, MD wins, on circulation, i have no idea, on Steve B being truthful in hs re-telling of his meeting with Pecker in the last issue, I believe Steve, he has never not been straight (always a straight shooter) and the best part is that he truly cares about BB and the "athlete's".

Let's see what happens next year....when AMI does not run the Mr O, be quite certain that MD will be at the Olym[ia this year, no matter what Peter M writes.

Doug Kalman

[kmhphoto]

AMI is dumping the non-core non-profitable magazines. yes, I made a mistake, I meant Men's Fitness, not Men's Journal.Doug Kalman

Doug,
You're making a mistake again. They are selling profitable magazines.

[dearth]

Well you need to get your eyes examined then because that dunbell is real and no plates were added to it by photoshop, withcraft or little men in flying saucers.

Kevin,

just curious- are you asserting that FLEX does not photoshop or alter any of its images?

[Crusher]

Well I've been involved in this business for close to 20 years and have known Peter that long. As I said, I don't recall him insulting anyone.
Since John started his attacks I don't remember a single response printed in FLEX. Maybe John saw this silence as a sign of weakness and felt empowered to continue? Who knows?
John is a talented writer who should realise that there really is no need for personal insults in any business, especially as one as small as ours. We should all be working together to make the sport grow not ripping each other apart.

Kevin, with all due respect, you are wrong.  McGough started it.  Romano responded. It doesn't matter when or how long ago, it matters that it did happen that way.  McGough started it.  Maybe John responded too much, but that never would have happened had he not been provoked.  I can tell you that he would never have taken this to a personal level had McGough not instigated it.  I have worked for John for a littel over 10 years and that is not his style.  Many more people like him than not. That's where this whole thing is coming from.  MCGough started it.  I know Romano tried to end it but McGough doesn't want to.  I totally agree with you that we should all be working together.   That is what it best for everyone.

[getfast81]

AMIs boy Johnnie O Jackson won and it hasnt hit the frontpage on flexonline.com what a shock!  Expect wall to wall coverage for the next six months.

"Worlds Strongest Bodybuilder TOP 3 at Olympia?"  Cant hear it now even two months after the show has come and gone.

[dknole]

Doug,
You're making a mistake again. They are selling profitable magazines.

Kevin,

If they are keeping Men's Fitness and M&F, but selling Flex - are you saying that those that they are keeping are not-profitable, but for the sake of "better business" they are selling their profitable books? Makes no sense. You keep what makes money and does not bleed, you kill off or sell what bleeds or is less profitable. Gives the investor the better bang for their long-term dollar, no?

[kmhphoto]

Kevin,

If they are keeping Men's Fitness and M&F, but selling Flex - are you saying that those that they are keeping are not-profitable, but for the sake of "better business" they are selling their profitable books? Makes no sense. You keep what makes money and does not bleed, you kill off or sell what bleeds or is less profitable. Gives the investor the better bang for their long-term dollar, no?

They are selling magazines that make around $30 million a year in profit. I call that profitable. They are also retaining a number of their title which are also profitable, some more so.
You've posted a number of times stating that they are selling non-profitable titles. I'm just correcting you.

Kevin

[dknole]

kevin,

Are each magazines true financials (not the MI's numbers) listed in AMI's Wall Street quarterly filings?

[kmhphoto]

kevin,

Are each magazines true financials (not the MI's numbers) listed in AMI's Wall Street quarterly filings?

No idea.

[scribbler]

Mr C (thank you for using your real name!),

AMI is dumping the non-core non-profitable magazines. yes, I made a mistake, I meant Men's Fitness, not Men's Journal. As AMI is a public company you know that Pecker's actual job is on the line here because of almost bringing AMI 1 billion into the red (that is a lot of money).

If we want to switch the arguement for a second to quality of each respective book, I believe that MD offers the reader and the  buyer more for the sales buck at newstand price. Flex used to be a very good read back when Chris Street and Joey Antonio and a few others wrote for it. It has lost its panache and for sure, like MD is a niche magazine (none of these are Details, Men's Health or even Wired)

One concept in business is to keep price to the ad buyer low and instead of raising rates to correlate with absolute sales, rather emlarge the book (magazine) and allow more people to place ads thus increwasing the ad spend on each magazine (from advertisers) while not having to increase the newstand price. This also allows the publisher to pay each "athlete" for photo's (unnlike AMI) and the pay rate to the contract writers to be better than Flex (again, I have written for both so I know the pay rates across the board on a per article or yearly contract basis).

So, on quality, MD wins, on circulation, i have no idea, on Steve B being truthful in hs re-telling of his meeting with Pecker in the last issue, I believe Steve, he has never not been straight (always a straight shooter) and the best part is that he truly cares about BB and the "athlete's".

Let's see what happens next year....when AMI does not run the Mr O, be quite certain that MD will be at the Olym[ia this year, no matter what Peter M writes.

Doug Kalman

My name is Chris Hobrecker...and I am Group Creative Director of the enthusiast division at AMI/Weider...many people I have spoken to on here know who I am, and I have never tried to hide it. So it's useless to try and call me out.

If you choose to believe Steve B over Peter M, that is your choice-if you like MD better-that is also your choice-there are 2 distinctly different philosophies involved in the 2 magazines...and both don't appeal to everyone.

The problem with your whole business idea is that adding pages to the magazines also increases the production costs and thus lowers the bottom line, which is a pretty important part of running a business. The ultimate goal is to keep the fans and the advertisers happy while still making $$ in the end.

C

[onlyme]

Well I gotta side with my buddy Kevin on this one. He had just proved everyone wrong who said it was altered.  Good job Kevin.  You da man.

[kmhphoto]

Well I gotta side with my buddy Kevin on this one. He had just proved everyone wrong who said it was altered.  Good job Kevin.  You da man.

I'm blushing now

[UK Gold]

The magazine timeline:

1] 15 year old boy buys Flex wanting to learn how to train and look like a bodybuilder
2] A year later, after eating tons of brocoli and spending a fortune on snake oil like scamma o, he realises he might also need something called steroids.
3] Buys MD for a couple of issues. Gets a glimpse of what bodybuilding is really like. Gets bored.
4] Discovers the internet - finds out the truth about bodybuilding. Its 90% steroids. The articles in Flex are ghost written. Badly.
5] Becomes a Getbig member and gets the latest gossip the day it happens. Also gets the best pics without having to pay for them. Becomes incredibly pissed off that he ever wasted money on shit like Flex and MD.

[Bulldogs]

Palumbo went away for selling gh? 

[dknole]

Chris H,

I do not know who you are - so you being stand-offish is petty.

In the end, all the magazines should be striving to get/obtain new interest in working out/exercise and perhaps competative BB.

The working out part might be the sport part of it, standing on a stage, posing is not athletic nor a sport. In fact, less than 5% of all people who ever work out ever enter a contest.

Flex and MD are different as is Fitness Rx for Her and Shape, they all have their +/-'s, however, from a sales perspective none hold a candle to Men's Health - including MnF (Muscle n Fiction as it is known in academic circles). Sadly, since Joe has gotten older and a tad ill and is no longer involved in the day-to-day operations of the magazines, they have fallen from their prestige. The loss of writers and the attempt to deny that people do not normally weigh 275 pounds at a height of 5'10 or 6'2 without being either obese or on drugs is also wrong. Yes, drugs are illegal, but these people do them. The "how to" articles of training, dieting, supplementing, and other items around these are what are instructive to the new and not so new reader.

The internet has taken many buyers away from the magazines as they go to T-Nation, GetBig, and other great sites out there. MD just announced a whole new web presence (sp) to start shortly, should be interesting as MnF and Flex's site are sales oriented and not info and content oriented.

have a great weekend - does AMI release the sales figures and PnL sheets for each magazine in their SEC filings?

Doug "dknole" Kalman
"Go Noles"

[Yorkie T]

Palumbo went away for selling gh? 

fake GH