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Author Topic: The Adonis Principles vs. Doggcrapp  (Read 11087 times)
natural al
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« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2006, 06:06:01 PM »

The True Adonis "While we are eating Ice Cream,Pizza and Hamburgers and Peanut butter and jelly sandwhiches and laughing all the way.
hahahahahahahahahahah"


Adonis.....Where exactly are you laughing too?

As an outsider looking in it seems DC is laughing his way to the bank  and notoriety selling his services and owning his own business and his clients seem to be laughing their way to competitive success.

excactly.
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« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2006, 06:37:30 PM »

David Henry got big on DC. Mentzer, Viator, Dugdale, and Dorian on HIT variations. Arnold on volume, but his best on volume with intensity. Johnny Jackson and Eric Bui by powerlifting. Serge on lots of volume. They all found what worked best for them. They all tried various styles of training, saw the results that they got, and eventually found what their body responded best to, in both ecercise and diet. Dorian carefully logged and measured everything about his diet, Darrem plays it by ear.

There is no "one" method to getting big. There is what works for you the best, which may not be what works for someone else the best. Adonis isn't revolutionizing bodybuilding, he's just presenting his variation on it. Which is pretty close to a lot of other guys' variation. Same with Dante. Though he hates having it categorized as HIT, it's very similar (I think it's actually remarkably similar to a hardcore version of the Body for Life program). You can argue how much better one system is over another till the end of time, but there will never be a resolution. For every person who got awesome results training one way, there's someone who didn't get any.

Adonis's principles work for him. Awesome. DC's work for Dave Henry. Awesome. Each and every one of us has what works for us. Talking about different systems can be educational and rewarding, and certainly trying out different things is the best way to find what works for you. But argueing about what system works best is just retarded. There is no best, just different.
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« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2006, 06:49:07 PM »

David Henry got big on DC. Mentzer, Viator, Dugdale, and Dorian on HIT variations. Arnold on volume, but his best on volume with intensity. Johnny Jackson and Eric Bui by powerlifting. Serge on lots of volume. They all found what worked best for them. They all tried various styles of training, saw the results that they got, and eventually found what their body responded best to, in both ecercise and diet. Dorian carefully logged and measured everything about his diet, Darrem plays it by ear.

There is no "one" method to getting big. There is what works for you the best, which may not be what works for someone else the best. Adonis isn't revolutionizing bodybuilding, he's just presenting his variation on it. Which is pretty close to a lot of other guys' variation. Same with Dante. Though he hates having it categorized as HIT, it's very similar (I think it's actually remarkably similar to a hardcore version of the Body for Life program). You can argue how much better one system is over another till the end of time, but there will never be a resolution. For every person who got awesome results training one way, there's someone who didn't get any.

Adonis's principles work for him. Awesome. DC's work for Dave Henry. Awesome. Each and every one of us has what works for us. Talking about different systems can be educational and rewarding, and certainly trying out different things is the best way to find what works for you. But argueing about what system works best is just retarded. There is no best, just different.

True Shit brother, Iv'e been saying that for years.....glad to see someone else sees the light. Actually a lot of people do,but they get shouted down by the retards who think they know something.
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« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2006, 06:53:26 PM »

David Henry got big on DC. Mentzer, Viator, Dugdale, and Dorian on HIT variations. Arnold on volume, but his best on volume with intensity. Johnny Jackson and Eric Bui by powerlifting. Serge on lots of volume. They all found what worked best for them. They all tried various styles of training, saw the results that they got, and eventually found what their body responded best to, in both ecercise and diet. Dorian carefully logged and measured everything about his diet, Darrem plays it by ear.

There is no "one" method to getting big. There is what works for you the best, which may not be what works for someone else the best. Adonis isn't revolutionizing bodybuilding, he's just presenting his variation on it. Which is pretty close to a lot of other guys' variation. Same with Dante. Though he hates having it categorized as HIT, it's very similar (I think it's actually remarkably similar to a hardcore version of the Body for Life program). You can argue how much better one system is over another till the end of time, but there will never be a resolution. For every person who got awesome results training one way, there's someone who didn't get any.

Adonis's principles work for him. Awesome. DC's work for Dave Henry. Awesome. Each and every one of us has what works for us. Talking about different systems can be educational and rewarding, and certainly trying out different things is the best way to find what works for you. But argueing about what system works best is just retarded. There is no best, just different.

Very good post.
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« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2006, 07:21:13 PM »

Hey guys, here's my bodybuilding "theory":

Eat a good diet, train with intensity, get adequate rest and try to maintain a balanced lifestyle and you will gain muscle mass.

Discuss.

You obviously don't know a thing about bodybuilding. Take it from me, I live on a diet of bubble gum and spam, I only work out 1 3/4 times a week, and I benchpress 7 thousand pounds for reps. I call my system the "T(ea-time) system, my secret is having my pinky up on all my lifts and drinking 30 bags of earl gray every day. Everything else is wrong, the great conspiracy has lied to you, my method is the only way you will get big!


 Tongue
I guess spewing bullshit is kinda fun afterall Grin
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« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2006, 07:29:38 PM »

You obviously don't know a thing about bodybuilding. Take it from me, I live on a diet of bubble gum and spam, I only work out 1 3/4 times a week, and I benchpress 7 thousand pounds for reps. I call my system the "T(ea-time) system, my secret is having my pinky up on all my lifts and drinking 30 bags of earl gray every day. Everything else is wrong, the great conspiracy has lied to you, my method is the only way you will get big!


 Tongue
I guess spewing bullshit is kinda fun afterall Grin

i'll giave this a try if the adonis principles fail!!
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« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2006, 08:13:17 PM »

I've developed a revolutionary training system that I like to call "5x5". You do 5 sets of 5 reps on the basic compound movements. It will shake the world of bodybuilding to its very core.
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hahahahahahahahahahahaha
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« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2006, 09:30:32 PM »

There is no best, just different.

DC training is Mentzer's HIT training, there is no difference. It is a scam plain and simple.

Only difference is Dante has these idiots doing "rack chins" in the gym to improve back width, lmao, like they will improve someones back superior to regular chins.

Dante, it's all genetic, moving your hands out wider, doesn't make your back wider...hahaha

Anyone who has paid Dante to train them is a scam artists wet dream. Take a $20 Mentzer book and charge people $500 to adhere to the principles. hahahahah  smooth work DC, I must admit.

Dante, any other studies on extreme stretching working, or just the old bird wing study you have laying around?    Roll Eyes

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« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2006, 10:17:30 PM »

Mike Mentzer was one of the few philosophers in bodybuilding. He claimed there is only one true theory about any phenomenon and I agree with him. So, what is the true theory of maximum hypertrophy? What others are discussing here are various theories and methods that have believers and followers. Now, either a theory works or it does not work. If it fails to generate hypertrophy and the trainee did everything optimally then there is something wrong with the theory.

Let us do a thought experiment. Suppose we reverse engineer the training of all the guys who got huge. If we could subtract the contribution of drugs then we could determine what exactly caused the growth. Since most bodybuilders take years to get huge it becomes too complicated to determine what exactly is causing the growth. It might be this or that or a lot of factors. There have been no lab studies done to generate significant levels of hypertrophy in humans.

Okay, the thought experiment is this. Is it not possible, in principle, to grow maximally everyday? If so, then it must be possible to find a way to grow maximally everyday. Reverse engineering programs from most professionals is not going to be profitable because they contaminate results with drug use. It may well be that some programs work up to a point but cannot transcend thresholds and so progress stagnates. Clearly if growth stops then something is wrong with the program and something different has to be done.

I believe it is possible to grow maximally every day. I doubt HIT or HST will do it. I would bet neither can come close. Not the way they are formulated at the moment. Until someone can demonstrate daily rapid growth we are never going to find the best program. In the meantime bodybuilders clash in gyms and discussion boards about which method is right. Most methods overlap with the true theory of hypertrophy but none are the true theory. The complete theory will have to explain all non-growth as well and that is something that is difficult to explain to those who are not making gains in the gym. I would guess that that vast majority of bodybuilders are not growing today. Those who are growing are doing so at a very slow rate. The sport has been reduced into a basic training enterprise which requires drugs to get really big. That is what almost everyone believes at the moment and I wonder if that will ever change. There is hardly anyone out there looking for the ultimate hypertrophy method because they simply do not believe one exists.

Yes, we do differ from each other. I wonder by how much and if particular personal theories are required for each of us. If that is true then there can be no science of hypertrophy. I cannot believe we are that different. There is so much nonsense that bodybuilders believe that I wonder if most can ever try to be scientific.
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IFBBwannaB
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« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2006, 10:58:36 PM »

Mike Mentzer was one of the few philosophers in bodybuilding. He claimed there is only one true theory about any phenomenon and I agree with him. So, what is the true theory of maximum hypertrophy? What others are discussing here are various theories and methods that have believers and followers. Now, either a theory works or it does not work. If it fails to generate hypertrophy and the trainee did everything optimally then there is something wrong with the theory.

Let us do a thought experiment. Suppose we reverse engineer the training of all the guys who got huge. If we could subtract the contribution of drugs then we could determine what exactly caused the growth. Since most bodybuilders take years to get huge it becomes too complicated to determine what exactly is causing the growth. It might be this or that or a lot of factors. There have been no lab studies done to generate significant levels of hypertrophy in humans.

Okay, the thought experiment is this. Is it not possible, in principle, to grow maximally everyday? If so, then it must be possible to find a way to grow maximally everyday. Reverse engineering programs from most professionals is not going to be profitable because they contaminate results with drug use. It may well be that some programs work up to a point but cannot transcend thresholds and so progress stagnates. Clearly if growth stops then something is wrong with the program and something different has to be done.

I believe it is possible to grow maximally every day. I doubt HIT or HST will do it. I would bet neither can come close. Not the way they are formulated at the moment. Until someone can demonstrate daily rapid growth we are never going to find the best program. In the meantime bodybuilders clash in gyms and discussion boards about which method is right. Most methods overlap with the true theory of hypertrophy but none are the true theory. The complete theory will have to explain all non-growth as well and that is something that is difficult to explain to those who are not making gains in the gym. I would guess that that vast majority of bodybuilders are not growing today. Those who are growing are doing so at a very slow rate. The sport has been reduced into a basic training enterprise which requires drugs to get really big. That is what almost everyone believes at the moment and I wonder if that will ever change. There is hardly anyone out there looking for the ultimate hypertrophy method because they simply do not believe one exists.

Yes, we do differ from each other. I wonder by how much and if particular personal theories are required for each of us. If that is true then there can be no science of hypertrophy. I cannot believe we are that different. There is so much nonsense that bodybuilders believe that I wonder if most can ever try to be scientific.


You should write a book,so you would stop wasting getbig storage space.
Next time just operate a random charcther generetor.
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Vince Basile
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« Reply #35 on: September 05, 2006, 11:50:19 PM »

Yeah, no point posting when everyone is already an expert.
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« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2006, 11:53:35 PM »

Yeah, no point posting when everyone is already an expert.
that's right.
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Vince Basile
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« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2006, 12:47:48 AM »

I wish I knew then what I know now. Would have made a huge difference. I suppose as soon as bodybuilders get 16 inch arms they feel they know something about training. I wish it were that easy.
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« Reply #38 on: September 06, 2006, 12:52:24 AM »

You obviously don't know a thing about bodybuilding. Take it from me, I live on a diet of bubble gum and spam, I only work out 1 3/4 times a week, and I benchpress 7 thousand pounds for reps. I call my system the "T(ea-time) system, my secret is having my pinky up on all my lifts and drinking 30 bags of earl gray every day. Everything else is wrong, the great conspiracy has lied to you, my method is the only way you will get big!


 Tongue
I guess spewing bullshit is kinda fun afterall Grin

WOW, can i try ur method?Huh?
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E
IFBBwannaB
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« Reply #39 on: September 06, 2006, 01:15:44 AM »

I wish I knew then what I know now. Would have made a huge difference. I suppose as soon as bodybuilders get 16 inch arms they feel they know something about training. I wish it were that easy.


Bodybuilding aint that hard,at least at the level 99% of the training population do it.
Including juicers,only a handfull of people actualy need sophisticated methods and drug reigmes.
And I you have yet to show any knowlege in those subjects.

You usualy just write alot without any real content.Must be because of your philosophy degree or something.
Lots of talk and no work  Grin
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Vince Basile
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« Reply #40 on: September 06, 2006, 01:21:32 AM »

You guys have no theories here whatsoever. It is like the blind leading the blind.
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« Reply #41 on: September 06, 2006, 02:33:54 AM »

You guys have no theories here whatsoever. It is like the blind leading the blind.

We all have theories, ideas.

But not one of us, not Poliquin, not you, not Haycock, not Arthur Jones, not Milos, not Charles Glass, knows JACK SHIT.

We know nothing.

YIP
Zack
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« Reply #42 on: September 06, 2006, 03:06:43 AM »

Knowing that we know nothing is progress but, alas, it is a contradiction.
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Vince Basile
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« Reply #43 on: September 06, 2006, 03:24:58 AM »

Everyone has thousands of theories about lots of things. We have beliefs, opinions, ideas and lots of other things such as values and feelings, etc.

In science most theories in history have turned out to be false. Even the theories of the great Sir Isaac Newtown were false when Einstein's equations explained more phenomena. Some theories are useful because they are approximations to the truth. What helps progress is having a critical nature and asking questions then trying to answer those questions. In bodybuilding there haven't been too many training theories proposed over the years. I am sure outsiders would be perplexed at the uncertainty of the art. What we do know is that most human males who lift weights and train in gyms can generate some hypertrophy in their muscles if given enough time and as long as they do other things right such as get the nutrients into their bodies, etc.

Everyone who trains experiences periods of stagnation. Most guys train really hard just to keep the muscles that has taken years to develop. When most guys get to a certain size and find progress slow or non-existent they conclude they have reached their natural limits and believe they need drugs to get any bigger. This is believed like people embrace religions. There is no proof that drugs are required but that is what just about everyone believes and I imagine every professional bodybuilder would concur.

The combined cynicism of Getbig should be a wonderful platform to forge a true theory of hypertrophy.

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« Reply #44 on: September 06, 2006, 03:28:32 AM »

You guys have no theories here whatsoever. It is like the blind leading the blind.

Since when having theories mean we have to post each and every one of them at every post we do?
I know that most here are plain stupid so why bother?
If I have something really intresting then I hit the hardcore/steroid board ,thats where the more serious people at.

Do you really think some retard like Bast or Adonis and others can actually comprehend anything with any real depth?
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Vince Basile
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« Reply #45 on: September 06, 2006, 03:32:46 AM »

Are there a populations of trainees called hardgainers? I doubt it, but perhaps some people are genetically deficient then it comes to hypertrophy capacity. If we could identify those individuals then they would make a perfect test for the various training methods out there. Send 20 hardgainers to Stuart McRobert, 20 to Ellington Darden, 20 to Bryan Haycock, 20 to some German to do volume training, 20 to Poliquin to see what he can do and 20 to each person like Dante who claim they can make people bigger. Let us give those trainers 3 months to affect a change. If any trainer can generate significant gains in all 20 subjects and the gains are better than obtained by all the others then that system would be the best and the trainer would be acknowledged as being superior. At the moment there are no such studies and that is a mystery especially when you have a governor in California who used to lift weights.
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« Reply #46 on: September 06, 2006, 03:35:55 AM »

Adonis represents everyone who believes it is possible to get bigger without drugs. I am on his side. Those who need drugs have little to gain from reading about training theories. I mean, don't most bodybuilders believe drugs make all the difference and training doesn't matter much and anyway, drugs make you stronger and that will make you grown?
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« Reply #47 on: September 06, 2006, 03:59:12 AM »

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« Reply #48 on: September 06, 2006, 04:14:08 AM »

DC training is Mentzer's HIT training, there is no difference. It is a scam plain and simple.

Only difference is Dante has these idiots doing "rack chins" in the gym to improve back width, lmao, like they will improve someones back superior to regular chins.

Dante, it's all genetic, moving your hands out wider, doesn't make your back wider...hahaha

Anyone who has paid Dante to train them is a scam artists wet dream. Take a $20 Mentzer book and charge people $500 to adhere to the principles. hahahahah  smooth work DC, I must admit.

Dante, any other studies on extreme stretching working, or just the old bird wing study you have laying around?    Roll Eyes



Word Mentzers theories worked for me i tweaked them so they were a bit more like Dorians training and got amazing results.


Fatty (Dante) is a marketing genius though, he as you say basically copied HIT added some bullshit for a hook for the imbeciles out there who are too lazy to see what works for them. This draws them in and once they have listened to he sermon they are ready to be raped for the protein etc, fatty is a genius.

Now they think he is a god!!! Fuck me was there no mass monsters before Dante??? Whatever he has done he has pulled the wool over some peoples eyes and made a pretty penny for that i salute the beer bellied fuck.

ta ta




 
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natural al
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« Reply #49 on: September 06, 2006, 04:29:57 AM »

DC training is Mentzer's HIT training, there is no difference. It is a scam plain and simple.

Only difference is Dante has these idiots doing "rack chins" in the gym to improve back width, lmao, like they will improve someones back superior to regular chins.

Dante, it's all genetic, moving your hands out wider, doesn't make your back wider...hahaha

Anyone who has paid Dante to train them is a scam artists wet dream. Take a $20 Mentzer book and charge people $500 to adhere to the principles. hahahahah  smooth work DC, I must admit.

Dante, any other studies on extreme stretching working, or just the old bird wing study you have laying around?    Roll Eyes



see, here's the problem with the majority of the posts that rip DC.  You guys take something out of context and run with it.  Dante doesn't MAKE people do rack chins.  It's offered as a variation or an option.  No where does it say "you have to do rack chins", I've never done them and my back is fine.  Now if I max out on front pulldowns or another movement it's there as an option.  If you've been working out for 5+ years and you still have substandard lats will it hurt to do rack chins?  I don't think so, might not help but at least there's a chance that it could work and if it doesn't then what the hell, at least you tried something different.  Sorry, but Dante never, ever said you can change you're genetic shape of a muscle in fact that's one of the things that he preaches.  That's why he doesn't have guys spending hours on end in the gym doing concentration curls, either you have a peak or you don't.

Have you ever read a Metzer book?  Some concepts are similar but to make that statement makes me think you've never read a thing by metzer.  How did Mike want you to rest pause?  It's not the same as how Dante suggests and Dante never says that you have to RP either, if you don't have the recovery ability you can use straight sets.  There are alot of techniques that mike had out there that Dante does not use and alot of things that dante has people doing that mike never used.  Bottom line, if Joe Average trained the way Metzer wanted he'd be dead in a month or totally burned out, Dc is much more practical to the average trainer.
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