Poll: Do you support torture?

[240 is Back]

1.  Do you support the use of torture by the US Govt, used against people we catch overseas, to get info which is important for national security?

2.  Do you support the use of torture by other nations, used against US military/intel officers captured overseas, when these countries feel it is important for their nat'l security?

[Butterbean]

1.  Do you support the use of torture by the US Govt, used against people we catch overseas, to get info which is important for national security?

2.  Do you support the use of torture by other nations, used against US military/intel officers captured overseas, when these countries feel it is important for their nat'l security?

1.  Yes

2.  No



Just kidding.  I feel torture dehumanizes the torturer as well as the tortured.   

[24KT]

Fmr Secretary of State Colin Powell, lines up with John McCain to oppose Bush plan to legalize torture.

http://video.msn.com/v/us/v.htm?g=f9cdd830-5655-437e-8d71-14b8948cffac&f=06/64&fg=copy

Powell opposes interrogation plans

http://video.msn.com/v/us/v.htm?g=6e82520a-dbec-4bfd-bfd7-8df0814f0e9e&f=06/64&fg=copy

[alexxx]

1.  Yes

2.  No



Just kidding.  I feel torture dehumanizes the torturer as well as the tortured.   

Yes I agree. Maybe next time the us military can imploy cookie doh tactics and tempt those fugitives with the good old baking smell.

[Eyeball Chambers]

1. No

2. No!

[dan18]

No i don't but i do believe we need to throw out the Geneva convention that is the rules of war if you don't know what it is.
there are not many countries that follow this,take for instance our government sent a drone plan over Iraq and we spotted over 150 taliban terrorist at a funeral.The airforce commander wired in the info so we could blow these fucker to there death and the us government said no the Geneva convention doesn't allow us to send a military strike against any enemy in a cemetery..aaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhh fuck.
This is a true event just happened im ex marine and we have rules of engagment i think we could have been in and out of iraq in 1 month if we said fuck that but we cannot.we would have had bim laden a long time ago as well...we are fighting animals that will saw heads off our people and others.but we still will not change our rules many lives could have been saved if not for our weakness as a nation in this area..

[Always Sore]

1.yes

2. already happens all the time.

[Migs]

1.yes

2. already happens all the time.

yup

[buffbodz]

That's a good question.  When does interrogation become inhuman torture?  I can see, and kinda like the idea of playing Red Hot Chilie Peppers non stop for days and feeding them red hot chili peppers I wonder who came up with that one.  On the other hand when you start using the shock the nipples and  worse devises that could slowly kill.  That's where I must draw the line.  War today is so much more intelligence necessary than it ever was, so getting information could and probably will save lives.  It's gotta be an individual, case by case thing.  You can't treat an 80 year old lady, who knows what's going to happen, the same as you could handle a 25 year old war hardened terrorist, can you?   I would use things like sleep deprivation, cramped quarters, cold, light things that suck, but will not kill.  I guess short of killing or maiming, that's as far as we should go. IMO

[knny187]

1 - yes

2 - yes


it's the name of the game

[Colossus_500]

1. Yes, if it means our national security is at stake
2. Yes, if it meant we were threatening the security of another nation.  But are we??

Another way to ask this question.

1. Do you have the right to torture someone who has kidnapped YOUR child and knows of his/her whereabouts?
2. Does the parent of the child YOU'VE kidnapped have the right to torture YOU when YOU know of his/her whereabouts?

[Soul Crusher]

1.  Do you support the use of torture by the US Govt, used against people we catch overseas, to get info which is important for national security?

2.  Do you support the use of torture by other nations, used against US military/intel officers captured overseas, when these countries feel it is important for their nat'l security?

YES.

[OzmO]

Before i answer the question:

What if the guy you are torturing doesn't really know the information you are looking for?  Is torture justified then? 

If we caught some guy who knew where a terrorist cell was that was planning to blow up a stadium full of people at a football game then i agree torture is appropiate to get the information. 

But torture for general purposes as a way of fishing for information is not something i am for.

[Dos Equis]

1.  Yes.

2.  No.

[240 is Back]

Anyone who believes the US should be allowed to breakthe rules of Geneva, but no other nation on Earth should be allowed to...

Can you explain your reasoning for this? 

[OzmO]

Anyone who believes the US should be allowed to breakthe rules of Geneva, but no other nation on Earth should be allowed to...

Can you explain your reasoning for this? 

snicker snicker snicker...............  becuase we are a nation representing GOD?  There fore we are justified?  Because GWB was appoointed by GOD?................snicker snicker snicker

All's fair in love and war?................snicker snicker snicker

[Colossus_500]

Anyone who believes the US should be allowed to breakthe rules of Geneva, but no other nation on Earth should be allowed to...

Can you explain your reasoning for this? 

One simple reason, 240...The people that we are battling do NOT fall under the Geneva rules.

[240 is Back]

One simple reason, 240...The people that we are battling do NOT fall under the Geneva rules.

As in all countries, there are crazy fcuks who will do insane stuff like behead people and suicide bomb.  Here in the states, we've had maniacs who shot up schools, snipered in DC, etc.  So I don't think you can ever label ANY country's people with such a broad brush, based upon a few maniacs.

Which "people we are battling" don't fall under Geneva?  Also, when was this decided, and by who?

[OzmO]

One simple reason, 240...The people that we are battling do NOT fall under the Geneva rules.

So becuase they are not citizens of the USA we can do what ever we want to them?

So becuase they didn't subcribe or were invovled in the Geneva Convention it's ok we:   Do on to them , but it's not ok they do on to us?  Aren't we allegedly a christian nation?  Or is that at our convenience only?

[240 is Back]

Gen. Conv. Common Article 3 provides that all detainees, whether prisoners of war, civilians or so-called unlawful combatants, are legally entitled to humane treatment in all circumstances. They may not be subject to “cruel treatment and torture” or “outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment.”

[240 is Back]

So becuase they are not citizens of the USA we can do what ever we want to them?

So becuase they didn't subcribe or were invovled in the Geneva Convention it's ok we:   Do on to them , but it's not ok they do on to us?  Aren't we allegedly a christian nation?  Or is that at our convenience only?

Agreed.  in addition,

1) Imagine the reaction of other nations of the world if/when it becomes COMMON PRACTICE for the US to torture prisoners.  Good luck ever getting a coalition together again.

2) How long until Bush decides that "Aw shoot, we have people we think are terrorists here in the US too.  We should be allowed to torture them too!"?

3) How long until the classification of "terrorist" moves from "those who kill Americans", down to "those who WANT to kill Americans", down to "those who endanger our nation by questioning official policy"?

Think about it.  Five years ago, no one would have dreamed that today we'd be in 2 wars and on the verge of a third.  No one would have guessed that we'd be allowing wireless wiretapping and searches without ever telling the person.  Who could have predicted that the Prez of the US would actually be standing in the Rose Garden, arguing with reporters over why the US, and only the US, should be allowed to toture people?

Crazy shit.  Curb it now of it's gonna get worse folks.  We keep up this slide and in 5 years, talking bad about bush (or condi, then) might just get you tortured and denied counsel, because you're a "suspected terrorist".

[Victor VonDoom]

If you support torture for America’s enemies then in effect, you support it for American servicemen (and women) when they are captured in the future (and they will be).  It’s not a coincidence that Bush and Cheney, neither of which saw armed combat, are so eager to alter U.S. compliance with the Geneva conventions while those who have seen combat (McCain, Powell, etc.) are opposed to it.

Their rhetoric notwithstanding, Bush and Cheney do not care about American troops.  They don’t care about troops currently serving and they don’t care about troops that will be serving in the future.  McCain and Powell do which is why they will go to the mat to stop the US from torturing.  Doom approves.

For all his tough talk, Cheney only has the courage to pick up a gun when his opponent is a wild pheasant.  How the American people can follow a leader like that… not even Doom can figure out.  

[24KT]

Agreed.  in addition,

1) Imagine the reaction of other nations of the world if/when it becomes COMMON PRACTICE for the US to torture prisoners.  Good luck ever getting a coalition together again.

2) How long until Bush decides that "Aw shoot, we have people we think are terrorists here in the US too.  We should be allowed to torture them too!"?

3) How long until the classification of "terrorist" moves from "those who kill Americans", down to "those who WANT to kill Americans", down to "those who endanger our nation by questioning official policy"?

Think about it.  Five years ago, no one would have dreamed that today we'd be in 2 wars and on the verge of a third.  No one would have guessed that we'd be allowing wireless wiretapping and searches without ever telling the person.  Who could have predicted that the Prez of the US would actually be standing in the Rose Garden, arguing with reporters over why the US, and only the US, should be allowed to toture people?

Crazy shit.  Curb it now of it's gonna get worse folks.  We keep up this slide and in 5 years, talking bad about bush (or condi, then) might just get you tortured and denied counsel, because you're a "suspected terrorist".

Too late on #3, Rob, they already labelled a bunch of teachers & librarians in the USA terrorists?

[rcody04]

Yes, and yes. If it involves war. War is not meant to be nice, right? Since when are there rules in war? Like in a fight, I will do anything to win, pull hair, bite, eye gouge anything to win so why does the same not apply. It irritates me that people say it is inhumane. Who cares, they are trying to kill you and your country so why not win by any means necessary. For example, when they cut the guys head off and posted it on the internet for the world to see. I would have done the same thing, you bring your ass to where you don't belong and try to kill me, I am going to do any thing necessary to get in your head and ultimate win the war. I don't think the things done in torture are wrong sure it may not be the niceest thing in the world but damn when the person got tortured what where they problay trying to do..... kill the torturer or someone on their side or maybe even get info that would lead to the killing or capture of their people? Can you blame them, honestly. Imagine having to sit in your home with guns and bombs going off outside, think if that were your neighboor hood, what would you do to someone who was trying to take that away from you.... i would torture them until they gave me the info i wanted or died. Its a fucking war. Get over it, its not like the people who receive the torture did not put themselves in the postion not to be captured. But then again I am only a red blooded sourthern boy so what would I know.........

[Colossus_500]

So becuase they are not citizens of the USA we can do what ever we want to them?

If these non-citizens are killing Americans?  YES   And, OzmO, you KNOW that there us much more than what you would like to make this out to be. 

So becuase they didn't subcribe or were invovled in the Geneva Convention it's ok we:   Do on to them , but it's not ok they do on to us?  Aren't we allegedly a christian nation?  Or is that at our convenience only?

Our means of torture (ala the Red Hot Chili Peppers or stripping them down naked) is not the same kind of torture that you are trying to equate with that of these religious fanatics (whom on another thread you seem to agree upon their violent tactics).  It's not a matter of convenience. Let me ask you then, if we know why the US is using "torture" tactics, why are the Taliban, Al Quada, other Islamic fascists torturing US citizens?  What are they gaining out of it?   

let's compare the torture tactics

Red Hot Chili Peppers music and sleep deprivation vs....hmmmm, let's see.... MURDER (videotaped beheadings)

I don't see a likeness.