Poll: Do you support torture?

[Colossus_500]

I wouldn't step on your neck either, ...you're way too big for that (doesn't mean I wouldn't want to, and doesn't mean I don't fantasize about it)  

lol!!!      Yeah, it's kind of hard to squish a 21 1/2 - 22 inch neck!    But i know you'd give it your best shot.   But i'm glad to know that you wouldn't really do that to me if ever given the chance. (sphew-wipes forehead).  

...but seriously, what do you think Jesus would say about your attitude?

Is it keeping with his teachings, ...or would he say Satan is creeping into your heart? seriously? WWJD?

You know biblical history tells us that God ordered even women and children slaughtered at times in the Old Testament.  And if I am wrong in my thinking, Jesus would lovingly tell me so.  He would help me see my error, just as he would you or anyone else.  That's  what's so awesome about Him.     When Jesus returns to this earth, do you think he's going to follow the "Geneva" rules?  

[Colossus_500]

That's only an option for reasonable people. Guys who think like you usually demand myway or the highway,
...or torture. 

WWJD?

You would say that you are a person of reason?  You don't have a "my way or the highway" mentality?   

[Al-Gebra]

lol!!!      Yeah, it's kind of hard to squish a 21 1/2 - 22 inch neck!   

no way . . . do you weight-train your neck?

[OzmO]

Thanks,  and I see your points as well.
Then you have to be saddened at the thought of times in biblical history where God ordered every man, woman, AND child murdered during war.  And no, I'm not equating America with God, but I say this because things happen that we don't necessarily agree with.  That's what I brought up the chicken analogy.
Can we agree to disagree?

Sure we can agree to disagree.  I respect your views even though i may not agree.  That's the beauty of America

Regardless if GOD was invovled or not.  I do not believe in killing innocnent women and children.  The GOD i know doesn't do such a thing.  I guess that's why i don't believe the BIBLe word for word, but that's another discussion. 

[Camel Jockey]

1.  Do you support the use of torture by the US Govt, used against people we catch overseas, to get info which is important for national security?

2.  Do you support the use of torture by other nations, used against US military/intel officers captured overseas, when these countries feel it is important for their nat'l security?

The US government itself should not be able to feel that they're justified in using torture.

Let's face the facts, there have been many detained and released, and these individuals were later shown to be completely innocent of any wrong doing and they were illegally held by the US government.

The problem here is that there's no other branch checking the US government's actions to see if they're justified or not, which gives the US government the right to do whatever the hell it wants.

[Colossus_500]

Sure we can agree to disagree.  I respect your views even though i may not agree.  That's the beauty of America

Regardless if GOD was invovled or not.  I do not believe in killing innocnent women and children.  The GOD i know doesn't do such a thing.  I guess that's why i don't believe the BIBLe word for word, but that's another discussion. 

Bro, we better stop with the God talk, or else our post will get pulled.     lol   

[Colossus_500]

no way . . . do you weight-train your neck?

other than shrugs, not really. 

[240 is Back]

The US government itself should not be able to feel that they're justified in using torture.

If Bush's bill passes, he'll be able to systematically order 5, or 5 thousand, or 50,000 people starved, tortured, etc, to "get info" he needs.    I mean, is that not the most unreal shit you've ver heard?  

Let's face the facts, there have been many detained and released, and these individuals were later shown to be completely innocent of any wrong doing and they were illegally held by the US government.

1500 rounded up after 911.  Held without bond, without seeing a judge.  Just held. A year later all but 6 had been released.  no apology, no anything.  Just released after sitting in a cell for 2, 4, 8, or 12 months.

Did they get their constitutional rights, Al Gebra?

The problem here is that there's no other branch checking the US government's actions to see if they're justified or not, which gives the US government the right to do whatever the hell it wants.

The executive branch (white house and prez) is the wild branch calling for all of this.  Congress and the Judicial branch are fighting it.  Problem is, the exec branch keeps finding creative ways to "just do it" in the name of nat'l security, and using the vague threat of "terrorism" to justify anything.   Yes, there is terrorism.  But no, we don't have to shit on constitution to fight it.

[Soul Crusher]

If you support torture for America’s enemies then in effect, you support it for American servicemen (and women) when they are captured in the future (and they will be).  It’s not a coincidence that Bush and Cheney, neither of which saw armed combat, are so eager to alter U.S. compliance with the Geneva conventions while those who have seen combat (McCain, Powell, etc.) are opposed to it.

Their rhetoric notwithstanding, Bush and Cheney do not care about American troops.  They don’t care about troops currently serving and they don’t care about troops that will be serving in the future.  McCain and Powell do which is why they will go to the mat to stop the US from torturing.  Doom approves.

For all his tough talk, Cheney only has the courage to pick up a gun when his opponent is a wild pheasant.  How the American people can follow a leader like that… not even Doom can figure out.  

I guess you forgot what happened to Nick Berg and Daniel Pearl and Paul Anderson?

[24KT]

lol!!!      Yeah, it's kind of hard to squish a 21 1/2 - 22 inch neck!

  That's almost as big as my waist.

   But i know you'd give it your best shot.

Don't you know it!    I might need a wrecking ball.  

But i'm glad to know that you wouldn't really do that to me if ever given the chance. (sphew-wipes forehead).

Not so sure now that you told me how big it is. Heck I could do the highland fling on your neck and doubt it would make any difference.  

 
You know biblical history tells us that God ordered even women and children slaughtered at times in the Old Testament.  And if I am wrong in my thinking, Jesus would lovingly tell me so.

I'm not asking you what was written in the bible and ascribed to God. I asked you how this jives with Christianity?

He would help me see my error,

So what we have here is not only an admission of wrong, ...but willful intent to do wrong, with no apparent desire to repent. What would Jesus say about that?

[Camel Jockey]

Also the FBI arrested several Arab men because they bought too many cellphones a few months ago.

Talk about the Federal government overstepping its boundaries. This wont help win the war on terror, but only turn popular opinion against the United States.

[OzmO]

The executive branch (white house and prez) is the wild branch calling for all of this.  Congress and the Judicial branch are fighting it.  Problem is, the exec branch keeps finding creative ways to "just do it" in the name of nat'l security, and using the vague threat of "terrorism" to justify anything.   Yes, there is terrorism.  But no, we don't have to shit on constitution to fight it.

I agree!

that's 3 now.   

[bmacsys]

The mental torture yes. Not the physical torture like ripping fingernails off.

[Colossus_500]

LOL!!!  Jag, it's a good thing people can go back and read what I ACTUALLY SAID and not read your "media" version quotations.  You'd make a wonderful journalist, my friend.  You're a mess!  

[24KT]

I guess you forgot what happened to Nick Berg and Daniel Pearl and Paul Anderson?

You mean the Nick Berg who dies in US custody in Abu Ghraib?  
The very same Nick Berg whose corpse was mutilated on video by those in Abu Ghraib?

[Camel Jockey]

I guess you forgot what happened to Nick Berg and Daniel Pearl and Paul Anderson?

Your intellectual capacity is equal to that of a chimp's. The United States has to hold itself to a higher standard than the people who murdered Nick Berg.

[240 is Back]

The mental torture yes. Not the physical torture like ripping fingernails off.

CIA agents in Gitmo have started taking out their own insurance policies to protect them should they be fired/prosecuted for their actions.  They were attaching car batteries to the genitals of people in Gitmo and were scared of getting in trouble.  

And that is what MSNBC reports.  Imagine the non-sanitized version that the rest of the world is hearing.

[Al-Gebra]

You mean the Nick Berg who dies in US custody in Abu Ghraib? 
The very same Nick Berg whose corpse was mutilated on video by those in Abu Ghraib?

the only explanation for a statment like this is that the spirochetes are wreaking havoc in your brain.

[Butterbean]

Dude... lol!!  Check it out.

The UN says we're lying about Iran's nukes.
The leaders of many countries are saying we knew about 911, and many of them actually warned us.
We won't debate iran on the very points we're ready to bomb them over.
Half of the republicans and most of the Dems believe Bush's torture bill is insane.

So who is pushing the conspiracy now?  All of a sudden, Bush is the leader of a very small faction, and majority of the world - and even his own nation - does not support these measures he wants.

240, I can understand your alarm and you make some good points. 

My questions are: 

1)  Have you looked as closely at the reasons "the other side" presents to make their case as you have the reasons against it?

2)  In keeping w/your conspiracy mindset, how do you determine who you can accept as being truthful and who is lying?



(I hope you enjoyed my Hedgehogic inquisition )




YIC

Stella

[Colossus_500]

240, I can understand your alarm and you make some good points. 

My questions are: 

1)  Have you looked as closely at the reasons "the other side" presents to make their case as you have the reasons against it?

2)  In keeping w/your conspiracy mindset, how do you determine who you can accept as being truthful and who is lying?



(I hope you enjoyed my Hedgehogic inquisition )

Dag, Stella!!!  You beat me to it.      

[24KT]

Look how well torture worked on Kotb, and previous other Islamists, ...turned them real radical didn't it?

[240 is Back]

240, I can understand your alarm and you make some good points. 
My questions are: 
1)  Have you looked as closely at the reasons "the other side" presents to make their case as you have the reasons against it?
2)  In keeping w/your conspiracy mindset, how do you determine who you can accept as being truthful and who is lying?

Brilliant

I know there are conflicts of interest in the UN, of course.  But they said no WMD in iraq, and after everything is over, they were right.  Now they say no nukes in Iran, and whther they are correct or incorrect, Iran hasn't attacked us.

Every nation in the world is involved in an info war.  In England for example, the citizens never saw that there were mock bombing drills in all 4 locations that exact morning, that exact time (a major sign of a state terror attack).  People hadn't even reazlied what happened, and there were 30 men in bomb gear on the scene doing their job.  In all 4 places.  

I know that all countries lie, so I look at the evidence.  Iran says we did 911 with bombs.  US said alQ did it with planes.  Who should I believe? I use my mind and eyes, and realize that the US refuses to test the debris for bomb residue, even tho the collapse was a lot more like an explosion than a collape.  

[Al-Gebra]

240, I can understand your alarm and you make some good points. 

My questions are: 

1)  Have you looked as closely at the reasons "the other side" presents to make their case as you have the reasons against it?

2)  In keeping w/your conspiracy mindset, how do you determine who you can accept as being truthful and who is lying?



(I hope you enjoyed my Hedgehogic inquisition )




YIC

Stella

why, oh why would you encourage him?

[OzmO]

Brilliant

I know there are conflicts of interest in the UN, of course.  But they said no WMD in iraq, and after everything is over, they were right.  Now they say no nukes in Iran, and whther they are correct or incorrect, Iran hasn't attacked us.

Every nation in the world is involved in an info war.  In England for example, the citizens never saw that there were mock bombing drills in all 4 locations that exact morning, that exact time (a major sign of a state terror attack).  People hadn't even reazlied what happened, and there were 30 men in bomb gear on the scene doing their job.  In all 4 places.   

I know that all countries lie, so I look at the evidence.  Iran says we did 911 with bombs.  US said alQ did it with planes.  Who should I believe? I use my mind and eyes, and realize that the US refuses to test the debris for bomb residue, even tho the collapse was a lot more like an explosion than a collape. 

You are joking about this picture aren't you?  You mean a building falling down on itself doesn't create energy to fling things outward?  HMMMMMM

[bmacsys]

You are joking about this picture aren't you?  You mean a building falling down on itself doesn't create energy to fling things outward?  HMMMMMM

There could be explosions from gas or steam pipes too I would think. I also think that buildings going down like these towers did is unchartered territory. Theories are fine but who actually can say for certain the characteristics of buildings this big coming down?