some mindnumbing numbers from WW2

[24KT]

{shhhh} You're robbing them of their fantasies.
All that BS propaganda over the years that they're the saviours of the world, and you come along telling the truth? How dare you?! 

USA USA USA

There that oughtta get them back in their dream state of delusions of grandeur. 

[sarcasm]

if Germany hadn't attacked Russia and had most of their troops on the eastern front they would have destroyed the US's army.

[bmacsys]

 
I'm talking about super-sonic fighter planes, ICBMs and surface detectant radars; all far more advanced than what their opponents have. SUCKMYMUSCLE

You don't have a clue. No plane could fly at supersonic speeds until the late 50's and it was the American fixed wing X15. The ME-262 flew at subsonic speeds. ICBM's? You really are nuts now. The German V2 had a range of a couple hundred miles. The German radar technology was FAR behind the American and British at the time. The Germans were at the vanguard of hi tech weaponry but it made zero impact in WWII. It was a case of much too little too late.

[bmacsys]

The Germans had a great army. Well trained and well disciplined. The Luftwaffa was outclassed by the RAF and literally dwarfed by the US Air Corps. No contest. The Germans had great tanks with major flaws, too heavy and underpowered but the great 88 mm gun. They also didn't have nearly enough of them. They had great small arms. Especially machine guns. Besides the Graf Spee and the Bismark they had no navy to speak of. The U-boats were deathtraps after 1942 with effective American sonar and anti submarine tactics. The British and American air power would have eventually laid seige to Germany anyway you want to slice it. The Germans in no way shape or form could produce anywhere near the numbers of tanks, guns, artillery, subs, battleships, landing craft anything that America could. Its hard to say what would have happened had there been no eastern front. If the political will was there the Americans and British and Canadians could have eventually won a protracted war with Germany. Due to superior numbers of men and vastly greater manufacturing potential.

[OzmO]

Only your misguided interpretation; you've really proved that you have no sense of the big picture beyond America, just like the media here want. It's just reality you're not aware of that the western front was much much easier, involving well-rested, well-supplied allied troops with overwhelming air power and greater numbers.

The tipping point in the war was at Stalingrad and Kursk, well before D-Day. Just as in the first world war, the Americans did all they could to avoid fighting until very late, so they weren't involved until the Germans were already exhausted. The American media and you know almost nothing about this. The Germans had to resort to siphoning gas out of abandoned vehicles to move their equipment, or would sometimes abandon equipment for lack of gas.

As usual you have opened your mouth so wide your face has dissappeared. 

I forgotten more about WW2 than you'll ever know.

Of course you assume i know nothing because that what you do most of the time:  Make an Ass out of your self. 

WW2 has been a interest point of mine for 32 years since i was 9 and visited corregidor and walked part of the death march. 

Of course i know all that stuff,  I know the state of the German Army when America Landed on D-day, how many of the defenders on the beaches were really polish, how our intellegence failed us at point du hoc, etc....

My comment was based on yet another lame atempt by you at bashing the USA or Americans.  Keep trying.

Also, considering the amount of divisions invovled in war on the Eastern front, the civilian deaths etc. of course it's easy to say the Bulk of the war happened there but that doesn't anything take away from all the areas of the world that saw death and destruction.   

[OzmO]

The Germans had a great army. Well trained and well disciplined. The Luftwaffa was outclassed by the RAF and literally dwarfed by the US Air Corps. No contest. The Germans had great tanks with major flaws, too heavy and underpowered but the great 88 mm gun. They also didn't have nearly enough of them. They had great small arms. Especially machine guns. Besides the Graf Spee and the Bismark they had no navy to speak of. The U-boats were deathtraps after 1942 with effective American sonar and anti submarine tactics. The British and American air power would have eventually laid seige to Germany anyway you want to slice it. The Germans in no way shape or form could produce anywhere near the numbers of tanks, guns, artillery, subs, battleships, landing craft anything that America could. Its hard to say what would have happened had there been no eastern front. If the political will was there the Americans and British and Canadians could have eventually won a protracted war with Germany. Due to superior numbers of men and vastly greater manufacturing potential.

The Germans wold have likely won, or at least be a postiion to sue for peace, if it weren't for several very bad mistakes by Hitler:

1.  Dunkirk

2.  2 front war

3.  Giving up on the Battle of Britian

4.  The focus on expensive weapons vs. Mass producing cheap ones.

5.  Indecision on focusing on Stalingrad, Lenigrad vs. Moscow. 

[OzmO]

You don't have a clue. No plane could fly at supersonic speeds until the late 50's and it was the American fixed wing X15. The ME-262 flew at subsonic speeds. ICBM's? You really are nuts now. The German V2 had a range of a couple hundred miles. The German radar technology was FAR behind the American and British at the time. The Germans were at the vanguard of hi tech weaponry but it made zero impact in WWII. It was a case of much too little too late.

One thing they were well ahead of us at was Jet technology.  they were at least 10 years ahead of us.  No that it made much of a difference especially since Hitler policy on using the m-262 was in effective.  And just think, if events happened differently, they might have had the time to create a nuclear bomb before we did.

[bmacsys]

One thing they were well ahead of us at was Jet technology.  they were at least 10 years ahead of us.  No that it made much of a difference especially since Hitler policy on using the m-262 was in effective.  And just think, if events happened differently, they might have had the time to create a nuclear bomb before we did.

Cool stuff Ozmo. I would say the allies executed their war plan better than the German Wermacht.

[bmacsys]

The Germans wold have likely won, or at least be a postiion to sue for peace, if it weren't for several very bad mistakes by Hitler:

1.  Dunkirk

2.  2 front war

3.  Giving up on the Battle of Britian

4.  The focus on expensive weapons vs. Mass producing cheap ones.

5.  Indecision on focusing on Stalingrad, Lenigrad vs. Moscow. 

Ozmo, ever read the book "The fatherland"?

[OzmO]

Cool stuff Ozmo. I would say the allies executed their war plan better than the German Wermacht.

Yeah, strategically we did, but on the battle field, at company level, the Germans were the best army hands down i believe.  (until you shot the offiicers) 

[OzmO]

Ozmo, ever read the book "The fatherland"?

I never have.  Right now, I'm reading "Tanks in the Mud" and book about a German Panzer commander named Otto Carius who was decorated with the Iron cross. 

Is it a good book?  Can i get it at Borders or Barnes?

[bmacsys]

I never have.  Right now, I'm reading "Tanks in the Mud" and book about a German Panzer commander named Otto Carius who was decorated with the Iron cross. 

Is it a good book?  Can i get it at Borders or Barnes?

Its a pretty good book. The Germans defeated the Soviet Union. Germany and the Western allies made peace. America defeated Japan. The USA and Germany are the two super powers. The book is written by Robert Harris. He had another book that was good. "Selling Hitler" Both are readily available on eBay hardcover for pretty cheap.

[JOHN MATRIX]

The Germans had a great army. Well trained and well disciplined. The Luftwaffa was outclassed by the RAF and literally dwarfed by the US Air Corps. No contest. The Germans had great tanks with major flaws, too heavy and underpowered but the great 88 mm gun. They also didn't have nearly enough of them. They had great small arms. Especially machine guns. Besides the Graf Spee and the Bismark they had no navy to speak of. The U-boats were deathtraps after 1942 with effective American sonar and anti submarine tactics. The British and American air power would have eventually laid seige to Germany anyway you want to slice it. The Germans in no way shape or form could produce anywhere near the numbers of tanks, guns, artillery, subs, battleships, landing craft anything that America could. Its hard to say what would have happened had there been no eastern front. If the political will was there the Americans and British and Canadians could have eventually won a protracted war with Germany. Due to superior numbers of men and vastly greater manufacturing potential.

this is the truth.

the wehrmacht was the best quality fighting force in the world but no matter how you slice it they only had so many resources. germany is half the size of texas. their enemies had many, many times their population. in the end they would have been ground down and defeated by american numbers the same way the soviets did, the same way the Union beat the Confederacy, a case of sheer numbers/resources over quality.

[OzmO]

this is the truth.

the wehrmacht was the best quality fighting force in the world but no matter how you slice it they only had so many resources. germany is half the size of texas. their enemies had many, many times their population. in the end they would have been ground down and defeated by american numbers the same way the soviets did, the same way the Union beat the Confederacy, a case of sheer numbers/resources over quality.

Absolutly true, the only way they could have won a "peace" was a delay in their ultimate defeat allowing them to get an A-bomb.  Also if they hadn't invaded Russia and ahnilated the BEF at Dunkirk instead allowing Goring to just bomb them, they could have kept France and prolonged the war also.

[suckmymuscle]

You don't have a clue. No plane could fly at supersonic speeds until the late 50's and it was the American fixed wing X15. The ME-262 flew at subsonic speeds. ICBM's? You really are nuts now. The German V2 had a range of a couple hundred miles. The German radar technology was FAR behind the American and British at the time. The Germans were at the vanguard of hi tech weaponry but it made zero impact in WWII. It was a case of much too little too late.

  No. Completely wrong. The first super-sonic fighter plane in the World was the German Messerschmidt series. The U.S and Britain did not have planes in World War 2 capable of flying at speeds of MACH 1 and over. The V2 was the World's first ICBM, if we go by the literal definition of "Inter Continental Balistic Missile". The maximum theoretical range of the V2 was one thousand miles, or almost the distance beteen Berlin and Rome. The reason why they weren't used for targets located at long distances was because the fuel required was too great to compensate for the minimal damage caused by the weapon, and that, at such distances, the accuracy of the V2 was very low. Theoretically, the V2 could expand it's maximum range to three thousand miles, enough to bomb America. It was never done because Germany couldn't afford to spend that much fuel on  single missile and it would hit the target anywhere from 50 to 80 miles off, so it would be a huge waist of resources. Lucky Americans! As for radars, the city of Dusseldorf was evacuated three hours before the bombing raid of the British Air Force; they new it was coming due to their fantastic radars. In fact, the German radars could detect targets flying at altitudes of as little as 300 ft. You're the typical Yanky asshole, who likes to believe that the U.S has always been a World leader in science and technology, when in reality it only became a World scientific power in the 1950s, when it "imported" German scientists. You know nothing of history, so go do your homework before you try to discredit the post of someone who actually has a B.A in History - among other three.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

[OzmO]

  No. Completely wrong. The first super-sonic fighter plane in the World was the German Messerschmidt series. The U.S and Britain did not have planes in World War 2 capable of flying at speeds of MACH 1 and over. The V2 was the World's first ICBM, if we go by the literal definition of "Inter Continental Balistic Missile". The maximum theoretical range of the V2 was one thousand miles, or almost the distance beteen Berlin and Rome. The reason why they weren't used for targets located at long distances was because the fuel required was too great to compensate for the minimal damage caused by the weapon, and that, at such distances, the accuracy of the V2 was very low. Theoretically, the V2 could expand it's maximum range to three thousand miles, enough to bomb America. It was never done because Germany couldn't afford to spend that much fuel on  single missile and it would hit the target anywhere from 50 to 80 miles off, so it would be a huge waist of resources. Lucky Americans! As for radars, the city of Dusseldorf was evacuated three hours before the bombing raid of the British Air Force; they new it was coming due to their fantastic radars. In fact, the German radars could detect targets flying at altitudes of as little as 300 ft. You're the typical Yanky asshole, who likes to believe that the U.S has always been a World leader in science and technology, when in reality it only became a World scientific power in the 1950s, when it "imported" German scientists. You know nothing of history, so go do your homework before you try to discredit the post of someone who actually has a B.A in History - among other three.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Which fighter in the ME series employed in WW2 went super sonic?  Because the 262 had a max speed of 500 or 520 mph.  Isn't super sonic 800 or something?

[headhuntersix]

Its a wonder that evey argument turns against the US no matter what the topic. Yes US forces were unprepared to fight the Nazis in 1939. the fact that they didn't get involved is in no way  sell out of th Brits. We did as much as we could. We did not have the political will nor the military to fight the war. Oh and how come everybody has an advanced history degree when we're talking history or an MBA when we're talking about economonics. Gimme a break. I could google cut and past and look smart on any topic thats threaded here. There are a million reasons why the nazi's lost. Poor sub unit level leadership..not enough natural resources..hell the French had better tanks at the start of ww2. The soviets produced the best tank at the end. The German economy didn't turn to a full war footing till 43. And despite all the supposed smart guy Generals..they lost major pitched battle after pitched battle on both fronts. The US Army is enamored of the Germans..always has been. Dig a little deeper and all u see is shiny cool toys and a string of losses..kinda like the Indianapolis Colts...when it mattered, they folded. This was a team victory...we helped enough to keep the Soviets and Brits going..the major land battles were won by the Russians...Brit intelligence cracked codes etc etc.

[OzmO]

Its a wonder that evey argument turns against the US no matter what the topic. Yes US forces were unprepared to fight the Nazis in 1939. the fact that they didn't get involved is in no way  sell out of th Brits. We did as much as we could. We did not have the political will nor the military to fight the war. Oh and how come everybody has an advanced history degree when we're talking history or an MBA when we're talking about economonics. Gimme a break. I could google cut and past and look smart on any topic thats threaded here. There are a million reasons why the nazi's lost. Poor sub unit level leadership..not enough natural resources..hell the French had better tanks at the start of ww2. The soviets produced the best tank at the end. The German economy didn't turn to a full war footing till 43. And despite all the supposed smart guy Generals..they lost major pitched battle after pitched battle on both fronts. The US Army is enamored of the Germans..always has been. Dig a little deeper and all u see is shiny cool toys and a string of losses..kinda like the Indianapolis Colts...when it mattered, they folded. This was a team victory...we helped enough to keep the Soviets and Brits going..the major land battles were won by the Russians...Brit intelligence cracked codes etc etc.

They are just haters!   

[headhuntersix]

Surface historians..read a few books and bcome experts. 

[24KT]

Surface historians..read a few books and bcome experts. 

Hi honey     glad to see ya. keep dodging those IED's   

[headhuntersix]

Jag..how are u. Ramadan in 4 days..its like if all catholics decided to fast for lent then go blow up jewish temples..i can't wait.

[Lord Humungous]

"Romell, you magnificent son of a bitch, i read your book!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

haha priceless! I think ive watched that movie at least 100 times

[bmacsys]

  No. Completely wrong. The first super-sonic fighter plane in the World was the German Messerschmidt series. The U.S and Britain did not have planes in World War 2 capable of flying at speeds of MACH 1 and over. The V2 was the World's first ICBM, if we go by the literal definition of "Inter Continental Balistic Missile". The maximum theoretical range of the V2 was one thousand miles, or almost the distance beteen Berlin and Rome. The reason why they weren't used for targets located at long distances was because the fuel required was too great to compensate for the minimal damage caused by the weapon, and that, at such distances, the accuracy of the V2 was very low. Theoretically, the V2 could expand it's maximum range to three thousand miles, enough to bomb America. It was never done because Germany couldn't afford to spend that much fuel on  single missile and it would hit the target anywhere from 50 to 80 miles off, so it would be a huge waist of resources. Lucky Americans! As for radars, the city of Dusseldorf was evacuated three hours before the bombing raid of the British Air Force; they new it was coming due to their fantastic radars. In fact, the German radars could detect targets flying at altitudes of as little as 300 ft. You're the typical Yanky asshole, who likes to believe that the U.S has always been a World leader in science and technology, when in reality it only became a World scientific power in the 1950s, when it "imported" German scientists. You know nothing of history, so go do your homework before you try to discredit the post of someone who actually has a B.A in History - among other three.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Supersonic speeds are 800+ miles per hour. The ME 262 was pushing 500 MPH. Where the f**k do you get your "facts" from? The British and Americans were far ahead in radar technology. How do you think the RAF decimated the Luftwaffa in the Battle for Britain despite being severely undermanned? By sheer luck? The British had many radar installations and the Germans didn't even realize the importance of them so they didn't even try to destroy them.They just kept bombing London to little effect. The V2 was able to reach Britain from inside France. Theoretically what it could do doesn't mean jack shit. They nor the ME 262 had any impact on the war. Case closed.   You may have a B.A. in bullshitting.

[bmacsys]

The US Army is enamored of the Germans..always has been. Dig a little deeper and all u see is shiny cool toys and a string of losses..kinda like the Indianapolis Colts...when it mattered, they folded. This was a team victory...we helped enough to keep the Soviets and Brits going..the major land battles were won by the Russians...Brit intelligence cracked codes etc etc.

That says it all.

[bmacsys]

haha priceless! I think ive watched that movie at least 100 times

Lord Humongous, why do you have a picture of Wez as your avatar?