Author Topic: some mindnumbing numbers from WW2  (Read 8656 times)

JOHN MATRIX

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some mindnumbing numbers from WW2
« on: September 17, 2006, 12:23:46 AM »
just to put things in perspective....

in the years we've been in iraq  we've lost around 3000 men total...
in the israeli/lebanon thing it was a bit over 1000 in 20-something days...
and people were making it sound like the end of the world/start of WW3...

now a life is a life and any loss is regrettable and their sacrifice was just as worthy as any other, but here are some stats that will blow your fucking mind from the Germany-Soviet war ALONE...this particular conflict was the worst ever in history by a huge margin; usually overshadowed by the western front, which paled in comparison. in only FOUR years from 1941-45:

over 20 MILLION soviets, a large percentage innocent civilians, were KILLED.

an average of almost 600 per Minute

around 14,000 per DAY

this is roughly the equivalent of over four 9/11's PER DAY for FOUR YEARS.
 

onlyme

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Re: some mindnumbing numbers from WW2
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2006, 01:45:12 AM »
My dad was in WWII.  He was in the ski patrol in the Army in the Aleutian Islands

Nordic Superman

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Re: some mindnumbing numbers from WW2
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2006, 02:59:57 AM »
over 20 MILLION soviets, a large percentage innocent civilians, were KILLED.

an average of almost 600 per Minute

The soviets are the forgotten victims in regards to the general public... :-[

600 per minute is just an embarassing state of affairs for the human race... how the fuck could we have done this? :'(
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Hugo Chavez

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Re: some mindnumbing numbers from WW2
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2006, 03:06:44 AM »
The soviets are the forgotten victims in regards to the general public... :-[

600 per minute is just an embarassing state of affairs for the human race... how the f**k could we have done this? :'(
I'm shocked you say this... good post ;D

pumpster

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Re: some mindnumbing numbers from WW2
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2006, 05:00:40 AM »
I doubt most Americans ever knew that they were part of the "easy", civilized Western front during the war. Same thing in the Pacific.

sarcasm

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Re: some mindnumbing numbers from WW2
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2006, 08:19:11 AM »
"Romell, you magnificent son of a bitch, i read your book!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
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bmacsys

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Re: some mindnumbing numbers from WW2
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2006, 10:56:49 AM »
My dad was in WWII.  He was in the ski patrol in the Army in the Aleutian Islands

The Japanese at one point actually invaded Alaska. They retreated before we got a chance to engage them in combat.
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jwb

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Re: some mindnumbing numbers from WW2
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2006, 01:24:10 PM »
"Romell, you magnificent son of a bitch, i read your book!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
I watched Patton the other day great movie...

OzmO

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Re: some mindnumbing numbers from WW2
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2006, 03:19:35 PM »
I doubt most Americans ever knew that they were part of the "easy", civilized Western front during the war. Same thing in the Pacific.
Another lame jab at America.   Must be getting desperate.  Tiger didn't cooperate and niether did the CFL.

headhuntersix

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Re: some mindnumbing numbers from WW2
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2006, 12:16:08 AM »
Pumpster...are u saying that the War in the pacific was like th western front...ever read "Good Bye darkness" by William Manchester or "With the old Breed" By EB sledge. The combat was every bit as tough and as brutal as combat on the eastern front. U can easily compare anything the Marines/Army faced on Guadalcanal/Iwo/Oki/Bruma etc etc with what Russian and German forces faced in the east. Not to mention/Brit-Anzac forces in New Guinea. Yes the western front was  side show compared to the east.
L

Extreme Muscle

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Re: some mindnumbing numbers from WW2
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2006, 12:19:23 AM »
Now those are some crazy numbers!

bmacsys

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Re: some mindnumbing numbers from WW2
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2006, 02:20:44 PM »
I doubt most Americans ever knew that they were part of the "easy", civilized Western front during the war. Same thing in the Pacific.

The pacific theatre of war was hell. The most intense, bloody battles of the war were fought in the Pacific. Lack of freshwater, blazing heat, malaria, dysentary, kamakazi attacks, drowning, getting eaten by sharks. I could go on.
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JOHN MATRIX

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Re: some mindnumbing numbers from WW2
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2006, 08:55:59 PM »
The pacific theatre of war was hell. The most intense, bloody battles of the war were fought in the Pacific. Lack of freshwater, blazing heat, malaria, dysentary, kamakazi attacks, drowning, getting eaten by sharks. I could go on.
have you heard the infamous story about the japanese unit that was on the isalnd of Ramree? the brits launched a nighttime attack on the japs there and trapped a force of about 1000 japs. the japs were pinned between british fire and the only way out was through a big swamp or marshland that night, so they tried escaping through the swamp. they were attacked by saltwater crocodiles. the brits say they could rear the screams of the japs as dozens of crocs picked them off everywhere. at the end of the ordeal only a timy fraction made it through the swamp alive-i forgot the exact number but it was tiny. literally hundreds of japs, many already wounded by bullets, were finished off by saltwater crocodiles that night.

then of course theres the USS Indianapolis.

but still in sheer numbers, the pacific theater was still not even close to the eastern front.

headhuntersix

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Re: some mindnumbing numbers from WW2
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2006, 09:59:21 PM »
No never numbers wise but as that story just shows....u were fighting in miserable conditions just like the eastern front. The east was a race war..no quarter given on either side.
L

pumpster

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Re: some mindnumbing numbers from WW2
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2006, 10:04:31 PM »
Eastern front involved many more millions of civilian deaths; some in Leningrad ate grass when there was no food. Plus in 1942-43 the winter was brutally cold, a much bigger factor than in the Pacific.

The only equivalent in terms of civilian misery in the Pacific might've been Manchuria and other places like that prior to the beginning of WW II.

That said, the Japanese were horrible to their prisoners.


Leningrad diary:
How agonizing the desire to eat was in the winter of 1941-1942. . . . In the city's empty streets there sometimes appeared trucks carrying the military. I would usually pull some tobacco out of my quilted jacket--if the truck stopped, I would offer it to the men in military overcoats: "Comrades! Have you got any twigs? Here is some tobacco for you!"  They once tossed me a heap of aromatic pine branches. I gnawed on them all the way home. I totally devoured their tender bark and needles.

Yes, in the spring of 1942, grass was as much our salvation as were glue and leather straps. Those had to be prepared and then cooked, which required time and. . . fuel. But grass, it was growing everywhere--in the streets, in empty lots. It even poked through cracks in the asphalt.

As soon as the sun warmed up our devastated and starving Leningrad, green sprouts immediately started forcing their way through all the cracks. There were no more dogs in the city--all of them had been eaten. Children, looking more like old men, were not running around trampling down the grass, and besides, there were so few of them left in the city. The grass kept growing.

It was easy to cut heaps of new spring chamomile--its fluffy and aromatic little leaves went so well with the tender feather grass, which usually grows in the shade, close to houses. In the past it was used as food for birds. I made a delicious salad out of it to supplement the morning portion of our bread ration, which we received at 5:30 in the morning in a former bakery lit by two dim kerosene lamps. A portion of this grass and the remnants of the bread ration would be left for an evening meal.

And then there were the sticky little linden leaves of spring! You could eat them, or you could make soup out of them. And the sour leaves of barberries! And shepherd's purse! It says in science books that the latter helps to fight vitamin deficiency and scurvy. But there was not time for studying science books, whereas the feeling of hunger was always present. And my basket was filling up with all kinds of grasses.

How grateful I am to it, my dear, green, fresh, dewy grass! In the years since then, much has gradually disappeared from memory, but the memory of those bright spring mornings will never fade.

pumpster

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Re: some mindnumbing numbers from WW2
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2006, 10:32:17 PM »
Quote
Pumpster...are u saying that the War in the pacific was like th western front...ever read "Good Bye darkness" by William Manchester or "With the old Breed" By EB sledge. The combat was every bit as tough and as brutal as combat on the eastern front. U can easily compare anything the Marines/Army faced on Guadalcanal/Iwo/Oki/Bruma etc etc with what Russian and German forces faced in the east. Not to mention/Brit-Anzac forces in New Guinea. Yes the western front was  side show compared to the east.
The fighting was indeed harsh because the Japanese would fight to the last and were well dug in, but they didn't have comparable equipment, supplies or training. Thus the actual ratio of American to Jap deaths was quite low. 

On the Western front the well-rested Americans were fighting decimated German armies that had been at war for years, many of whom were in recovery mode from the eastern front or were  units comprised of older veterans who'd been drafted. Plus the fact that the Germans had no significant air force on the western front or it would have been much harder, more of an even playing field.

Quote
Another lame jab at America.   Must be getting desperate.
Only your misguided interpretation; you've really proved that you have no sense of the big picture beyond America, just like the media here want. It's just reality you're not aware of that the western front was much much easier, involving well-rested, well-supplied allied troops with overwhelming air power and greater numbers.

The tipping point in the war was at Stalingrad and Kursk, well before D-Day. Just as in the first world war, the Americans did all they could to avoid fighting until very late, so they weren't involved until the Germans were already exhausted. The American media and you know almost nothing about this. The Germans had to resort to siphoning gas out of abandoned vehicles to move their equipment, or would sometimes abandon equipment for lack of gas.




Dos Equis

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Re: some mindnumbing numbers from WW2
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2006, 11:00:16 PM »

That said, the Japanese were horrible to their prisoners.


And when they didn't want to house and/or feed prisoners, they massacred them.  "Rape of Nanking" is a terrifying book about the Japanese invasion of China.  I think it's one of the worst massacres in recorded history.  Just brutal. 

Al-Gebra

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Re: some mindnumbing numbers from WW2
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2006, 11:02:15 PM »
And when they didn't want to house and/or feed prisoners, they massacred them.  "Rape of Nanking" is a terrifying book about the Japanese invasion of China.  I think it's one of the worst massacres in recorded history.  Just brutal. 

did you know the author of rape of nanking committed suicide?

Dos Equis

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Re: some mindnumbing numbers from WW2
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2006, 11:03:25 PM »
did you know the author of rape of nanking committed suicide?

Iris Chang?  Didn't know that? 

Al-Gebra

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Re: some mindnumbing numbers from WW2
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2006, 11:13:34 PM »
did or didn't?

if you didn't, she was only 36

Dos Equis

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Re: some mindnumbing numbers from WW2
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2006, 11:23:09 PM »
did or didn't?

if you didn't, she was only 36

I didn't know.  November 04.  I was up to my eyeballs in work.  Completely missed that story.  I can't believe it.  She was bipolar.  Suffered from major depression.  Big loss.  Her book is one of the most powerful I've ever read.  I still remember having to put it down several times because it was so graphic. 

Al-Gebra

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Re: some mindnumbing numbers from WW2
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2006, 11:31:55 PM »
At the time of her death, she was researching a book on American soldiers who served in tank units on the Bataan peninsula before World War II, many of whom were captured and imprisoned by the Japanese. In the course of her research several months ago, Ms. Chang became severely depressed and had to be hospitalized, Ms. Rabiner (her agent) said

i think she shot herself w a handgun . . . you've got to be pretty far gone to do that. Did your copy of Rape of Nanking have pictures? I can't remember if i saw pictures in the book or if it was in some other book.

Dos Equis

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Re: some mindnumbing numbers from WW2
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2006, 11:37:35 PM »
At the time of her death, she was researching a book on American soldiers who served in tank units on the Bataan peninsula before World War II, many of whom were captured and imprisoned by the Japanese. In the course of her research several months ago, Ms. Chang became severely depressed and had to be hospitalized, Ms. Rabiner (her agent) said

i think she shot herself w a handgun . . . you've got to be pretty far gone to do that. Did your copy of Rape of Nanking have pictures? I can't remember if i saw pictures in the book or if it was in some other book.

My book has pictures, including beheaded prisoners with their severed genitals in their mouths.  And believe it or not those soldiers did much worse than that. 

JOHN MATRIX

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Re: some mindnumbing numbers from WW2
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2006, 02:16:39 AM »
you have to be prepared to accept tha worst of the worst and just understand that this shit happedned-andstill happens today. you have to accept and understand human nature and how things happen in the worst of circumstances. you cant let this shit bring you down. its not just WW2. there has always been undescribably horrible shit. you judt have to accept that thats how things go.

only a naive moron would kill themselves over this. if today all your peers were cast into the same situation they would act in the same exact ways.

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Re: some mindnumbing numbers from WW2
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2006, 07:30:04 AM »
  Pumpster is correct. 65% of German casualties were inflicted on them by the Soviets, not the Americans. The U.S made the actions of cowards in World War 2, first financing Great Britain and letting the Brits die alone, and then entering the war when the Red Army was only 800 miles from Berlin. The U.S was not even a maor protagonist in the war: essentially, World War II was the conflict between two totalitarian states, one racicist and the other one classist.

  Only a fool, who never fought against the Germans when they are on their game, would believe that Americans would have defeated the Wehrmacht like it was in the year of 1941 fighting on European soil. There is no way that it would be possible to make an amphibious invasion of European soil if Germany focused 100% of it's resoure capacity on the Western Front, and if the German industry were producing it's superb weaponry to full capacity, which was more technologically advanced than anything the Aliies head. I'm talking about super-sonic fighter planes, ICBMs and surface detectant radars; all far more advanced than what their opponents have. The Wehrmacht was the most perfectly developed, organized and specialized army in the history of the World; the culmination of the World's most scientifially military of nations. The end. :o

SUCKMYMUSCLE