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Author Topic: War price on U.S. lives equal to 9/11  (Read 8659 times)
Delusional Liberal
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« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2006, 08:04:46 PM »

You are incredably stupid.
how so? please be specific, what is it that i said do you feel to be untrue?
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« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2006, 08:06:30 PM »

any links to back up this 2 trillion dollar figure?  USA debt is only at 65% of GDP, around 68% of which is 'good' debt such as mortgages etc.

Harvard and Columbia researchers/economists place the estimated cost of the Iraq war, including health care for the thousands of maimed, at $2 trillion.  Source:
http://www.boston.com/news/world/articles/2006/01/08/economists_say_cost_of_war_could_top_2_trillion/

When you consider our national debt is already $8.5T, oil prices are going to jump after election day and DOW is gonna take a dump on Jan 2, things look groovy huh?
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« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2006, 08:11:42 PM »

how is the war in afghanistan a lie? please inform me, im very curious.

We went to war in Afghanistan because of 9/11, right?

Wrong.

June 26 2001, India's govt announced in their newspaper that they planned to assist the US in the upcoming invasion of Afghanistan. Source:
http://www.indiareacts.com/archivefeatures/nat2.asp?recno=10∓ctg=policy

July 2001, a former Pakistani diplomat told the BBC that he was told by senior American officials in mid-July that military action against Afghanistan would go ahead by the middle of October. Source:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1550366.stm

Now, would the US population have supported a war in Afghanistan?  The answer would be hell no.  If only some sudden event could occur which would motivate the US people to give GWB the permission slip to attack Afghanistan.

A little light starting to come on yet? Wink
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« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2006, 08:17:01 PM »

If only some sudden event could occur which would motivate the US people to give GWB the permission slip to attack Afghanistan.

Now, you're probably rationalizing... "Okay, we planned to invade in mid-October.  Maybe 911 was just a huge coincidence!"

That might work, if in fact the White House hadn't been given very specific information about 9/11 from twelve nations we consider allies.  A total of 29 warnings, some of which had detailed info about 5 of the guys, the attack date, the targets, etc.  Source:
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&warning_signs:_specific_cases=foreignIntelligence

So now you know the war in Afghanistan was planned way before 9/11, and that we had a pretty good idea that 9/11 was going to happen.

So you tell me....
What part of "we were surprise attacked so we had to quickly prepare for a war in Afghanistan" isn't a lie?
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Delusional Liberal
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« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2006, 08:22:16 PM »

Harvard and Columbia researchers/economists place the estimated cost of the Iraq war, including health care for the thousands of maimed, at $2 trillion.  Source:
http://www.boston.com/news/world/articles/2006/01/08/economists_say_cost_of_war_could_top_2_trillion/

When you consider our national debt is already $8.5T, oil prices are going to jump after election day and DOW is gonna take a dump on Jan 2, things look groovy huh?

wow. the boston globe, great source, one of the most liberal news papers in the country.  i definitly take their word as gospel.  no way they would post an with article written by a ( much more than likely) liberal with exagerated figures of costs to make the iraq war seem worse than it is.  that would make the republicans look bad, they would never want that to happen.  never.

again, great source of unbiased information.
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« Reply #30 on: October 28, 2006, 08:23:29 PM »

So you tell me....
What part of "we were surprise attacked so we had to quickly prepare for a war in Afghanistan" isn't a lie?

At this point, you're preobably a little freaked, that's cool.   Very normal.  Just as war in iraq was designed to keep Iraqi oil out of the hands of others, the war in Afghanistan was designed to keep Afghani oil out of the hands of others.

We don't need the oil, yet.  But we want it to be there, under our thumb.  We know we'll need it eventually, and we'd prefer the billion muslim pricks over there, who suddenly have internet access and a love for the strengthening Euro, NOT learn about the fortune they're sitting on.  We will manage this oil.  Manage to keep it out of their hands too.  

Aside form the oil, there are other reasons.  Grudges- Israel hates the bastards over there, and Israel has more hands in our banks, military complex, and govt that you probably know.  Longterm mgmt of world resources... we can't have those orientals and arabs, already coming up on 3 billion, becoming 6 billion in the next 15 years.  We'll "manage" their population, but that'll be down the road and you'll probably see it on FOX news as a terrible plague which *luckily* doesn't kill white people.

Wow... it's pretty brilliant when you look at the scope of things.  It's an incredible time to be witnessing history, my friend!  It's out of our hands, so don't get any silly ideas about changing anything, because you cannot.  But if you understand the machinery of the ride, it's often so much more fun Smiley
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« Reply #31 on: October 28, 2006, 08:24:55 PM »

wow. the boston globe, great source, one of the most liberal news papers in the country.  i definitly take their word as gospel.  no way they would post an with article written by a ( much more than likely) liberal with exagerated figures of costs to make the iraq war seem worse than it is.  that would make the republicans look bad, they would never want that to happen.  never.

again, great source of unbiased information.

hey, It is somewhere between $1 and $2T.

Either way, it's $1 to $2T that our kids won't have for social security, education, or health care.  I am sure you can find some more conservative estimates of the war cost, and that's fine.  I'm sure we can agree "a shitload of money we don't have" would adequately describe the war financial costs. Smiley
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Delusional Liberal
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« Reply #32 on: October 28, 2006, 08:28:18 PM »

We went to war in Afghanistan because of 9/11, right?

Wrong.

June 26 2001, India's govt announced in their newspaper that they planned to assist the US in the upcoming invasion of Afghanistan. Source:
http://www.indiareacts.com/archivefeatures/nat2.asp?recno=10∓ctg=policy

July 2001, a former Pakistani diplomat told the BBC that he was told by senior American officials in mid-July that military action against Afghanistan would go ahead by the middle of October. Source:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1550366.stm

Now, would the US population have supported a war in Afghanistan?  The answer would be hell no.  If only some sudden event could occur which would motivate the US people to give GWB the permission slip to attack Afghanistan.

A little light starting to come on yet? Wink

answer me this:

after 9/11, do you think americans wanted something to be done in retaliation to the attacks, something to prevent further attacks? or no?

did, or did not, afghanistan have terrorist training camps, sworn enemies of USA who wish/wished to do americans harm, and could do americans harm, whether or not directly linked to the attacks on 9/11?

was or was not afghanistan an easy target?

yes
yes
yes


it was the perfect target after 9/11.
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« Reply #33 on: October 28, 2006, 08:33:44 PM »

wow. the boston globe, great source, one of the most liberal news papers in the country.

You'd also have to call Harvard and Columbia corrupted liberals.  It was their research, after all.  And, yahoo, reuters, Stanford, NPR, and others.  ABC and Nobel Prize winning economist Joseph E Stiglitz have it at 2.6 Trillion.

It's not about liberal/conservative, boss.  It's dollar and cents, and our childrens' futures.
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« Reply #34 on: October 28, 2006, 08:37:00 PM »

answer me this:

after 9/11, do you think americans wanted something to be done in retaliation to the attacks, something to prevent further attacks? or no?

did, or did not, afghanistan have terrorist training camps, sworn enemies of USA who wish/wished to do americans harm, and could do americans harm, whether or not directly linked to the attacks on 9/11?

was or was not afghanistan an easy target?

yes
yes
yes


it was the perfect target after 9/11.

You ignored my points, DL.  I showed you documented evidence that the US knew 911 was coming, and that we had planned with war with other nations three months ahead of time.  This completely dispels the two notions upon which the war on afghanistan is based.

Afghanistan was not an easy target.  We're still there, 5 years after invading.  The drug export is actually higher now than it was in Aug 2001.  The Taliban is still very strong.  So no, not an easy target.

And yes, the war was justified in the eyes of the American people by 9/11.  My point, which I made very clearly, is that 9/11 was allowed to happen in order to get 290 million Americans to support the wa our govt was secretly planning.  It worked.
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Delusional Liberal
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« Reply #35 on: October 28, 2006, 08:45:08 PM »

hey, It is somewhere between $1 and $2T.

Either way, it's $1 to $2T that our kids won't have for social security, education, or health care.  I am sure you can find some more conservative estimates of the war cost, and that's fine.  I'm sure we can agree "a shitload of money we don't have" would adequately describe the war financial costs. Smiley
ok, ill just take your word for it even without any proof.  like i said dont forget that that money doesnt just dissapear.  it goes back into the USA economy, most of it.  it doesnt dissapear.

USA economy is growing faster than the debt its accumulating, deficit this year, under 250 billion USD, economic growth, over 400billion USD. do the math.  it's a blessing to be able to run a deficit like USA, not a curse.  after the tech bubble burst in 2000, USA borrowed tremendously to prevent from going into a deep recession, which is why it was at record levels.  now an extremely fast growing economy from tax cuts and  a controlled weakening of the dollar to lower the deficit, great how USA can borrow at 1$ and repay at 60-80 cents.  weaker dollar=good for exports, 'bad' for imports, good for debt payments. now if china would strengthen the yuan, that would be great.
theres really no need for these doomsday economic predictions for USA, we have a remarkable economy.

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« Reply #36 on: October 28, 2006, 08:47:21 PM »

ok, ill just take your word for it even without any proof.  like i said dont forget that that money doesnt just dissapear.  it goes back into the USA economy, most of it.  it doesnt dissapear.

USA economy is growing faster than the debt its accumulating, deficit this year, under 250 billion USD, economic growth, over 400billion USD. do the math.  it's a blessing to be able to run a deficit like USA, not a curse.  after the tech bubble burst in 2000, USA borrowed tremendously to prevent from going into a deep recession, which is why it was at record levels.  now an extremely fast growing economy from tax cuts and  a controlled weakening of the dollar to lower the deficit, great how USA can borrow at 1$ and repay at 60-80 cents.  weaker dollar=good for exports, 'bad' for imports, good for debt payments. now if china would strengthen the yuan, that would be great.
theres really no need for these doomsday economic predictions for USA, we have a remarkable economy.



You know nothing about economics.
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Delusional Liberal
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« Reply #37 on: October 28, 2006, 08:50:22 PM »

You'd also have to call Harvard and Columbia corrupted liberals.  It was their research, after all.  And, yahoo, reuters, Stanford, NPR, and others.  ABC and Nobel Prize winning economist Joseph E Stiglitz have it at 2.6 Trillion.

It's not about liberal/conservative, boss.  It's dollar and cents, and our childrens' futures.
ok, lets put the figure at 3 trillion, although way exagerated, doesnt matter.  as long as the USA economy grows faster than the debt it accumulates. which it is and more than likely will contiunue to do so.
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Delusional Liberal
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« Reply #38 on: October 28, 2006, 08:51:50 PM »

You know nothing about economics.
ok. why, because it's not a bias misleading doomsday economic outlook,but factually accurate? enlighten me.  what did i say that's untrue.
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« Reply #39 on: October 28, 2006, 08:53:14 PM »

ok, ill just take your word for it even without any proof.  like i said dont forget that that money doesnt just dissapear.  it goes back into the USA economy, most of it.  it doesnt dissapear.

I'm sorry.  This is untrue.  Our borrowing is written against the contents of teh Federal Reserve- in essence, the US assets.  We borrow this money from large banks who take promissory notes against US land.  This is how it works.  

We were on the edge of a financial collapse in mid-2001.  The tech bubble burst 9 months earlier and there was no recovery.  9/11 actually saved our asses, believe it or not.  Remember "we can defeat the terrorists by going out and spending!" from Bush? LOL...

Well, the defense budget got boosted (meaning the US pop proxied Congress approved add'l borrowing for war costs).  Mfng/production spiked, 100,000-200,000 US forces were suddenly very employed. This helps our economy.  War is GOOD for the economy, so as long as Congress keeps approving borrowing.
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Delusional Liberal
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« Reply #40 on: October 28, 2006, 08:56:19 PM »

I'm sorry.  This is untrue.  Our borrowing is written against the contents of teh Federal Reserve- in essence, the US assets.  We borrow this money from large banks who take promissory notes against US land.  This is how it works.  

We were on the edge of a financial collapse in mid-2001.  The tech bubble burst 9 months earlier and there was no recovery.  9/11 actually saved our asses, believe it or not.  Remember "we can defeat the terrorists by going out and spending!" from Bush? LOL...

Well, the defense budget got boosted (meaning the US pop proxied Congress approved add'l borrowing for war costs).  Mfng/production spiked, 100,000-200,000 US forces were suddenly very employed. This helps our economy.  War is GOOD for the economy, so as long as Congress keeps approving borrowing.
yes,last 2 paragraphs i agree with. no argument.
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« Reply #41 on: October 28, 2006, 09:02:31 PM »

It is my belief that things are going to be very good up to election day.

OPEC announced a raise in oil prices starting Nov 1.  This will take a week to affect things, so right after Nov 7 elections, Wed AM gas prices will start rising.  (I predicted all this on getbig weeks ago).  Gas prices will go back up.  Shipping costs will go up as a result, as will mnfg.  Stocks will fall (say goodbye to 12,000 DOW).

I could go on, but you get the point.  I believe we're at a falsely inflated high, designed to boost repub numbers at the polls.  Time will tell!
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« Reply #42 on: October 28, 2006, 09:39:40 PM »

Delusional,

Above I showed you evidence that our govt

1) had very good details about 9/11 attacks before they happened, and
2) had mid-Oct war dates planned with other nations several months before 9/11.

Do you now realize that, much like iraq, we are in there over a lie?
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« Reply #43 on: October 28, 2006, 10:06:23 PM »

Delusional,

Above I showed you evidence that our govt

1) had very good details about 9/11 attacks before they happened, and
2) had mid-Oct war dates planned with other nations several months before 9/11.

Do you now realize that, much like iraq, we are in there over a lie?
and i can show you evidence that the moon landing was fake.  i don't care if afghanistan was a 'lie' or not, it was still the perfect target after 9/11.  easy, effective, convincing.
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« Reply #44 on: October 28, 2006, 10:07:49 PM »

and i can show you evidence that the moon landing was fake.  i don't care if afghanistan was a 'lie' or not, it was still the perfect target after 9/11.  easy, effective, convincing.

Men died.  American soldiers died.   

Easy, effective, convincing - of what? For what?
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« Reply #45 on: October 28, 2006, 10:10:24 PM »

240,

All you've got from this smurf is drone rhetoric.  He hasn't backed up a single thing he's posted other making ignorant arguements fit for a idiot.  Anytime you provide any evidence he tries to discount it by saying it's from a liberal source.

I think even Mr I would call this guys delusional. 

I think he actually thinks he will see some of this money we are making over there!  Maybe he thinks he'll see it in a "Neo-Con Bonus Check" in the mail rewarding loyal drones!

His opinion about spreading American Imperialism is at least honest if not misguided and impractical.   
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Delusional Liberal
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« Reply #46 on: October 28, 2006, 10:19:55 PM »

Men died.  American soldiers died.   

Easy, effective, convincing - of what? For what?
so if i understand correctly - you don't support waging war on enemies of USA?   even after 9/11 which was a wake up call and the reason for changed foreign policy twords radical islam.   yes, afghanistan was an easy target.

although you're delusional enough to insist 9/11 and afghanistan are a conspiracy so guess these points hold no ground with you.
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« Reply #47 on: October 28, 2006, 10:23:22 PM »

so if i understand correctly - you don't support waging war on enemies of USA?   even after 9/11 which was a wake up call and the reason for changed foreign policy twords radical islam.   yes, afghanistan was an easy target.

although you're delusional enough to insist 9/11 and afghanistan are a conspiracy so guess these points hold no ground with you.

I agree that we must fight terrorism, and wage war on those who attack us.  We should do it by bringing justice to those responsible, then by tightening our borders and finding alternative fuel sources.  But pre-emptively bombing those who don't like us, and losing 5 men a day, isn't the right way to do it.

Just because a country is "an easy target" doesn't mean we should bomb them.

You haven't addressed my points.  Why would several govts announce in their newspapers BEFORE 9/11, that we'd be invading in mid-October? 
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Delusional Liberal
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« Reply #48 on: October 28, 2006, 10:47:47 PM »

Quote
I agree that we must fight terrorism, and wage war on those who attack us.  We should do it by bringing justice to those responsible, then by tightening our borders and finding alternative fuel sources.  But pre-emptively bombing those who don't like us, and losing 5 men a day, isn't the right way to do it.

Just because a country is "an easy target" doesn't mean we should bomb them.
  you make it seem as if we should have only gone after the people directly responsible for 9/11 or directly responsible for whatever attack, that's ridiculous.  that's not 'waging war' as you put it, that's not 'fighting terrorism' that's apprehending criminals.   this is a war against radical islam.  afghanistan was full of radical islamists, our enemy, and again, and easy target therefore the perfect target, a completely justified war.
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Delusional Liberal
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« Reply #49 on: October 28, 2006, 10:54:11 PM »



You haven't addressed my points.  Why would several govts announce in their newspapers BEFORE 9/11, that we'd be invading in mid-October? 
why? i don't know, i don't even know if that's true.  do you have a non CT source?  still doesnt change anything i said.
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