Hey 240:

[240 is Back]

So what?  this isn't the world of internet BB b.s. stop with the conpiracy theories and look at what these contries want to do to us and Israel and Christians/non Muslims.  they have been in office, they haven't used it to get elected, they will do more to try and destroy us.  Maybe not overt but through financing, backing, supplying those that will carry out the attacks, ie, 9/11.  It's proven that Iran supplies and trains terrorists, Hezbollah recently is the best example.  They know better than to attack us here for several big reasons, one being we would destroy them. The other is the nuke threat.  Maybe not as big a factor as the cold war though.

Calling for a complete 911 Investigation isn't a 'conspiracy theory".  It's the desire of an American to get the full story behind what allowed 3000 people to die that AM.   The 911 COmmission admits their report was very incomplete.  I would like to know the truth about just why NORAD failed that day.   Wouldn't you?

That line is not the reason Bush was elected, you aren't really saying that that line was the reason he was elected are you?  The sooner more people see it and are ready for it the better.  this goes beyond politics now.  this is the radical leaders ramping up their rhetoric and calling much more than internet discussions and insults.

Bush was elected partly because people didn't like Clinton's continual skirmishes and involvement overseas, and he vowed to stop being the world's policeman.  There were other reasons too, of course.   Do you think he kept his word about that?

[24KT]

That was a response to the kidnap of an Isreali soldier... So that WAS the case since Hezbullah committed the first hostile act. 

Yes Hezbollah kidnapped Israeli soldier INSIDE Lebanon's borders. Why were they there to begin with?

Hezbollah wanted to negotiate their release, as they have done with Israel numerous times in the past, instead Israel bombed Lebanon.   Since that time we haven't heard a thing bout those soldiers have we? What of their fate? No one mentions them, ...not even Israel who bombed an entire country over them. That speaks volumes about their motives, which clearly had nothing to do with the soldiers to begin with.

I shouldn't even have to say why Iraq's reactors were taken. 

We all know why Iraq reactors were destroyed.

Anyone who doesn't think Saddam started all this shit and the Insurgents keep it going has thier head up thier ass and should defect to Venezuela.

Saddam didn't start a thing. The US started it, removed him from office, and now they're up to their eyeballs in alligators. 

Iran will never threaten us?  Ignorance.  Be ashamed.

Iran would have to develop nuclear weapons and ICBMs before they could threaten the US. By being a party to the nuclear non-proliferation treaty and by opening their doors to the IATA, and UN inspectors, they will not be able to develop nuclear weapons without people knowing about it. People can make all sorts of threats, ...however, without the ability to carry them out, those threats are simply empty rhetoric, ...useful only to their enemies who then take those words and spin & twist and fear monger among their own citizens to garner approval for immoral, unjust, and uncivilized behaviour.

[Brixtonbulldog]

Isreal has every right to pursue terrorists into Lebanon.  That IS why they were there.  And considering that Hezbullah has more power there than the Gov't Isreal was completely justified.

Isreal, along with the US, does not negotiate with terrorists.  You think negotiations with Hezbullah would have yielded a reasonable compromise?  Give me a break.

We had every reason to go to Iraq.  Saddam started everything.  I realize you could give a fuck all for this country and every freedom loving nation and citizen the world over but for those of us living in the reality that people continually do shitty things to one another are glad something was done about it and glad we're STILL doing something about it.

And if you don't think Iran is heading down the same road, think again. 

[240 is Back]

Isreal has every right to pursue terrorists into Lebanon.  That IS why they were there.  And considering that Hezbullah has more power there than the Gov't Isreal was completely justified.

Isreal, along with the US, does not negotiate with terrorists.  You think negotiations with Hezbullah would have yielded a reasonable compromise?  Give me a break.

I don't know why anyone outside of Israel or Leb is worried about this.  It is between two countries.  Let them deal with their own BS.  Neither side is a saint in this battle.

We had every reason to go to Iraq.  Saddam started everything.  I realize you could give a f**k all for this country and every freedom loving nation and citizen the world over but for those of us living in the reality that people continually do shitty things to one another are glad something was done about it and glad we're STILL doing something about it.

Why did we go into iraq?

And if you don't think Iran is heading down the same road, think again. 

Who gives a rats ass what Iran does?  Is it worth losing your life, or the life of your only child, or crippling the US economy with another war?  if for no other reason, look at it this way; The price tag of the warn in iraq, with long term healthcare costs, will be Two trillion dollars.  Add Afghanistan.  Add Iran.  Add Syria or whoever else is next.

Do you want your kids to grow up in a depression here in the US?  I know it's easy to work your 9-5 and use credit cards and talk about who we should be disciplining, but think about what happens when the economy here tanks (and if you don't know it's coming, it is).  We're using debt to finance the wars - borrowing like never before.  Our nation cannot sustain that.  When these soldiers start coming home, this economy cannot absorb them.  And we sure cannot afford another war.  Do you see a third option?

[shutupandtrain88]

Calling for a complete 911 Investigation isn't a 'conspiracy theory".  It's the desire of an American to get the full story behind what allowed 3000 people to die that AM.   The 911 COmmission admits their report was very incomplete.  I would like to know the truth about just why NORAD failed that day.   Wouldn't you?

Bush was elected partly because people didn't like Clinton's continual skirmishes and involvement overseas, and he vowed to stop being the world's policeman.  There were other reasons too, of course.   Do you think he kept his word about that?

No, questioning specific events is not a conspiracy theory, stating that there is no evidence that a plane hit the Pentagon, when there is ample evidence of a plane, claiming the gov't set explosives to bring down the towers is a conspiracy theater.  Pointing people to kook sites with doctored videos and not answering questions when asked and just spouting off rhetoric is also.

And attacking those complicit with attacking us and harboring/training terrorists is not a police action.  Haiti, Mogadishu, Bosnia all qualify more as Police actions than Afghanistan and Iraq.  NO politician ever keeps his word

[Brixtonbulldog]

Son, I'm serving right now.  I would rather have my kids grow up struggling to make ends meet then struggling to avoid terrorist attacks or chemical weapons.

The fact that the US and our allies have let no country or group (Iraq, Iran, Al-Quada, etc.) get strong enough to wage an all out war against the west is a great big accomplishment on our part by people who think that we should eliminate problems before they become massive problems.  

It's indifferent people like yourself... and ignorant people like Jag who halt progress and keep me, my family, and my country that much farther from safety and prosperity and that much closer to danger.  

I work no 9 to 5 guy.  And while you piss heads live in a reality based on CNN some of us have a different vantage point of the world.

[24KT]

Isreal has every right to pursue terrorists into Lebanon.  That IS why they were there.  And considering that Hezbullah has more power there than the Gov't Isreal was completely justified.

If you think that was the case, I'd like to respectfully suggest you get better informed about the whole situation. Those soldiers were there as bait, knowing full well they would be taken

Isreal, along with the US, does not negotiate with terrorists.  You think negotiations with Hezbullah would have yielded a reasonable compromise?  Give me a break.

But Israel negotiates with the USA all the time. Israel also negotiates with Hezbollah ALL the time, sometimes infact trading the bodies of 3 dead Isrealis for hundreds of live Lebanese civilians. Israel invented the policy, ...infact wrote the book on it. This time however, they chose to bomb a country.[/quote]

We had every reason to go to Iraq.  Saddam started everything.

The fact that you keep spouting this line of propaganda should be embarrasing to you and every pro war American on this board. It has well been established the US had no right to go into Iraq to begin with. Having the ability to do something, and having the 'right' to do something are two completely separate things.

I realize you could give a f**k all for this country and every freedom loving nation and citizen the world over

On the contrary, i care very much about America, and the American people. most of my family are Americans, as are most of my friends, ...and that's why it enrages me to see her citizens continually lied to and propagandized by an illegitimate administration hell bent on running the country into the ground for personal gain, profit and the fulfillment of an impossible agenda that will serve no purpose but to visit grief, death, destruction, burdensome debt, and the destruction of the American way of life.

but for those of us living in the reality that people continually do shitty things to one another

Yes, people do shitty things to people, and nations do shitty things to other nations, ...then lie about it at home.

are glad something was done about it and glad we're STILL doing something about it.

Your reality is unreal.  

And if you don't think Iran is heading down the same road, think again. 

If imperialist policy doesn't change, it sure as heck will. Not just Iran, ...but many countries around the world.

[Brixtonbulldog]

Something tells me that the demands of terrorists are unreasonable.  Especially since they would most likely result in even more Isreali dead and most of Isreal handed over to Savages.  Thank G-d Isreal bombed them. 

It's not propaganda.  You're nonsense is completely one-sided.  Why don't you consider the reality that Saddam was a problem as early as the early 80's.  We had EVERY right to go to Iraq.  Every month more evidence is shown linking Saddam to UBL.  Support is support.  And how many people would Saddam have to threaten before it's our concern?  The difference is that you would rather turn the other way while he continued to wreak havoc until one day he suddenly becomes OUR problem and a big one.  Ignorance and nothing more.

This entire statement is a complete lie and falsehood.  But a liberal like you will always choose to stay mislead because it makes your case look better. 

"On the contrary, i care very much about America, and the American people. most of my family are Americans, as are most of my friends, ...and that's why it enrages me to see her citizens continually lied to and propagandized by an illegitimate administration hell bent on running the country into the ground for personal gain, profit and the fulfillment of an impossible agenda that will serve no purpose but to visit grief, death, destruction, burdensome debt, and the destruction of the American way of life."

Yap yap.  Utter nonsense.  You should ascribe that statement to the Clinton years it would have been far more suitable.

[240 is Back]

No, questioning specific events is not a conspiracy theory, stating that there is no evidence that a plane hit the Pentagon, when there is ample evidence of a plane, claiming the gov't set explosives to bring down the towers is a conspiracy theater.  Pointing people to kook sites with doctored videos and not answering questions when asked and just spouting off rhetoric is also.

Ample evidence?  Like a plane, or a video of a plane?  We've been shown neither.  We've been shown debris which would fit in the back of a truck, a hole which would fit a missile perfectly, and 5 frames of a blurry video.  

If you consider that ample evidence, then I'd like to sell you a bridge in Brooklyn.  I'll write the receipt out on a McD napkin and you mail me your $.  Cool?

And attacking those complicit with attacking us and harboring/training terrorists is not a police action.  Haiti, Mogadishu, Bosnia all qualify more as Police actions than Afghanistan and Iraq.

you're a warmonger.  Period.  You prefer war to diplomacy and sanctions.  it's obvious you've never served. Anyone who has served knows that getting shot in your gut in the sands of a country where war could have been avoided, is a shitty way to go.  You probably work at the mall, drive a honda, and like war because you want to try to control something in your life, and feel that our missiles pwning some 19th century pricks on that side of the world is a safe way to feel a little power.

[shutupandtrain88]

Son, I'm serving right now.  I would rather have my kids grow up struggling to make ends meet then struggling to avoid terrorist attacks or chemical weapons.

The fact that the US and our allies have let no country or group (Iraq, Iran, Al-Quada, etc.) get strong enough to wage an all out war against the west is a great big accomplishment on our part by people who think that we should eliminate problems before they become massive problems.  

It's indifferent people like yourself... and ignorant people like Jag who halt progress and keep me, my family, and my country that much farther from safety and prosperity and that much closer to danger.  

hey brixton who is that msg referred to?

I work no 9 to 5 f**cker.  And while you piss heads live in a reality based on CNN some of us have a different vantage point of the world.

[Brixtonbulldog]

Ample evidence?  Like a plane, or a video of a plane?  We've been shown neither.  We've been shown debris which would fit in the back of a truck, a hole which would fit a missile perfectly, and 5 frames of a blurry video.  

If you consider that ample evidence, then I'd like to sell you a bridge in Brooklyn.  I'll write the receipt out on a McD napkin and you mail me your $.  Cool?

you're a warmonger.  Period.  You prefer war to diplomacy and sanctions.  it's obvious you've never served. Anyone who has served knows that getting shot in your gut in the sands of a country where war could have been avoided, is a shitty way to go.  You probably work at the mall, drive a honda, and like war because you want to try to control something in your life, and feel that our missiles pwning some 19th century pricks on that side of the world is a safe way to feel a little power.

Monster assumptions.  Is that anything like redical Islam slaughtering innocent civilians from NY to Tel-Aviv?  Yes, very honorable.

I am from the DC area.  I saw the damn scrapes on the ground leading up to the pentagon where the planes engines made contact with the ground before impact.  Don't be another idiot.  These conspiracy theories are making a fool out of you.

[Brixtonbulldog]

240

[240 is Back]

Son, I'm serving right now.  I would rather have my kids grow up struggling to make ends meet then struggling to avoid terrorist attacks or chemical weapons.

The fact that the US and our allies have let no country or group (Iraq, Iran, Al-Quada, etc.) get strong enough to wage an all out war against the west is a great big accomplishment on our part by people who think that we should eliminate problems before they become massive problems.  

It's indifferent people like yourself... and ignorant people like Jag who halt progress and keep me, my family, and my country that much farther from safety and prosperity and that much closer to danger.  

I work no 9 to 5 f**cker.  And while you piss heads live in a reality based on CNN some of us have a different vantage point of the world.

I'm a diehard republican & conservative.  I just know that 911 was shady and the wars were fruits of this poisoned tree.  When you hear evidence on 911, you don't WANT to believe it, because it would mean you're just a f**king pawn in some power play, not a soldier in a necessary war.  

You got pwned, alright?  Sorry, but the war in afghan was based upon 911, and the taliban offered to turn over bin laden if the US showed any evidence he was involved.  They could have used their heads, shown the proof they claimed they had, and got bin laden in a pine box with not one life lost.  Why would they prefer war when not needed?

And Iraq - we went because of WMD, right?  No.  Now, we went because we wanted to liberate the iraqis?  Um, why is that our job.

I'm sorry, but you are a cog in the war machine.  A small # of people are getting rich off your risks.  I love my country and I support my govt, but both wars were predicated on lies.  I'm sorry if that hurts you to hear it, and I invite you to cuss me out and scream "conspiracy" if you want, but facts is facts, soldier.  I pray you get home safe and we can debate this when you're no longer under these unnecessary stressors.

[240 is Back]

Monster assumptions.  Is that anything like redical Islam slaughtering innocent civilians from NY to Tel-Aviv?  Yes, very honorable.

I am from the DC area.  I saw the damn scrapes on the ground leading up to the pentagon where the planes engines made contact with the ground before impact.  Don't be another idiot.  These conspiracy theories are making a fool out of you.

Weird, because all of the pics taken right after the crash show no scrapes.  Those appeared with the fire trucks.  Sorry boss.

[240 is Back]

I am from the DC area.  I saw the damn scrapes on the ground leading up to the pentagon where the planes engines made contact with the ground before impact.

O RLY?

[Brixtonbulldog]

Weird, because all of the pics taken right after the crash show no scrapes.  Those appeared with the fire trucks.  Sorry boss.

My ass.... I SAW them.  They weren't fucking tire tracks you idiot.  But go on with the Kool-Aid.
 
Thanks for the pics.  But of course they don't show that about 1/8th of a mile a way are clear scrapes fitting the exact specs of the two engines on that flight.  I never said they were right up against the building.

[240 is Back]

I am from the DC area.  I saw the damn scrapes on the ground leading up to the pentagon where the planes engines made contact with the ground before impact.

So um, 520+ MPH, steel engines scraping lawn.  Weird.

Tell me this:
Did the Pentagon pave the lawn with gravel so soon after the crash so heavy equipment can clear rubble, or were they really trying to quickly cover up the undamaged lawn?

[Brixtonbulldog]

I'm a diehard republican & conservative.  I just know that 911 was shady and the wars were fruits of this poisoned tree.  When you hear evidence on 911, you don't WANT to believe it, because it would mean you're just a f**king pawn in some power play, not a soldier in a necessary war.  

You got pwned, alright?  Sorry, but the war in afghan was based upon 911, and the taliban offered to turn over bin laden if the US showed any evidence he was involved.  They could have used their heads, shown the proof they claimed they had, and got bin laden in a pine box with not one life lost.  Why would they prefer war when not needed?

And Iraq - we went because of WMD, right?  No.  Now, we went because we wanted to liberate the iraqis?  Um, why is that our job.

I'm sorry, but you are a cog in the war machine.  A small # of people are getting rich off your risks.  I love my country and I support my govt, but both wars were predicated on lies.  I'm sorry if that hurts you to hear it, and I invite you to cuss me out and scream "conspiracy" if you want, but facts is facts, soldier.  I pray you get home safe and we can debate this when you're no longer under these unnecessary stressors.

Your misconception is that you KNOW anything.

WMD's did exist.  If you had a sec clearance you might know that.

Your "facts" are lies you have chosen to believe. 

Cog in a war machine?  More like someone who knows better. 

[shutupandtrain88]

Ample evidence?  Like a plane, or a video of a plane?  We've been shown neither.  We've been shown debris which would fit in the back of a truck, a hole which would fit a missile perfectly, and 5 frames of a blurry video.  

If you consider that ample evidence, then I'd like to sell you a bridge in Brooklyn.  I'll write the receipt out on a McD napkin and you mail me your $.  Cool?

you're a warmonger.  Period.  You prefer war to diplomacy and sanctions.  it's obvious you've never served. Anyone who has served knows that getting shot in your gut in the sands of a country where war could have been avoided, is a shitty way to go.  You probably work at the mall, drive a honda, and like war because you want to try to control something in your life, and feel that our missiles pwning some 19th century pricks on that side of the world is a safe way to feel a little power.

you know nothing about me, you are an internet junkie.  what missile hit the pentagon?, please show us the evidence.  you are a keyboard warrior. spend the summer at parris island, sleep on a runway waiting to fly to Beirut (there's a clue of when I served).  being shot is a crappy way to go, so is getting hit by a drunk driver, or shot while chasing a drug dealer or going to school but never coming home because of some nutcase.  You have dropped to personal insults which is the norm.  you piss on the sacrifices of all those that have served with your personal attacks.  and besides with your description of someone you don't know, you should know I would never buy a foreign car.  

show me some sensible hard evidence.

[240 is Back]

My ass.... I SAW them.  They weren't fucking tire tracks you idiot.  But go on with the Kool-Aid.
 
Thanks for the pics.  But of course they don't show that about 1/8th of a mile a way are clear scrapes fitting the exact specs of the two engines on that flight.  I never said they were right up against the building.

I'm a fucking idiot with photographic evidence which refutes your claim.  

The "kool-aid" to which you refer would be the original story which said the plane bounced off the lawn.  Pentagon brass told the media that for days.  Then of course, the photos came out from a marine on the scene who caught very early pics with no crater, no impact marks, no engine drags, nothing.  So, they changed their story, got a new flavor of kool-aid, and told us that the plane cruised in at 520 mph, the the engines 24 inches off the groun.

That's right.  In order to make the fuselage hole where it was, the engines would have been 24 inches off the ground.  have you ever flown a 757 jet at 520 mph, 24 inches from the ground?  I bet it's hard.  Specially cause they had to clear a whole lot of traffic just a few hundred feet away from it.  

Who needs physics. We have koolaid!

[240 is Back]

We were originally told that the pentagon lawn had been hit by a plane.   Just listen to what the reports of this horrible crash had to say...
 
"Some eyewitnesses believe the plane actually hit the ground at the base of the Pentagon first, and then skidded into the building." - CBS
 
"...it didn't appear to crash into the building; most of the energy was dissipated in hitting the ground, but I saw the nose break up, I saw the wings fly forward, and then the conflagration engulfed everything in flames...But I think the blessing here might have been that the airplane hit before it hit the building, it hit the ground, and a lot of energy might have gone that way. That's what it appeared like." - CNN

EDIT - IS this guy full of shit, or what??
 
"What -- or who -- caused Flight 77 to hit ground first, diffusing most of its destructive energy before it slammed into the Pentagon?" - ESPN / MSN
 
"According to one witness, 'what looked like a 747' plowed into the south side of the Pentagon, possibly skipping through a heliport before it hit the building."  - Stars and Stripes

[240 is Back]

"And the plane came through the first floor, right through Naval Ops..." - CNN
 
 
 
 
"As eyewitnesses described and photographs demonstrate, the hijacked airliner dived so low as it approached the Pentagon that it actually hit the ground first, thereby dissipating much of the energy that might otherwise have caused more extensive damage to the building." - Snopes.com
 
"The plane slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon. The impact was deafening. The fuselage hit the ground and blew up." - Delaware Online
 
"I watched in horror as the plane flew at treetop level, banked slightly to the left, drug it's wing along the ground and slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon exploding into a giant orange fireball." - James Madison Univ.
 
"Then he caught an edge of his wing on the ground. There is a helicopter pad right in front of the side of the Pentagon. The wing touched there, then the plane cart wheeled into the building." - Time
 
"It is also evident that the plane was on the ground before striking the Pentagon albeit skimming the grass. I might also point out that distant photos will miss details on the ground that up-close observation would show." - Christian Patriots/Pentagon Crash Analysis
 
Patrick Di Justo: "The plane hit the ground first, then slid into the building."  - Paul Boutin weblogger.com
 

[OzmO]

We were originally told that the pentagon lawn had been hit by a plane.   Just listen to what the reports of this horrible crash had to say...
 
"Some eyewitnesses believe the plane actually hit the ground at the base of the Pentagon first, and then skidded into the building." - CBS
 
"...it didn't appear to crash into the building; most of the energy was dissipated in hitting the ground, but I saw the nose break up, I saw the wings fly forward, and then the conflagration engulfed everything in flames...But I think the blessing here might have been that the airplane hit before it hit the building, it hit the ground, and a lot of energy might have gone that way. That's what it appeared like." - CNN

EDIT - IS this guy full of shit, or what??
 
"What -- or who -- caused Flight 77 to hit ground first, diffusing most of its destructive energy before it slammed into the Pentagon?" - ESPN / MSN
 
"According to one witness, 'what looked like a 747' plowed into the south side of the Pentagon, possibly skipping through a heliport before it hit the building."  - Stars and Stripes

[/quote

Inertia   Quite the concept.

Eye witnesses that SAW a plane hit the building......   another concept

[240 is Back]

Inertia   Quite the concept.

Explain what you mean.  I don't see a fucked up lawn.  Do you?

Eye witnesses that SAW a plane hit the building......   another concept

I'm showing you pictures of an unharmed lawn, which directly refute not only eyewitness statements, but officially issued govt statements about the plane hitting the lawn.  Do you believe the witness on CNN who said that the entire plane exploded on the lawn, or do you believe the pics taken from many reporters, right after the hit, which shows a perfectly green lawn?

[OzmO]

Inertia   Quite the concept.

Explain what you mean.  I don't see a fucked up lawn.  Do you?

Eye witnesses that SAW a plane hit the building......   another concept

I'm showing you pictures of an unharmed lawn, which directly refute not only eyewitness statements, but officially issued govt statements about the plane hitting the lawn.  Do you believe the witness on CNN who said that the entire plane exploded on the lawn, or do you believe the pics taken from many reporters, right after the hit, which shows a perfectly green lawn?

REad the full report A_joker provided. 

Then read the NIST report.

Then the official 9/11 report.

I see it hitting right at the foot of the building based on the video.

Inertia   Quite the concept.

Explain what you mean.  I don't see a fucked up lawn.  Do you?

Eye witnesses that SAW a plane hit the building......   another concept

I'm showing you pictures of an unharmed lawn, which directly refute not only eyewitness statements, but officially issued govt statements about the plane hitting the lawn.  Do you believe the witness on CNN who said that the entire plane exploded on the lawn, or do you believe the pics taken from many reporters, right after the hit, which shows a perfectly green lawn?

That's what one eye witness said.....did they ALL say that?  no. 

Point is they saw a plane  not  a missle.