Federal Pound-You-In-The-ASS Prison or Gitmo? Where would you rather be?

[Al-Gebra]

at gitmo,

you'll probably have a top lawyer from an E. Coast firm represent you b/c every large E. coast firm wants to be able to say it does pro bono work with Gitmo detainees.

if you don't get one of those cats, you'll get DoD lawyers.

Still far better than the public defender you'd get in the fed system: the one who had to take the bar exam four times before he passed.

at gitmo,

you might have to listen to anthony kiedis for a whole day straight, or be exposed to porn (tennis magazines, usually).

at f-p-y-i-t-a prison, the odds are pretty high that you'll be the victim of a violent rape.

so i say that if they want to get in the federal system, let them.

[Hedgehog]

The point is, that they have not been subject to trials yet.

They are still only locked up.

A Swedish citizen was locked up for a couple of years, then all of a sudden released.

What was that all about? Weren't they supposed to put him on trial or something?

Perhaps US federal prisons aren't a cakewalk. But does that mean that you could hold people without trial?

Where is the correlation?

YIP
Zack

[headhuntersix]

Gitmo......I'm not sure he was talking about rights or the reason why ur there..all things being equal gitmo...

[240 is Back]

imagine being one of those cats who was in the taliban.  you hear osama did some shit, but you're cool, cause you know the Taliban let the US know ahead of time, warning them.

okay, so now the US is pissed at yall.  Fair enough.  Let's turn over Osama.   Just fax us the evidence and we'll kill him for ya.  Oh, you guys don't have any?  Fine.  We will ship him to the UN instead, let's do one of those milosovich trials.  Wait, no thanks? oh, the us is here?  cool.  let's lead them to ... shit, they're firing on us.  I'm gonna surrender and explain everything.

5 years later... still at gitmo getting waterboarded... monster suckiness.

[headhuntersix]

Fortunately I'm on the other side ..and don't give a shit..

[Mr. Intenseone]

Oh you mean "Club Gitmo"?

That place is a freaking resort...they should feel lucky to be in such a place!

[Dos Equis]

at gitmo,

you'll probably have a top lawyer from an E. Coast firm represent you b/c every large E. coast firm wants to be able to say it does pro bono work with Gitmo detainees.

if you don't get one of those cats, you'll get DoD lawyers.

Still far better than the public defender you'd get in the fed system: the one who had to take the bar exam four times before he passed.

at gitmo,

you might have to listen to anthony kiedis for a whole day straight, or be exposed to porn (tennis magazines, usually).

at f-p-y-i-t-a prison, the odds are pretty high that you'll be the victim of a violent rape.

so i say that if they want to get in the federal system, let them.

True, except rape doesn't happen nearly as much in federal prison. 

[240 is Back]

Oh you mean "Club Gitmo"?
That place is a freaking resort...they should feel lucky to be in such a place!

I hear the water rides there are great!!

[Al-Gebra]

The point is, that they have not been subject to trials yet.

They are still only locked up.

A Swedish citizen was locked up for a couple of years, then all of a sudden released.

What was that all about? Weren't they supposed to put him on trial or something?

Perhaps US federal prisons aren't a cakewalk. But does that mean that you could hold people without trial?

Where is the correlation?

YIP
Zack

if he was captured in a "war" zone, he was subject to a military tribunal which ratified his confinement. if he was in Gitmo, he could use a DoD lawyer to appeal that to another military tribunal.

once the tribunal ratifies his confinement, they can hold him indefinitely.  Sweden could have demanded his release . . .

the UK takes all their citizens off our hands. we don't hand over people who are citizens of nations that are "high risk" like Yemen.

[Al-Gebra]

True, except rape doesn't happen nearly as much in federal prison. 

am i misunderstanding you, or are you implying that there have been rapes in Gitmo?

there have been none reported to the prisoner's lawyers.

[headhuntersix]

Ah..whats a little torture between friends.....these are our muslim brothers who we are helping secure their place with Allah

[Mr. Intenseone]

I hear the water rides there are great!!

I hear they get to pray 10 times per day, 2 hours per day of exercise outside, get to have McDonalds (Their favorite is Filet O Fish) Specially prepared Islamic meals and get this......they take the American Flag off of the water bottles so not to offend the prisoners, there's more, I just can't rememeber right now!

[240 is Back]

I hear they get to pray 10 times per day, 2 hours per day of exercise outside, get to have McDonalds (Their favorite is Filet O Fish) Specially prepared Islamic meals and get this......they take the American Flag off of the water bottles so not to offend the prisoners, there's more, I just can't rememeber right now!

The controlled environment and super high security make it a safe place.  And the religious artifacts and food is PR work to keep the human rights groups happy. 

I watch the news as much as you do.  The McD is actually bribes used for information, brought on base.  It's not like prisoners can buy mcD all day long.  It's a rare thing used as a treat for info.   

People in federal prisons are at most risks, but certainly have more privledges.  I don't think anyone at gitmo gets tv.  No conjugal visits.  No lawyers or appeals.  No govt sanctioned torture.

I mean, some of those guys get car batteries to the genitals.  Mr I, you're a religious man, right?  Can you seriously say that you would put the shock to balls if Jesus was in the room watching?   I know it's a silly Q, but it makes you think - at what point does our integrity, our morals, our ethics just fly out the window? 

I got a feeling that some of the crazy f*cks we caught in WWII were a lot tougher than a group of undisciplined hacks at gitmo.  If we didn't need torture then...

[Dos Equis]

am i misunderstanding you, or are you implying that there have been rapes in Gitmo?

there have been none reported to the prisoner's lawyers.

I was referring to this:  "at f-p-y-i-t-a prison, the odds are pretty high that you'll be the victim of a violent rape."

Rape is a huge problem in state prisons, but not nearly as bad in federal prisons. 

[24KT]

I know it's a silly Q, but it makes you think - at what point does our integrity, our morals, our ethics just fly out the window? 

{LOL} That ship done sailed a looooong time ago!

"The world is beginning to doubt the moral basis of our fight with terrorism" --Colin Powell 

I got a feeling that some of the crazy f*cks we caught in WWII were a lot tougher than a group of undisciplined hacks at gitmo.  If we didn't need torture then...

Different war, ...different time, ...different motives, ...different morals...

[Hedgehog]

if he was captured in a "war" zone, he was subject to a military tribunal which ratified his confinement. if he was in Gitmo, he could use a DoD lawyer to appeal that to another military tribunal.

once the tribunal ratifies his confinement, they can hold him indefinitely.  Sweden could have demanded his release . . .

the UK takes all their citizens off our hands. we don't hand over people who are citizens of nations that are "high risk" like Yemen.

He was captured in a war zone.

Held for two years. Sweden, among other countries, worked to get some charges on him presented.

One day he was sent back to Sweden.

No trial, no nothing.

YIP
Zack

[CQ]

Oh you mean "Club Gitmo"?

That place is a freaking resort...they should feel lucky to be in such a place!

Far from it.

I have no idea if they still do, they may have bowed to pressure from Amnesty and other human rights groups, but previosuly they were all held outside like full time in these things that looked like dog pens. This may not sound a big deal but we are talking about scorching heat here. And yeah - it is said they torture the crap out the people there.

Besides, why are many of these people held without charge? Why were they holding minors there? Why do they just hold people for years then just let them go?

Terrible place Gitmo. Violates human rights so much.

[Al-Gebra]

I was referring to this:  "at f-p-y-i-t-a prison, the odds are pretty high that you'll be the victim of a violent rape."

Rape is a huge problem in state prisons, but not nearly as bad in federal prisons. 

i agree--although the rate's too high for me in either place. and there's no line from "Office Space" that refers to state prisons  . . . 

that's where I got my title from.

[240 is Back]

Besides, why are many of these people held without charge? Why were they holding minors there? Why do they just hold people for years then just let them go?

For many of the guys, their charge is being in the Taliban.

The taliban tried to turn over OBL to the US.  They just wanted evidence of his involvement in 911.  Wedidn't have it.  So, they offered to turn him over to the US for a trial before the world.  We ignored this request and bombed em.

It's the belief of many that should these people get in front of a judge or a camera, their stories of years of abuse, and being held for being part of the Taliban which indeed warned us before 911 what Al Q was doing.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was some "accident" at Gitmo before the end of the Bush administration's time in office.  Something where "several of the inmates decided to start a fire and many of them died, despite the heroic efforts of our men!"  Would be a nice clean WACO-like solution to people with a story to tell.

[Al-Gebra]

Far from it.

I have no idea if they still do, they may have bowed to pressure from Amnesty and other human rights groups, but previosuly they were all held outside like full time in these things that looked like dog pens. This may not sound a big deal but we are talking about scorching heat here. And yeah - it is said they torture the crap out the people there.

Besides, why are many of these people held without charge? Why were they holding minors there? Why do they just hold people for years then just let them go?

Terrible place Gitmo. Violates human rights so much.

the rumors of torture are far worse than anything I've heard of that actually happened there, and I'm more informed on this matter than most. in fact, when some chinese prisoners were released, they elected to stay on in prison at gitmo b/c they didn't want to go home and be really tortured.  so they're still there b/c we don't have the heart to send them back.

and the prisoners take offense to strange things. one guy wanted his lawyer to tell the world that there was porn in their library--yes they have a library.  turns out it was a tennis magazine. people like to sensationalize stuff.

i'd say the harshest thing these people have to deal w is the "riot" squad, which really isn't too bad compared to what they could be dealing w.

they do get in front of judges--that's what the military tribunal is.

the charges they're being held under vary . . . most were captured in "war" zones, some turned in by their own people. we have many prisoners who were captured by afghani "bounty hunters."

the process of release is slow and inefficient and can be improved, undoubtedly.

[240 is Back]

some of the CIA guys there got personal insurance because they were worried about being charged for putting car batteries to genitals as ordered. 

No matter how nice 90% of them arguably have it, it even one guy there gets regular ball-shocking, we need to take a step back and reconsider things.  As murdereous as the terrorists were, they kill quickly.  Mutilating genitals for years on end - that goes beyond terror.

[Al-Gebra]

some of the CIA guys there got personal insurance because they were worried about being charged for putting car batteries to genitals as ordered. 

No matter how nice 90% of them arguably have it, it even one guy there gets regular ball-shocking, we need to take a step back and reconsider things.  As murdereous as the terrorists were, they kill quickly.  Mutilating genitals for years on end - that goes beyond terror.

whatever, dude . . .

[Dos Equis]

some of the CIA guys there got personal insurance because they were worried about being charged for putting car batteries to genitals as ordered. 

Dang dude.  More bizarre stuff. 

[240 is Back]

Dang dude.  More bizarre stuff. 

I know. This is why Bush suddenly pushed for that terror torture bill last week.  *Supposedly*, journalists caught wind of the insurance and we were about to have another Abu Ghirab scandal down there. Imagine the world reaction to the sick stuff like that.  So, bush got in the Rose Garden, and got in front of it. 

Congress initially said hell no, but Bush went to every office in the place in the last two weeks, and whatever he said, worked.  They're going to pass it.  All the repubs but 1 or 2 are now behind it. 

[Dos Equis]

I know. This is why Bush suddenly pushed for that terror torture bill last week.  *Supposedly*, journalists caught wind of the insurance and we were about to have another Abu Ghirab scandal down there. Imagine the world reaction to the sick stuff like that.  So, bush got in the Rose Garden, and got in front of it. 

Congress initially said hell no, but Bush went to every office in the place in the last two weeks, and whatever he said, worked.  They're going to pass it.  All the repubs but 1 or 2 are now behind it. 

Come on 240.  CIA agents bought liability insurance to protect themselves from potential suits involving torture?  There are at least two major flaws with this:  (1) liability insurance does not cover intentional misconduct (like torture) and (2) there is no way people are going to broadcast that they have a nonexistent insurance policy.  What's your source?