Author Topic: i wont sink to Eldons level...but i can change tactics...most muslim crimes ..  (Read 12256 times)

haider

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You're unable to accept reality brother. Anything critical of islam is either a falacy, mis-quoted, mis-translated etc etc.
Better still, but cut the crap. We can convince each other of how stupid and biased we are all day but that wont get us anywhere- assuming you're not here just to push your agenda.

The answer to all of the questions above is a simple No. As for your first question, it was discussed in good detail by Johnny("Tyrone Power" in that thread) in the Learning Islam thread and I admitted myself that I couldn't come up with a better answer.
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haider

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I'm unable to accept reality brother. Anything critical of islam is never a falacy, neither is it mis-quoted, nor mis-translated.
A simple switching of words would be my retort to that  ;D
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Nordic Superman

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Better still, but cut the crap. We can convince each other of how stupid and biased we are all day but that wont get us anywhere- assuming you're not here just to push your agenda.

The answer to all of the questions above is a simple No. As for your first question, it was discussed in good detail by Johnny("Tyrone Power" in that thread) in the Learning Islam thread and I admitted myself that I couldn't come up with a better answer.

Maybe one day you will wake up from your blind faith, preferably prior to planeting the satanic seed of islam in your childrens heads?

Muhammad had sex with a 9 year old girl. A 9 year old girl. Child molestation, simple fact. Evidence, koran and hadiths.

Muhammad murdered (stole, and was accountable for: rapes etc): hadiths

Islam contains some pagan roots:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/pagansources.htm
http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-moon-god.htm

Also note, the criminal act of rape is still hardly penalised in islamic countries. In most cases the rape VICTIM comes off worse [usually death by stoning/hanging].
الاسلام هو شيطانية

haider

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Complete nonsense, and yet again you're unable to refrain from making assanine remarks. Absolute 100% BS, especially the laughable moon god myth- atleast with the other accusations they twist facts to their own liking- but the moon God BS is just wayyyy out there. Utter nonsese.
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haider

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Oh brother, please tell me you're not referncing material from clearly pro-christian and anti-islamic websites?  ::) What bothers me more is that you're posting links in the first place, and that you're posting links from CHRISTIAN websites. How you selecetively take material from that site and agree with it [blindly] is questionable to say the least  ::)
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Nordic Superman

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Ok, muhammad didn't molest a 9 year old girl did he? Explain this, with evidence.

And he also didn't murder, order the murder of jews right? Explain this, with evidence.

Are you saying http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/pagansources.htm is 100% false? Evidence?
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haider

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Oh brother, that Silas guy really is a genius isn't he- claiming the Kaba to be a proof of paganism in Islam? Though that in itself is completely assasine, what is also amusing to me is that a christian guy is arguing for paganistic customs in Islam, hahahahahah. Perhaps he doesn't realise that the birth date of of Jesus(pbuh) that falls on his calendar has no basis in reality, except that Dec 25 has significance in pagan religions.

Just by linking the website, once again you have proved true about yourself what you claim about me (blind belief). Just because a link exists arguing something, doesn't mean it is true. I don't think you'd have a problem understanding that as it is simple logic, though I'm not sure the extent to which hatred is fueling your "arguments"(which in any case can delude a person).

Please refer back to Johnny's post regarding Aisha. If not I will post it for you again, as it is a pretty good explanation.

Ofcourse I dont think Muhammed(pbuh) killed anyone. He brought sanity back to arabia. It would go completely against his character.
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Nordic Superman

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Oh brother, that Silas guy really is a genius isn't he- claiming the Kaba to be a proof of paganism in Islam? Though that in itself is completely assasine, what is also amusing to me is that a christian guy is arguing for paganistic customs in Islam, hahahahahah. Perhaps he doesn't realise that the birth date of of Jesus(pbuh) that falls on his calendar has no basis in reality, except that Dec 25 has significance in pagan religions.

Just by linking the website, once again you have proved true about yourself what you claim about me (blind belief). Just because a link exists arguing something, doesn't mean it is true. I don't think you'd have a problem understanding that as it is simple logic, though I'm not sure the extent to which hatred is fueling your "arguments"(which in any case can delude a person).

Please refer back to Johnny's post regarding Aisha. If not I will post it for you again, as it is a pretty good explanation.

Ofcourse I dont think Muhammed(pbuh) killed anyone. He brought sanity back to arabia. It would go completely against his character.

His character of jew murderer and child molester?

Is the hadith lying when Aisha narrates she was 9 years old when they consumated the marriage?

If so, ALL of the content in the hadiths are fiction, correct? You can't pick and chose what is fact and what is fiction.

What about praising a man for murdering his pregnant wife because she cursed muhammad?

He was a military general, it was completely within his character.
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haider

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Let me say this: No offense, but you know jackshyt about the Prophets character.

The ahadith dont contain lies, but they do contain wrong information as they are merely narrations, hence erroneous ahadith are inevitable. This is why ahadith are a secondary source, the primary being the Holy Qur'an ofcourse. The way you choose what is fact and fiction is the same way one would go about doing that for any historical events. Just because a history book may contain one wrong fact doesn't mean that all of it is false, and it isnt necessarily the case that lies were printed or an agenda was pushed.
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Nordic Superman

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Let me say this: No offense, but you know jackshyt about the Prophets character.

The ahadith dont contain lies, but they do contain wrong information as they are merely narrations, hence erroneous ahadith are inevitable. This is why ahadith are a secondary source, the primary being the Holy Qur'an ofcourse. The way you choose what is fact and fiction is the same way one would go about doing that for any historical events. Just because a history book may contain one wrong fact doesn't mean that all of it is false, and it isnt necessarily the case that lies were printed or an agenda was pushed.

You're right... i know jackshit about it... ::)

He was a good man, had no interest in millitancy, didn't sleep with a 9 year old girl, didn't allow the slaughtering of jews, didn't threaten and terrorise states... ::)

BLIND FAITH!
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haider

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You're right... i know jackshit about it... ::)
Good, acnknowledging this is the first step towards gaining real knowledge. Hateful preconceptions ruin the mind.

Quote
He was a good man, had no interest in millitancy, didn't sleep with a 9 year old girl, didn't allow the slaughtering of jews, didn't threaten and terrorise states... ::)

BLIND FAITH!
And you know these things for a fact? How? Because you found them on a website?

Seems to me that you cant quite grasp the idea of "iinocent until proven guilty"... You're assuming Muhammed(pbuh) was an evil man and you expect me to refute that starting from scratch. Just because you find some website that confirm your preconceived ideas doesn't mean that it is actual evidence. Seems that anything negative u come across about Islam you accept as fact, as evidenced in thsi thread(for example the ridiculous "moon god" myth and Islam's alleged pagan roots). Errrr, what do they call that..ummm.. blind faith?

And how many times do I have to remind you that the "blind faith", or "biased" argument DOESN'T work in a real debate? You either make a point or you don't. Nothing will defeat logic and truth. Bitterness only shows weakness in argument. Really, cut out the bitterness, WTF are u making this personal?
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Nordic Superman

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Good, acnknowledging this is the first step towards gaining real knowledge. Hateful preconceptions ruin the mind.
And you know these things for a fact? How? Because you found them on a website?

Seems to me that you cant quite grasp the idea of "iinocent until proven guilty"... You're assuming Muhammed(pbuh) was an evil man and you expect me to refute that starting from scratch. Just because you find some website that confirm your preconceived ideas doesn't mean that it is actual evidence. Seems that anything negative u come across about Islam you accept as fact, as evidenced in thsi thread(for example the ridiculous "moon god" myth and Islam's alleged pagan roots). Errrr, what do they call that..ummm.. blind faith?

And how many times do I have to remind you that the "blind faith", or "biased" argument DOESN'T work in a real debate? You either make a point or you don't. Nothing will defeat logic and truth. Bitterness only shows weakness in argument. Really, cut out the bitterness, WTF are u making this personal?

The evidence is in the koran, the hadiths and history.

I'm calling "blind faith", because you are using blind faith as your defence.

Ishaq: 676 “‘You obey a stranger who encourages you to murder for booty. You are greedy men. Is there no honor among you?’ Upon hearing those lines Muhammad said, ‘Will no one rid me of this woman?’ Umayr, a zealous Muslim, decided to execute the Prophet’s wishes. That very night he crept into the writer’s home while she lay sleeping surrounded by her young children. There was one at her breast. Umayr removed the suckling babe and then plunged his sword into the poet. The next morning in the mosque, Muhammad, who was aware of the assassination, said, ‘You have helped Allah and His Apostle.’ Umayr said. ‘She had five sons; should I feel guilty?’ ‘No,’ the Prophet answered. ‘Killing her was as meaningless as two goats butting heads.’”

Ishaq:550 “Among those who Muhammad ordered killed was Abdallah bin Khatal. The Messenger ordered him to be slain because while he was a Muslim, Muhammad had sent him to collect the zakat tax with an Ansar and a slave of his.... His girls used to sing a satire about Muhammad so the Prophet ordered that they should be killed along with Abdullah. He was killed by Sa’id and Abu Barzah. The two shared in his blood. One of the singing girls was killed quickly but the other fled. So Umar caused his horse to trample the one who fled, killing her.”

Ishaq:368 “Ka’b’s body was left prostrate [humbled in submission]. After his fall, all of the Nadir Jews were brought low. Sword in hand we cut him down. By Muhammad’s order we were sent secretly by night. Brother killing brother. We lured him to his death with guile [cunning or deviousness]. Travelling by night, bold as lions, we went into his home. We made him taste death with our deadly swords. We sought victory for the religion of the Prophet.”

Tabari VII:97/Ishaq:368 “We carried Ka’b’s head and brought it to Muhammad during the night. We saluted him as he stood praying and told him that we had slain Allah’s enemy. When he came out to us we cast Ashraf’s head before his feet. The Prophet praised Allah that the poet had been assassinated and complimented us on the good work we had done in Allah’s Cause. Our attack upon Allah’s enemy cast terror among the Jews, and there was no Jew in Medina who did not fear for his life.’”

Tabari VII:97 “The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, ‘Kill any Jew who falls under your power.’”
Ishaq:369 “Thereupon Mas’ud leapt upon Sunayna, one of the Jewish merchants with whom his family had social and commercial relations and killed him. The Muslim’s brother complained, saying, ‘Why did you kill him? You have much fat in you belly from his charity.’ Mas’ud answered, ‘By Allah, had Muhammad ordered me to murder you, my brother, I would have cut off your head.’ Wherein the brother said, ‘Any religion that can bring you to this is indeed wonderful!’ And he accepted Islam.”

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Allah’s Apostle said, ‘I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: “None has ‎the right to be worshipped but Allah.” Whoever says this will save his property and ‎his life from me.’”‎
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/084.sbt.html

Referring to Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) Allah, Most High, ‎says, [And you (stand) on an exalted standard of character] (Al-Qalam 68:4) ‎http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/068.qmt.html
‎; [Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one ‎whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the praise of Allah] ‎‎(Al-Ahzab 33:21).‎
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/033.qmt.html
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drkaje

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We, as Americans, can never see any point or view that disagrees with our as having any validity. That makes us pretty ignorant. The irony is that we're very proud of being culturally ignorant and feel every other place in the world (old or new) should conform and be like the greatest place in the world, America. :)

I do find it amusing that people somehow seem to feel abusing an anonymous (insert race/religion) will make them feel better about 911, being picked on by someone, Jehova's Witnesses interrupting Sunday football games, etc...

Nordic Superman

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We, as Americans, can never see any point or view that disagrees with our as having any validity. That makes us pretty ignorant. The irony is that we're very proud of being culturally ignorant and feel every other place in the world (old or new) should conform and be like the greatest place in the world, America. :)

I do find it amusing that people somehow seem to feel abusing an anonymous (insert race/religion) will make them feel better about 911, being picked on by someone, Jehova's Witnesses interrupting Sunday football games, etc...

Ignorant americans indeed...

I am not american and you're justifying your appeasement and labelling every american in one foul swoop, well done!

Islam played no part in 911 right brother? None at all? It wasn't even used a tool to motivate the hijackers right?
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haider

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I've been very busy with school but I am currently looking for the stuff you just posted- though this is stuff you know nothing abt, and is merely a copy paste to make your "argument". Nevertheless, out of personal curiosity I AM trying to look through some of these. Most importantly, I'm trying to look for the source, which is a little hard to do with the given facilities.

However, you did post up the link to the USC-MSA website so I am currently checking that out. The first thing I noticed is (whether it twists the meaning of the passage or not) that the hadith wasn't quoted in its full context, as opposed to the other ones posted above  ???

Also funny how you completely ignored the hadith right below the seemingly violent one. Let me quote:

Narrated Anas bin Malik:

A Jew passed by Allah's Apostle and said, "As-Samu 'Alaika." Allah's Apostle said in reply, "We 'Alaika." Allah's Apostle then said to his companions, "Do you know what he (the Jew) has said? He said, 'As-Samu 'Alaika.'" They said, "O Allah's Apostle! Shall we kill him?" The Prophet, said, "No. When the people of the Book greet you, say: 'Wa 'Alaikum.'"


But ofcourse, I doubt you even checked that link before posting it. Just something to think about.
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Nordic Superman

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Wow, pretty weak come back!

Did you think that one quote saying how jews should be greated somehow removes any weight from my previous quotes?
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drkaje

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Ignorant americans indeed...

I am not american and you're justifying your appeasement and labelling every american in one foul swoop, well done!

Islam played no part in 911 right brother? None at all? It wasn't even used a tool to motivate the hijackers right?

It was obviously a pretty general statement but instead of responding you changed the topic. A lot of things played part in 911, radical Islam was one. That being said, most of them were Saudis (Wahabbi, sp). Americans (in general  :)) tend to be culturally insensitive and have short memories. The first people who attempted to blow up the WTC were trained by us (CIA) in Afghanistan to fight the Russians. After their usefulness was exhausted, we forgot about the whole country and let it go more tribal. We (the American govornment) were in negotiations with the Taliban for an oil pipeline right up until the first plane hit.

This problem won't be solved by killing alone. Eventually all sides will have to make policy changes.

Nordic Superman

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It was obviously a pretty general statement but instead of responding you changed the topic. A lot of things played part in 911, radical Islam was one. That being said, most of them were Saudis (Wahabbi, sp). Americans (in general  :)) tend to be culturally insensitive and have short memories. The first people who attempted to blow up the WTC were trained by us (CIA) in Afghanistan to fight the Russians. After their usefulness was exhausted, we forgot about the whole country and let it go more tribal. We (the American govornment) were in negotiations with the Taliban for an oil pipeline right up until the first plane hit.

This problem won't be solved by killing alone. Eventually all sides will have to make policy changes.

You're such a liberal apologist that your comments burn my eyes! :o

You libbys like to over simplify things don't yah? ::)

Good luck with the appeasing attitude brother, be sure to tell us how far it gets you 10 years from now!
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ToxicAvenger

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It was obviously a pretty general statement but instead of responding you changed the topic. A lot of things played part in 911, radical Islam was one. That being said, most of them were Saudis (Wahabbi, sp). Americans (in general  :)) tend to be culturally insensitive and have short memories. The first people who attempted to blow up the WTC were trained by us (CIA) in Afghanistan to fight the Russians. After their usefulness was exhausted, we forgot about the whole country and let it go more tribal. We (the American govornment) were in negotiations with the Taliban for an oil pipeline right up until the first plane hit.

This problem won't be solved by killing alone. Eventually all sides will have to make policy changes.


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drkaje

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You're such a liberal apologist that your comments burn my eyes! :o

You libbys like to over simplify things don't yah? ::)

Good luck with the appeasing attitude brother, be sure to tell us how far it gets you 10 years from now!

LOL! I'm a registered Republican but smart enough to know when we've messed up. Besides, you're unwilling (or unable) to respond intelligently to my post so you have to call names.

It won't take ten years for almost everyone except right wingers to realize we're screwed. We'll never be out of that region, it's worse than Korea, Japan and Germany combined. Why? Because we're attacking a people, way of life, religion and 1/5 (less 655,000 killed in Iraq). In those other instances at least we were fighting a country.

In the same vein, we're lucky (for lack of a better word) that most of the fundamentalists muslims aren't white.

Camel Jockey

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Ignorant americans indeed...

I am not american and you're justifying your appeasement and labelling every american in one foul swoop, well done!

Islam played no part in 911 right brother? None at all? It wasn't even used a tool to motivate the hijackers right?

Of course it did. You can't comprehend the notion that you don't hold one person accountable for the actions of someone else.

haider

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Wow, pretty weak come back!

Did you think that one quote saying how jews should be greated somehow removes any weight from my previous quotes?
Oh brother  ::)

A comeback is when you reply to an argument that holds any sort of value. And what exactly was your argument? Copy pasting a bunch of stuff from a website without even understanding what it's about? Now THAT is weak. If that's called an argument, I could just post a 100 different articles for u to come up with a comeback to.
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Nordic Superman

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Oh brother  ::)

A comeback is when you reply to an argument that holds any sort of value. And what exactly was your argument? Copy pasting a bunch of stuff from a website without even understanding what it's about? Now THAT is weak. If that's called an argument, I could just post a 100 different articles for u to come up with a comeback to.

I have an understanding of this trashy religion of yours, that's how i'm able to consistently own you.

Post away!
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haider

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I have an understanding of this trashy religion of yours, that's how i'm able to consistently own you.

Post away!
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haider

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oh, why don't u explain how anyone (except yourself) got owned?
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